Wrong to be nude in your back garden ?

growler

Saw this story on BBC today where a woman in Wales was (a) taken to court and (b) cleared of indecent exposure for sunbathing nude in her own backgarden.

A neighbour filmed her and then reported her to the police.

" Prosecutor Maggie Hughes said sunbathing nude "could be grossly offensive to normal decent persons in society"." WTF? ... the naturist stripping off at the pool in Tralee I can see as being grossly offensive , but in the privacy of your backgarden , no.

What a strange world we live in, I cannot fathom how (a) the Prosecution service feel they could waste tax payers money charging this woman (b) the voyeur neighbour wasn't arrested for being a pervert and (c) that people can be so bloody prudish.

Hagar

AKAIK a man would be found guilty of indecent exposure under the same circumstances.
There's some quirk in the law about male genitals being more visible than female genitals.

Karoma

"The district nurse said she found the prosecution "prudish"."

homah_7ft

In fairness the neighbour doesn't have to look into the next garden. They decided to be offended in my opinion.

Karoma

homah_7ft wrote:

In fairness the neighbour doesn't have to look into the next garden. They decided to be offended in my opinion.

Precisely. Not only that, but to film it...?
/walks off confused

homah_7ft

I suppose a good excuse if his wife found the tape would be to claim it was, "For evidence".

RuggieBear

he should be done for invasion of privacy.

he was so shocked and offended that he filmed her...!!!?

FX Meister

Can the neighbour not sue for the other neighbour fliming her being naked?

Karoma

homah_7ft wrote:

I suppose a good excuse if his wife found the tape would be to claim it was, "For evidence".

That's probably how all of this came about...

GuanYin

Well from the picture it looks like excessive sunbathing took its toll on her skin!!

I don't see the big deal. I lived beside an exotic dancer when I was younger and she regularly sunbathed topless in her garden.

Didn't bother me in the slightest!!!

homah_7ft

You could sue for carpal tunnel syndrome

growler

RuggieBear wrote:

he should be done for invasion of privacy.

he was so shocked and offended that he filmed her...!!!?

no doubt so he could be shocked and offended repeatedly in the privacy of his own living room

Cumulative shockings having more legal weight presumably.

bonkey

growler wrote:

but in the privacy of your backgarden

I think I'd need to see just how private her back garden was before I'd agree that this statement is applicable.

Simply being private property is not, I would imagine, enough....or do you think that there'd be no problem with whatever you did in the privacy of your driveway, or perhaps on the privacy of your rooftop?

jc

homah_7ft

bonkey wrote:

I think I'd need to see just how private her back garden was before I'd agree that this statement is applicable.

You just want to see the film

Dave!

If I recorded some chick getting changed, and got caught for it, would I get away with no penalty?

Just curious

Nah I'm appalled that he was able to record them sunbathing and didn't get in trouble for it.

homah_7ft

Deviant- a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior. Wouldn't you say the male neighbour was in fact the deviant since most males would be more than happy with the situation.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I'd do it purposefully to annoy the neighbours...

DOLEMAN

I wonder would he be so upset if she was a hot Swedish student...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

just read the story and noticed the bit about people with children being worried....

If your kids see someone naked, do we think it's particualrly disturbing for them? Are they going to turn into perverted little maniacs when they grow up? And how do you stop them seeing naked people at places like swimming pool changing rooms?

DOLEMAN

Ikky Poo2: exactly.

I bet these people have no problem letting their kids watch violent movies and eat junk food...

FFS why are people so disturbed when it comes to our most natural state?

snickerpuss

I did think it was a bit odd to bring her to court and don't think she should have been charged but i'm not sure i'd really want to see some naked oul wan out my window everytime i looked out.
Anyhow don't know why that woman thinks it'll warp her children though. Main thing i was wondering was how she managed to sunbathe nude so often in Wales, surely it'd be freezing.

walshb

55 years old. My god I'd say that was a sight. Whoever filmed that must have a strong bloody stomach!!!

Sleepy

I'm amazed there wasn't a counter-suit for invasion of privacy. Surely video-taping your neighbour while they're sunbathing (naked or not) is illegal?

normar

walshb wrote:

55 years old. My god I'd say that was a sight. Whoever filmed that must have a strong bloody stomach!!!

What an ignorant and abusive thing to say about anyone. You should be ashamed of yourself for that unwarranted attack on another person. Just who do you think you are? Withdraw it now.

Mick and Noreen

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Withdraw it now.

I'm curious, just who do you think you are ?

rsynnott

Actually, they might do worse here. I seem to remember there's a quirk in the new public indecency (or whatever it may be called) law in the UK where you're allowed do just about anything in nominally non-private places where there's a "reasonable expectation" of not being seen (public toilets are specifically excluded, incidentally).

Shellie13

DOLEMAN wrote:

I wonder would he be so upset if she was a hot Swedish student...

lol!
so true...
sure he still wuda filmed for a diff purpose no doubt!

CathyMoran

I would have thought that your own back garden is your own space and it is nobodys business if you are nude there, now it might be different if you were on a low balcony but otherwise...next they will be saying that you can not be naked in your own room or that you can only be naked in a room with no windows.

RuggieBear

Mordeth wrote:

I'm curious, just who do you think you are ?

They'd be naturists

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but is that who they are?

normar

Mordeth wrote:

I'm curious, just who do you think you are ?

We are Mick and Noreen and we are naturists.

But the real point is that we are also people who find it offensive when any person is automatically degraded and scorned in this way simply because they are older.

Lets look at what was said:

Originally Posted by walshb
55 years old. My god I'd say that was a sight. Whoever filmed that must have a strong bloody stomach!!!

Walshb has no idea who this 55 year old person is, or what they look like. He does not have the right in our opinion to offend or debase her in this disgraceful manner. It is an attack on older people simply because they are older. It is ageist and sexist, and we repeat the request for him to withdraw this ugly comment.

Moderators should be doing their job. We thought abusive comments against elderly people (indeed any group of people) should be forbidden.
We believe in tolerance and acceptance of others, and we are against prejudice in all its ugly forms.

But what do you think Mordeth? Do you think it's right that older people at random should be considered sickening to see simply because they are in the nude?

M+N

RuggieBear

have you reported the post?

normar

RuggieBear wrote:

have you reported the post?

We wanted him to see that the comments on older people were ignorant and wrong, and that he/she might consider withdrawing it themselves.

But moderators should be doing their work too. Later perhaps.

M+N

Dades

normar wrote:

It is an attack on older people simply because they are older. It is ageist and sexist, and we repeat the request for him to withdraw this ugly comment.

I agree the comment was naive and ill-considered.
Can't see why you'd call it sexist though.

RuggieBear

normar wrote:

But moderators should be doing their work too.

Mods don't read every post of every thread.....you could help them do thier job if you just reported the post.

normar

The Atheist wrote:

I agree the comment was naive and ill-considered.
Can't see why you'd call it sexist though.

We considered is sexist because it was a woman who was nude in her own garden.
But we take your point. Sexist is the least of the problem. This comment is more than naive and ill-considered.

It is a dangerous and ugly pice of writing. Lets stop this abuse now.

M+N

normar

RuggieBear wrote:

Mods don't read every post of every thread.....you could help them do thier job if you just reported the post.

Mordeth is a moderator !!!


And it is us who he chastens for defending older naturists, against abuse!!!!!

Dades

For the record I occasionally like to be at one with the elements at home.
Lucky there's a spot in the garden that doesn't get overlooked.

RuggieBear

normar wrote:

Mordeth is a moderator !!!


And it is us who he chastens for defending older naturists, against abuse!!!!!

But not of this forum (Humanities). He is just another regular user on this board

growler

normar wrote:

What an ignorant and abusive thing to say about anyone. You should be ashamed of yourself for that unwarranted attack on another person. Just who do you think you are? Withdraw it now.

you've heard of the concept of humour before ? I'm sure the comment was firmly tongue in cheek and did not express the posters ingrained hatred for all things aged, female and nude.

For someone who so vocally advocates personal liberties I'm surprised you want to censor anything never mind such a throwaway comment. Get over it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

normar wrote:

But what do you think Mordeth? Do you think it's right that older people at random should be considered sickening to see simply because they are in the nude?

M+N

yeah, if whoever is making the joke finds it amusing. It's not very nice and maybe you find it offensive, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who find naturism offensive too. So we just gotta live and let live.

just on the subject of 50+ women, I've seen plenty I'd like to see naked.Maybe you can accept this as some sort of peace offering.

normar

growler wrote:

you've heard of the concept of humour before ? I'm sure the comment was firmly tongue in cheek and did not express the posters ingrained hatred for all things aged, female and nude.

Prejudice and it's ugly spawn bigotry takes many forms. Adopting the form of humour unfortunately gives it an air of respectability, and acceptance. But it still remains to us an abusive and insulting attack on the older members of society. Being 55 years of age does not and never will equate with being ugly. To suggest so will never be funny.

Why do you feel the need to defend this?
If it was supposed to be a " funny tongue in cheek " then let walshb say so.

Fair enough growler, you see it as humour. We see it as giving unecessary offence.

M+N

Stark

normar wrote:

Being 55 years of age does not and never will equate with being ugly. To suggest so will never be funny.

What about 60 years of age?

To be honest, I thought the comment was quite offensive myself and you're perfectly entitled to point out the offence but I don't think you should be barging in giving orders to all and sundry.

Wibbs

normar wrote:

What an ignorant and abusive thing to say about anyone. You should be ashamed of yourself for that unwarranted attack on another person. Just who do you think you are? Withdraw it now.

Mick and Noreen

Ignorant perhaps, abusive and or sexist hardly, tongue in cheek probably. I would suggest the chill pill route. People are judged by among other things, their appearance, whether clothed or naked. Fact of life. You likely "judge" people on their attitudes to your lifestyle and you are allowed, nay encouraged to(certainly I would subscribe to that opinion). If he had shouted it at said woman, I would have serious issues and admonish him/her accordingly. He is however allowed to think it and should be allowed to express same on an internet forum. Especially if tongue in cheek. "Thought" crime is not accepted as such yet and long may that continue. BTW comparing it to any other "ism" is not really an argument.

But it still remains to us an abusive and insulting attack on the older members of society.

Jeez, it's hardly a crime of such magnitude.

Being 55 years of age does not and never will equate with being ugly

No it doesn't and shouldn't. "Ugly" and "beauty" take many forms, not just physical.

normar

Anyway,
We have to accept we suppose that we may be in a minority position on prejudice dressed as humour. Not nice but we did our best, without much support.


But back to the issue in question.

Of course it's not wrong to be nude in your own back garden. Its just illegal. Same goes for being nude inside your own house. If you can be seen by the passing public then you can be prosecuted for indecent exposure.

Irish law does not require that a sexual or threathening element be intended. Just to be seen by the public simply relaxing nude inside your living room could, if someone complains cause you to be prosecuted, and if found guilty could cause you to be placed on the sexual offenders register.
Same goes for an isolated stretch of beach or secluded forest clearing or river bank. Once someone complains you've just about had it.

It's just another thing we have to accept even though it's clearly unfair as it stands.. Still we try to have this unjust exposure law changed too.
Any helpers out there?

M+N

growler

normar wrote:

Anyway,
We have to accept we suppose that we may be in a minority position on prejudice dressed as humour. Not nice but we did our best, without much support.


But back to the issue in question.

Of course it's not wrong to be nude in your own back garden. Its just illegal. Same goes for being nude inside your own house. If you can be seen by the passing public then you can be prosecuted for indecent exposure.

Irish law does not require that a sexual or threathening element be intended. Just to be seen by the public simply relaxing nude inside your living room could, if someone complains cause you to be prosecuted, and if found guilty could cause you to be placed on the sexual offenders register.
Same goes for an isolated stretch of beach or secluded forest clearing or river bank. Once someone complains you've just about had it.

It's just another thing we have to accept even though it's clearly unfair as it stands.. Still we try to have this unjust exposure law changed too.
Any helpers out there?

M+N

I thoroughly agree with you, the utter daftness of the woman in question being prosecuted was the original reason for me starting this thread, personally I'm all in favour of sensible people doing whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes or , as you suggest in areas where no offence is likely to be taken, something i'm likely to indulge in myself. That said, you're bound to come up against such puerile attitudes as walshb expressed, I'm more than happy to dismiss his comment as infantile nonsense and not get my knickers ( or lack thereof) in a twist over it, by getting on you high horse and making demands , (withdraw it now) you're being unnecessarily confrontational. Most intelligent people here would immediately dismiss his comments as tripe, by reacting as you did you simply gave him more "airtime". Calm down, make a considered response and stop making demands.

r3nu4l

growler wrote:

...and not get my knickers ( or lack thereof) in a twist over it...

Brilliant

Yep, strange how people get offended by such things as nudity. I'm not a naturist (too bloody cold most of the time if you ask me!) but I have no problem with naturists and couldn't care less if my neighbours sunbathed naked.

I'm asking my next question seriously normar so relax the hackles there chappie! If you were a father of a really hot daughter, 18+ we'll say and you were all out sunbathing or having a BBQ, naked in the garden, would you be offended by a neighbour peeking over the fence and checking her out?

I can imagine it would annoy me a lot but if I raised my daughter to see no shame in being naked and be proud of her body would I be right to tell the guy to F*ck off?

Stark

I think most fathers would be extremely unhappy with a neighbour filming their daughter in her back garden, clothed or unclothed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

r3nu4l wrote:

Brilliant

I'm asking my next question seriously normar so relax the hackles there chappie! If you were a father of a really hot daughter, 18+ we'll say and you were all out sunbathing or having a BBQ, naked in the garden, would you be offended by a neighbour peeking over the fence and checking her out?

He wouldn't be 'checking her out' he'd be 'gathering evidence'.

r3nu4l

Read the post again guys. Not filming or photographing but taking a good look!

So just wandering over to the fence/wall, sitting up and having a good perv (but not touching himself).

This would not be against the law, but would be creepy! Personally, I would want to give the guy a close-up view of my boot but again the law could not stop the guy from looking if he chose to.

To expand on my question, would it annoy normar and would it stop them sunbathing naked outdoors (which they probably don't).

I firmly believe people should be llowed to sunbathe naked in their gardens but it would make me uncomfortable if I thought my child was getting checked out by the local perv.

It would be worse too if the kid was underage.

Samos

Why is it wrong/illegal to be unclothed in any context or location? I could be just as easily offended by anything else in this world: the colour of a person's hair, or their opinion of the weather, etc. But something so absurd would not even be considered seriously, never mind enshrined in law. So, why are certain body parts considered harmful, and must be hidden under duress of punishment? My mind boggles as to how any nation that promotes freedom and sensible jurisdiction can fathom to accept such nonsensical policies!