does anyone believe creationists when...

HealingBlight

Scofflaw wrote:

Yup. Also CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK will destroy your sense of reality by not only doing all the above, but misunderstanding things so badly that normal people can only look on in shock and awe. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or sense. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are deaf.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Remember, the bigger the font, the righter you are, ITS CLEARLY FACT.

http://www.freethoughtmedia.com/evolution101.ftm
I wonder how well your average joe-biblehugger can completely debunk each one of those podcasts that explains and provides evidences for evolution.
Even though I havent really gotten into the whole thing yet, it was nice to listen to. I would say that it could turn a creationists brain into mush, but then again, it allready is, at least in this respect.
And I was told: http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html was a useful link.

coffee_cake

Talkorigins is a great site, yeah


I'm afraid I too resorted to some caps, I'm losing my patience with this evolution is taking over astrophysics crap...

Dades

HealingBlight wrote:

This is a prediction, but if I were to go to that creationist thread, will I see a lot of bible quotes, old quotes taken out of context, quotes from evolutionists used against evolution, general things disproving evolution, strawmen, watchmaker arguments and various unscientific 'evidences' masquerading as science?

Not to mention that giant leap of logic:

Something intelligent created the world;
Therefore it was obviously OUR GOD because it says so in an old book.

coffee_cake

The Atheist wrote:

Not to mention that giant leap of logic:

Something intelligent created the world;
Therefore it was obviously OUR GOD because it says so in an old book.

Heh hence my old sig:
"Who stole the cookies from the cookies jar?
I DON'T KNOW SO IT MUST BE GOD"

growler

bluewolf wrote:

Heh hence my old sig:
"Who stole the cookies from the cookies jar?
I DON'T KNOW SO IT MUST BE GOD"

nonsense I have it on good authority it was the fairies.

HealingBlight

The Atheist wrote:

Not to mention that giant leap of logic:

Something intelligent created the world;
Therefore it was obviously OUR GOD because it says so in an old book.

I always loved the idea that 'the creator' is somehow automatically god, or something really powerful is automatically god, and when you think and think about it, the only thing that really makes a god is the worshiper. That’s how I manage to be a strong atheist without any scientific fact, purely because the unworkability of the definition, its just a friggen title, like king. Kings exist to some people, but I don’t have a king, and I see the other kings as they are, a man with power proportionate to the amount of supporters he has.
Although that was -completely- off topic for a creationist thread.

growler wrote:

nonsense I have it on good authority it was the fairies.

FSM you heathen basterd.

Tar.Aldarion

I am thinking to converting to FSM after that last comment.

HealingBlight

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I am thinking to converting to FSM after that last comment.

Praise be to the Flying Spaghetti monster! For he has touched another with his noodely appendage!

coffee_cake

HealingBlight wrote:

Praise be to the Flying Spaghetti monster! For he has touched another with his noodely appendage!

Oooh, saucy.

Pocari Sweat

Remember that advert on tv

"I take spaghetti and I noodle cars and boats and planes and trees,
and lots and lots of shapes like these,
I'm the noodle doodle man"

God is like this, he takes simple noodles and makes something wonderful,
so I think you should all be born again christians and stop your heathenism.

Repent ye sinners.

the real ramon

Hi all,

yeah, most of them probably do believe in it all for the best of intentions like 99% of people in any walk of life or sub-culture. Have stayed away from Christianity forum myself because I knew there'd be a few unreasonable nuts there and as an earlier post said you can't reason with people like that.

It's a shame I think that creationism is beginning to become more vocal within Christianity (or maybe it just appears that way to me) because Christianity isn't all that bad at heart, it led for instance to the abolition of slavery.

Maybe it's always been this way, but I suspect some people are afraid of science and its implications and so would rather put their faith in supersition and nonsense which to them makes the world clearer morally and in other ways than the messyness that is living in this world. Marxists are the same IMO.

Probably always been that way, and they'll always remain a minority I would guess. It's moderate Christians who should be more worried than atheists and agnostics methinks

robindch

> Christianity isn't all that bad at heart, it led for instance to the
> abolition of slavery.

Within the British Empire, the main abolitionist was William Wilberforce who was an evangelical christian, though his many supporters don't seem to have been particularly religiously motivated.

Within the USA, some of the earliest anti-slavery abolitionists were Quakers, but these good folks saw themselves as a small minority of christian dissenters, and certainly were not mainstream christians in any sense (and who were frequently damned from the pulpit for being abolitionists). A quick google produces this map:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/african/images/reynomap.jpg

...where the red bits (the librul, wife-swappin', heathen north) had abolished slavery in marked contrast to the gray bits (god feerin', good ole bible-thumping christian south), which didn't seem to see much of a problem with it. There was a similar north-south split happened in the 50's and 60's with the Civil Rights movement.

In summary, I think saying that christianity led to the abolition of slavery could be seen as a mild overstatement

the real ramon

Perhaps not all Christianity was in favour of abolition, but weren't the majority of people in Europe and North America who were in favour of abolition claiming it was their Christian conscience which led them to be in favour of abolition. After all it was, although increasingly liberal, still very much a 'believing' age when this happened. That at least is the way I've always understood it.

Scofflaw

the real ramon wrote:

Perhaps not all Christianity was in favour of abolition, but weren't the majority of people in Europe and North America who were in favour of abolition claiming it was their Christian conscience which led them to be in favour of abolition. After all it was, although increasingly liberal, still very much a 'believing' age when this happened. That at least is the way I've always understood it.

Hmm. Given that slavery continued uninterrupted in Europe from the Roman Empire, would you not say it took Christianity rather a while (1800 years?) to "abolish slavery"?

cordially,
Scofflaw

HealingBlight

Jesus, who has the oppertunity to set the record straight and speak out harshly aginst the injustice of slavery, doesent. The bible makes no real outcry aginst slavery, but instead holds instructions on how to handle slaves and how hard to punish them.

Those who opposed slavery were good people, there were some who just happened to be christian.

the real ramon

Scofflaw wrote:

Hmm. Given that slavery continued uninterrupted in Europe from the Roman Empire, would you not say it took Christianity rather a while (1800 years?) to "abolish slavery"?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Did take it an awful long time I concur, but less than anywhere else. I don't know what changed in the European mindset, perhaps it was partly the reformation, perhaps it was more down to the increasing liberalism which was in part, though not totally in oppostion to Christianity, it's hard to tell, though you would have to concede despite the length of time it took, people were, for the most part, in the end arguing from a liberal Christian perspective.

I don't think anyone can say Christianity was all bad (some might, but they'd be wrong). In a way it has a similar (but different, obviously) spectrum running from a good bit to the left to far right just like atheists, both are still part of the European tradition, it's just that some people decided, in the great liberal tradition of Europe, to split completely from Christianity, while other liberals decided to stay in the fold. I have a lot of time myself for both the atheistic/agnostic tradition and also the liberal dissenter traditions. I think it's important not to completely dismiss every Christian tradition just because they believe.:)

Scofflaw

the real ramon wrote:

Did take it an awful long time I concur, but less than anywhere else.

I agree with the rest of your points, but would have to take issue with this one. Slavery, in the sense most of us think of it (that is, in the sense that it was abolished), was essentially a European (hence Christian) phenomenon. It therefore couldn't be abolished in a lot of places, because it didn't exist as such.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

the real ramon wrote:

Perhaps not all Christianity was in favour of abolition, but weren't the majority of people in Europe and North America who were in favour of abolition claiming it was their Christian conscience which led them to be in favour of abolition. After all it was, although increasingly liberal, still very much a 'believing' age when this happened. That at least is the way I've always understood it.

maybe morality was confused with christianity back then too.