New Mark IV's now in service

Navan Junction

'New' end



201 Loco end

Taken 22.05.2006 in Kildare station

drdre

very nice trains, hope they donot get spray paint behind the seats as they usually do.:mad:

Alun

Not being a train anorak, or even a locosexual for that matter, can someone explain to me (in simple non-nerdy language) why both ends aren't "pointy"" Looks pretty stupid to me.

अधिनायक

I have some basic questions:

Do they have an engine at each end?
Are they those trains with an engine in every carriage?
Do they go faster than the old trains?
Have they sorted out the bit of the journey where the train slows down to 30-40 mph for some reason?

Navan Junction

Alun wrote:

Not being a train anorak, or even a locosexual for that matter, can someone explain to me (in simple non-nerdy language) why both ends aren't "pointy"" Looks pretty stupid to me.

Because they didn't buy the engines. They are using the 201 locos to pull/push the carriages and the engineless 'pointy end'.

There is only a loco at one end in effect..

IÉ say they will buy the 'loco' part at some point in the future.

No engines in carriages

No, they won't be any faster because it's the same loco as before (201s). But they do have wifi apparently..;)

popebenny16

have some basic questions:

Do they have an engine at each end?
Are they those trains with an engine in every carriage?
Do they go faster than the old trains?
Have they sorted out the bit of the journey where the train slows down to 30-40 mph for some reason?

They dont.
No, just the same auld on at the front
No, as its the same engine
No, Portarlington, Lisduff and the rest are as bad as ever.

अधिनायक

So did they buy them because they'd run out of trains or because the old ones were being scrapped?

MarkoP11

No cash to buy new locomotives, the DoT had paid for 32 new locomotives only 5 years before IE were authorised to seek tenders for further stock.

Main reason for purchase was to eliminate the older stock which is 75mph limited, you won't see any reduction in Dublin Cork times but Dublin Limerick and Galway should see big improvements as a result of the elimination of the older stock.

To be honest a new supped up set of locomotives won't do much given the track condition which is horrible in places. The whole 200kph thing came from an over enthusiastic journalist who found out the coaches are capable of 200kph, pity she didn't do her homework since the 1984 batch are good for 200kph and infact hold the Irish rail speed record at 200kph achieved in testing Summer 1984

Is it a nice passenger friendly train, it sure is, is it perfect not quite but it is a serious attempt to bring some style and comfort back to the long distance rail business

अधिनायक

MarkoP11 wrote:

Main reason for purchase was to eliminate the older stock which is 75mph limited, you won't see any reduction in Dublin Cork times but Dublin Limerick and Galway should see big improvements as a result of the elimination of the older stock.

Makes sense.

Is it a nice passenger friendly train, it sure is, is it perfect not quite but it is a serious attempt to bring some style and comfort back to the long distance rail business

It would be enough to make me try the train the next time I'm off to Cork. The old Citygold service was great, I wonder if these trains have a nice first class, if I can get someone else to pay.

I'll be bringing my own food though unless I hear that they've outsourced catering away from that workshy shower, hiding behind their closed shutters with their club milks and stale sangers.

MarkoP11

All 8 of the new trains have a full 44 seat first class coach with the table lamp and the wider seats. Full citygold service is provided, the logo is carried outside, but at the moment its normal first class unless the train is running one of the timetabled citygold services which it isnt yet.

Catering has is thankfully been outsourced and tenders issued for a third party to run it, that said on return to Dublin (we got out at Thurles) one of the Platform 11 crew tucked into a full Irish breakfast for €11 on the 9:30 Cork Dublin, no complaints here, either we got lucky or they knew we was coming. You won't be getting that anymore as the on train cooked fry is on the way out, last country in Europe to provide it was Ireland its all reheat now

We got free tea and coffee in steerage class today, with 2 catering trolleys on board, new trolleys and all

popebenny16

€11 for a full Irish!!!! If you'd have walked down the road a bit a bit you'd have got it for a lot less.

MarkoP11

For what you get, on a moving train its not bad value. You would pay 10-15 euro in a hotel if breakfast wasn't in the room price

Red Alert

i don't really see why they should bother buying the loco's. The 201's or 071's are suitable, of sufficient horsepower and can do the max speed allowed. Plus they've spent money getting the 201 cab into the Pointy End (which in theory will operate 071's since 201's and 071's are supposed to be operable in multiple, although i've never seen a setup like that). and they've learned the lessons from the enterprise so the pointy end is in fact a DVT and Heating Van in one.

great to see it in service finally! does the PIS system or WiFi work on it?

MarkoP11

071 can haul the train but can't push it, its complicated

The PIS works perfectly, it could do with a few tweaks but the side displays worked and the internal displays worked as expected. The auto announcement even happen as gaeilge

All in all quite an impressive train, few minor issues to sort out but for day one it was impressive

Downside, no wifi, no power sockets, no in seat entertainment

Navan Junction

darkman2

Navan Junction wrote:

Any pictures of inside the train?:rolleyes:

Navan Junction

darkman2 wrote:

Any pictures of inside the train?:rolleyes:

Only have 2. I don't have permission of those in the photos so are photoshopped out.

darkman2

Navan Junction wrote:

Only have 2. I don't have permission of those in the photos so are photoshopped out.

Thanks, Looks very smart:D (because its hard to judge on those pictures) Whats it like compared to the drogheda commuter trains? Also can you even compare them to the old trains (the ones you had to stick your hand out to open the door!):)

MarkoP11

If you want to get technical

The ride is good, not quite MK3 standard but better than everything else
Seat spacing is on par with other trains, but the table is a little small
Windows don't line up with the seats
The lighting is defused so its soft
It comes with curtains
Its really really quiet even at 90mph
The AC actually works

Navan Junction

darkman2 wrote:

Whats it like compared to the drogheda commuter trains?

We got a commuter train back. Way better than that. Really quiet, can't hear the boom of other trains passing, tinted windows (kind of greenish) controlled climate.

Grand as far as I could tell. Not an expert though, but much more comfortable that the return leg on the commuter..

Cerdito

If I wanted to take a journey on one of the new trains, what would be the best times/routes to go for, to be assured of travelling on one?

Zhane

Anyone know what lines will be getting these new Mark IVs Intercities? Will the Rosslare line get one cos on the timetable it says its an intercity service but its a commuter train. We had an old intercity train before we got a commuter. And the commuter trains are not very comfortable for a 2 and a half hour journey!

John R

Zhane wrote:

Anyone know what lines will be getting these new Mark IVs Intercities? Will the Rosslare line get one cos on the timetable it says its an intercity service but its a commuter train. We had an old intercity train before we got a commuter. And the commuter trains are not very comfortable for a 2 and a half hour journey!

They are only for Dublin-Cork services.

There are new intercity railcars on order, not sure if they will be on Rosslare services though.

SeanW

Zhane wrote:

Anyone know what lines will be getting these new Mark IVs Intercities? Will the Rosslare line get one cos on the timetable it says its an intercity service but its a commuter train. We had an old intercity train before we got a commuter. And the commuter trains are not very comfortable for a 2 and a half hour journey!

Rosslare line end-to-end timings are in the 3 hour range.

And as for IEs schedule, of course they CALL it an "Intercity" service but put low grade commuter railcars on it.

They did the same with the Sligo line.

This was a strategic decision by IE to slip in these rubbish trains and hope the people of Wicklow, Wexford, Longford, Leitrim and Sligo are too much stupid culchies to know the difference. Either that or they tried to kill both lines. Or they're just plain grossly incompetent.

Says a lot about Irish Rail's "management."

DerekP11

SeanW wrote:

Rosslare line end-to-end timings are in the 3 hour range.

And as for IEs schedule, of course they CALL it an "Intercity" service but put low grade commuter railcars on it.

They did the same with the Sligo line.

This was a strategic decision by IE to slip in these rubbish trains and hope the people of Wicklow, Wexford, Longford, Leitrim and Sligo are too much stupid culchies to know the difference. Either that or they tried to kill both lines. Or they're just plain grossly incompetent.

Says a lot about Irish Rail's "management."

Until last Summer, things looked very bleak for the Sligo and Rosslare lines. Sean is right that commuter railcars were put on these lines and passed off as new trains. P11 had a very vocal discussion about this with IE last year. At the time it was anticipated that at least one set of the new Intercity DMU'S on order (not to be confused with new Cork trains) would be deployed on the Sligo line. However things improved drastically, when believe it or not, an underspend by the NRA was realocated to IE and they ordered further Intercity DMU sets for the Sligo and Rosslare lines. So by 2008 every line in the country should have proper trains to suit the journey, that are new or nearly new.

Going back to the new trains, one of which started today. IE originally said that they would operate all Cork services and "key" Galway and Limerick services. I believe they should stick to this policy when all trains are in service until the arrival of the new stock. Galway and Limerick passengers deserve a chance to sample them as they are the next busiest intercity lines out of heuston. But knowing IE as I do, it won't happen and they'll deny they ever said they would do it, even as they look at their original press release.

As for the new trains on order for the Sligo, Westport, Galway, Limerick, Kerry, Waterford and Rosslare lines, they look equally as nice as the train introduced today. But we'll have to wait until they arrive and enter service to make a real judgement.

Regardless of all the new trains being introduced, journey times will be more or less the same as they are now. Meanwhile the road building goes on making the drive time quicker. I fear IE have still missed the boat.

John R

Those tables are very small indeed.

It is a bit disappointing that there are no power sockets or audio, these are commonplace now in new builds elsewhere.

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0522/rail.html

Train at centre of row makes first trip
22 May 2006 19:48

The Mark 4 train at the centre of the row which left thousands of commuters stranded last week has completed its first run from Dublin to Cork.

The Spanish-built train left Heuston Station in Dublin at 9.00am this morning and arrived into Kent Station, Cork, at 11.50am.

A week ago today, the country's rail network ground to a halt after locomotive drivers in Cork refused to operate the new trains.

The drivers were demanding reduced working hours to operate them, even though the Labour Court had ruled against them last January.

The unofficial action was finally resolved when the unions and management agreed to further talks on core issues.

Although the train has the same passenger capacity as the old ones, Iarnród Éireann says the promised hourly timetable will see more people on the move.

MarkoP11

Should be running the 9:00 Dublin Cork (first stop Kildare) and 13:30 Cork Dubllin all this week, but its probably a permanent fixture

Lambsbread

What i gather from reading the posts above, is that the trains are not faster than the old trains and have the same passenger capacity. Begs the question, why the drivers want more money with less hours for driving pretty much the same trains?

popebenny16

Yes, it does, dosnt it?

Ah well.................

SeanW

Lambsbread wrote:

What i gather from reading the posts above, is that the trains are not faster than the old trains and have the same passenger capacity. Begs the question, why the drivers want more money with less hours for driving pretty much the same trains?

Good question ...

jd

Ahem...

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1618773&issue_id=14083

I blame Victor..

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]Phwoar! Trainspotters swoon as the new Iarnrod carriages 'boldly go' . . . eventually[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]WITH the Wildcat Express safely shunted to a discreet siding, it was smiles all round for the relieved worthies of Iarnrod Eireann as they boarded The Phil Flynn Flyer for its maiden outing.
It had all looked so different a week ago, when the non-appearance in Dublin of the nine o'clock train to Cork signalled a snap strike by train drivers, leaving stranded passengers fuming on the platform and sparking two days of chaos on the national railways.
A freshly rehabilitated Phil Flynn - out of commission since a spot of bother over wholly unsubstantiated links to the IRA and a miniature novelty gun - chugged in to spread his legendary troubleshooting balm over union and management. The former union boss-turned-businessman's negotiating skills did the trick, and Iarnrod Eireann's new inter-city trains were back on track.
Memories
Yesterday morning, once the 9am from Heuston rolled away on schedule, company officials relaxed. But not for long. Memories of the Eurostar London launch still haunt people in the railway world, when the first train for France stalled midway in the Channel Tunnel, with the queen stuck in her royal compartment and Prince Philip's shopping list for cheap beer and ciggies burning a hole in her handbag.
So, officially, yesterday's voyage commenced a few weeks of "in-service trials". No brass band played on the platform to mark the occasion. But there was complimentary tea and coffee for all the passengers.
Most of them weren't terribly excited at the prospect of being the first to travel on the Mark lV carriages. Long years spent enduring crowded trains and second-rate facilities tend to dull the sense of wonder.
Iarnrod says the new carriages will see Ireland reverse its standing as the country with the oldest intercity trains in Europe to becoming the one with the most modern fleet.
Sixty-seven of the carriages have already been acquired for €117m, and they are gradually coming into service. A second order for 150 more has been placed at a cost of €322m.
This turnaround, God and Phil Flynn willing, will happen in a couple of years.
But will the trains go any faster? Not quite. It's a case of new carriages, same locomotives.
Barry Kenny from Iarnrod Eireann explains we're never going to get a French TGV or Japanese bullet train-type service here. We don't have the same sort of distance to cover, nor do we have the population density.
However, once all the new stock is in commission, there will be more trains on the network, leading to increased numbers of departures, which mean all the fiddly little stops along the way that slow a journey can be shared out across the timetable, leading to faster arrival times.
By December, a train will leave from Dublin for Cork on the hour, every hour, while the return leg will depart every hour on the half hour.
Naturally, there were trainspotters on board yesterday. Despite the rail company's attempts to play everything down, this was a big event for the trainspotting community.
Apparently, the younger, hipper manifestation of the breed like to refer to themselves as "locosexuals". They inhabit chat boards and websites. Locosexuals are likely to have well-thumbed copies of network timetables from around the world under their mattresses.
They also like to look at pictures of trains, but only when they're not taking pictures of trains.
But back to the Mark lV carriages, which are similar to those in service on the Dublin/Belfast line. Bright, comfortable and clean, they offer swishy doors and automated announcements. No more garbled gurgles drifting in and out of the speakers.
As for the circular-shaped toilets, the high-tech doors hiss open and closed, Star Trek fashion.
You press a green button to open the door. Once inside, you press another to close it. However, there is a third, red button, which is the lock. A lot of people are overlooking this, which may present a problem.
We went to inspect the facilities, pressed the lighted green button and the door duly did its Star Trek thing, only for us to be confronted by a gentleman bearing an uncanny likeness to William Shatner bending over the sink performing his ablutions.
If we'd gone to check a few minutes earlier, our intrepid Shatner lookalike would have learned the true meaning of what it is to "boldly go".
There's a new menu, and a beefed up trolley service. Thankfully, the full Irish breakfast remains, accompanied by our new national dish, the breakfast roll.
And here's the biggest development of all. The deep fat fryer is gone. No more chips.
The smell of rancid fat will soon be no more on intercity trains.
It's an all-change junction here. Even the locosexuals are nostalgic. The second order of carriages will have in-built thrusters. Phwoar! No more locomotives.
They are already mourning the loss of throb.
There's more to this trainspotting than meets the eye.
Miriam Lord
[/FONT]

Navan Junction

jd wrote:

Apparently, the younger, hipper manifestation of the breed like to refer to themselves as "locosexuals". They inhabit chat boards and websites. Locosexuals are likely to have well-thumbed copies of network timetables from around the world under their mattresses. They also like to look at pictures of trains, but only when they're not taking pictures of trains.

God almighty...! I reckon it's T21 Fan getting revenge of sorts...!

Kind of quiet without him, isn't it?

BuffyBot

Miriam..surely some original material isn't beyond your abilities...

DerekP11

Have to admit, I think the indo article is hilarious. Whether they like it or not, the stereotypical view of "trainspotters" is true to form in many cases. There are some decent skins out there who just enjoy the interest, but the more obsessed, tend to dominate and drive the perception.

This forum has to take the credit for the indo article. A bit of humour on a very dreary day. Whats the harm?

SeanW

If Ms. Lord wanted to be funny, she should have worn a clown costume. Given the standard of journalism in that piece, methinks it would fit very well.

Victor

jd wrote:

Ahem...
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1618773&issue_id=14083 I blame Victor..

Realise that you were locosexual #1, the word was invented for you. :p:p:p

[edit] Actually you weren't.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77565&highlight=locosexual
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89806&highlight=locosexual
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=208607&page=3&highlight=locosexual

jd

Victor wrote:

Realise that you were locosexual #1, the word was invented for you. :p:p:p

[edit] Actually you weren't.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77565&highlight=locosexual
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89806&highlight=locosexual
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=208607&page=3&highlight=locosexual

You think?
In all honesty, all I am interested in is an adequate transport system around Ireland-both road and rail (and if you review my posts in motors and commuting/transport, victor, you will have to concede that) .One thing I have in common with TommyTransport21 is very little time for traisnspotters (or locosexuals).
jd

SeanW

Tried to read those pages, got a no access message.

Are those on private forums?

I find the article offensive. Granted, I'm only a little bit of a trainspotter, but bringing "sexual" into the mix is just below-the-belt stereotyping and insults, for no other reason other than to hide the crap journalism in some of these papers.

And Victor, I'm sorry but I have to ask, in the run-up to the this article you pinned two threads with "LOCOSEXUAL" in the title. These threads IMHO shouldn't have been open/running, let alone both of them pinned. What was going on there?

jd

SeanW wrote:

Tried to read those pages, got a no access message.

Are those on private forums?

?

They were moved to the moderator's forum (I can read them, because I mod the angling board)
jd

Victor

SeanW wrote:

Tried to read those pages, got a no access message. Are those on private forums?

I think all are on the Mod forum.

I find the article offensive. Granted, I'm only a little bit of a trainspotter, but bringing "sexual" into the mix is just below-the-belt stereotyping and insults, for no other reason other than to hide the crap journalism in some of these papers.

We should send the Spell Czechs after the Indo.

And Victor, I'm sorry but I have to ask, in the run-up to the this article you pinned two threads with "LOCOSEXUAL" in the title. These threads IMHO shouldn't have been open/running, let alone both of them pinned. What was going on there?

Commonly known Earth concept called humour, which appear to have gone over Miriam Lord's head.

I was chastised at the weekend, apparently it is etymologicly incorrect.

Stark

So anyone know the times the new trains are in service? I got the 5:00 from Dublin to Cork today and my friend got the 3:00 and both were old trains.

MarkoP11

9:00 Dublin Cork, 13:30 Cork Dublin, Mon Sat

Train cant stay overnight in Cork due to continuing issues in Cork (not driving related)

This is still a test train and may be withdrawn at any moment for modification

Stark

Thanks.

popebenny16

I fink Sean may be getting a little bit over the top there. I thought it was a pun on Metrosexuals more than anything else. As for ThomasS, well, it was a good laugh and judging by the reviews on P11 and IRN of the new trains you can certanly see where he's coming (oppps) from.

oh, coupling, there's another one.

daymobrew

MarkoP11 wrote:

To be honest a new supped up set of locomotives won't do much given the track condition which is horrible in places. The whole 200kph thing came from an over enthusiastic journalist who found out the coaches are capable of 200kph, pity she didn't do her homework since the 1984 batch are good for 200kph and infact hold the Irish rail speed record at 200kph achieved in testing Summer 1984

Speaking of high speeds, I was in Italy recently and got a train from Rome and Naples. It was one of their new Italian-made Eurostar trains. According to an ad on the top right of their homepage it is capable of 300kph.
The 220km (approx) journey took 80mins, so it was doing an average of 165kph (>100mph).
It was really quiet and smooth. We bought our tickets, including selecting our seats, from automated touch-screen machines which had an English option (in addition to Italian, French, German and Spanish). It was e33 each way. I was very impressed.

bk

daymobrew wrote:

Speaking of high speeds, I was in Italy recently and got a train from Rome and Naples. It was one of their new Italian-made Eurostar trains. According to an ad on the top right of their homepage it is capable of 300kph.
The 220km (approx) journey took 80mins, so it was doing an average of 165kph (>100mph).
It was really quiet and smooth. We bought our tickets, including selecting our seats, from automated touch-screen machines which had an English option (in addition to Italian, French, German and Spanish). It was e33 each way. I was very impressed.

Basically only slightly shorter then Cork to Dublin (260km). Could you imagine Cork to Dublin in a hour and a half. People could almost commute from Cork to Dublin :mad:

John R

bk wrote:

Basically only slightly shorter then Cork to Dublin (260km). Could you imagine Cork to Dublin in a hour and a half. People could almost commute from Cork to Dublin :mad:

If only the population of Cork was similar to that of Naples then there might be a case for a new high-speed line.

Being realistic about the situation, a relatively small investement in removing all of the current permanent speed restrictions on the route as well as replacing much of the track which needs replacing soon anyway would allow the current 100MPH stock to give non-stop Cork-Dublin times close to the 2 hour mark.

Victor

Tee hee hee.

Indo wrote:

Apparently, the younger, hipper manifestation of the breed like to refer to themselves as "locosexuals". They inhabit chat boards and websites. Locosexuals are likely to have well-thumbed copies of network timetables from around the world under their mattresses.

Victor @ Luas C1 Inquiry wrote:

boards.ie

boards.ie is Ireland’s largest community website with more than 70,000 users and is the fifteenth busiest website in Ireland, behind the likes of google.com and ireland.com and pipped for fourteenth place by ebay.ie.

It has approximately 650 individual bulletin boards on topics ranging from sport to society to the arts.

While the profile of users is typically young, urban and computer-savvy, by sheer number of users it draws from a substantial proportion of the population.

The site is regularly quoted in the national media. Indeed, only last week, the Irish Independent incorrectly identified some users as "loco-sexuals", a word that I coined to represent those who are, shall I say over-excited by railway vehicles and perhaps forget the original function to the railway.

boards.ie has been associated with a number of campaigning groups including Ireland OffLine and Irish Citizens for Trustworthy e-Voting, of which the Minister is no doubt aware.

bk

John R wrote:

If only the population of Cork was similar to that of Naples then there might be a case for a new high-speed line.

Being realistic about the situation, a relatively small investement in removing all of the current permanent speed restrictions on the route as well as replacing much of the track which needs replacing soon anyway would allow the current 100MPH stock to give non-stop Cork-Dublin times close to the 2 hour mark.

That sounds like a good compromise, so when will they be doing it?

I think Irish Rail will come under pressure to do this in the future. With many people now flying to Cork for cheap and with the vastly improved Cork to Dublin motorway to be finished in 4 years time, radically reducing the journey time. I expect rail travel will become far less attractive to people over time and they will need ot improve or become obsolete.

MarkoP11

There is outstanding trackworks at Limerick Junc, Lisduff, Ballybrophy and Portarlington which are to be or meant to be dealt with in the short to medium term, those works alone should chop 10-15 minutes off the time. Kildare route project should mean 100 mph running from Cherry Orchard to Cherryville Junc (limited to 90 mph currently due to signalling), thats worth maybe 2-3 minutes

As of next year the end to end time is looking like 2:35 with 3 stops, once the outstanding works are complete it should be 2:20, if IE remove the excessive timetable padding another 5-7 minutes comes off that number

The 'plan' which is not funded is to then straighten out some of the curves to increase speed and to continue to eliminate level crossings with a view go bringing the speed limit between Clondalkin and Limerick Junc up to 125 mph which would result in a 2 hours ish timing, 83mph average

The airlines won't win since they can never match the capacity of the rail solution, the roads will improve the massive congestion in Dublin will still result in slow journeys. I wouldn't underestimate the impact of rising fuel prices on motorist behaviour (and that of Ryanair) it could turn the tables and add another element into the equation

Yield managed fares are coming next year on the train, the new train has got electronic reservation tags above all seats http://www.platform11.org/images/CDE/reservations.jpg