how far is beer setting me back

eoinf

Ive recently started going to the gym and excercising a lot more . i have seen a little improvement in my overall fitness and lost some weight . however i still regularly (at least twice a week ) go on sessions with the lads . i was just wondering how far this is setting me back .

DubNside

eoinf wrote:

Ive recently started going to the gym and excercising a lot more . i have seen a little improvement in my overall fitness and lost some weight . however i still regularly (at least twice a week ) go on sessions with the lads . i was just wondering how far this is setting me back .

Depends on how serious you are about the gym, obviously you will notice some kind of difference, i mean just cos its better than being idle.

However going training in the gym and then going out on the beer, generally means your wasting the majority of your effort.

As you know beer is loaded with bad carbs, it dehydrates your system, etc.

slicus ricus

This is a problem i experience myself - id generally go out once a week. Best thing to do is to do your training sessions on days where you're not going out that night or are not hung over. If you train and then go out on d piss, you'll be wasting much of what you've done that day. Dont even bother trying to train with a hangover - no point.

Its just a question of priorities. Sometimes (particularly if you're young), life comes before training. One of the joys of youth is that there will always be a time in the future where you can fine tune your lifestyle to the point where it complements your training.

Degsy

Its also linked to oestrogen production in men,which is something you can do without especially if you're trying to build muscle.Mostly,though it makes you fat and the chances are you wont want to go to the gym with a stinking hangover!!

Jak

How far is it setting you back?

Depends on genetics, training intensity and frequency, training type, what a "drinking" session entails and so on.

From your post I guess you are not back at training too long, so given that you are seeing some results I wouldn't worry unduly. My advice would be to cut it to one day a week and try to have a rest day the day after. The reason for this is that whilst it is far better to train with a hangover than to not train at all, if you lack condition and energy you may just put in a very poor quality session. Also a night out during the week, with work the next morning and then training can leave you tired midweek - making it tougher to train. Do yourself a favour and try to stay rested during the week at least - it's not easy to combine work and training sometimes.

I tend to operate on one night a week out with minimal drinking during the week. I'd train 5 times a week and try to be active on the other days too - it works just fine. I have stopped drinking for up to a month to see if I noticed any shift in energy or results - I did feel a bit better rested, but no more so than going to bed at 8pm on a Sunday evening. Skipping my weekend night out did little for me in terms of feeling mentally prepared for another full week at work.

Assuming you are a normal enough, healthy person I'd suggest you balance your training out with your lifestyle - If not it simply won't work out in the long run.

JAK

Lothaar

I'd have a big session/night out maybe once a month. However, I'd sit in with a bottle of wine maybe 5 out of 7 nights a week. Some nights I'd drink a whole bottle to myself, others I'd only have a glass or so.

Usually if I'm drinking a lot I *feel* it. I feel unhealthy. But over the last month or so I've felt grand, drinking wine most nights. Should I be looking to cut this out to get better results from my training? I mean... obviously I would get *better* results... but exactly how bad is this?

If it's not making too much of a difference, I'd continue the way I am.

Linoge

Lothaar wrote:

I'd sit in with a bottle of wine maybe 5 out of 7 nights a week. Some nights I'd drink a whole bottle to myself,

Now that you've put it in writing you've made your first step.

Your liver is quite an important organ ya know.

BossArky

Lothaar wrote:

I'd sit in with a bottle of wine maybe 5 out of 7 nights a week. Some nights I'd drink a whole bottle to myself, others I'd only have a glass or so.

but exactly how bad is this?

Its BAD.

Lothaar

Really? My diet is clean as a whistle apart from this, and I don’t go on the tear very often. I’d have a whole bottle of wine to myself on Friday night, and perhaps again on Sat. I drink plenty of water, and make sure to drink water between glasses of wine. I would drink the bottle slowly, over a period of three to four hours.
The other nights that I sit in with a bottle of wine (with my missus), I’d have between one glass and half a bottle, depending.

Is it really THAT bad?

Jaysus, most people I know have a couple of pints most nights of the week and go on the lash a lot more often than me.

Smellyirishman

Lothaar wrote:

Jaysus, most people I know have a couple of pints most nights of the week and go on the lash a lot more often than me.

And are they cut below 10% BF benching thier own bodyweight? or do they look like they just swallowed a beachball?

Regardless, your still doing damage to your system over time with that much drinking and they are only going to be worse.

Jak

Ok .. quite simply.

You are better off without alcohol because it can impede muscle growth, recovery, training quality etc. I am not aware of any quantitative studies on the exact impact for any individual, but it will vary along the lines of the factors I already mentioned. You cannot be assessed on a public forum.

At a young age when training, you should likely avoid mixing heavy alcohol use and training as it is an important time for your development and you do not want to inhibit growth.

Also you should avoid alcohol before (for obvious and less obvious reasons) and directly after training. Try to give your body some time to recover before introducing alcohol to the mix.

A final point is that in moderation the impact of alcohol can be ignored in the grand scheme of things if you are...

Eating well - not perfect but make sure you have what you need
Training smart - Ensure your programs adapt and challenge your body
Training often - At least 3 times a week with a more 'active' lifestyle
Training hard - Most don't.

As always, if you get those four things right everything else falls by the wayside in terms of it's significance to your results. People constantly look for other excuses and reasons for poor results when generally the flaw lies in one of these basic four principles.

JAK

Lothaar

Smellyirishman wrote:

And are they cut below 10% BF benching thier own bodyweight?

Obviously not. I never said anything about getting a single-figure bf% while drinking a lot. That's just preachy and patronising.

Jak - thank you for the helpful reply. I pretty much get those four things right and am happy with my development.

joejoem

eoinf wrote:

how far is beer setting me back ?

This much ( )

Linoge

Lothaar wrote:

Obviously not. I never said anything about getting a single-figure bf% while drinking a lot. That's just preachy and patronising.

SIM was not preaching or patronising, he was pointing out that you are comparing yourself to obviously non health-conscious people.

If you want to see the amount that you should drink why dont you compare yourself to Arnold and Ronnie instead of Micko and Damo.

Jak

The OP, subsequent poster and mentioned friends are neither alcoholic hobos nor Mr.Olympia competitors. We have established that drinking does not do you any favours. However, anecdotally, I have probably had one heavy night drinking a week for 10 years, with mild weekday alcohol consumption, wine etc. I have also been training seriously for 10 years. In that time I have made consistent gains because of adhering to the four principles above. Some gains have slowed in recent years, but probably more as a result of natural thresholds, a chosen cardio/strength balance and an unwillingness to increase my bodyweight.

My point is that with some common sense and some planning it was quite easy for me to mix training and alcohol. Following the points in the earlier post with regard to rest, not drinking before and immediately after etc.

The reason I am pushing this is not to say alcohol has no impact, but to highlight the importance of balance and fitting training with your lifestyle. If you cut out drinking to train, chances are you will cut out training to drink at some point. Obviously we have exceptions, but both posters seem to enjoy and want to protect their drinking habits - which are not extreme. As long as you still make up the sessions and follow the principles above (I don't know if they do) my view would be they can easily counteract the limited effects their alcohol intake is having on their development.

As a final aside...

Single figure bodyfat is maintained by very few people for any length of time and is not always a good health/condition indicator.

Bodyweight benching is comparatively easy to maintain - probably even for a hobo with gym membership.

JAK.

Smellyirishman

Jak wrote:

Single figure bodyfat is maintained by very few people for any length of time and is not always a good health/condition indicator.

Bodyweight benching is comparatively easy to maintain - probably even for a hobo with gym membership.

OK, well then low body fat (visible abs anyway) and I realise that BW benching is not too hard but was asking if these friends who were drinking so much could do it. Lothaar was comparing his habits to those of people who probably have no interest in aquiring these things , so saying "but I drink less than them" doesn't mean anything. I was just trying to point this out.


I read a pretty good article on alcohol and BBing a while ago, let's see if I can dig it up...meh, couldn't find it, here is a BB.com article instead.

That article wrote:

.....
within 48 hours of its consumption, as little as two to three standard drinks can directly:

Decrease strength
Impair reaction time
Impair balance and eye/hand coordination
Impair fine motor and gross motor coordination
Increase fatigue
......

Now, that all has to be taken with some salt because you may not want to be on top of your game and may be willing to sacrafice some of these things to have your drinks during the week. I guess so long as your happy with your gains, then what more can you want, but to answer the original question I would say; Enough to warrant only drinking once a week (but always aiming to avoid it).

Degsy

I gave up drinking for six months last year(when i started training)..i have to say i've never been more unhappy.Moderation is key,if you only go out once a week you'll learn to look forward to it more and enjoy it more as well imo.

eoinf

cheers for the info.

but fook it, beer is brilliant so that kind of settles things for me.

Jak

Smellyirishman wrote:

I read a pretty good article on alcohol and BBing a while ago, let's see if I can dig it up...meh, couldn't find it, here is a BB.com article instead.

Yah I've read a few of these myself, to be honest I would not really rate the author or article at all. He starts out with a title "Bodybuilding and alcohol" but then with regard to the negative effects, he lists a few obvious fatigue related issues and many more which relate specifically to performance sports ... e.g.

Impair reaction time
Impair balance and eye/hand coordination
Impair fine motor and gross motor coordination
Cognitive Impairment

The above are issues yes... but cardio or weight training can be managed easily enough irrespective. I have training logs of ten years where I can see how well I lifted in all my sessions - I also make notes on whether I have been out the night before, am sick, feeling tired etc. It can impact on an individual session yes (usually not much), but progression levels stay consistent regardless. In the rest of his list we have ...

Dehydration
Disrupted sleep
Vitamin and mineral depletion

Now most of these can be dealt with through diet and timing of training and drinking ...

The only real issues I see with it are as follows:

Higher Oestrogen
Reduced cellular repair
Growth inhibition

Anyhows we have kind of gone in a circle on this, but I genuinely would be interested in finding some medical literature on the matter, as I guess you would. I find a lot of the stuff you can google just churns out a very basic spiel about alcohol being bad - without any quantitative testing or study of counteracting the effects of mediocre alcohol use.

All arrogance aside, I doubt I'd be in much better shape if I packed in alcohol altogether - but then I have no intention of trying that again, so I'll hunt for literature to let me know what I'm missing out on. Interesting topic ...

Cheers,

JAK

rubadub

If planning to drink, plan to do so on a fairly empty stomach. You have less calories since you ate less that day, and you need far less drink to get to your usual preffered level of drunkeness, so you take in less calories from drink too.

Of course people will say give it up altogether but many don't want to.

DubNside

rubadub wrote:

If planning to drink, plan to do so on a fairly empty stomach. You have less calories since you ate less that day, and you need far less drink to get to your usual preffered level of drunkeness, so you take in less calories from drink too.

I would say the opposite! If your planing on drinking have a good big meal, the more food you have in your stomach the better, of course it will soak up most of the alcohol, but you will start to feel really full/bloated and may only get through a couple of pints. And the next day you will feel a whole lot better!

If your going out to get really p155ed then dont eat anything or have something v small to eat.

Degsy

Jak wrote:

Yah I've read a few of these myself, to be honest I would not really rate the author or article at all. He starts out with a title "Bodybuilding and alcohol" but then with regard to the negative effects, he lists a few obvious fatigue related issues and many more which relate specifically to performance sports ... e.g.

Impair reaction time
Impair balance and eye/hand coordination
Impair fine motor and gross motor coordination
Cognitive Impairment

The above are issues yes... but cardio or weight training can be managed easily enough irrespective. I have training logs of ten years where I can see how well I lifted in all my sessions - I also make notes on whether I have been out the night before, am sick, feeling tired etc. It can impact on an individual session yes (usually not much), but progression levels stay consistent regardless. In the rest of his list we have ...

Dehydration
Disrupted sleep
Vitamin and mineral depletion

Now most of these can be dealt with through diet and timing of training and drinking ...

The only real issues I see with it are as follows:

Higher Oestrogen
Reduced cellular repair
Growth inhibition

Anyhows we have kind of gone in a circle on this, but I genuinely would be interested in finding some medical literature on the matter, as I guess you would. I find a lot of the stuff you can google just churns out a very basic spiel about alcohol being bad - without any quantitative testing or study of counteracting the effects of mediocre alcohol use.

All arrogance aside, I doubt I'd be in much better shape if I packed in alcohol altogether - but then I have no intention of trying that again, so I'll hunt for literature to let me know what I'm missing out on. Interesting topic ...

Cheers,

JAK

Thats a relief to those of us wht like a drink!:)

Lothaar

Smellyirishman wrote:

Lothaar was comparing his habits to those of people who probably have no interest in aquiring these things , so saying "but I drink less than them" doesn't mean anything.

I wasn't. I was expressing surprise that people were suggesting my liver is in trouble, and that they capitalised 'bad', when I consider my drinking to be in moderation. I'm not stupid and I wouldn't stick my head in a fire just because my friends did it.

Jak answered the question I asked perfectly. I'm not trying to be Mr Olympia. I just want to be fit, healthy and happy. Everything in moderation.