Today's Metal Scene

Per Liefsonson

Over the last little while I've been reading over posts in this forum, and, from what people are at least seeming to hint at, I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that the whole atmosphere of the scene back in the 80s was better than that of nowadays.

Is this true or am I coming to hasty conclusions?

projectmayhem

what scene?

i haven't invested in a "new band" in months. i'm sick of all this metalcore muck coming out these days.

as for gigs, ireland is a wasteland

Necronomicon

Ah I like a few of today's bands. Mastodon, Lamb Of God, Chimaira to name a couple.

Prezatch

I think the wave of brutal death metal bands that have come out recently is a positive thing for metal. Nile, necrophagist, hate eternal, cryptopsy etc. But yes 80s thrash metal was cool and the coolness is simply not being replicated these days. For instance, I find exodus' latest albums a bore to listen to

projectmayhem wrote:

as for gigs, ireland is a wasteland

I don't understand this? Are you saying there are no good metal gigs around? :eek:

nosmo

projectmayhem wrote:

as for gigs, ireland is a wasteland

Depends on your tastes I guess. Necrophagist, Obituary(soon to be twice), Cryptopsy (ditto), Aborted, Grave, Decapitated, Blind Guardian, Carpathian Forest, Opeth, Suffocation, Vader, Bolt Thrower all have come or are coming in the next few months.
Not to ignore local talent, with bands like Abaddon Incarnate and Wreck of the Hesperus impressing me as much as any foreign band have in the last few years.

Pugsley

JoeyD wrote:

I think the wave of brutal death metal bands that have come out recently is a positive thing for metal.necrophagist

Necrophagist released their first Demo in 1995, hardly new, probably been around for about 12 years or so.

As for new bands, theres so many ones coming out and all the cr*p ones seem to be getting the attention (I greatly dislike Lamb of God and Chimaira, stop starty tripe imo) , there is excellent music being released these days. Just got my hands of Emberlands self titled debut album, excellent brutal death metal album, and I strongly recommend it to anyone who likes bands like Mithras or Napalm Death. Capharnaum are another excellent band, they have a new album that came out out recently, 'Fractured' which is pretty damn good, damn impressive for a band who formed when the 2 main founding members were only aged 17 and 14. Harkonin are another excellent band, thrash/black metal, however their unsigned so their stuff isnt easy to get offline, you can get their CDs off their official website (http://www.harkonin.com/), cant recommend the 'Sermons of Anguish' album enough, brilliant stuff.

You just have to look pretty hard to find good music these days, but it is there, and a lot of it too.

gizmo

Hrm, I think most of what has been said above is whats wrong with the metal scene nowadays. In my opinion the problem lies with the fact that alot of people have too strict a definition of what metal is. Personally in the last few years I feel I've been spoiled with new and rising metal bands with the likes of God Forbid, Children Of Bodom, Lamb Of God, Shadows Fall, Trivium, Dragonforce, Killswitch Engage, Unearth, As I Lay Dying, Bullet To My Valentine, 3 Inches Of Blood, Lacuna Coil, Sonata Arctica...and I could go on.

Now my problem lies with the fact that some people wouldn't consider some of the above bands metal. This, for the most part, is complete rubbish. Personally I don't like the vast majority of "proper" death and black metal. On the other hand I love the likes of Opeth and Wintersun and I was recently introduced to Eternal Tears Of Sorrow. Now does any of the above make me more or less metal? Hell no! Metal, as I'm sure you are all well aware, is very broad genre in itself and those who think there is nothing outside the world of death and black metal really shouldnt be so negative when commeting on the "metal" scene.

My two cents anyway.

projectmayhem

nosmo wrote:

Depends on your tastes I guess. Necrophagist, Obituary(soon to be twice), Cryptopsy (ditto), Aborted, Grave, Decapitated, Blind Guardian, Carpathian Forest, Opeth, Suffocation, Vader, Bolt Thrower all have come or are coming in the next few months.
Not to ignore local talent, with bands like Abaddon Incarnate and Wreck of the Hesperus impressing me as much as any foreign band have in the last few years.

bar opeth i couldn't stand to go near the rest of the bands.

Necronomicon

projectmayhem wrote:

bar opeth i couldn't stand to go near the rest of the bands.

Well 'good' gigs are subjective I guess, but I think we've had a decent enough year. In June we have Guns n Roses, Metallica, Opeth and Down playing within a week of each other. Whether you like them all or not, that's not a bad line-up.

Doctor J

To be honest, I think Metal today is in a much healthier position than it was 10 years ago. The overwhelming majority of mid-late 90's metal sucked goat balls, it really did. Having com onboard in the 80's I sense a revival, an excitement in metal that hasn't been around for almost 15 years. There are some geniunely good bands out there and it feels like there is much more to come. The likes of Lamb Of God, Symbyosis and Mastodon especially have made an old bastard like me feel positively optimistic about the coming years. Plus, a lot of the older bands have gotten their **** together in a big way and the re-unions have been about 50% positive, 50% pointless. Yeah, there's still loads of not-so-good stuff too, but there has always been substandard music. The 90's felt like a dark and depressing tunnel into ****esville. These days, there is cause for optimism, which is cause to celebrate IMO

I don't think you can recapture the vibe of the 80's, Metal was breaking new ground all the time, new releases were something the likes of which you had never heard before. The same innovation isn't apparent but after years in a trough, the quality is beginning to come to the surface again.

Ph3n0m

and i quote

Live to die and die to play
Every day and place
Leave a path of metal
Across the world from stage to stage.....

......In denim and leather
We were all part of one force
Knocked Rock and Roll on its ass
And put metal on the course

dimerocks

Its not that the scene is unhealthy its that "the kids" will listen to whatever tripe they are fed by Kerrang and Metal Hammer. There are plenty of good bands out there that just don't get the exposure they desserve. Opeth are getting it at the moment and will reach a larger argument thanks to Roadrunner. I have my problems with RR records mainly because of the way they treat bands.
There is too much for me that sounds like everything else. Too much of this A7X stuff. Mastodon are one of the few bands in the last while that have been worth listening to. The likes of Sepultura and Crowbar put out fantastic albums but don't get coverage to put it in peoples faces. In fairness to people like Jamey Jasta, he tries to get bands like this coverage. **** me this is a long post, to close if you're looking for some quality metal check out High on Fire or Pelican. I often just drop onto Relapse Records site to see what they have. Most bands on that label are very good.

MagnumForce

dimerocks wrote:

if you're looking for some quality metal check out High on Fire or Pelican.

I always thought Pelican was a very odd choice for a band name...

Per Liefsonson

I suppose if we take to be true that the quality is beginning to resurface, the next question is where is metal going to go next? Are there any major new subgenres akin to NWBHM, the thrash movement and death metal movement beginning to develop or likely to develop, do people think? Or will it be a more gradual development over time by bands who do new takes on the older styles and/or fuse existing genres?

dimerocks

well the yankstriedto have that new wave of american heavy metal but it was just ****e. 36 crazyfists and stuff. I dunno where metal can go really...i think mastodon are doing something different.

John

I went off metal in a big way a while ago. But over the last few years I've been hugely impressed with a lot of new bands and as a result I've gotten back in the groove. Mastodon, Unearthly Trance, OM, Earthride, High on Fire, Khanate, Sunn O))), Xasthur, Leviathan, Jesu, Isis, Lair of the Minotaur and Pelican are all bands I've discovered and have not only rejuvenated my love for metal and expanded my horizons.

gizmo

dimerocks wrote:

well the yankstriedto have that new wave of american heavy metal but it was just ****e. 36 crazyfists and stuff. I dunno where metal can go really...i think mastodon are doing something different.

Em, how about Shadows Fall, Lamb Of God, God Forbid, Chimera and Killswitch Engage...are they all ****e too?

Agent Steel

projectmayhem wrote:

as for gigs, ireland is a wasteland

Stop talking bollocks.

killswitch

i would parcially agree with projectmayhem...ireland is a wasteland for metal gigs....but only if u dont know where to look

for new up-an-coming bands, Eamon Dorans, Voodoo Lounge and Fibbers are all great spots.
for signed metal bands....www.mcd.ie and www.aikenpromotions.com

get searchin ****ers

Agent Steel

I want to know what ye mean by "wasteland", exactly.

dimerocks

Faceless Man wrote:

Em, how about Shadows Fall, Lamb Of God, God Forbid, Chimera and Killswitch Engage...are they all ****e too?

they ain't what i like to be honest. I would class them as instantly forgetable.

CerebralCortex

Necromomicon wrote:

Well 'good' gigs are subjective I guess, but I think we've had a decent enough year. In June we have Guns n Roses, Metallica, Opeth and Down playing within a week of each other. Whether you like them all or not, that's not a bad line-up.

Guns n Roses ain't metal.

dimerocks

CerebralCortex wrote:

Guns n Roses ain't metal.

what was said was that ireland was a wasteland for gigs. I think Necro was just highlighting that its not all that bad when you look at all these bands playing in the same week.

projectmayhem

Necromomicon wrote:

Well 'good' gigs are subjective I guess, but I think we've had a decent enough year. In June we have Guns n Roses, Metallica, Opeth and Down playing within a week of each other. Whether you like them all or not, that's not a bad line-up.

absolutely. that's a great bunch of bands playing over here. now, i'm no fan of GnR but fair play on them coming over.

Agent Steel wrote:

Stop talking bollocks.

i'll try my best, sir.

to quantify my point, a lenghty list of gigs was posted here (not necro's list, they'd be the "big" bands coming this year)... but all of them are pretty much of the same ilk.

in london (may be an unfair comparison, but the crowd is here to go to gigs!) you get a much more varied number of artists, small and large. i want to see nine inch nails, opeth etc. over here. all different bands, doing different things. this country has no variation.

i went to about 2 gigs last year. one of them being fantomas, i don't remember what the other was...

John

London is far, far bigger than Dublin you know. In any case, there's lots of great gigs here, not as many as London but keep your ear to the ground and you'll find them.

DOD Crew

projectmayhem wrote:

absolutely. that's a great bunch of bands playing over here. now, i'm no fan of GnR but fair play on them coming over.



i'll try my best, sir.

to quantify my point, a lenghty list of gigs was posted here (not necro's list, they'd be the "big" bands coming this year)... but all of them are pretty much of the same ilk.

in london (may be an unfair comparison, but the crowd is here to go to gigs!) you get a much more varied number of artists, small and large. i want to see nine inch nails, opeth etc. over here. all different bands, doing different things. this country has no variation.

i went to about 2 gigs last year. one of them being fantomas, i don't remember what the other was...

With respect you are still talking bollocks. Of the two bands you mentioned Opeth are playing here in June and NIN are not currently touring Europe – I believe the did last year and granted that may be an example of a touring band not including Ireland but you’d be surprised the number of factors that come into play when a tour is put together.

As regards variety – and I may be missing quite a few and wrong in others but according to my records the following bands have all played in Ireland since 2004

Desaster
Entombed
Chimaira
Monster Magnet
Soilwork
David Lee Roth
Offspring
Hundred Reasons
The Haunted
Cannibal Corpse
Wildhearts
Secrets of the Moon
Funeral for a Friend
WASP
Hawkwind
Green Carnation
Bad Religion
Incubus
Machine Head
H.I.M
Dillenger Escape Plan
Alice Cooper
Deicide
Dismember
Killswitch
Chmaira
Korn
Anthrax
Metallica
Marillion
The Darkenss
Slough Feg
Obituary
36 Crazyfists
Whitesnake
Krisiun
Behemoth
Incantation
Motorhead
Suffocation
Dissection
Velvet Revolver
Behemoth
Grave
Megadeth
Diamond Head
Officium Triste
Paul Dianno
Hatebreed
Crowbar
Nile
Brocas Helm
Judas Priest
Destruction
Amon Amarth
Pungent Stench
Skyforger
Zyklon
Yngwie Malmsteen
Mudvayne
Slipknot
Slayer
Green Carnation
Fantomas
FFF
My Bloody Valentine
CEPHALIC CARNAGE
Nuclear Assault
Rotting Christ
Marduk
Iron Maiden
Nile
Decapitated
Nevermore
Trivium
Dragonforce
Vital Remains
Disturbed
Fozzy
Deicide
Dio
Steve Vai
Slough Feg
Exodus
Thyrfing
Gorgoroth
Soulfly
Battleroar
Cryptopsy
Hypocrisy
In Flames
Sepultura
Bolt Thrower
Thin Lizzy
Cannibal Corpse
Saxon
Carpathian Forest

What was your point again?

Doctor J

Gentlemen, let us keep it civil and polite, yes? Surely we are all capable of expressing ourselves without the nastiness.

Patricide

When the hell did chimaira play and how the hell did i miss it? God damm i feel like jumping out the window now(of the first story cause i dont like pain)

Beekay

Patricide wrote:

When the hell did chimaira play and how the hell did i miss it? God damm i feel like jumping out the window now(of the first story cause i dont like pain)

around June 24th 2004,with Killswitch,Shadows Fall and God Forbid.If you weren't at that you missed a great gig.

Patricide

O MY GOD ARE YOU SERIOUS, killswitch and god forbid 2, i feel like jumping of the second story now.

OctavarIan

DOD Crew, that's an imressive list. Although I'm only upset that I missed:

Green Carnation
Marillion
Megadeth
Yngwie Malmsteen
STEVE VAI! When did steve vai play here!?

gizmo

OctavarIan wrote:

STEVE VAI! When did steve vai play here!?

Last October in Vicar St. with the exception of an overly long acoustic set it was fantastic.

Ph3n0m

I have to say I think the problem is lack of advertisement for these gigs

a) Most of the gigs are relatively small and are only advertised on websites (if you know of them), word of mouth and also posters (in town and selected shops (Sentinel and Sound Cellar))

b) Most people dont know about these because they cant access any of the information above

c) Most gigs only occur in Dublin - that is a fact, with the exception of some who play Cork or one other city, Dublin is the choice for these bands

d) I remember when I was younger, that I only ever found out about gigs by hanging around record shops and in town - but not everyone can or would do that

Anyone like to add anything else to what I said?

John

DOD Crew wrote:

My Bloody Valentine

Erm, My Bloody Valentine haven't done anything anywhere in over ten years.

Ph3n0m

John2 wrote:

Erm, My Bloody Valentine haven't done anything anywhere in over ten years.

DOD crew could have meant Bullet For My Valentine

John

Ah, that makes more sense. For a second I thought I had missed a My Bloody Valentine gig, I was sweating with dread!

Ph3n0m

John2 wrote:

Ah, that makes more sense. For a second I thought I had missed a My Bloody Valentine gig, I was sweating with dread!

really I sometimes sweat blood or sometimes whiskey....but mostly just man juice

BobTheBeat

Patricide wrote:

O MY GOD ARE YOU SERIOUS, killswitch and god forbid 2, i feel like jumping of the second story now.

Not only that, but they played late the previous year as well, with Everytime I Die! Sickened?!

gizmo

Killswitch played two years in a row?

Oh. My. ****ing. God.

LightofDarkness

My opinion is that the scene has gone stale, and is in danger of becoming stagnant. There's too many bands right now trying to sound like eachother and play from the same blueprint, just paraphrasing slightly because the print proves so solid with "the kids."
This isn't just metalcore mind you, this also goes for brutal death metal. The amount of suffo-clones and Aborted/Cryptopsy alikes is almost laughable. And it's all because it's come down to "if you're playing death metal and want it to be awesome, you need breakdowns, big tech riffs with lots of crazy tangent solos and odd time signatures played while blasting like a drum machine." Now while that stuff's cool and all, it's becoming very over-saturated. Death Metal needs to re-discover it's roots, the first bands didn't know what to play when death metal started, they just had this new idea of metal that they wanted to explore. But people stopped exploring and started trying to sound just like their favourite band. My suggestion is to think of something in your head that you think is death metal and is your own and just run with it. I'm trying to write music like this and it's paying off hugely, just thinking of words I want associated with my music like "crushing, oddly melodic, powerful, volatile." Now other people may have different ways, but it's just an idea.

But this goes for alot of metal. We need new ideas, not rehashes and merged, mutated versions of the old. Use the old as an influence, not a resource of interchangeable ideas to be remoulded into a polished but lifeless patchwork. Some bands do seem to be trying to go elsewhere, but they're just a few (look at Ephel Duath, Continuo Renacer, Lykathea Aflame, Pavor, Ingurgitating Oblivion, Mithras...). I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.

It wasn't me!

I missed a Bad Religion gig?!

Nevyn

Well then make sure you check the upcoming gig threads here and if you hear about a gig post about it there.

JC 2K3

I blame Roadrunner Records and the likes for all these shít commercial metal bands that all sound the same, hell even Opeth are starting to sound like that crap(although I must really listen to Ghost Reveries objectively past the first minute or so of Ghost of Peridition(ugh, sounds like Trivium or some shít like that...)

dimerocks

My problems with RR is there attitude towards bands. They feel that they can drop and stop supporting bands even on their label instantly. I am still sour at their treatment of Sepultura.

John

Well Roadrunner are essentially Universal Music and we all know they have no shame.

Karl Hungus

JC 2K3 wrote:

I blame Roadrunner Records and the likes for all these shít commercial metal bands that all sound the same, hell even Opeth are starting to sound like that crap(although I must really listen to Ghost Reveries objectively past the first minute or so of Ghost of Peridition(ugh, sounds like Trivium or some shít like that...)

Whoah, whoah... whoah... Hold it right there. Get listening to Ghost Reveries sharpish, it's a fantastic album. Granted, Ghost Of Perdition isn't their strongest effort, but there's some absolutely astounding songs on there.

Ph3n0m

Karl Hungus wrote:

Whoah, whoah... whoah... Hold it right there. Get listening to Ghost Reveries sharpish, it's a fantastic album. Granted, Ghost Of Perdition isn't their strongest effort, but there's some absolutely astounding songs on there.

have to agree with KH, its a good album - but by no means the worst album ever

Doctor J

In fairness to Roadrunner, they're a business, they're out to make money, simple as that. They brought a lot of great metal bands to the world back in the day and times have changed and Roadrunner have changed. Big deal. They survived the dark days of the 90's by changing what they sold to reflect what the market wanted at the time. Part of the problem? Sure. Still, if they hadn't they'd probably be as big as Under One Flag or Music For Nations...

Megadeth have just signed to Roadrunner too btw.

Show business, music industry, record company... etc

John

It's not that they have changed their focus but the way that they just dump bands that have given them success at the first sight of them being perhaps not as profitable as they were before. Every label is in business of course but not all businesses have to be jerks to survive. You have to be a jerk to be big but not to survive. Look at Mute records, they have changed a lot over the years but they don't just dump bands because they're not as profitable as they once were. Even now that they're part of EMI they're still a cut above most of the labels out there.

Ph3n0m

plus they are responsible for some of the best reissues in recent times. I direct you to the following

King Diamond - Abigail (RR 25th Anniversary Reissue)
Obituary - Frozen In Time
DevilDriver - The Fury Of Our Maker's Hand
Fear Factory - Demanufacture (RR 25th Anniversary Reissue)
Annihilator - The Best Of Annihilator
King Diamond - Them/Conspiracy
Obituary - The End Complete/World Demise
The Best of Malevolent Creation
Deicide - The Best of Deicide


and loads, loads more

Doctor J

Examples please.

Since Sepultura were the only ones named thus far, my recollection is that they released two fairly low selling albums (Against & Nation) after the years of success. Roorback didn't sell big for SPV either, despite being (IMO) a major return to form.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it's a morally creditable way to conduct your business, but much much worse things go on than being dropped, being shelved for example. A lot of the blame lies with the bands, so desperate to "sign a deal" that they get into frankly stupid contractual situations. That's the music industry.

Roadrunner lost interest in the old school, it wasn't making them money anymore, it's business. Still, plenty of their old bands participated in that 25th anniversary thing they just did so they mustn't be that upset about it.