Wii/360/PS3

sprinkles

So now that we've seen and heard all there is at E3 what is everyone's opinion on the 3 contenders?

Personally I was very impressed with the Wii and the rumoured price means it will probably be the 1st console I buy at launch (not incl the DS).

Sony has priced themselves out of the market IMO. Although I thought that whent he PS2 was released. It will be interesting to see the demand for it when it releases but suffice to say it will be a few years and some quality games before I consider hooking it up to my telly.

The Xbox 360 looks promising. If there is a price drop soon I will def be investing, and I imagine that will prb happen at some stage in Novemeber...

So by the next E3 I'll prob have a 360/Wii (Still sounds weird )

SP

shatners basoon

PS3

Wii for me to be honest, it seems to be gunning for the best line up of launch titles ever, so i think i might also finally get a console at launch.

The PS3 and X-box 360 look impressive graphics wise and all those special features etc. but i can't help feel that the majority of games will be available for both consoles making the Xbox a more obvious choice considering the price.

I don't like Sony's approach to this console, taking everyone else's ideas and gluing them together in one mighty expensive bundle. Of course if you take all the items individually its worth the price but i want a console to play games and pretty much games only, 600 quid is far too much for a games console. However, in a few years or so i'm sure it'll have many triple A titles and i'll probably consider one then.

But for now it'll just be a wii, might buy myself a new tv for it too (but not a HD one!)

Laguna

PS3

I was always going to buy the Wii, but what really impresses me is the (for once) spectacular launch line up (plus the interactivity levels of the controller/wand, hopefully doing what the DS did for me to get me back into gaming).

Juggalo

PS3

Wii for me . It'll also be the very first console I get at launch. I'll also get the XBOX 360 when a price drop happens. I can't see myself owning a PS3 for a long long while.

hairball

Wii

madmike18

Xbox 360

the ps3 is the only console to have blu-ray games now that is just the top of the ice berg with what it can do.

the ps3 has takan so long to make just shows how much effort they have put into it

if the price was 700 i would still pay it.

the console's abilitys have more then all of the other console's put together

the blu ray beats them all alone

the ps3 will be the best next gen console to hit this planet and most people are decided to wait for a price drop

there wont be a price drop the stuff that they have put into it make it more the a console but rather a pc for that matter and has a hardrive that does not have to be bought seperatly

all the stuff inside the machine is worth the 500 smackarooos or the 600 euro one with a 60 gig hard drive

the games will blow so many people's minds they will run put and buy one straight away

altough saying that i would have to say the wii does look pretty ****in brilliant and i will get that at launch aswell

but iam waiting for the xbox 360 to drop in price in better soon

or someone can go see me trading and trade me one Please

jonnybadd

PS3

Wii ftw!

amp

I hope this thread is nice.

Atari Jaguar FTW

rainbow kirby

PS3

Wii.
My reasons:
1. I'm a Nintendo fangirl
2. Zelda and Metroid at launch (see 1.)
3. Most likely a lot cheaper
4. Xbox 360 doesn't have enough games that interest me yet
5. PS3 is stupidly expensive, and again not enough games that interest me (except Final Fantasy 13)

Hugh Hefner

PS3

The Wii for its controller, price and Metroid Prime: Corruption! *rubs niblets*

I might get Twilight Princess too. I never really got into the Zelda games, but I really enjoyed A Link To The Past and what little I played of my friend's Wind Waker.

Kevok

PS3

Already have a 360. Had a great showing at E3 with Gears of War, Fable 2 and Halo3. (pity about Shadowrun though. FPS? C'mon )

Wii was amazing though, it'll become the ultimate party console, and the Smash Bros. announcement just made it all the better. The music in it is being composed by the former Final Fantasy composer, and it will all be orchestrated. I can't wait to hear the Zelda theme on the obligitory Hyrule arena SSBB Trailer

The PS3 though, ugh, it was a trainwreck of epic proportions. The PS3 (IMO) can't do for Bluray what the PS2 did for DVD. There just aren't enough HDTVs in consumer's hands, and driving the price so high by including it was a mistake of epic proportions. I still want to play Heavenly sword, FFXIII and MGS4 though!

Blowfish

PS3

I'm looking forward to be a Wiier as it just looks damn good fun:)

Dont be at yourself

PS3

I`ll be picking up the Wii first. XBox360 has done pretty much nothing to impress me, and the PS3 is far too expensive. I`ll pick one up when the price drops though.

The Gnome

PS3

rainbow kirby wrote:

1. I'm a Nintendo fangirl

rainbow kirby is a girl?!?

[REALITY SHATTERING]

Ciaran500

PS3

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 is the only console to have blu-ray games now that is just the top of the ice berg with what it can do.

And blu ray makes what difference to games?

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 has takan so long to make just shows how much effort they have put into it

Not necessarily a good thing, mabye they were having trouble with it

madmike18 wrote:

the console's abilitys have more then all of the other console's put together

That we have to pay extra for, whether they improve games or not

madmike18 wrote:

the blu ray beats them all alone

Ummm, how?

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 will be the best next gen console to hit this planet and most people are decided to wait for a price drop

LOL

madmike18 wrote:

the games will blow so many people's minds they will run put and buy one straight away

:rolleyes: Nothing I've seen yet has come anywhere near doing that.

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

have 360, prolly get wii first, but ps3 will be bought before the end of 2007 *me hopes for cash*

Matt Simis

PS3

Have a 360 already, great console tho held back by handfull of average games with a few really great ones. Th E3 360 stuff looks great tho.

Wii on the other hand (despite the name that will likely do it some harm), looks great.. that SSBM trailer is brillient!

PS3, cant see how an increased capacity storage medium is going to make it great. Get the feeling a lot of people dont quite know what Blu Ray actually is.. but PS3 really just is missing so many marks and with those ridiculous statements by their Senior Management they are setting themselves up for a fall.


Matt

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

Matt Simis wrote:

Have a 360 already, great console tho held back by handfull of average games with a few really great ones. Th E3 360 stuff looks great tho.

Wii on the other hand (despite the name that will likely do it some harm), looks great.. that SSBM trailer is brillient!

PS3, cant see how an increased capacity storage medium is going to make it great. Get the feeling a lot of people dont quite know what Blu Ray actually is.. but PS3 really just is missing so many marks and with those ridiculous statements by their Senior Management they are setting themselves up for a fall.


Matt

Good point man, but at the end of the day, joe soap gamers will probably just go for the playstation badge tbh. Unless they realise, I could save myself €100-200, and just buy a 360 for gta. But I doubt that will happen-majority of people (especially in Ireland) will go for the brand they know. Playstation is just a huge worldwide symbol.

Gonzo

PS3

I already have my 360 and love it so defo will be looking after a Wii next, no way am i payin 600€ for a ps3.

Stalfos

PS3

wii, love Zelda, not a big fps console fan but metroid, red steel seem like a worthwhile buy. Also SMBB looks totally kickass. Can't wait to KO ppl online with it as well.

event

Ciaran500 wrote:

And blu ray makes what difference to games?

well the disks can hold over then times the amount of data a dvd can, i think

so it should result in bigger games

rainbow kirby

PS3

Stalfos wrote:

wii, love Zelda, not a big fps console fan but metroid, red steel seem like a worthwhile buy. Also SMBB looks totally kickass. Can't wait to KO ppl online with it as well.

I see I'm not the only one who thinks that SSBB is going to be holy-bat****-amazing then
I can see myself losing years to it...

Hugh Hefner

PS3

My friend is already planning his future SMB:Brawl pwning fame.

BOHSBOHS

steady on there EVENT, the initial blu ray discs for ps3 will only be
about 25gb if fully used , (current d-layer dvd bout 9gb)

the higher capacity ones are only in the research stage at the moment afaik

( ah remember when u used to get 10mb games on a 650mb cd ....:rolleyes: )

Simi

Xbox 360

I was most impressed by ps3. But it's far too pricey for me to even consider buying in the short or long term. It really isn't worth €200 more than a 360 just for bluray.

I'd probably go with a 360 if there was a price drop, maybe even if there wasn't. The fact that the 360 will have Halo 3 and GTA IV next year might actually make it worth buying then. I was also impressed by Gears of War and Fable 2.

And i'm not a nintendo fanboy so i probably won't be getting a Wii.

Ciaran500

PS3

event wrote:

well the disks can hold over then times the amount of data a dvd can, i think

so it should result in bigger games

But they don't even use all the space on a DVD 9 and most games still fit on a DVD5. Even GTA: SA and Oblivion two of the biggest recent games were about 4gb each.

zAbbo

PS3

Marketing works I guess, people always search for the bigger and better. If the PS3 has more disk capacity than others, it's got to be the best, right ?

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

zabbo wrote:

Marketing works I guess, people always search for the bigger and better. If the PS3 has more disk capacity than others, it's got to be the best, right ?

For the feeble minded people same type of people who think if something is more expensive, it has to be better.

koneko

PS3

I wasn't impressed by the PS3 this time round. The Wii most definitely, and the 360 I already have, and they showed a few great games in the pipeline for that.

Mossy Monk

i am waititng till they are all out before deciding on which way to go

hairball

event wrote:

well the disks can hold over then times the amount of data a dvd can, i think

so it should result in bigger games

maybe, but not necessarily,the bigger more complex environments that we can see emerging on current gen (pc and x360 anyways) means more work in terms of design, art etc. all of the triple A titles from now on are only going to have to push that further if they truly want to impress the graphics hungry people, that means more work for artists and level designers and a longer development time, this doesn't exactly mean bigger (as in longer) stroylines tho.
As phil Harrison said (on blu ray) the extra capacity means more complex and bigger textures can be stored on these disks, i'm sure he's alluding to the fact that it also means bigger games but i still have a feeling that, while the majority of games for the next gen will look a lot better, and may be be more immersive because they look a lot better ,still won't be that much bigger in terms of feasible story length than what we have at the moment.
Unless of course the studios are willing to spend upwards of 3 years on a game,and have the budget and people needed.

Ciaran500

PS3

But disc space isn't the reason textures are compressed and are limited in what size they can be. If that was the case we'de be seeing PC games come on multiple DVD's

The higher qulaity these texturs/sounds/enviroments are the more RAM they need and the longer it takes to load these into the RAM and process them.

Hugh Hefner

PS3

Simi wrote:

And i'm not a nintendo fanboy so i probably won't be getting a Wii.

You really think that's the only reason to get a Wii?

Smellyirishman

PS3

Lower end model of PS3 HDD non-upgradeable AND lacks bluetooth controller support? Among others...

Article (Take it all with a pinch of salt, infact, I am 99% sure it's not fact)

Offical word, guess the article is BS

hairball

Ciaran500 wrote:

But disc space isn't the reason textures are compressed and are limited in what size they can be. If that was the case we'de be seeing PC games come on multiple DVD's

The higher qulaity these texturs/sounds/enviroments are the more RAM they need and the longer it takes to load these into the RAM and process them.

good point.. but that wasn't all of my point, i simply mean bigger game with bigger story and more environments = more people or more dev time or both..I work as a designer(not for games) and it's simple math bigger the job longer the design time

po0k

PS3

whee

Neither of the other two interest me. I don't have 2K to buy a proper TV. I'd rather see more of this planet with the money tbh.

P3s is fncked in my eyes. X360 isn't a whole lot better. Same sh1t, prettier graphics. I have my PC for 'serious' gaming, modded xbox (and soon GC) for pricking about with homebrew scene releases, and soon the wii for casual gaming.

The Revolution Will Not Be In HiDef

rip2roar

Atari Jaguar

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 is the only console to have blu-ray games now that is just the top of the ice berg with what it can do.

You do know that this is the reason Sony can only supply 5000 consoles to Ireland on launch and 50,000 to England?Blue-Ray shortages and technical difficulties.Plus, do you even know what Blue-Ray does?

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 has takan so long to make just shows how much effort they have put into it

So did the 360 and the Wii.
Do you know why the PS3 is coming out in November?It would have come out last November but Sony had so many problems with Blue-Ray that it was delayed to Spring, and now Q4 of 2006 because of Blue-Ray problems.

madmike18 wrote:

if the price was 700 i would still pay it.

Well then you are a very silly person.For 700 you could buy a 360 and a Wii.With that you would get two different playing experiences and a choice of a wider range of games.Looking at the Ps3's menu and dashboard it has just been lifted from the PSP, I woudn't pay that for something where everything isnt entirely innovative

madmike18 wrote:

the console's abilitys have more then all of the other console's put together

Are you serious?Back this thoery up somehow.Oh wow, it has three more USB ports!Another Ethernet port and the ever troublesome BLUE-RAY!

madmike18 wrote:

the blu ray beats them all alone

You have to be joking?Have you been misinformed?
Many games dont even fill half the disc of a DVD 9Gig

madmike18 wrote:

the ps3 will be the best next gen console to hit this planet and most people are decided to wait for a price drop

How do you know this?How can you possibly say it will be the best at this current time without being influence by fanboyism.The Xbox 360 beats it on the power and proccessing front and the Wii on interactivity.Wouldnt you love to get two consoles for the same price as one?

madmike18 wrote:

there wont be a price drop the stuff that they have put into it make it more the a console but rather a pc for that matter and has a hardrive that does not have to be bought seperatly
e

But the HD cannot be removed can it?
Wouldnt someone rather buy the 360 and get the new 60Gig Hard-drive coming out this month?Price:€450(€300+€150)Beats the Ps3's lower priced deal.

madmike18 wrote:

all the stuff inside the machine is worth the 500 smackarooos or the 600 euro one with a 60 gig hard drive

So it is in the 360 but not in the Wii.The Wii is not worth €250.It should be worth more.

madmike18 wrote:

the games will blow so many people's minds they will run put and buy one straight away

Ha, you now have to be joking?Have you been brainwashed by the CGI and FMV?Go look at the Downhill game.Changed a bit since last E3 right?The 360 has better graphical power and is only beaten by the Ps3 on Floating Terraflops.The amount of triangles that can be put on screen.The Wii has the power to blow peoples minds.

madmike18 wrote:

altough saying that i would have to say the wii does look pretty ****in brilliant and i will get that at launch aswell

Theres a good Playstation fanboy

madmike18 wrote:

but iam waiting for the xbox 360 to drop in price in better soon

Let me get this straight, you are willing to buy a Ps3 for 700 but not a 360 for €300 or €400?



I have a 360 and will get a Wii.If I have enough I'll get the Ps3 also but just so I can get a few games like another ICO sequel or God of War

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

hairball wrote:

good point.. but that wasn't all of my point, i simply mean bigger game with bigger story and more environments = more people or more dev time or both..I work as a designer(not for games) and it's simple math bigger the job longer the design time

And you think developers, (mainly multiplatform developers) are gonna spend more time on the ps3 version, adding more content to games, purely because they can? fu€k no. The dvd format is still more than enough for games to fit. Blu-ray has almost no significance, and even 2-3 years down the road, will you think looking back, that the blu-ray selling point was worth the hype? I doubt it tbh.

hairball

Irish GrumPy wrote:

And you think developers, (mainly multiplatform developers) are gonna spend more time on the ps3 version, adding more content to games, purely because they can? fu€k no. The dvd format is still more than enough for games to fit. Blu-ray has almost no significance, and even 2-3 years down the road, will you think looking back, that the blu-ray selling point was worth the hype? I doubt it tbh.

..exactly....i dunno, maybe it's a good thing in the sense that barring first party and system exclusives, the third party developers will need to think harder about porting from one console to another given that each of the next gen machines are so different this time around...ah who am i kidding?, we're still gonna end up with the same lazy ports from third parties with little gimmicks such as half arsed compatability with the wii controller shoehorned in.
This also means tho that the one with the best exclusive content is gonna be the one that walks away with the sales, this time more than ever i reckon.

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

hairball wrote:

..exactly....i dunno, maybe it's a good thing in the sense that barring first party and system exclusives, the third party developers will need to think harder about porting from one console to another given that each of the next gen machines are so different this time around...ah who am i kidding?, we're still gonna end up with the same lazy ports from third parties with little gimmicks such as half arsed compatability with the wii controller shoehorned in.
This also means tho that the one with the best exclusive content is gonna be the one that walks away with the sales, this time more than ever i reckon.

multiformat games will be alot different this time around, all consoles so different like you said, wii controller will cause difficulties, as will the no-rumble (LOL) and 6 points of tilt ps3 pad. Interesting times ahead.

awhir

Atari Jaguar

me get 360 when able to chip it

GrumPy

Atari Jaguar

awhir wrote:

me get 360 when able to chip it

they already have a hack.

No homebrew software or games, but you can play backups. The hack involves reflashing the dvd drives firmware to bypass the mediaflag and xbe security on each gamedisc.

Kristok

PS3

I love the way a few months ago everyone pretty much expected to ps3 to come along and kill off the other consoles and now the 360 looks like its going to be very hard to catch up with assuming they can meet their 10m terget before the ps3 gets into the shops. The fact that people where queing to get into the nintendo stand and not the sony one at e3 is hilerious.

Now all the fan boys can talk about is blu ray as if it was some how able to do something amazing, like swaping a second disc into the 360 was some how impossible or running it all off the hard drive couldnt be done.

At this point the ps3 is looking like times are going to be tough and imo its going to go the same way as the psp is with the ds, pushing a rubbish format that noone is really bothered with and getting beaten by an inferior console graphics wise with better titles.

I see the 360 and the wii co exist both aimed at different markets and sony gonig the way of all the other unstopable console makers of the past, atari, commadore, sega etc. Being number one in the games market has always led to big problems trying to keep on top and sonys financial problems as a whole mean it no longer has the money to just dump in and buy its way into market share in the way microsoft are able.

IceHawk

Xbox 360

Wii.
Would have gone for the PS3 but christ! 600 big ones? Way too much to pay for a games console.
Nintendo seem to be the only people actively innovating and encouraging new types of games. I've also always felt slightly guilty for never owning a Mario game.

stevenmu

Xbox 360

For me it's going to be a PS3, it is the most expensive by a long way, but it offers much more value to me at least.

Despite what many people say Blu-Ray is an important feature for me, it probably won't make a huge difference for games, certainly not for a few years, but it will for movies. I don't have a HDTV yet, but I will in the next 2/3 years and when I do I'll have a HD player sitting there ready to go without having to buy any add-ons. Also it'll play movies at the full 1080p and reportedly the x360 add-on will only handle 720p ?

The biggest feature for me, assuming it is still going to be included, will be the ability to run Linux on it. Assuming it does come with Linux and it's fully open to installing new and homebrew software, the PS3 will act as a fully featured PC. This ability is something none of the others can touch. Combining this with the upgradeable hard disc, or USB attached drives, network connectivity and a TV and surround speakers it'll make for a very powerfull media PC fitting nicely into the sitting room.

And on top of all that, the games should be pretty good too

Ramses

PS3

Nintendo for me but I would consider an Xbox360 down the line.

rip2roar

Atari Jaguar

stevenmu wrote:

For me it's going to be a PS3, it is the most expensive by a long way, but it offers much more value to me at least.

Despite what many people say Blu-Ray is an important feature for me, it probably won't make a huge difference for games, certainly not for a few years, but it will for movies. I don't have a HDTV yet, but I will in the next 2/3 years and when I do I'll have a HD player sitting there ready to go without having to buy any add-ons. Also it'll play movies at the full 1080p and reportedly the x360 add-on will only handle 720p ?

The biggest feature for me, assuming it is still going to be included, will be the ability to run Linux on it. Assuming it does come with Linux and it's fully open to installing new and homebrew software, the PS3 will act as a fully featured PC. This ability is something none of the others can touch. Combining this with the upgradeable hard disc, or USB attached drives, network connectivity and a TV and surround speakers it'll make for a very powerfull media PC fitting nicely into the sitting room.

And on top of all that, the games should be pretty good too

The 360 HD-DVD add-on will cost €100 and will run 420p,720i,1080i and then 720p.

In case you do not know, 720p is better than 1080i.Next is 1080p.But alas, unless you are willing to buy a tv worth €6000 you are not going to get 1080p.1/67(TeamPlanet did researched) HDTV's have it.Also, Blue-Ray movies?HD-DVD's are already beating Blue-Ray,you wont have every movie.Already over 20 production companys have vowed to support HD-DVD while Blue-Ray stands at 5.One of which being Sony themselves.The Blue-Ray in film terms will suffer the fate of the UMD in the next three or four years.It will lose support.

Also regards the Ps3's linux, you will have to hack it in order to load homebrew software to it.It is limited.

This was also just announced regarding the availability of Ps3s in Ireland and Britain

Sony won't be releasing the 20GB version of its PS3 when the console launches in the UK and Ireland on 17 November, according to one high street retailer.

Sony announced at its E3 conference on Monday that it would be launching its PS2 successor in two different versions - a premium, 60GB hard drive package and a less expensive 20GB version that, in addition to the smaller storage device, would also lack some key features.

However, while UK and Irish games store gamestation is already offering pre-orders for Sony's new machine, its customers are only able to put a holding deposit down on the more expensive 60GB model, which it has marked up at a price of £425(€599).

When we contacted gamestation to ask why it wasn't taking pre-orders for the 20GB deal, we were told in no uncertain terms that it was because Sony wouldn't be releasing the slightly more wallet-friendly bundle in the UK and Ireland.

We weren't offered any explanation as to why the 20GB would be unavailable, so we'll just have to wait for Monday morning when Sony will hopefully throw some light on the matter.

What I like about the Ps3?Surfing the net on the console.Nice addition.There is a survey on Xbox.com at the moment asking would you like this for the 360!
Wii for me.

steviec

Atari Jaguar

Well I already have a 360 and I'm very happy with it, I know I'm going to buy the other two aswell though, althought probably not at launch.

All the consoles have good and bad points.

Live, the Marketplace and the Media Centre features are huge to the 360. The others are trying to copy them but neither have the sort of infrastructure Microsoft have and obviously the sort of Vista integration MS are planning is simply impossible for anyone else to match. As of right now they have the strongest library of games looking forward too, but thats to be expected with the head start they have. In the long run they could once again fall behind Sony in third party support from Japan and there is a danger that the 360 could get shown up as technically inferior to the PS3 in some games, particularly in terms of storage, also in terms of what the joypad can do and maybe in terms of processing power, although that will take time to be determined.

Sony have a mountain to climb after the price announcement and the amount of bad press they've been getting. However the PS2 was far more expensive than its competition and it never hurt. Sony have some of the most talented in house games developers in the world, some very popular established franchises and a huge number of loyal customers. Their joypad looks fantastic and could give them an edge over MS depending on what developers do with it, and the same goes for the Cell and Blu Ray. Their E3 press conference was poor, but they've a lot of time before launch and at the end of the day, regardless of hardware, its all about the games and thats where Sony have always delivered best.

Then the Wii is a completely different proposition. I'm less enticed by it now than I was before E3. The controller can potentially open up new types of gameplay, but the best game Nintendo had to show for it was a Gamecube game with gesture recognition replacing buttons. That's not a revolution. The new Mario game sounds great though, and the new Monkey Ball is perfectly suited to the controller. Other than that there seemed to be too many gimmicks for my liking. Hopefully there'll be some more interesting titles announced in future that really take advantage of the controller instead of a mixture of short lived gimmicks and shoe-horning it into genres that were always designed for a joypad.

At E3, both Nintendo and Microsoft impressed while Sony lost the PR war. But when you read past the headlines there's a lot of very positive hands on reports about the PS3 and I do feel the anticipation will really start to build over the coming months. It'll be this time next year before anywone can make real predictions.

Ciaran500

PS3

rip2roar wrote:

The 360 HD-DVD add-on will cost €100 and will run 420p,720i,1080i and then 720p.

Any source?

steviec

Atari Jaguar

rip2roar wrote:

Sony won't be releasing the 20GB version of its PS3 when the console launches in the UK and Ireland on 17 November, according to one high street retailer.

Sony announced at its E3 conference on Monday that it would be launching its PS2 successor in two different versions - a premium, 60GB hard drive package and a less expensive 20GB version that, in addition to the smaller storage device, would also lack some key features.

However, while UK and Irish games store gamestation is already offering pre-orders for Sony's new machine, its customers are only able to put a holding deposit down on the more expensive 60GB model, which it has marked up at a price of £425(€499).

When we contacted gamestation to ask why it wasn't taking pre-orders for the 20GB deal, we were told in no uncertain terms that it was because Sony wouldn't be releasing the slightly more wallet-friendly bundle in the UK and Ireland.

We weren't offered any explanation as to why the 20GB would be unavailable, so we'll just have to wait for Monday morning when Sony will hopefully throw some light on the matter.

This is stating that we're getting the premium pack for €499 over here? That would be fantastic news if true.

Ciaran500

PS3

£425 = €622 so I doubt we will get it for €500