Sin Episodes is out

Zombrex

Downloaded the first episode in the Sin sequel last night.

While the graphics are interesting, using the HL2 Source engine, and the characters are well animated, it isn't the most impressive FPS i've ever played. It still seems to be sticking with the tried and tested system of shoot some bad guys, walk a bit forward, door opens bad guys run out, you shoot them

Haven't gotten very far (I hope), still on the tanker level. On the plus side you get to see the lovely Alexis Sinclair in a tiny bikini with fully Havok physic engine powered breasts. Technology is wonderful

Anyone else played it yet?

madrab

Wicknight wrote:

Downloaded the first episode in the Sin sequel last night.

While the graphics are interesting, using the HL2 Source engine, and the characters are well animated, it isn't the most impressive FPS i've ever played. It still seems to be sticking with the tried and tested system of shoot some bad guys, walk a bit forward, door opens bad guys run out, you shoot them

Haven't gotten very far (I hope), still on the tanker level. On the plus side you get to see the lovely Alexis Sinclair in a tiny bikini with fully Havok physic engine powered breasts. Technology is wonderful

Anyone else played it yet?

[sad]i loved THAT scene in the original game, the one on the security camera in the hidden room[/sad]

Zombrex

madrab wrote:

[sad]i loved THAT scene in the original game, the one on the security camera in the hidden room[/sad]

Never played the first game? I assume you see "boobage"

sAid

awesome

madrab

not quite, but it is still "interesting"

Laguna

Argh that's a shame, I was hoping it wouldn't be another generic FPS but it seems to have fallen that way. I guess I'll just have to pin my hopes on HL:Episode 1 for my FPS pleasure.

tHE vAGGABOND

while it is a bit FPS by the numbers, its good fun..

the source engine bell's and whistles dont do any harm at all either tbh

$20 and I got the whole first game too [which I never played] - so its a bit of a bargin tbh

8T8

I've been playing it a bit and yeah it fun enough worth a look at least by anyone not sure.

Although the HL2 stuttering problems are back in this game & unfortuantely I have them. But they are aware of it on the forums and have said there are working on a fix by updating the Source code base to a more recent version which I presume has the stutter fix for HL2. Although how they didn't encounter it is a mystery to me before the game came out.

The dynamic difficulty system is interesting alright & offers a good challenge for experienced players plus there are lots of secrets in the game which offers some re-playability, the dopefish makes an appearance as well as one.

BLITZ_Molloy

Frankly I thought HL2 could have done with more bread and butter, walk into a room, shoot some guys, gameplay. It was very slow paced compared to HL1, Quake 2 or most of the other classic singleplayer FPS games. I also thought the weapons were absolutely rubbish.

What are the Sin guns like?

bizmark

lol its only like 4 hours long what a rip off

Zombrex

bizmark wrote:

lol its only like 4 hours long what a rip off

Six actually. The idea is that you pay €20 for an experience a third of the length of a full €60 game (ie 18 hours long). Of course there will be more episodes, I think there are 9 or something in total, so you will end up paying €180 for a game thats nearly 60 hours total.

Its just another way of selling the same old stuff.

Not really a rip off, but it does mean you can't buy the total game at any discount price. I like a lot of people, rarely buy packaged games full price, I wait for them to be reduced in price (got Splinter Cell 3 for €7 a few weeks back, nice). I doubt that this is going to happen with games sold on Steam.

But on the other hand wouldn't you rather pay €20 to find out a game is crap, than €50 or €60 and only complete the first third before you toss it in the bin?

What will be very interesting to see is how many people buy the next episode. The whole episode system might have the effect where designers are forced to increase standards of quality and invention or they simply don't get gamers willing to continue on the series.

Time will tell. We live in interesting times

Retr0gamer

Only came to a little less than 18 euro for me. Thats a lot less than a budget game so not really a rip off. Now if only my brother would stop turning off steam so that I can actually download and play the thing.

bizmark

Six actually

Includeing areas you/me get stuck in over all its around 4 hour's

I think there are 9 or something in total, so you will end up paying €180 for a game thats nearly 60 hours total ....

Its just another way of selling the same old stuff.

Not really a rip off,

Pritty sure the last 60 hour long game i bought cost me 40 euro so its a total unbeliveable rip off.

But on the other hand wouldn't you rather pay €20 to find out a game is crap, than €50 or €60 and only complete the first third before you toss it in the bin?

Thats what eurogamer and demos are for and they are free.

Zombrex

bizmark wrote:

Thats what eurogamer and demos are for and they are free.

Er, so why didn't you wait for the review before you bought the game?

bizmark

Wicknight wrote:

Er, so why didn't you wait for the review before you bought the game?

I didnt buy it im relieing on info from a friend and reader writen reviews on sites like gamespot

8T8

bizmark look at it this way a game like SiN:Emergence would never had been made if it weren't for a online distribution system and episodic content.

It takes a lot of money and time to put together games with 20+ hours of game play and publishers are increasingly risk averse and not willing to fund to such games not based on guaranteed return franchises. SiN:Emergence is done entirely by Ritual with no third party publisher funding it's development. Somewhat ironically the buzz around the new SiN game has meant some publishers actually wanting to sell a retail version.

For what €20 I don't think that's OMG outrageous and if you didn't like the first episode there is no need to buy any more after that.

I for one was looking forward to another SiN game and so far I've been pleased with it if episodic content is the way to go and keeps the developer in business then so be it I'll pay the 20 bucks as long as I'm entertained.

Retr0gamer

Hope we get wages of Sin with the next episode.

SirLemonhead

It's fun enough, headshotting with the pistol is always enjoyable.

Reminds me how ****e the Source engine is though.

bizmark

8T8 wrote:

bizmark look at it this way a game like SiN:Emergence would never had been made if it weren't for a online distribution system and episodic content.

It takes a lot of money and time to put together games with 20+ hours of game play and publishers are increasingly risk averse and not willing to fund to such games not based on guaranteed return franchises. SiN:Emergence is done entirely by Ritual with no third party publisher funding it's development. Somewhat ironically the buzz around the new SiN game has meant some publishers actually wanting to sell a retail version.

For what €20 I don't think that's OMG outrageous and if you didn't like the first episode there is no need to buy any more after that.

I for one was looking forward to another SiN game and so far I've been pleased with it if episodic content is the way to go and keeps the developer in business then so be it I'll pay the 20 bucks as long as I'm entertained.

The only thing that’s progress about this whole endeavor is the online distribution that’s it to get 20 hours of game play out of sin (average length of a game i think you will agree?) you will need to buy 4 episode which = 60-80 euro that is at lest 20 euro more expensive than nearly any new pc game you can buy from play.com at the moment that isn’t progress that’s just a new way to rip you off and what’s more they are ripping you off while lowering their own over heads i don’t understand how you can possible support this worrying new trend that valve is pushing.

Retr0gamer

The game is getting a bit silly now. The Sintek soldiers are frustrating really frustrating and no fun at all. Awful lack of variety as well

madrab

wow osunds like retro is havein a change of heart

BLITZ_Molloy

I don't get people measuring value in terms of how many hours it takes to complete. Who gives a **** about single playthroughs. If the game is good you'll play it a few times. If it's not good then it doesn't matter how long it is.

Lord Oz

It seems very repetitive. Shoot bad guys, run into next room, shoot bad guys...
It's not a bad game at all, just so far doesn't really seem to have been worth the €20. The engine is the usual source ****e aswell.

BLITZ_Molloy

What is it you dislike about the Source engine out of curiosity?

bizmark

BLITZ_Molloy wrote:

I don't get people measuring value in terms of how many hours it takes to complete. Who gives a **** about single playthroughs. If the game is good you'll play it a few times. If it's not good then it doesn't matter how long it is.

It wouldnt matter if it only cost like 10 euro

Retr0gamer

Was enjoying it until those annoying sintek soldiers were introduced towards the end. I haven't seen fun being sapped out of a game since the ubersoldiers appeared in Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I was enjoying it up to that point. Still it's nothing special at all. You just have to keep moving from samey setpiece to the next. The fact that i'm enjoying the ancient orignal more says a lot. They really didn't change the engine much and loads of the textures are ripped from HL2.

What I'm really annoyed about is that hte highway chase and shoot out were not in the final game. The PCGamer review code had this level (i think).

KdjaCL

8T8 wrote:

bizmark look at it this way a game like SiN:Emergence

Umm what about paying 180 for a game that gets you 60 hours or 50 for GTA /Oblivion/Zelda/Mario that get you 60 hours play, the last 2 not having as much content or plot as the 1st 2 but still 60 hours.



kdjac

Retr0gamer

I paid 45 euros for Shadow of the Colossus and it was beaten in 7 hours. I love that game more than my family at times.*

*Just ignore the fact that I've beaten it another 3 times and my argument makes sense

SirLemonhead

BLITZ_Molloy wrote:

What is it you dislike about the Source engine out of curiosity?

It's totally outdated technology. Looks crap, performance is crap, bugs upon bugs upon bugs, and level loading is so damn slow.

SirLemonhead

I havent played it since killing the first boss (piece of cake)

Used up all my damn ammo though except for the shotgun, and I can't take out those chaingunners with the shotgun (I think its useless, been using the pistol more or less all the time so far)

Patch out soonish to fix the auto difficulty adjuster..

Ciaran500

MasterOfSolos wrote:

It's totally outdated technology. Looks crap, performance is crap, bugs upon bugs upon bugs, and level loading is so damn slow.

I'm getting a steady 65-75fps through out, loding is about on par with any other game out there and do you not think bugs are a developer problem rather than source engine?


Anyway looks good to me

Mad Mike

I haven't downloaded it yet - I'm still coming down from WOW and using healthy doses of Far Cry and Oblivion as methadone. However I do have some thoughts on the economics of episodic gaming:

1. If as suggested previously it encourages game producers to produce better quality games in order to hold their audience them I am all for it. If this becomes commonplace I expect it will become a bit like pilots for new TV shows. If sales don't materialise the series will be cancelled after a couple of episodes.

2. I do feel the price point of nearly €20 for a 6 hour episode is too high. My gut feeling is that €10 would be a more sustainable level. People happily pay €5 to rent a 1.5 hour movie and I think twice that for a 6 hour game would be attractive but 4 times that puts it beyond the level of an impulse entertainment purchase (for me anyway).

3. I too am an avid consumer of discount games and I will be dissapointed if this innovation kills them off. However I doubt it will. Once an episode becomes old there will be pressure on the distributors to lower the price. In fact the episodic nature of the games guarantees obsolescence. When later episodes come out there will be a lot of presure on the distribs to lower the price of earlier episodes in order to attract new followers to the series.

Sgt. Politeness

MasterOfSolos wrote:

It's totally outdated technology. Looks crap, performance is crap, bugs upon bugs upon bugs, and level loading is so damn slow.

woah woah woah woah woah....woah. woah?? WTF? Source engine looks crap? I suspect the problem here is that youre actually playing the original SIN game and going 'bloody hell this source engine is sh!te'. Fire up HL2, take alook at Alyxs facial expressions, take a walk around city 17, play some day of defeat source, goo 'ooh' and 'aah' over the HDR on maps like argentan or donner, and THEN tell me the source engine sucks. Its one of the best, if not THE best, engines out there atm.

Zombrex

Not sure about this whole dynamic difficulty system

Initially I thought it sounded good, and it played well I was finding the game a good challange when most FPS these days you play through once without ever dying.

But now it is taking me like 30 minutes and 10 quick saves to move through each fecking room. As Retro says those chain gunning SinTek soldiers are so fecking annoying, because you can unload your entire set of ammo on them and they still stand.

SirLemonhead

Sgt. Politeness wrote:

woah woah woah woah woah....woah. woah?? WTF? Source engine looks crap? I suspect the problem here is that youre actually playing the original SIN game and going 'bloody hell this source engine is sh!te'. Fire up HL2, take alook at Alyxs facial expressions, take a walk around city 17, play some day of defeat source, goo 'ooh' and 'aah' over the HDR on maps like argentan or donner, and THEN tell me the source engine sucks. Its one of the best, if not THE best, engines out there atm.

I've played pretty much ever FPS game out there. I'm not going to get confused

Besides, they're practically the same game anyway, with Source being based on the Quake/Quake2 code

SirLemonhead

Ciaran500 wrote:

I'm getting a steady 65-75fps through out, loding is about on par with any other game out there and do you not think bugs are a developer problem rather than source engine?


Anyway looks good to me

It stutters all the damn time for me, going into new areas and the like. It's a problem a whole lot of people have had with the engine over the various source titles.

Half life 2 has tons of things wrong with it, as did CS Source ( that game gave me a huge amount of grief...moreso than BF2 does )
It looks too cartoony for my liking. I dont think it looks realistic at all. Which is fine, but I wish people would stop saying it was realistic.

tba

MasterOfSolos wrote:

Source being based on the Quake/Quake2 code

Really?

I guess that why it runs so good on my ancient wind up PC

SirLemonhead

tba wrote:

Really?

I guess that why it runs so good on my ancient wind up PC

Ok well, very loosely. Don't listen to Valve when they say its a complete re-write. The whole engine is very similar to Quake, right down to the smallest details (same texture used to represent a missing texture, the purple and black one)

To me, it's like Quake2 but with higher resolution textures. It has the exact same lighting (except for stuff like HDR which is tacked on) and even has the same clipping problems as the Quake engines.

Notice how the tie on the old guy at the docks kept half disappearing inside his chest?

Half life 2 had tons of it too, shadow rendering problems, and Strider legs poking through concrete walls.

Ciaran500

Yeah, why listen to the people who actually wrote the engine :rolleyes: The engine is a complete re write, anything like the purple and black texture could of just been carried over from HL1 and isn't proof that its in any way based off it.

Every game has clipping problems, make no difference to gameplay and weren't that common in HL2.

SirLemonhead

Ciaran500 wrote:

Yeah, why listen to the people who actually wrote the engine :rolleyes:

Because all the evidence points otherwise?

Even John Carmack said it in an interview a few months ago...

Ciaran500

You really have to start putting more into your posts, all what evidence?

SirLemonhead

Ciaran500 wrote:

You really have to start putting more into your posts, all what evidence?

You'd really need to look yourself. Otherwise, dont concern yourself with it.

Still no sign of that patch, Ritual said this weekend though so I guess it'll be out later...

Ciaran500

I did look and couldn't find any, hence why I asked for the evidence you apparently had.

SirLemonhead

Ciaran500 wrote:

I did look and couldn't find any, hence why I asked for the evidence you apparently had.

I'm lazy and don't care enough to do all the work myself, besides, it's sorta dragging the post off topic.

Gateway

This is a better link
http://www.latexlair.com/

Sgt. Politeness

UNF!!!!!

madrab

good ole slydice creeping into every forum

L31mr0d

Ok well that ended abruptly. I was just getting into it and then it just ended. I don't like this whole episodic gaming crap. It seems more geared to benefit the companies making the games rather than the gamers. Sometimes I like to be able to just play a game and play it all the way through in one or two sittings. Like Quake 4, I did 2 stints over a weekend and had it done. Whereas SiN? Had it finished before breakfast... now what?

The game is very repetitive, the graphics are dated in that they look like too much like HL2. Funnily enough, my girlfriend seen me playing HL2, then FEAR, then GRAW.. she looked over my shoulder playing SiN and said "that game looks a bit old doesn't it?"

Things like the textures on the cardboard boxes being the same as HL2 bothered me, and the whole phone boxes all over the place with numbers to call where pointless. Its funny because there really isn't many things I disliked about this game, I liked the melee attacks that where missing from HL2, the ability to hold guns up to aim like CoD2, the ability to slow things down with the gas like FEAR, the fighting of bosses at certain points like Quake4... but there was just something missing? It wasn't original, there was nothing new, the gameplay wasn't better and besides the blatant/excellent/uneeded teenage boy aimed CG Bikini scene nothing of interest about the game. It felt like playing a mod of HL2 that somebody threw together in their spare time.