What is going on?

Valmont

I'm new on the forum and would anyone like to explain the working of the Athiesm/agnosticism viewpoint?

I am an athiest true and true but I don't really understand what you represent when you say you are an athiest.

Any unwritten rules I should be aware of?

(i deleted my original post, in retrospect in was slightly impetuous and spontaneous, I freak out a lot)

edited blank

-fair enough o.o

Valmont

sorry bluewolf, I had to delete my original thread. It was a bit intense for a first post!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

You can have Christmas, Honnukah and whatever other nice parties you want, and don't have to give of your time to some organised meeting every week. WHat more could you want.

Scofflaw

The Atheist is the "fool who has said in his heart - there is no God".

Atheism denies the existence of God(s). Agnosticism doubts the existence of God(s). Monotheism, of course, denies the existence of all Gods except one.

A lot of agnostics are effectively atheists but consider actual denial to be logically untenable.

There are a lot of pseudo-atheists who pretend to deny God the better to rebel against religious parents, but those are usually weeded out at the first major (indeed, minor) traumatic life event.

What makes you ask? After all, if you don't "really understand what you represent when you say you are an atheist" then (no offence is meant!) how do you know you are one?


cordially,
Scofflaw

Valmont

Scofflaw wrote:

What makes you ask? After all, if you don't "really understand what you represent when you say you are an atheist" then (no offence is meant!) how do you know you are one?


cordially,
Scofflaw

None taken, I know that athiests deny the existence of God and that agnostics say that you just can't know. When I say I don't know what they represent, is it teenage angst? rebellion? pomousness? another reason to call yourself an intellectuual? Because any 'athiest/agnostic' I have had the displeasure of encountering fall into the above categories. I would like to represent common sense and the greater good but it seems a lot of people get caught up in the act of being an athiest and forget what it is they represent!

So, to correct my statement, what do the athiest/agnostic group on boards represent?

Beruthiel

Valmont wrote:

When I say I don't know what they represent, is it teenage angst? rebellion? pomousness? another reason to call yourself an intellectuual? Because any 'athiest/agnostic' I have had the displeasure of encountering fall into the above categories.

Perhaps if you are a teenager then some of the above maybe true.
For us 'grown ups' personally speaking, the decision came after a long and thoughtful process.
I am agnostic, ie - I don't believe in any god but nor do I think myself so all knowing that I can just dismiss the fact that maybe there is something greater out there. I will of course require solid proof that 'he' exists, until then I shall remain ever the doubter and don't believe in anything other than being as good a person as I can and living by my own moral code.

So, to correct my statement, what do the athiest/agnostic group on boards represent?

we represent ourselves, in all our different and wonderful ways.

Dades

Welcome Valmont.

Valmont wrote:

any 'athiest/agnostic' I have had the displeasure of encountering fall into the above categories. what do the athiest/agnostic group on boards represent?

It think the first point you have to note here is that atheists/agnostics do not represent something in the way that theists do. There is no shared meaning "way of life" or secret handshake. The only thing they have in common is a lack of belief in declared gods.

As Scoff mentions there are plenty of psuedo-atheists about that no doubt cloud the water. The point is that a genuine atheist does not "declare" themselves due to teenage angst or rebellion, but because they do not, and cannot believe in the existence of manmade gods. True belief should never an issue of choice.

In short, how somebody acts as an atheist/agnostic, is purely their business.

robindch

> I don't really understand what you represent when you say you are an athiest.

Well, as an atheist, you don't really represent anything other than yourself, since (unlike religion) atheism is not an identity issue, despite what some religious people would have you believe. Many atheists will also hold humanist beliefs, so that might be worth checking that out if you want to pin down more about what's a typical worldview for atheists. The Irish Humanists live at:

http://www.irish-humanists.org/

Asiaprod

[QUOTE=Valmont
]When I say I don't know what they represent, is it teenage angst? rebellion? pomousness? another reason to call yourself an intellectuual? Because any 'athiest/agnostic' I have had the displeasure of encountering fall into the above categories. [/QUOTE]

Hi Valmont. Just to confuse the issue even further for you:)
I am a Buddhist, yet I am an Atheist as I do not believe any God, and an Agnostic as I do believe that there is a higher purpose for man(women)kind which has nothing to do with any God. I would like to think that I, along with all the other members here, do exhibit common sense and represent good. And, as Beruthiel pointed out so eloquently, We represent ourselves in all our different and wonderful ways.

Zombrex

Asiaprod wrote:

We represent ourselves in all our different and wonderful ways.

And we all own swords apparently ...

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

And we all own swords apparently ...

How very true, and some of us have more than one! That has got to mean something, but damned if I know what.

Scofflaw

Asiaprod wrote:

How very true, and some of us have more than one! That has got to mean something, but damned if I know what.

Good point! Valmont, do you own a sword? If not, you're probably an agnostic.


cordially,
Scofflaw

I think swords are pretty and want one, can I play too

Valmont

Beruthiel wrote:

we represent ourselves, in all our different and wonderful ways.

thats good to hear. I would like to represent the greater good for mankind, towards which I strongly believe that religion has made no useful contributions.

I think that while we don't believe in religion (maybe some people do) it is important to respect the opinions and beliefs of those who do, especially if our arguments are to hold any sway.

Thanks for your comments everyone, I'm sure I will learn a lot from this forum in the future. You have given me much to think about already!

Zombrex

Scofflaw wrote:

Good point! Valmont, do you own a sword? If not, you're probably an agnostic.

LOL

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

I think swords are pretty and want one, can I play too

Glad to have you. A big kitchen knife will also do in a pinch:)

Excellent, now I just have to decide if I am even agnostic or not

Zillah

How can you say that you're an atheist through and through, but then say you don't really know what an Atheist is...?

Valmont

Zillah wrote:

How can you say that you're an atheist through and through, but then say you don't really know what an Atheist is...?

I didn't say that.

I know what an Athiest is, I am one. I didn't really know what they represented in the bigger picture. For example are the majority of Athiests accepting of the practice of religion despite their beliefs or do they vehemently oppose it for a greater good? They are not necessarily my beliefs but you get the idea.

lostexpectation

Valmont wrote:

When I say I don't know what they represent, is it teenage angst? rebellion? pomousness? another reason to call yourself an intellectuual? Because any 'athiest/agnostic' I have had the displeasure of encountering fall into the above categories.

which category are you in?

Valmont

lostexpectation wrote:

which category are you in?

None of the aforementioned categories if that is what you were implying.

Well what other categories are there? Would you care to enlighten me? Then maybe I could answer your question.

Beruthiel

Valmont wrote:

Well what other categories are there?

how long is a piece of string?

may I be so bold as to ask what age you are?

Valmont

I don't really want to bother with categories to be honest, it's not really important.

I'm 18 years old, judge me from that alone if you will, but I know where I stand.

Beruthiel

Valmont wrote:

I don't really want to bother with categories to be honest, it's not really important.

indeed it's not, there is no requirement to be boxed

I'm 18 years old, judge me from that alone if you will, but I know where I stand.

I only asked because of your comments so far, it's clear you are starting out on the road, it's a long one and your mind will chance lots of times along the way. That's good as you grow more each time. Get yourself some books and start reading

Zombrex

Valmont wrote:

For example are the majority of Athiests accepting of the practice of religion despite their beliefs or do they vehemently oppose it for a greater good? They are not necessarily my beliefs but you get the idea.

You can believe what ever you want. Nothing you believe will break the description of "atheist" (unless of course you start believing in God, at which point I doubt you would want to call yourself an atheist anyway)

There is no belief system or belief structure as that comes with being an Atheist. "Atheist" is a description, not a religion.

If you think religion is the route of all evil thats cool. If you love the structure and morals of religion and want to be part of it thats cool too.

All atheist means is that you don't believe in any supernatural "gods". It has very little reflection on what you actually do believe in.

Zombrex

Valmont wrote:

So, to correct my statement, what do the athiest/agnostic group on boards represent?

Atheism doesn't represent anything. Saying that a lot of atheists subscribe to the ideas of sceular movements that attempt to challange the influence that certain religions (*cough* catholic *cough*) have over society.

This forum was set up in responce to the number of religious forums. We mainly discuss definitions of atheism, answer questions from people who don't know what atheism is, discuss matters of a secular society. And once and a while have a good old laught at the latest "Creationist" theory doing the rounds.

And yes, we are all pompous intellectuals

Scofflaw

To put it yet another way - atheism is a starting point.

That you don't believe in God does not require you to oppose religion (many atheists respect religion, but do not wish to be part of it).

That you don't believe in an afterlife (although this is not a requirement of atheism, it is commonly held) does rather require you to do as much with this life as you can, but does not lay down what you should do with it.

Atheism is a matter of personal conviction rather than a specific group or creed - by declaring yourself an atheist, you free yourself from allegiance to commonly held superstitions, but do not acquire any other allegiances.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Yossie

Just to give Valmont another slightly different perspective from some of those here:

I use “Atheism” as shorthand for believing in naturalism i.e. that there is nothing supernatural. To me, calling yourself “atheist” (although I wouldn’t try stop anybody!) and believing in ghosts, souls, reincarnation, etc is a contradiction in terms. It’s my experience that atheists tend to hold to naturalism. In fact, to my mind the strongest arguments in favour of atheism are the ones that originate from arguments for naturalism.

If you are going to take Beruthiels advice on reading then as a good solid intro I would suggest Julian Baggini’s - Atheism: A Very Short Introduction

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0192804243/026-0128318-8979662

Or there is the more “wanky” - An Intelligent Person's Guide to Atheism; Daniel Harbour.

PS I don't own a sword, so what am I (apart from in need of improved home protection)? I'd say sword ownership correlates more with the "computer orientated" than with atheism;)

Zillah

Valmont wrote:

I didn't say that.

I know what an Athiest is, I am one. I didn't really know what they represented in the bigger picture. For example are the majority of Athiests accepting of the practice of religion despite their beliefs or do they vehemently oppose it for a greater good? They are not necessarily my beliefs but you get the idea.

Then Im very confused, because your very first post was:

I am an athiest true and true but I don't really understand what you represent when you say you are an athiest.

Zombrex

Scofflaw wrote:

To put it yet another way - atheism is a starting point...

Yossie wrote:

Just to give Valmont another slightly different perspective from some of those here...

As demonstrated by the posts above, to me one of the most important things about being an atheist is the realisation that ideas come from us, from humanity, not a more powerful, infalable, super being.

As such there are no universal right or wrong ideas, just different points to be debated, argued and agreed over.

Trying not to sound too much like John Lennon, If the whole world was like that it would be a much better place