French not good?

bscm

languagenerd wrote: »

As for UCD, all I know is that one of my friends did it and dropped it after first year, she hated it.

my cousin does International Languages at UCD (French and Italian), she said grammar is her favourite class in French... it is a bit woeful that considering the huge percentage of LC students studying French, the colleges are not giving up to par courses in the language.

kate.m

I have french down with law and history on my cao. Now I want to change. I killed mysel during the summer of 5th year and during 6th year to up my French grade. I found it difficult but I didn't mind, because I was learning something.

I have had the worst French teachers in school, absent for weeks at a time, both senior and junior cycle.I had to get grinds last year, butt teacher was that bad I'm now the only person in my year who they think will get an A. (out of 44)

Based on that, I think this really isn't the course I should do. Is there any way I can change now?

stesh

I would say that OP's criticisms are fair enough. However, that's no excuse for anyone's lack of aptitude in the language. You can't expect to just turn up to class every day and walk out 4 years later speaking French - you will only learn if you put (a lot) of effort in in your own time. I'd be willing to bet this applies to pretty much any language department in College.

kitsuune

From experience I'm going to say that yes, the French department can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. The course is quite big and full of a lot of people who IMO only put the course down because they 'thought it would be good to have a language'. Yes, every year there is quite a big jump in the standard expected but I wouldn't worry because generally everyone is striving to reach it - unless you are horrific there will always be someone worse than you...

If you're going to do French in Trinity, I think you have to take the residence abroad seriously. Don't just go to France for the bare minimum two months and ****e around in a family friend's holiday home...

I get a bit fed up with the French Dep sometimes but at the end of the day, they aren't a terrible bunch. They DO need to listen to criticism though, because there are so many things that they could have improved over the years and don't really seem to care.
I have friends that after 3 years of French won't tell people that they studied it as an undergrad because they really are embarrassed. This isn't everyone though, and there are some really passionate people.

Most importantly, if you are picking it, study it because you actually have an interest in the culture/literature/history/linguistics not just because you want to learn some conversational French. There is a big focus on literature and politics and you can't avoid at least a bit of philosophy either!

I definitely would still study it if I had the chance, I just wish that the department would get their act together a bit so that it wouldn't have such a bad rep.

David Scott and Sarah Alyn-Stacey are legends also

FUNKYTOWWWN

hi,
I'm about to begin French/Spanish TSM this september and I'm a beginner Spanish student. If i were to begin spanish lessons and i realised that it wasn't for me after all, what are the chances or being allowed a transfer into another subject in TSM ?

delarge

Has anything changed so far or is there anyone new willing to share their experience with the French dept? I'd really appreciate some information on core and optional subjects from the 2nd year onwards, maybe more details about the staff and teaching methods, and are really most of the courses taught in English? Has anyone gone to erasmus? Basically I'm looking for some more recent info... Thanks

languagenerd

delarge wrote: »

Has anything changed so far or is there anyone new willing to share their experience with the French dept? I'd really appreciate some information on core and optional subjects from the 2nd year onwards, maybe more details about the staff and teaching methods, and are really most of the courses taught in English? Has anyone gone to erasmus? Basically I'm looking for some more recent info... Thanks

I last posted in this thread in 2011 and I'm finished my degree now.

The French department are are weird bunch. I will definitely say that they are big into philosophy and literature and "Frenchness" (if you know what I mean, I don't know how else to put it). They are fairly strict on regulations and, in general, they mark extremely hard. On the flipside, they are usually super-organised and you usually know what you're getting with them. Tbh, I liked them less and less as the degree went on. First year was fine (I actually found most of the 1st year literature v interesting and the level of language taught was a good challenge), second year was alright (there was one optional module that I just hated and the tutor was less than helpful) and by third year, I was just sick of their philosophy-based essay questions (900 words on "L'homme est-il un prisonnier du temps?". Seriously?) and hard marking. That said, I did have a very high level of French coming out of it and that's the goal at the end of the day, n'est-ce pas?

I wouldn't say that "most courses" are taught through English. It very much depends on the options you choose - in the first semester of third year, every module I did was through French (second semester, all but one were in French). It's left up to the lecturers what language they conduct their classes in (except in French Oral, obviously) and all the texts you have to read are in French. You submit at least one, sometimes two, French assignments in French each week. Also, each year you submit two term essays (as in, 2000-3000 words on a particular module) and one of those has to be in high-register academic French.

The options are different every year, so I don't know what's available at the moment. Every year, you have core modules in written language and oral French. Grammar lectures are compulsory in first and second year, in third year, you have three language modules: dissertation (that's the French word, not the English, a particular type of French essay, not a thesis), translation and summaries, and oral language. In 2nd year, we had to pick two of Ideas into Politics, Linguistics or Literature. In 3rd year, you picked two out of six or seven options (I did 18th Century Philosophical Fiction and French Language & Society).

I don't want to be too negative about it - some people love the French dept and they did have a large number of people opting to continue it in fourth year. Very much depends on the lecturers and your own outlook. I definitely learned a lot with them, albeit with a fair amount of frustration along the way...

delarge

Now that was helpful.

But huh, not sure what to think anymore. If I picked Trinity over UCD I'd do exclusively the French (major) and Italian (minor) combination but I actually haven't heard anything bad about the Italian dept unlike the French one, hm (I'm thinking aloud now). Have you heard from other students what it looks like in 4th year?

Personally I wouldn't mind spending time studying neither literature or philosophy but it's the quality of language teaching, translation classes etc that I'm a bit concerned about. Like, I might be an expert in Proust but if I don't know much about French syntax then... As I said I'm really into culture and literature stuff and I am aware that it's by reading that you learn most of the vocabulary and grammatical structures and nuances, but I've somehow got an impression that not so much time is dedicated to studying the language in depth. I might be wrong, though...

languagenerd

The people in 4th year seemed to have more assignments that me (I majored in Spanish) anyway. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I don't know - their exams probably counted for less, whereas with us it was all or nothing at the end of the year.

Well, it has to be said that, in Ireland at least, most university language degrees don't focus as much as they should on pure language study (perhaps, that's a debate in itself). I think no matter where you go, TCD or UCD, you're only going to have three or four hours of language study a week (out of 7 or 8 hours per subject). My brother did 1st year Spanish in UCD and only had 3 language classes a week too. In French, we had four hours in 1st year, as well as Contemporary France being taught through French, three in 2nd year and three in third year (along with various other modules being taught through French). You're expected to spend at least twice that amount of time on assignments and prep before class though, so it adds up to at least 12 hours a week if you're doing it right. Not to mention that you'll be reading the literature texts in French and learning from that too.*

It's worth noting, though, that TCD French doesn't focus all that much on translation til third year (compared to Spanish where we focussed almost exclusively on translations the whole time) - I don't know what UCD is like. DCU have a degree in Applied Languages and Translation Studies, but as far as I know, they don't teach the languages to as high a level as TCD. I also think TCD teach French to a higher level than UCD (from what I've heard from friends anyway), but obviously I haven't experienced both first hand to know.

*In first year, for example, every week we had one written assignment (like a short opinion piece or translation), a sheet of aural assignments and a list of grammar exercises to do, as well as a 2-page French text to read before language class and whatever novel/poem/short story to read before the literature lecture. And one of the term essays, like I said, was in French, so you learn a lot from that.

delarge

Yeah, I understand now how it works. Thanks a million.

playedalive

languagenerd wrote: »

I don't want to be too negative about it - some people love the French dept and they did have a large number of people opting to continue it in fourth year. Very much depends on the lecturers and your own outlook. I definitely learned a lot with them, albeit with a fair amount of frustration along the way...

Just echoing what languagenerd posted. This is definitely how I felt after three years studying French as my minor subject in TSM. I've also recently finished my degree. Personally, I was not a big fan of the literature courses on offer (except for some of the books we did in First Year) and very formal language classes. That's not to say you won't enjoy it. Many people do major in it so it works for some. Even some people told me they loved the literature courses. I was just more into the Linguistics portion of the course, which is quite limited in comparison to the literature on offer. I was also more geared into language learning, communication skills and cultural classes, so I would have enjoyed more of a focus on that in the language/oral lessons.

Again, it all depends on your outlook. If you really like French language and culture (as I did), you'll find aspects of the course you'll enjoy. If you're just doing French for a simple language qualification, this is definitely not the course for you. You'd be better off going to the Alliance Française. Even though I would question the methodology of the French department, I still think I came out with a high command of the language because I wanted to learn to communicate in it and learn about the culture. The French I have today is mostly due to the fact that I went to France and attempted to find ways to improve my French (read the literature I liked, watch films, conversation exchanges, etc). I did have some guidance from the French Department, but, at the end of the day, it's up to you to learn the language.

One other thing I will say is that there is a huge jump between Leaving Cert French and TSM French. Especially since I went from reading highly adapted newspaper texts and commonplace e-mails, to very wordy formal language. But, as long as you're willing to work on your French, you should have no problems.