Dealing with bad service

dbnavan

I went into a resturant the other day with my wife, her mother, and her aunt. I wasnt happy with the service so I asked to see a manager,

the following was wrong,

1) Mother-in-law and I ordered same dish yet she got 5 slices of salmon, where I got 2!

Wifes aunt got a cup of coffee whereas rest of us got mugs,

Wifes Aunt got her lunch in 2 seperate parts!(5-7 minutes time gap)

I asked for the coffee while we waited yet it didnt come til after the meal.

When I complained to the manager, i was told "Well first off i wouldnt call the service deplorable"

Reason her aunt got a cup was they ran out of mugs "and there was refills anyway" Reason we waited so long was they only had 1 working coffee pot

no excuse for the rest, I couldnt be arsed arguing anymore with her, it is not the done thing to argue with someone who is unhappy with service!

I dont mind paying a good tip for good service but at the same time if I amnt happy I have no problem complaining! I sent a steak back twice before til it was right, Why should I pay hard earned money for something not as I want it!

Thing that fustrates me about the whole thing is the resturant wasnt local so I cant exactly boycott it, I cant complain to an owner cause she was the owner. I just couldnt beleive somewhere would argue the point of my opinion of their service.

OTliddy

There was similarly bad service a few days ago at a family dinner I was at in a new hotel, where my cousin got very poor service. He ordered beef, and got well-done steak(he likes it rare aswell), his mash potatoes tasted like a salt container was spilt into it. He asked for new mash, and the new batch was just as bad. He then settled for a plate of chips, which were also rank. The service was unpolite and slow. Everyone's else's dinner was pretty bad too. Some of the vegtables and the desserts were processed tinned crap, and they only had chef ketchup. How to deal with it?
He didn't pay and we will never go there again.

WexCan

Just write a letter and spread the word- not much you can do otherwise. The sad fact is they're not going to miss your custom.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I worked in a shop last year and one of the managers told me " If you leave a customer with a good experience they will tell 5 people, if you leave them with a bad experience they will tell 20", Also "NEVER argue with a customer" think it was some of the best advice i got.

Maybe you should post the name that'd sure make a difference.

WexCan

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

I worked in a shop last year and one of the managers told me " If you leave a customer with a good experience they will tell 5 people, if you leave them with a bad experience they will tell 20", Also "NEVER argue with a customer" think it was some of the best advice i got.

Maybe you should post the name that'd sure make a difference.

Yeah, pretty simple customer service concept but some places don't seem to understand that they're running a business and getting paid by their customers, and their customer service standards directly affect their revenue. I mean it is the "hosiptality" industry isn't it.

Ruu_Old

The last 2 restaurants Ive been too have had crappy service. When that happens instead of leaving a tip or complaining about leave 1 penny on the table, that should send the message home What I do.

dizzywizzard

After travelling around quite a bit I refuse to leave a tip in this country now (I'm Irish) unless the service is exceptional. I was in Spain recenlty with 5 other people. Service was amazing and the bill for the 6 of us was always in and around 100 euro. That was including a couple of drinks etc...

I was out recently here in a chinese restaurant.. 2 of us with 1 bottle of wine 125 euro odd...

We have lost the run of ourselves.....

ferdi

name and shame

ferdi

dizzywizzard wrote:

After travelling around quite a bit I refuse to leave a tip in this country now (I'm Irish) unless the service is exceptional. I was in Spain recenlty with 5 other people. Service was amazing and the bill for the 6 of us was always in and around 100 euro. That was including a couple of drinks etc...

I was out recently here in a chinese restaurant.. 2 of us with 1 bottle of wine 125 euro odd...

We have lost the run of ourselves.....

amen to that.

pontovic

Well the best thing to do now dbnavan is to name this restaurant, because I know I'll never go to it if what you have said is anything to go by. They can lose alot more than one customer and with their flippant attitude they deserve to.

Hobbes

Can't name it here. I am sure there is somewhere he can complain to.

Not sure about the law in Ireland but in England you have to pay for the meal before you can make a complaint. Trying to leave without paying can get you arrested (in England).

jd

dizzywizzard wrote:

. I was in Spain recenlty with 5 other people. Service was amazing and the bill for the 6 of us was always in and around 100 euro......

One small point-would you work for Spanish wages here? (Not that I am disagreeing with the main point)

Sleipnir

How on earth did she get a job as manager of a restaurant with that attitude, that's what I'd like to know.

The only other thing you could do is find out who the owner is and write to them. I would be more annoyed with the managers argumentative psoture about the service than with the service itself.

Jumpy

Hobbes wrote:

Can't name it here. I am sure there is somewhere he can complain to.

Not sure about the law in Ireland but in England you have to pay for the meal before you can make a complaint. Trying to leave without paying can get you arrested (in England).

Sorry, but why can you not name it here?

Hobbes

Jumpy wrote:

Sorry, but why can you not name it here?

Because it could become a libel issue.

Saruman

I only tip for good service.. in Ireland where its not expected i only leave a few Euro.. Staff are well paid here. I was in China Palace in Mullingar.. lovely chinese food! Anyway service was excellent. Always had 2 people around waiting to refill water etc.. Food was quick. All in all it came to about €85 or so for the two of us.. full meal, starters, desert and glass of wine for wife (i was driving). I left a €10 tip i think

Had very bad service in the Dundrum Pizza hut.. actually.. had NO service there... 20 mins we were sitting and no one took our order!! When a bunch of new people came in and they got their order taken i threw the menu down and we left. I doubt they even noticed nor cared

Thirdfox

Jumpy: Probably to prevent a defamation action - boards.ie gets sued for thousands etc. etc. - can't prove what was said was correct.

Hagar

@dbNavan I have rather specific needs.

I would like different sized portions of the same meal for different members of our party.
Whilst most of us like mugs, one of us prefers cups, could they cater for this? Also the same person is a finnicky slow eater, could the meal be served in stages?
A coffee after the meal instead of while we are waiting would suit best.

Please could you recommend a restaurant to me.

Thirdfox

Still can't publish probably - innuendo present. Of course if you guys (cough mods) want to take the risk go ahead. The restaurant owners might not see and you won't have a problem...

(not legal advice btw)

i71jskz5xu42pb

Hobbes wrote:

Because it could become a libel issue.

Libel? Was it not a true account of what happened?

Hagar

What innuendo? To me this thread is a Godsend.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a restaurant to meet my personal needs?

cournioni

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

I worked in a shop last year and one of the managers told me " If you leave a customer with a good experience they will tell 5 people, if you leave them with a bad experience they will tell 20", Also "NEVER argue with a customer" think it was some of the best advice i got.

Maybe you should post the name that'd sure make a difference.

You're allowed to treat one in every five customers like shíte then so!

Hobbes

PaschalNee wrote:

Libel? Was it not a true account of what happened?

You could PM him and ask him what the resturant was.

Jumpy

Hobbes wrote:

Because it could become a libel issue.

Ever heard of a restaurant review?

Some things I agree with, but boards is a little too strict sometimes.
If something is below standard. Name it.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Hobbes wrote:

You could PM him and ask him what the resturant was.

I just don't get why it this particular post needs to be treated like the third secret of Fatima? There are loads of posts on boards complaining about poor service and the perpetrators are clearly named.

Why is this tread singled out for the heavy hand?

Thirdfox

Even if it were true you must prove so in court (bear in mind if you don't manage to prove the allegations then damages will be increased - increased slur in court). And it will be up to boards.ie to prove the allegations were true, not dbNavan (no offence but boards.ie probably has more money and is therefore a better "mark").

Innuendo is where although it may seem the sentence/post was innocent for those in the know (i.e. those who read all the posts) will know exactly what it means. Courts/juries don't look favourably on innuendo either.

A plea of review would come under fair comment/opinion - need for the statement to be based pretty much only in opinion - here there were substantial facts alleged - probably won't succeed.

Perhaps a defence of qualified privilege - public had interest to hear it, but do you have a duty to publish?

In the end is it better to take a risk of court action or just announce it somewhere else?

Thirdfox

PaschalNee wrote:

I just don't get why it this particular post needs to be treated like the third secret of Fatima? There are loads of posts on boards complaining about poor service and the perpetrators are clearly named.

Why is this tread singled out for the heavy hand?

Well then boards.ie can be sued by the companies mentioned in other posts. Personally I haven't seen them, maybe moderators of the other threads feel it is okay to have potential libel actions on their hands.

The legal discussion forum will not allow the hint of defamation in it... any post that is considered defamatory will be deleted asap.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Thirdfox wrote:

Well then boards.ie can be sued by the companies mentioned in other posts. Personally I haven't seen them

How about this thread "Maggot in my Alpen".

Maybe you didn't see it. Find that hard to believe though given that you posted on that thread.

Pop on over to the any of the Commuting or Broadband discussions - no holds barred in taking pot shots at service provided by the various companies involved there. What's so different about this instance?

Thirdfox

Lol true - must have left my mind - yep Alpen can sue boards.ie for defamation. Didn't think of that when I posted on that thread (Hobbes did mention that it was against the charter though). Didn't give legal advice there either...

There is nothing different in this instance - people are not being hostile to the OP or this post - we're just pointing out that it could result in a lot of damage for boards.ie (just like in those other posts).

I had to add in the disclaimer into my sig so that I could not be potentially liable for anything that I say and people take as legal advice... in fact it would be safer to say in my sig that I know nothing about law at all and words coming out of my mouth are all untrue.

dbnavan

Sorry guys but to prevent the risk of being banned as much as I would like to I amnt going to name the resturant**, As for writing to the owner, according to the waitress it was the owner I spoke to.


** ~Agrees with prior post, we have no problem here naming bb companies and problems with them, ~

Libel :A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation

Thirdfox

True - you may know it's true but how will boards.ie convince 12 members of the jury that it is so? On your evidence? It's hardly impartial is it?

Like I said though - the restaurant probably won't take an action: 1. bad publicity 2. they might not know of boards.ie! (those are applicable reasons why the other potentially defamed companies mentioned elsewhere haven't taken legal action).

stovelid

I agree that service in Ireland is brutal and it's a pin in the arse. I couldnt leave without paying a tip though. What if the tips are split between the staff? That means the good waiters/waitresses - who probably rely on tips to supplement their wages - are being punished for other **** waiting staff/chef/owner.

dizzywizzard wrote:

After travelling around quite a bit I refuse to leave a tip in this country now (I'm Irish) unless the service is exceptional.

dbnavan

Thirdfox wrote:

True - you may know it's true but how will boards.ie convince 12 members of the jury that it is so? On your evidence? It's hardly impartial is it?

And that of 3 other people with me

Thirdfox

I have no experience of real law cases and do not know what level of evidence is needed (well prove over 50% more likely that you are right)... anyway I'm taking this thread wildly off topic (thanks stovelid for reminding me what this is all about!)

I for the most part don't like the service here in many restaurants in Ireland... waiters seem very disinterested in the customer... my €0.02

dbnavan

stovelid wrote:

I agree that service in Ireland is brutal and it's a pin in the arse. I couldnt leave without paying a tip though. What if the tips are split between the staff? That means the good waiters/waitresses - who probably rely on tips to supplement their wages - are being punished for other **** waiting staff/chef/owner.

I only tip, and I dont mind tipping well, if the service is good. I wont tip bad service, dont care what they are paid, not my business.

CuLT

All of you pseudo-lawyers are fantastic.

Get your degrees from Hearsay University?

I have rarely had a bad experience in a restaurant, though I tend to pick carefully. Only ever had a problem with one shop a certain chain of sandwich bars, but that was more to do with the generally appalling level of service I had experienced that day in other shops.

Thirdfox

Studying law in Trinity College actually. But heh not spoiling this thread (any more ) with this off-topicness.

Siogfinsceal

why cant he name and shame I dont understand? surely freedom of speech allows him to voice his opinion of this restaurant? is it any different to a restaurant review in the paper which is legal? Theres no problem if he wanted to recommend them so I dont see why a bad review should be disallowed??

Lothaar

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

stovelid

good man, fair play to you

dbnavan wrote:

dont care what they are paid, not my business.

cooperguy

Lothaar wrote:

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

Somebody is speaking sense.......FINALLY

segadreamcast

Thirdfox wrote:

Studying law in Trinity College actually. But heh not spoiling this thread (any more ) with this off-topicness.

No offence Thirdfox, but the amount of times you mention that 'qualification', yet contradict yourself by spouting pseudo-legal sh!te is unbelievable (I would like to recall the thread involves consumer affairs/the camera sold for less than it ought to be).

If the OP posts it as an opinion, nothing more, it can not be considered defamatory as it is merely an opinion (much like a review) - no matter what medium presents it. I'm sure there's plenty of case law on it too - though I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to sue based on a review.

segadreamcast

Lothaar wrote:

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

You bugger, you beat me to it. You're also right about RHCP too. In fact, I've never read a single post that is so right about so many things.... if only we still had that 'karma' button...

Thirdfox

You do know that there is a difference between contract law and tort law right? My information provided on the Apple camera thread was from McDermott's Law on Contracts - the leading book on contract law, write to him if you think it's pseudo-defecation. I have finished studying tort law (under which defamation is covered and gave my opinion on the facts that I knew - you may think that it is legal waffle, so be it.)

How many times have I mentioned that qualification? (It's not a qualification at all btw - that's why there's a disclaimer - could be sued under for professional negligence otherwise).

You do not know what my personal circumstances with Apple is currently - don't think you're qualified to comment

As I have already pointed out - the defence of fair comment is open most definitely to the OP and boards.ie see post no. 26. I've just pointed out that people are taking a risk (however small) that could lead to many inconveniences for the forum.

*edit: I see that you have contributed nothing on topic in your posts - is this just some rant? Also you should start clearing out your old PMs - inbox is full I see.

segadreamcast

Thirdfox wrote:

You do know that there is a difference between contract law and tort law right? My information provided on the Apple camera thread was from McDermott's Law on Contracts - the leading book on contract law, write to him if you think it's pseudo-defecation. I have finished studying tort law (under which defamation is covered and gave my opinion on the facts that I knew - you may think that it is legal waffle, so be it.)

How many times have I mentioned that qualification? (It's not a qualification at all btw - that's why there's a disclaimer - could be sued under for professional negligence otherwise).

You do not know what my personal circumstances with Apple is currently - don't think you're qualified to comment

As I have already pointed out - the defence of fair comment is open most definitely to the OP and boards.ie see post no. 26. I've just pointed out that people are taking a risk (however small) that could lead to many inconveniences for the forum.

*edit: I see that you have contributed nothing on topic in your posts - is this just some rant? Also you should start clearing out your old PMs - inbox is full I see.

Yes, you caught me. I took a thread off topic in After Hours. Bravo.

They are taking about as great a risk as 'The Irish Times' takes in publishing a scathing film review every now and then. I wouldn't accuse McDermott's book of putting a foot wrong - however, I would accuse you of misinterpreting and adhering to some sort of tabloid-esque policy of 'Sensational Law' that requires you to spout off something legal when it was neither asked for nor needed then, when (often sensibly) challenged on the issue, to reply: "I'm a Trinity Law Student, actually".

Pulling it on topic though - db - you were, of course, right to complain and, sadly, it's something Irish people do all too rarely in restaurants, instead choosing to grumble to themselves and then telling the waitress that "it was lovely !". Insincerity is apparently our strong suit, it seems at times!

Sam Vimes

people are saying it could be libel because dbnavan cant prove his claims. how is it ever possible to prove a claim like that? should we all bring video cameras and document our every move? barring that such a claim will always be their word against his. even the "maggot in the alpen" bloke only has his word that he found it in there. businesses shouldnt be able to get away with shoddy service just because people cant prove it happened. besides which, it did happen to theyd be mighty stupid to try to sue boards over it

hshortt

I remember listening to Gerry Ryan a good while ago and he had a restaurant critic with him who said that you could leave and pay only the price of the raw ingredients for your meal. Don't know how true this is but it sounds reasonable to me.

That said never had to do it, the one place I was in that was terrible my party left after the starter arrived in a record 90 minutes and was cold. I got up went to the manger explained I was leaving, that I was not willing to pay for the poor service. She started getting loud and spitting through gritted teeth that I must pay for the drinks and the starter. She said she'd call the police and I said that was fine, I left my name and address and told her to send me an invoice. Never heard from her again.

Cheerio
Howard

Cake Fiend

Saruman wrote:

20 mins we were sitting and no one took our order!! When a bunch of new people came in and they got their order taken i threw the menu down and we left. I doubt they even noticed nor cared

They probably didn't. If you had actually complained to the people responsible, then you might have gotten something out of it - IMO, if you don't complain to someone's face, you don't have much of a right to complain about them later to other people.

But, 'tis the traditional Irish way, isn't it.

Thirdfox

Please clear out your some of your old PMs Noel - I wanted to post a detailed response to your allegations without resorting to posting here with off-topic issues.

Anyway you state that I respond "I'm a Trinity Law Student" to a challenge to an issue... looking back at the posts I believe I was responding to CuLT's question asking did I get a degree from Hearsay university. Quoting me out of context doesn't really help the situation any.

Also you didn't address my point that I haven't studied contract law (not yet), whereas I have an exam in defamation in 2 weeks time. How am I being sensationalist when I say to err on the side of caution?

parsi

Thirdfox wrote:

Please clear out your some of your old PMs Noel - I wanted to post a detailed response to your allegations without resorting to posting here with off-topic issues.

Anyway you state that I respond "I'm a Trinity Law Student" to a challenge to an issue... looking back at the posts I believe I was responding to CuLT's question asking did I get a degree from Hearsay university. Quoting me out of context doesn't really help the situation any.

Also you didn't address my point that I haven't studied contract law (not yet), whereas I have an exam in defamation in 2 weeks time. How am I being sensationalist when I say to err on the side of caution?

Would ye go away outside and continue yer "Mc Cutheon at dawn" posturing and let the rest of us read this thread without pseudo-legal mumbo-jumbo quasi-useful (running-out-of-compund-words-now) stuff. Or else gwan over to the Broadband forum and give out to everyone who moans about ** or *** or ****** or ***** ********* ....

shoegirl

Hobbes wrote:

Can't name it here. I am sure there is somewhere he can complain to.

Not sure about the law in Ireland but in England you have to pay for the meal before you can make a complaint. Trying to leave without paying can get you arrested (in England).

I think that is correct. However I do have one story that is even worse than all of these.

My parents brought us to a pub to have lunch in a scenic Wicklow area in the late 1980s. After ignoring us for quite some time we ordered the food, settled into a corner and waited for the food to come . . . and waited . . . and waited

Eventually after about half an hour nothing happened. A minute or so later 5 plates of food were left on the bar counter about 25 feet away and my parents were so incensed they just packed us up and walked out!

I always say - if you get good service, tell your friends, if its bad, tell your friends and don't give them your business again. We in Ireland are so willing to be treated like dirt its unreal. If somebody won't treat you like a customer then don't be one there again.