Confused about my religion

Killaqueen!!!

This might be a bit of a random thread, but I thought I'd give it a go. This is my first post here so please respect it, and if you can't find anything nice to say about it, than don't post here.

I am a Christian. I know I am...but I don't know whether I should be Catholic or Protestant or what. I know that may seem weird. It's just that my family isn't Catholic, so it's hard for me growing up when my family isn't very religious. It's not that they don't believe in God, it's just that they don't go to Church all the time, and they don't practice their religion often. I hate to say that I am the same way.

I believe in a lot of the Protestant ways...but for some reason, I feel the need to be Catholic. Maybe it's my strong pride in being Irish, or the fact that all my friends are Catholic. That's another thing - all my friends are Catholic and keep talking about their Confirmation and their Communion. And how much money they made etc. But that's not why I want to be religious..I don't want to make these Catholic ceromonies because it's all about the money..

I'm sorry for this, it's just I'm so confused and I don't know who to talk to.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

This might be a bit of a random thread, but I thought I'd give it a go. This is my first post here so please respect it, and if you can't find anything nice to say about it, than don't post here.

I am a Christian. I know I am...but I don't know whether I should be Catholic or Protestant or what. I know that may seem weird. It's just that my family isn't Catholic, so it's hard for me growing up when my family isn't very religious. It's not that they don't believe in God, it's just that they don't go to Church all the time, and they don't practice their religion often. I hate to say that I am the same way.

I believe in a lot of the Protestant ways...but for some reason, I feel the need to be Catholic. Maybe it's my strong pride in being Irish, or the fact that all my friends are Catholic. That's another thing - all my friends are Catholic and keep talking about their Confirmation and their Communion. And how much money they made etc. But that's not why I want to be religious..I don't want to make these Catholic ceromonies because it's all about the money..

I'm sorry for this, it's just I'm so confused and I don't know who to talk to.

In all honesty, your friends don't sound like Catholics at all. And, if I may be blunt, your reasons for converting aren't very strong. Being Irish has nothing to do with being catholic. Very few Irish people who claim to be catholc or are labeled are actually PRACTICING catholics. Also, being a catholic because your friends are - being ANYTHING because your friends are - is never a good idea.

What is it about catholicism that attracts you? What beliefs do you relate to and what is your understanding of the cathecism? If you have no idea, try going to mass for a couple of Sundays, listen to various priests (not just one), see what it's like. Then decide if you believe or don't believe.

Hope that helps in some way!

solidgear

does the Lord call an individual 2 b a Catholic or Prody, No, simply 2 love him & serve him, & spread the gospel. both sides of the divide have posative aspects to there faith, however, one is just as steeped in religous cerimony as the other, One thinks the issues which will decide your dilema would be.

1. The Lords table "Do this as often as you" 1st corinthians 11 v 23-26
2. Praying to mary & the saints/ confession to a priest "There is 1 mediator between man & God" 1st timothy 2v5.
3. Is the pope infalable?-Should the laws he make take precedence in your life over the bible & the Holy Spirits interpreting Scripture into your life?
4. Praying for the dead
5. Purgetry.

considering you have accepted Christ as your Saviour, surely these issues are truly all that remain for you 2 work through as to where u stand as an individual regarding the Catholic/proddy thing.

arbeitsscheuer

Quakers.

Tis worth a look, it seems to be a good option for someone unwilling or too confused to tie themselves to any specific denomination.

Ba_barbaraAnne

I think anybody of any intelligence gets to a stage in their lives where they question their belief systems. It is a natural part of growing up and maturing. I've been there.... thought about changing from Catholic to C of I, and took a long time studying the respective pros and cons of each before deciding that I am a Christian first and foremost, but chose to worship in the catholic church I was brought up in.

Recently one of my children was confirmed, but earlier in the year he was considering not putting himself forward for confirmation as he had serious questions about the Catholic Church and whether or not he felt comforatable making promises he might not keep. This led to some great discussions with non-catholic friends - christians, buddhists and atheists, as well as doing major research on various belief systems. I let him get as much information as he could handle and then decide for himself what he would do.

My advice to you would be to talk to people about their beliefs, think seriously about what YOU believe in and find out if there is an organised religion that encompasses your beliefs and values. I don't think there are many people who take on board 100% of any man-made religion. Christianity is for everyone, but it's different churches tend to shape the message of Jesus to suit their own slant on things. I'm comfortable enough with my choice, because community worship is important to me and the Mass can be very uplifting when attended in the right frame of mind. However, if my son had decided against being confirmed, then he would have had my full support and respect for making a serious, well-considered decision. My eldest son has given up attending church at all, and while I am disappointed, he has to work it out for himself.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Take your time, listen to others but make your own mind up about what church you join.

Good luck.. and God Bless

5uspect

The question is not should you be Catholic or Protestant, Muslim or Jewish. You need to take a long hard look at religion as a whole. You say your a christian, fine if thats what you believe I'll try to spare you my whole religion is a virus that infects the young athiest rant. You seem to have trouble with religion as the money making franchise that it is. Organised relgion is about control. All the fancy rituals, old books and teachings are man made, all religions are dogmas attached to the same message of be a nice guy with various mutations and adaptions to make people rich along the way.

You say you feel the need to be Catholic to confirm that you are Irish. Being Irish is something completely different. You find this out as you get older and meet more people from around the world. I'm guessing your still quite young from your "Confirmation and their Communion" comment, sorry if I got that wrong. But Irishness is probably a whole other heated debate of its own.

If catholism and its perversion of christian ideas are confusing you jumping ship isn't going to make things much better. May I suggest you try following the "be a nice guy" tactic and forget all the dogma. Who cares? If God exists and you lived a good life then is the bearded one going to punish you for his vanity?

It seems that its the man made crap thats bothering you, personally I believe its all man made crap but if you think there's something there thats your choice, just don't let the church (any church) force their interpretation of these ideas on you.

Everyone gets confused, its how you seperate the bull from whats important that matters.

MOGSA

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

This is my first post here so please respect it, and if you can't find anything nice to say about it, than don't post here.

I am a Christian. I know I am...but I don't know whether I should be Catholic or Protestant or what.

I believe in a lot of the Protestant ways...but for some reason, I feel the need to be Catholic.

You have shown remarkably maturity and have raised issues we all have - some of us into middle age.
I put my two cents worth in on a post on the 'Process to Leaving Catholica Church' thread on the 25/4. Those statements I could defend against anyone - but remember, these are made from my perspective. God has always given you the choice - read it and make up your own mind.

I'm sorry for this, it's just I'm so confused and I don't know who to talk to.

Yes, you do - talk to God! Ask Him thru prayer what He wants you to do. Remember, He has a unique plan for you ... nobody and nothing else matters! Especially their opinions - it's your life.

lostexpectation

so your in 6th class are you, are you in the same school as your catholic friends ?

Killaqueen!!!

No, I'm in 3rd year in high school! I'm 15. But it's a mixed school, with many Christian religions.

And thank you everyone for your replies, they've really helped! And thank you all for being so nice about it.

Rockerette

at the end of the day, if you believe more in the Protestant teachings, or if you discover anything else that you relate to more, thats what you should follow. Theres no point being an "active" member of a church if you have doubts about it..


im C of I, and when i go to mass services, my hearts not in it at all, and i feel out of place completely..

I was broguht up C. of I, and completely agree with most of what they say (and the differences between Catholicism), so im happy..


Its completely up to you though, try out other religions too, you might surprise yourself


good luck

solidgear

Remember, the Bible is the Christians measure stick, don't just believe what you think to be right, match it against what the Cannon of Scripture says. If any teachings you hear are not from the Bible, or a contradiction to its principles & the teachings of Jesus Christ then be aware.

Look on the bright side, you have a lifetime to build your relationship with your Saviour & Lord. Ultimately He is watching over you, He knows your dilema & will reveal Himself to you deeper as the years go by. His Grace is sufficient to sustain you through this period of searching. It may seem overwhelming at times, but then looky here, your not walking through the desert for forty years -|:-).

MOGSA

solidgear wrote:

Remember, the Bible is the Christians measure stick, don't just believe what you think to be right, match it against what the Cannon of Scripture says. If any teachings you hear are not from the Bible, or a contradiction to its principles & the teachings of Jesus Christ then be aware.

Look on the bright side, you have a lifetime to build your relationship with your Saviour & Lord. Ultimately He is watching over you, He knows your dilema & will reveal Himself to you deeper as the years go by. His Grace is sufficient to sustain you through this period of searching. It may seem overwhelming at times, but then looky here, your not walking through the desert for forty years -|:-).

What a lovely and genuine response! The only thing I can add is that you will have a lifetime but only thru His covering and if its in His plan for you. If, as a christian, your objective is to sit at the feet of Jesus one day in heaven (there is any other?), then you have to be ready at any time to move on.

You can die any time - approx 14 of my friends can no longer testify to that!

Always be ready. :cool:

Killaqueen!!!

MOGSA wrote:

What a lovely and genuine response! The only thing I can add is that you will have a lifetime but only thru His covering and if its in His plan for you. If, as a christian, your objective is to sit at the feet of Jesus one day in heaven (there is any other?), then you have to be ready at any time to move on.

You can die any time - approx 14 of my friends can no longer testify to that!

Always be ready. :cool:

Thank you both! I must admit, I always definitely believed in God. Yet I never truely studied the bible. I'm now beginning to, and I'm already finding some enlightening passages.

solidgear

Yes agreed Mogsa, we can all go at any time, however please note that scare mongering about failing to meet Gods standards & His plans is wrong to be placed on believers, & this person is young in there faith with many preasures surrounding them in there life right now, Christ said, "Go & Sin No More", I would think that at this stage in this persons life, that is primary. As education is where you are at right now killaqueen, may i suggest you stay faithful to yours studies for your career ahead & leave serious theoligical studies to a later time of your teens. The Appostle Paul in the New Testement underwent years of training before getting into ministry after he came to faith, so relax on yourself killaqueen, Faith is the working together of God & you, Perhaps there are a number of doors which Your Heavenly Father will be pleased to open for u in your life choices, never ever feel pushed or backed into a choice you are not comfortable with unless you truly know it is the Holy Spirit taking you their.

MOGSA please note, I am not saying that you are scare mongering, Just aware of the tone of what you wrote.

-|:-)

lostexpectation

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

No, I'm in 3rd year in high school! I'm 15. But it's a mixed school, with many Christian religions.

And thank you everyone for your replies, they've really helped! And thank you all for being so nice about it.

oh right i just thought you were talking as if the confirmations were happening around you, what the difference between your life as protestant and others religions around you, I don't really know the difference

MOGSA

solidgear wrote:

Yes agreed Mogsa, we can all go at any time, however please note that scare mongering about failing to meet Gods standards & His plans is wrong to be placed on believers........

MOGSA please note, I am not saying that you are scare mongering, Just aware of the tone of what you wrote.

-|:-)

Certainly, it probably did come across harshly ..... I was very mindful of the enormous 'peer-group' pressure brought to bear at this age and the need to remain strong. But remember, this is also the age of spiritual responsibility which few adults know about because of their ignorance, let alone cover or teach their children. In another post I wrote:

Your spirit is like a glass vessel. If you choose Satan, then his demons will fill it. If you choose not to believe there is a God then it is empty. If you choose the God of Abraham, then it will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
These are all mutually exclusive.

Why glass? Because the contents are very discernable as one can determine by the posts on the threads.

Like an empty shell on the bottom of the ocean shore, something is likely to make it's home there, sooner than later. And that something can only come from one of the other two.

Once Satan sees your commitment to the opposition then he will place all sorts of temptations in your way to gain your soul. It certainly can get a lot tougher to keep on the narrow road.

Yes, there are no standards to meet and plans to fulfil without God's help - you cannot fail because, at the appropriate time and as you grow in Him, God partners you. God takes you thru this growth in Him, there is no end of year examination to fail.

I was just recommending that one must just get onto the right road as early as possible because sometimes you lose the opportunity - this did not come across clearly in my post - I apologise.


Paul, the apostle, showed us what to do, especially concerning the armour of God. The main thing is to ask God to protect you; show you the way each day and then, while still being mindful of temptation, enjoy your life, knowing that you can.

BrianCalgary

Hey Killaqueen, my advice would be to try attending different chruches. When I was in my early 20's I went to about 7 different Christian denomination churches in Toronto. I also read up on Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons as well as some Eastern Religions. I discounted teh Mormons, JW's and Eastern because they denied the deity of Christ.

What I wanted to see was the different worship styles and staements of faith. I grew up Anglican (C of I), spent the first ten years of married life going RC and now we attend a Christian and Missionary Alliance, mainly because our Senior Pastor is a great preacher, but Bible Study is encouraged, we are given the opportunities to be educated in the Christian faith which allows us to grow in our realtionship with Christ.

On looking at any church, that is my question 'does it allow me to grow in Christ and to serve Him?

As asuggestion try PM'ng any of teh Christians on here and we might be able to suggest a church in your area.

May God Bless you in your search.

UU

You know there is really little difference between Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox. After all, they're all Christian and believe in Jesus as a God. The only difference I found was a few beliefs and practises were different.

Here is a good parable I heard once:

There was a Jewish rabbi and he was asked by a stranger "What is Judaism?"
The rabbi replied "Do you not know?"
The stranger said "No. It was always too complex for me with all its laws, practises, diets, dress, history, faith that I gave up and decided to be ignorant".
The Rabbi replied "No it isn't. It's very simple really. Most of its just commentary!"
The stranger replied "Then can you tell me in brief what it's all about while balancing on one leg".
The Rabbi stood on one leg and said "Hurt not others in ways that would be hurtful to you".

That is the universal Golden Rule which applies to every religion. Use this well as through life that is the definate paramount principle of action.

solidgear

UU wrote:

You know there is really little difference between Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox. After all, they're all Christian and believe in Jesus as a God. The only difference I found was a few beliefs and practises were different.

Here is a good parable I heard once:


That is the universal Golden Rule which applies to every religion. Use this well as through life that is the definate paramount principle of action.

Buddy there is a massive diffirence in the Doctrine of Salvation between RC's & Proddies, Please dont Categories us as the same, We are not. think you need to go do some theologicals studies before you make such a post in future.

robindch

> Hurt not others in ways that would be hurtful to you
> That is the universal Golden Rule which applies to every religion

This is the fundamental principal of Humanism too: try not to hurt people. But the irreligious humanists seem to be the only folks who don't then go on to surround it with conditions (eg, unless you're gay, or divorced, or pregnant outside marriage etc, etc)...

.

love4all

God is not a religon many ppl forget tht.If da world was perfect there would be no divide.christian is da first religon as was in Ireland b4 it was divided.Catholics and Protestants have many beliefs tht are not stated in da Bible like praying to Mary and saints as saviours of the world,when da only saviour of da world was and is Jesus Christ.i myself was raised a catholic but never believed in the Bilble or Jesus cos of da contradictions the religon had.untill i walked into a Christian Fellowship 2yrs ago and seen the true love and praise they had for the Lord our God tht i knew this is where i belong.ask the Lord into ur life and He will never forsake you.

Bradidup

Confused about your Religion?
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0009/0009_01.asp

Admitt you are a sinner......All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
Repent and be willing to turn away from Sin. Execpt ye repent ye shall likewise perish. Luke 13vs3 be

10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Find a Church that ONLY preaches Gods inspired word ie: the Bible.

kelly1

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

This might be a bit of a random thread, but I thought I'd give it a go. This is my first post here so please respect it, and if you can't find anything nice to say about it, than don't post here.

I am a Christian. I know I am...but I don't know whether I should be Catholic or Protestant or what. I know that may seem weird. It's just that my family isn't Catholic, so it's hard for me growing up when my family isn't very religious. It's not that they don't believe in God, it's just that they don't go to Church all the time, and they don't practice their religion often. I hate to say that I am the same way.

I believe in a lot of the Protestant ways...but for some reason, I feel the need to be Catholic. Maybe it's my strong pride in being Irish, or the fact that all my friends are Catholic. That's another thing - all my friends are Catholic and keep talking about their Confirmation and their Communion. And how much money they made etc. But that's not why I want to be religious..I don't want to make these Catholic ceromonies because it's all about the money..

I'm sorry for this, it's just I'm so confused and I don't know who to talk to.

Hello Killaqueen, I can say with 100% conviction that the catholic Church teaches nothing but the truth as revealed by Jesus Christ. Protestant churches on the other hand have broken away from the original true Church. They deny such things as the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the validity of confessing to a priest etc, etc. Everything that the Church teaches is based on tradition handed down to the apostles and holy scripture. You'll find nothing taught by the Church that contradicts scripture.

You are drawn to the only Church that teaches the whole truth. Many choose to reject this truth because it is easy and convenient to do so. The catholic Church, like every other church isn't a guarantee of salvation but it certainly gives you the best possible chance of being saved. Believing in Jesus Christ alone isn't sufficent. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments". Faith alone isn't enough!

God bless,
Noel.

Quietguy018

In todays irish society its almost totally irrelevent if your Protestant or Catholic it personal preference dont allow others decide what you believe
if you believe in Protestantism be Protestant thats all there is to it

Dave!

kelly1 wrote:

The catholic Church, like every other church isn't a guarantee of salvation but it certainly gives you the best possible chance of being saved.

How's that?

JimiTime

kelly1 wrote:

Hello Killaqueen, I can say with 100% conviction that the catholic Church teaches nothing but the truth as revealed by Jesus Christ. Protestant churches on the other hand have broken away from the original true Church. They deny such things as the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the validity of confessing to a priest etc, etc. Everything that the Church teaches is based on tradition handed down to the apostles and holy scripture. You'll find nothing taught by the Church that contradicts scripture.

You are drawn to the only Church that teaches the whole truth. Many choose to reject this truth because it is easy and convenient to do so. The catholic Church, like every other church isn't a guarantee of salvation but it certainly gives you the best possible chance of being saved. Believing in Jesus Christ alone isn't sufficent. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments". Faith alone isn't enough!

God bless,
Noel.

Jesus is our only mediator with God. Not any church, not any priests, not any popes or ministers. Jesus is our only mediator. Adding on all the 'traditions', is just an imitation of the burdens that the pharisees imposed on the Jews, which far from yielding truth, yielded nothing but ignorance to what was true!

kelly1

Quietguy018 wrote:

In todays irish society its almost totally irrelevent if your Protestant or Catholic it personal preference dont allow others decide what you believe
if you believe in Protestantism be Protestant thats all there is to it

Hello Quietguy, I would like to respectfully disagree with your assertion.

The catholic Church the fullness of truth whereas other Christian denominations teach part of the truth while others deny truths that the catholic Church teaches. So why have part of the truth when you can have the whole truth!?

Only through the catholic Church can we receive a full measure of God grace. This grace is primarlily received though the sacraments (Eucharist and confession). Jesus founded a Church on Peter the apostle and the same Church continues to this day.

God bless,
Noel.

Catari Jaguar

Why do you have to label yourself? You can have spirituality w/o being a "something" who HAS to believe xyz to be in that group. Most religious groups are break aways who just disagreed with something and changed it. i would be 100% against any organised religion. It's all about control.

I mean where did Catholicism come from? Protestantism? From another group etc etc... In college I'm studying a book called "Who is Jesus?" in a Christology course, and it has really done my head in over what's true or the "literal truth" or a metaphor. I've packed it all in.

I believe in Jesus, not sure about resurrection and don't believe in a second coming. But I like Jesus' message about love and forgiveness. I guess I believe in a God, so I'm a deist apparently. But I don't believe in Creationism. I also like the Buddhist outlook on life.

If people only choose a religion because they're scared of the afterlife and want to know that'll they'll be saved I think it's a silly selfish reason to follow something. Me, I don't like the idea of Eternal Life.

Just be a good person. Believe whatever you want to... Thats how most religions came about in the first place.

kelly1

DaveMcG wrote:

How's that?

Hello Dave, I say this because the CC teaches the truth and only the truth. Just to give one example, Jesus said the following:-

John 6

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.

26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

I don't think Jesus could have made it any more clear! He wasn't using figures of speech here. He is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. Yet how many churches deny this truth!!

Another example:-

John 20
22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Here Jesus is giving his apostles the power to forgive sins by the power of the Holy Spirit. You can be absolutely certain that when a priest says the words of absolution and regardless of how grave your sins might be, that you are forgiven, no questions asked. Without confession, how can we be sure that we're forgiven is we ask God directly? Confession is also an act of humility and a great source of grace to avoid future sin.

God bless,
Noel.

kelly1

JimiTime wrote:

Jesus is our only mediator with God. Not any church, not any priests, not any popes or ministers. Jesus is our only mediator. Adding on all the 'traditions', is just an imitation of the burdens that the pharisees imposed on the Jews, which far from yielding truth, yielded nothing but ignorance to what was true!

Hello Jimi, where did you get this idea? Didn't Jesus establish a Church?

Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Do you deny that Jesus established a Church? Do you know better than Jesus?

God bless,
Noel.

kelly1

Hello Lil Kitten, answers below...

Lil Kitten wrote:

Why do you have to label yourself? You can have spirituality w/o being a "something" who HAS to believe xyz to be in that group.

God revealed truths and commandments to his people so
they could live according to His will. To deny truths revealed by God is suicide.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I mean where did Catholicism come from?

From Jesus Christ and His apostles.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Protestantism?

From Martin Luther.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I believe in Jesus, not sure about resurrection and don't believe in a second coming.

Why not? Can't God to anything!? Jesus is God!

Lil Kitten wrote:

But I don't believe in Creationism.

Neither do I

Lil Kitten wrote:

If people only choose a religion because they're scared of the afterlife and want to know that'll they'll be saved I think it's a silly selfish reason to follow something. Me, I don't like the idea of Eternal Life.

The main reason I
practice my religion is for love of God and neighbour. I believe in Heaven, Hell and Purgatory so naturally it matters to me a lot which of these I end up in! The salvation of my soul is a big priority for me! As regards eternal life, I can't wait! What wrong with an eternity of peace, rest, bliss, joy, beauty in the presence of a loving God!!?? Sounds good to me!

Lil Kitten wrote:

Thats how most religions came about in the first place.

Most, yes but not all. Judaism and Christianity were revealed directly from God while the others are man-made. Unfortunately the Jewish people haven't yet accepted Jesus as the Messiah. When Jesus came to earth, He established a new covenant between God and His people as was prophesied in the Old Testament. Jesus satisfied all the OT prophesies about the coming Messiah.

God bless,
Noel.

philologos

kelly1 wrote:

From Jesus Christ and His apostles.

From Martin Luther.

That is completely innacurate, to say that Catholicism came purely from Christ and His Apostles, and that Protestantism came from Luther.
If you are to say that Catholicism came from Christ and His Apostles, you must also recogise that Protestantism as a part of Christianity came from Christ and His Apostles, Luther rebelled against Catholicism as they were sinning against God (at the time in question). Theoretically Catholicism was the Christianity that was spread by the Romans (Orthodox was the result of the Byzantine Empire splitting from the Roman one), and Protestantism was spread by Luther, Calvin, and indeed King Henry VIII. These faiths however are both branches of what Christ and His Apostles preached.

5uspect

Lil Kitten wrote:

Why do you have to label yourself? You can have spirituality w/o being a "something" who HAS to believe xyz to be in that group. Most religious groups are break aways who just disagreed with something and changed it. i would be 100% against any organised religion. It's all about control.

It seems to me that religion in its entirety is fundamentally an exercise in labeling. Gods are the labels people put on things that are unknown, or unknown at the time. There is absolutely no way of knowing which "truth" is true in religion.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I mean where did Catholicism come from? Protestantism? From another group etc etc... In college I'm studying a book called "Who is Jesus?" in a Christology course, and it has really done my head in over what's true or the "literal truth" or a metaphor. I've packed it all in.

Well at least you recognise that there is conflict over what is the truth. How can so many other religious faiths be wrong? Why is Christianity more true than Islam or Scientology?

Lil Kitten wrote:

I believe in Jesus, not sure about resurrection and don't believe in a second coming. But I like Jesus' message about love and forgiveness.

As far as that portion of his philosophy goes, it has been said before and better by others, they didn't have as much drama at the end tho.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I guess I believe in a God, so I'm a deist apparently. But I don't believe in Creationism. I also like the Buddhist outlook on life.

Ultimately you're using your naturally evolved morality to pick portions of various faiths that conform with it, cherry picking your beliefs. No one (apart from maybe the creationists) uses the bible as a rule book for life.

Lil Kitten wrote:

If people only choose a religion because they're scared of the afterlife and want to know that'll they'll be saved I think it's a silly selfish reason to follow something. Me, I don't like the idea of Eternal Life.

Just be a good person. Believe whatever you want to... Thats how most religions came about in the first place.

Religions probably didn't come about through "believing whatever you like" they came about through "believe what I say". Like I mentioned earlier religion is an exercise in defining something unknown because it makes people feel better and important. And if someone charismatic enough seems to know all the answers then who am I to question? So just be a good person, forget about all the other nonsense.

JC 2K3

Lil Kitten wrote:

I mean where did Catholicism come from? Protestantism? From another group etc etc... In college I'm studying a book called "Who is Jesus?" in a Christology course, and it has really done my head in over what's true or the "literal truth" or a metaphor. I've packed it all in.

Check this out:

Owen

JC 2K3 wrote:

Check this out:

Very interesting! It should be noted that the chart includes not only religion, but magik groups too. It should also be noted that Freemasonry is not a Religion, but a Fraternity with moral underpinnings.

Schuhart

ned78 wrote:

Very interesting! It should be noted that the chart includes not only religion, but magik groups too. It should also be noted that Freemasonry is not a Religion, but a Fraternity with moral underpinnings.

It might also be argued that Islam was an offshoot of Christianity as much as Judaism. Mohammed himself said something to the effect that Christians were the people of closest outlook to Muslims, and he seemed to be influenced by a branch of Christianity called Nestorians. This (apparently) would account for the Islamic idea that Jesus is a God sent prophet, born of a virgin, who performed miracles but not the Son of God in the sense of being divine.

philologos

I personally think that what kelly1 is saying is totally false in relation to the Catholic church. Can I ask you kelly1 if your church so closely sticks to scripture, where did Papal infallability come from, and do you believe in it?

kelly1

Jakkass wrote:

I personally think that what kelly1 is saying is totally false in relation to the Catholic church. Can I ask you kelly1 if your church so closely sticks to scripture, where did Papal infallability come from, and do you believe in it?

Hello Jakkass, yes I do believe in papal infallibility but it's something that's widely mis-understood by many people, including catholics!

Papal infallibility only applies to the promulgation of doctrine on faith or morals that is taught "ex cathedra" (solemly declared). It doesn't mean that the pope can never say something in error or that he's incapable of sinning.

When an article of dogma is declared (which doesn't happen very often, 1950 was the last time), the Holy Spirit guarantees that it will not contain error.

The following verses support this doctrine:-

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth.

John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter.

John 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
http://www.catholic.com/library/papal_infallibility.asp

For the articles of dogma, see

http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.cfm

God bless,
Noel.

philologos

I don't understand why dogma need be published, correct me if I'm wrong but these are documents that are outside of what is preached in the Bible. This is the problem that people have with putting their faith in Catholicism, if people accept that the Pope is not infallable, how can the dogma which he publishes be infallable also?

Also in relation to the confession. Surely a Christian can confess to God in personal prayer rather than doing it via a priest. God is no longer transcendent as he was during the times of Judaism and the Israelites.

JC 2K3

The bible is widely open to interpretation. Different Christian churches preach their interpretation of it. And it is necessary to publish that churches thoughts on it.

Martin Luther wouldn't have gotten very far without publishing his 95 Theses, for example.

love4all

love4all wrote:

christian is da first religon

I have trouble understanding the gabble in your post and I hope I'm not quoting out of context, but are you trying to say here that christianity was the first religion...?

kelly1

Jakkass wrote:

I don't understand why dogma need be published, correct me if I'm wrong but these are documents that are outside of what is preached in the Bible. This is the problem that people have with putting their faith in Catholicism, if people accept that the Pope is not infallable, how can the dogma which he publishes be infallable also?

Jakkass,
The articles of dogma clearly define the articles of faith. The bible on the other hand isn't as clear cut and is often open to interpretation. e.g. the bible
doesn't mention the word Trinity so the dogma deals with this subject definitively. Without dogma you have a ship without a rudder. Dogma is revealed truth which is not open to debate.

Have you read the link on dogma? It discusses matter such as

- The Attributes or Qualities of God
- The nature of the Holy Trinity
- The Divine act of creation
- The true Divinity of Christ, Hypostatic union, work of Redemption

People need to remember that the bible was written by the early Church and it alone has the *authority* to interpret the bible.

Jakkass wrote:

Also in relation to the confession. Surely a Christian can confess to God in personal prayer rather than doing it via a priest. God is no longer transcendent as he was during the times of Judaism and the Israelites.

First of all God knows all your sins so there's no need to "confess" to God. You must of course come to God with a contrite and penitent heart and ask humbly for forgiveness.

When a priest says the words of absolution, the penitent is forgiven by God and cleansed through the action of the Holy Spirit. This is guaranteed by Christ:-

John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

The advantages of confession are that it is an exercise in humility and because it is a sacrament, we receive grace by going to confession, assuming the confession is genuine and honest.

On the other hand when you "confess" directly to God, forgiveness isn't guaranteed especially in the case of mortal sin.

God bless,
Noel.

philologos

If you don't mind me asking Noel. What do you think of celibacy? The claim from the Catholic church seems to be that because Jesus was celibate, and abstained from sex according to Scripture that priests should do the same. However the Lord our God, gave Aaron and his sons instructions to who they could marry in the Torah. And wouldn't abstaining from sex because Jesus did it be a way of saying that priests are supposed to be as divine as Jesus himself? Priests, like all human beings have shortcomings, and I think that it is good that the other churches recognise this.

Asiaprod

Jakkass wrote:

The claim from the Catholic church seems to be that because Jesus was celibate, and abstained from sex according to Scripture that priests should do the same.

I was off the understanding that there is no reference in Scripture to Jesus being celibate, it was an assumption only? Am I wrong?

Sangre

I thought celibacy arose to prevent succession laws passing church property off to a priest's children?

Scofflaw

Sangre wrote:

I thought celibacy arose to prevent succession laws passing church property off to a priest's children?

Curiously, the Church disputes this...from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

With admirable discernment, Gregory began his great work of purifying the Church by a reformation of the clergy. At his first Lenten Synod (March, 1074) he enacted the following decrees:

* That clerics who had obtained any grade or office of sacred orders by payment should cease to minister in the Church.
* That no one who had purchased any church should retain it, and that no one for the future should be permitted to buy or sell ecclesiastical rights.
* That all who were guilty of incontinence should cease to exercise their sacred ministry.
* That the people should reject the ministrations of clerics who failed to obey these injunctions.

"Guilty of incontinence" is married or living in sin. You can see how easy it is to claim that the aim is to prevent church property and offices passing out of the church and into private hands, since the other decrees all aim at the same thing. However, it is equally possible to argue that all of these are genuinely aimed at spiritual faults which lower the quality, reduce the resources, or distract, those who serve as priests.

It is often very difficult to distinguish the Catholic Church's self-interest from its genuine interest in serving Christ...in many cases the same decree serves both. Since the Pope in question is Gregory the Great, this is more than usually the case...

cordially,
Scofflaw

philologos

Asiaprod wrote:

I was off the understanding that there is no reference in Scripture to Jesus being celibate, it was an assumption only? Am I wrong?

Yes that's correct. It was an assumption. It is physically written in Leviticus of the women the priests can marry in the Bible. I should have said due to the absence of Jesus having sex in the scripture.

Sangre wrote:

What drives me and many other people to press these issues contrary to your belief in such a tactful manner, is that these issues not only reside in your mind but are being pushed into children's as fact, when they are not able to distinguish truth from lies.

Theres never been any case of children taking church property in other denominations as it understood that the house is only in the priests hands while he is in that position in the parish.