Where did it all go wrong?

blu_sonic

with bands like "good charlotte" and "fall out boy" calling themselves Punk what happened. the late 70's and early 80's punk was to me the real punk. I'll even say the New wave before it was hi jacked by the mainstream.

Its not punk if your parents/granny/boss all "bop" along with it

dregin

It's still there. Just ignore MTV... pretty simple.

Ag marbh

And remember theres nothing wrong with hitting this guy on the street.

Anarchist

blu_sonic wrote:

with bands like "good charlotte" and "fall out boy" calling themselves Punk what happened. the late 70's and early 80's punk was to me the real punk. I'll even say the New wave before it was hi jacked by the mainstream.

Its not punk if your parents/granny/boss all "bop" along with it

There is lots and lots of proper Punk, trust me......
Want some band names?
I get mine off bit Torrent a d/l proggie/site

Bands to look out for are
Punk or Oi

The Abuse
Oi Scouts
External Menace
Government Issue
Aus Rotten
Adolf and the piss artists
The Subversives
Dog**** Sandwich
Toxic Waste
Clit 45
U.F.C.
Intensive Care
Crucifix
Anti System
Suicidal Supermarket Trolleys
Fleas n' Lice
Running Riot


Now if u live in Dublin I could burn u some of these onto a disc........

The above are all guaranteed to restore your faith in Punk rock and Oi

cactushan

fleas n lice are deadly

OLP

Anarchist wrote:

Now if u live in Dublin I could burn u some of these onto a disc........

Mind you the disc won't work, but it's the tought that counts.

dregin

OLP wrote:

Mind you the disc won't work, but it's the tought that counts.

word

ferdi

jesus not this ****e again

franklern

And you can piss off you prick loving cock faced egomaniacal grapefruit of a joke I'd only fart in your general direction.

Anarchist

ferdi wrote:

jesus not this ****e again

explain.

Ag marbh

Anarchist wrote:

explain.

Ferdi likes power ballads and cock rock

blu_sonic

I love my cock getting rocked as much as the next man preferable by Siouxsie but thats beyond the point, goodpoint on avoid the enemy (NME).

I've heard a few of those bands, theres even 1 or 2 decent crossover sucesses but I mean how did the "Punk" brad get so far removed from what we all know as punk.

Anarchist

I blame the USA and Green Day and er American kids.

also MTV as Dregin pointed out.

ferdi

Ag marbh wrote:

Ferdi likes power ballads and cock rock

i like a mix of music, unlike yourself who seems to be stuck on trebly pain noise screaming about how you wish you were still 16 when infact you bend over and take it up the ass from your boss week in, week out.

Anarchist

Ferdi that is such a stupid reply.

ferdi

thanks, your opinion is important to me.

Ag marbh

ferdi wrote:

i like a mix of music, unlike yourself who seems to be stuck on trebly pain noise screaming about how you wish you were still 16 when infact you bend over and take it up the ass from your boss week in, week out.

I like lots of different genres, infact I could be found at a techno gig later. I'm only buzzing off ya. Cilit bang and your gone

melekalikimaka

Anarchist wrote:

I blame the USA and Green Day and er American kids.

also MTV as Dregin pointed out.

yeah green day, in fairness they used to have PANSY DIVISION as their support act, that was an early sign of what was gonna happen( tho pansy division are very humourous)

franklern

IF you're lookin for a couple of words phrase that'll make things all right you're only coddin yourself. Read Naomi Klein's book No Logo for a background to all this culture/counter-culture homogenization. MTV-Punk, NIKE-Cool....






We should all know this.

Janacopolis

Punk, or rather "punk", hasn't been interesting for years. With punk bands all you need are the essential greats from the few decades that punk actually existed. Anything considered punk these days is in no way original, no matter how "hardcore" it is. Its boring. The bands are copycats, not artists. They're living in the past without altering it in any way, just striving for a certain aesthetic.

The best music these days come from bands that even though are punk influenced feel a need to push it a little further and mutate it into their own.

Music moves onwards and upwards lads.

Just my opinion.

ferdi

your sentiments will fall on deaf ears here, janacoplis.

blu_sonic

Janacopolis wrote:

Punk, or rather "punk", hasn't been interesting for years. With punk bands all you need are the essential greats from the few decades that punk actually existed. Anything considered punk these days is in no way original, no matter how "hardcore" it is. Its boring. The bands are copycats, not artists. They're living in the past without altering it in any way, just striving for a certain aesthetic.

The best music these days come from bands that even though are punk influenced feel a need to push it a little further and mutate it into their own.

Music moves onwards and upwards lads.

Just my opinion.

thats the point, why did punk evolve into what trash it is considered today. There are great punk bands there many mentioned above, its something you ed to go routing to find, which makes it even better IMO. just what is being taken as punk in the mainstream is so silly and so tame, the image is even dead, its pasé to look like an old school punk because of the EMO kids (saw 2 with mock blood on their faces today, i felt like crying for them, lol)

I saw loads of great punk bands in London and loads of real punks down camden town and it still staggers me how great it is that they stand out and look so different. Punk music and fashion seems too have been absorbed into the mainstream and processed into a parent friendly, grandmother accepted pusedo-rebelion. The types of rebels who have nothing to rebel againts poor D4 kids

ferdi

look, i have absolute sympathy with what your saying, but every generation in every genre goes through these transitions and there is nothing anyone can do to change it

Janacopolis

blu_sonic wrote:

thats the point, why did punk evolve into what trash it is considered today. There are great punk bands there many mentioned above, its something you ed to go routing to find, which makes it even better IMO. just what is being taken as punk in the mainstream is so silly and so tame, the image is even dead, its pasé to look like an old school punk because of the EMO kids (saw 2 with mock blood on their faces today, i felt like crying for them, lol)

I saw loads of great punk bands in London and loads of real punks down camden town and it still staggers me how great it is that they stand out and look so different. Punk music and fashion seems too have been absorbed into the mainstream and processed into a parent friendly, grandmother accepted pusedo-rebelion. The types of rebels who have nothing to rebel againts poor D4 kids

Sorry blu_sonic, I think you COMPLETELY misunderstood/misinterpreted my words. I wasn't talking about the Emo/Pop Punk stuff, I think its generally regarded that stuff is rubbish. I was actually refering to the "hardcore" punk stuff of today, not necessarily mainstream.

I'm not going to start spouting 'punk is dead...' etc because I know its spirit and mentality live on, but the bands these days (of the type you were refering to) have very little to offer music-wise, almost no originality or discernable talent. Some might as well be covers bands. And as regards the image, people used to dress like that to rebel and be different. Most "proper punks" nowadays only dress that way to achieve the punk aesthetic, and so can almost be considered as bad as the emo kids, as horrible as they are.

Too many people have a romantic view of punk, and are too afraid to embrace some of the great music real punk has spawned, not just bands that imitate it.

Like all music, punk can't stay the same forever.

blu_sonic

well your words are indeed correct, I don't mind the immatators, im fine with them (if they aren't cover bands) they may churn out something that does challenge me or that makes me notice, on the whole though it is just the same and as you said its just more of the same from all music types, unfortunitly most music has been done. To reall challenge a listener or to start a new genre is near impossible but I suppose the thing about punk that I'm trying to say is that EMO etc. compleatly destroyed its credibility as an art form.

I know what your saying punk isn't m no.1 genre by any stretch of the imagination but i've always respected and enjoyed it (im more indie/rock) but who really was the last innovator in music? I'd guess Ian Curtis, Morrissey or the Stone Roses, after that it was like listening to bands who are influenced by (insert nmae here) ie. Oasis, Green Day (god forgive me), The Killers, etc etc blah blah balh.....

ferdi

there is lots of innovation in music, just not much in mainstream guitar music.

lacuna

blu_sonic wrote:

Punk music and fashion seems too have been absorbed into the mainstream and processed into a parent friendly, grandmother accepted pusedo-rebelion. The types of rebels who have nothing to rebel againts poor D4 kids

Is it not possible for more than one generation in a family to like punk music/style?
And is it only possible to be a "real" punk if your parents and grandparents don't approve?

dregin

lacuna wrote:

Is it not possible for more than one generation in a family to like punk music/style?
And is it only possible to be a "real" punk if your parents and grandparents don't approve?

I do randomly catch the mother humming random punk tunes I've been playin endlessly :P

Ro: maaan!

I sometimes find I like some of the punk stuff my mom listens to.

Anarchist

Janacopolis wrote:

S

Like all music, punk can't stay the same forever.

But it hasn't.
I am 42 and into Punk since early '78 til now and have seen the evolvement of Punk from
78: Pistols/Clash/Damned/Ramones etc
to
79
UK Subs/Cockney Rejects/Angelic Upstarts etc
who also ran in tandem with the anarchistic Punk bands such as Conflict/Crass/Zounds/Subhumans/Discharge etc etc
Then early 80's you had The Exploited/Peter and The Test tube Babies/Black Flag/Circle Jerks etc
who also ran in tandem with Oi music
and inbetween then and today so many bands who I mentioned in my 1st post.

Punk has being perfect for me, but maybe thats because I am Punk thru and thru and know about it.

blu_sonic

lacuna wrote:

Is it not possible for more than one generation in a family to like punk music/style?
And is it only possible to be a "real" punk if your parents and grandparents don't approve?

im talking about the crap thats not really punk but mtv tags as punk, i call it rubbish

Anarchist

True, nothing bugs me more then that, Jello was so right when he said MTV would kill music.
Americans are the worse to blame as well with their bands that are "Punk"

ANarcho-Munk

Anarchist wrote:

True, nothing bugs me more then that, Jello was so right when he said MTV would kill music.
Americans are the worse to blame as well with their bands that are "Punk"

Aye, but some great punk bands have come from america too, and 80's american punk music is purely brilliant.

And America aren't responsible for the Mcbusted and Mcfly ****e.

ferdi

Anarchist wrote:

True, nothing bugs me more then that, Jello was so right when he said MTV would kill music.
Americans are the worse to blame as well with their bands that are "Punk"

ah jesus, get over it will ye

Asmodean

Lads. Its alright. Just relax. We all know very well that **** happens but there's not a lot a few people can do about it now matter how much they complain. Just be yourself, enjoy the music YOU'RE into and to hell with everyone else.

pbsuxok1znja4r

blu_sonic wrote:

thats the point, why did punk evolve into what trash it is considered today

It didn't evolve, that's the point. What it did do, arguably, was spawn different genres of music, both with credibility and without. I suppose on one extreme you have pop-punk and emo music and the like and on the other you have whichever genre you do esteem highly. Personally I think the best thing that came out of it all was post hardcore or progressive hardcore. For me, it's bands like Thrice, Glassjaw and Alexisonfire, while not necessarily as "untamed" as you'd like, who now push the envelope that bit further, musically. And those are relatively mainstream bands within the "scene".

wrote:

There are great punk bands there many mentioned above, its something you ed to go routing to find, which makes it even better IMO.

Why does having to root to find them make it any better? There's that BS 'punk' mentality again of associating credibility and inherent merit with whatever is the most 'underground' or unknown.

wrote:

just what is being taken as punk in the mainstream is so silly and so tame,

I think the distinction between punk and pop-punk is clear enough for people to realise that's not punk in it's "purest" form. I don't know why you're so worried about about what other, more casual music fans think of punk. Anyone dumb enough not to know the difference between punk and pop-punk doesn't have an opinion worth worrying about anyway. So chill.

wrote:

the image is even dead,

And good riddance. Fuck image. This is music we're talking about. If you're grieved that you can't dress like a punk without being taken for an emo fan then you're nothing but a poser anyway. Boo hoo.

wrote:

its pasé to look like an old school punk because of the EMO kids (saw 2 with mock blood on their faces today, i felt like crying for them, lol)

I don't see how mock-blood accessories are any more laughable than your old-school punk getups. You'd look every bit as ridiculous as they do, so laugh it up.

wrote:

I saw loads of great punk bands in London and loads of real punks down camden town and it still staggers me how great it is that they stand out and look so different. Punk music and fashion seems too have been absorbed into the mainstream and processed into a parent friendly, grandmother accepted pusedo-rebelion. The types of rebels who have nothing to rebel againts poor D4 kids

Why do you care if parents like the same music? Are you just out to be teh b1gg3st rEbeL possible? What's the big ****ing hooplah about looking "different"? Cop on and realise that everyone's different regardless and anyone who needs to dress strangely to prove it is just trying too hard. Clearly, if anyone has bought into the idea that the fashion is important, it's you.

ferdi

people like being a small elite. they like being in a club with a limited membership who have a monopoly on what is punk. there is a desire to be seen as the ones who are keeping the scene alive

Janacopolis

ferdi wrote:

people like being a small elite. they like being in a club with a limited membership who have a monopoly on what is punk. there is a desire to be seen as the ones who are keeping the scene alive

Look I've been fighting saying this through this whole thread but, oh well... Punk. Is. Dead. At least in the way most people look at punk. So is grunge. Its no big deal. Just face it lads.

Without the punk movement, music today would not be the same, that is without doubt. It was one the most important things to happen to music in my opinion. But lads, concentrate on the seeds it planted and the great stuff it has spawned, not just the "hardcore" or "underground" sh!te that imitates well known heroes of the past. Its pathetic.

Since a real and relevant scene died down, punk has been all about image and aesthetic, and that translates directly into the piss-poor quality of music which conforms to the aural aesthetic of past punk bands (which was amazing at the time), but lacks relevancy or anything genuine. Any current "scene" is a sham.

And I am not just trying to get under peoples skin here.

dregin

Which "underground" bands are you basing this on? You're generalising in the last post is absolutely hilarious, tbh.

DublinWriter

Anarchist wrote:

But it hasn't.
I am 42

...and I'm 36. Don't worry, the nurse will be around with the medicine trolley later.

Punk is anything they won't/can't play on MTV.

Punk began with Iggy and the Stoogies and ended with the break up of the Dead Kennedys.

Punk has a political agenda.

Punk is *not* about mohicans. The whole mohicans thing came about from a single article in The Sun in 1978 called "How to be a Punk". It never existed before that.

Bands like Green Day and No Doubt are not punk. Maralyn Manison is certainly not punk. I remember watching a documentary on him tourning Japan, meeting with a load of suited execs from Sony Music, shaking their hands, smiling and telling them how he "expected to shift a lot of units for them next year".

...now, where's that nurse with the medication?!

OLP

DublinWriter wrote:

Punk began with Iggy and the Stoogies and ended with the break up of the Dead Kennedys.

Ahem, BULL****. There are still plenty of healthy Punk bands around with a large following.

blu_sonic

It fills me with pride to see some of the great posts here, it seems to be the "older" crowd talking the most sence, though i think punk had roots prior to Iggy I'd agree whole heartedly with the majority of your post Dublin writer, and Janacopolis i think you've summed up what i was trying to say a few times, the traditional punk is dead as suck, but what it spawned is very much alive, it reinstated a rebel spirit and danger to music that hadn't been there since Elvis was considered Risque!

The current crop of bands immitating punk and/or calling themselves punk (im looking at all the EMO/Green Day nonsence here) bands are IMO an embarrasment to what punk was.

Thank god punk happened without it the music industry would have suffered. There would be no "new wave", no Joy division, no "Indie", no Smiths, no Moz and a hundred bands that i could pop out here. Guitar based Rock/Pop (call it what you may would have died out. Sometimes something needs to burn bright and burn fast to every really be noticed. In the words of Neil young "better to burn out, than fade away"

dregin

Wait a minute. One of you is harpin on about MTV **** and the other one is sayin that underground bands aren't any better???? And I thought ya were both blatherin on from the same bible. None of you know much about what the other people here are listening to and yet you seem to have brought some sort of "guiding light" qualification upon yourselves just to make sure we're all on the straight and narrow.

NEWS FLASH: Noone gives two ****s whether you think the bands we listen to are "proper" music/punk/emo(not MCR and the like ) but someone trying to tell me that bands that sound like older bands are irrelevant today can go and fuck themselves.

blu_sonic

I think they are saying the underground isn't bring anything new to the table that it doesn't challenge the listener. The to truely be punk that you need to elvove and confront the listener. well thats how i interpert (sp) whats been said.

ANarcho-Munk

DublinWriter wrote:

Punk began with Iggy and the Stoogies and ended with the break up of the Dead Kennedys.

The Dk's are still touring lol.:p

ANarcho-Munk

blu_sonic wrote:

I think they are saying the underground isn't bring anything new to the table that it doesn't challenge the listener. The to truely be punk that you need to elvove and confront the listener. well thats how i interpert (sp) whats been said.

That's a load of bull****e. There are plenty of bands who have evolved and challenged the listener whilst still remaining underground . Fugazi,Q and Not U, Dag Nasty and Government Issue all being prime ****ing examples.

ferdi

i vote this thread be locked and anyone who starts up a similar thread be banished to the indie forum

blu_sonic

anarcho-Munk wrote:

That's a load of bull****e. There are plenty of bands who have evolved and challenged the listener whilst still remaining underground . Fugazi,Q and Not U, Dag Nasty and Government Issue all being prime ****ing examples.

exactly have evolved and challenged the listener my point exactly (i think your confusing me with the person who said all underground bands are rubbish). What I was doing was condensing all the prvious post into a snippet.

blu_sonic

ferdi wrote:

i vote this thread be locked and anyone who starts up a similar thread be banished to the indie forum

why whats it to you?

ANarcho-Munk

Ah sorry, just got carried away.

Janacopolis

blu_sonic wrote:

exactly have evolved and challenged the listener my point exactly (i think your confusing me with the person who said all underground bands are rubbish). What I was doing was condensing all the prvious post into a snippet.

Sorry I never said "here lads all underground bands are sh!t...", I never said that. Note how I used "" quotation marks when saying "underground". I was talking about band largely considering themselves to be punk, in the trad sense. I'm talking about bands I get shown by mates, churning out that same punk sound, not even attempting to alter it.

Fugazi are f*cking unbelieveable, one of my favourite bands (first gig I ever went to actually ) and they do remain somewhat underground. I wouldn't consider them punk music though (in the fear it would lazily lump them in with a lot of lesser bands), if you wanted to be specific. Now there is a progressive, punk style band.