Website Development

Ziycon

Im looking to get a site designed and built, just wondering if anyone can give me a realistic price before i go to the companies, heres the spec's:

MySQL driven site, using 128bit SSL over the whole site for all data back and forwards from the DB built in either php or jsp.

Goodshape

If you were looking for a price from me I'd need a good deal more info than that.

You've basically stated how you want it built, which is something the web developer would more than likely tell you, but you haven't even hinted at what the site is for.

"a site" is far too vague.

Zaltais

€28,474.26

This breaks down as follows:
€ 8,792.67 for MySQL
€11,695.23 for PHP or JSP
€ 3,993.18 for 128 bit encryption in
€ 3,993.18 for 128 bit encryption out
</sarcasm>

As GoodShape says, way too vague...

Ziycon

i'll get as much info as possible but its very sensitive the nature of the site!

DOLEMAN

I would imagine a PHP developer will be cheaper than a JSP developer.

Also, have a look here - http://www.scriptlance.com

Rollo Tamasi

php development and hosting is far cheaper than jsp.

seamus

Your major costs break down as follows:

Design (i.e. layout, images, colours and fonts)
Programming

In terms of programming, the cost can vary wildly. If you are looking for a large application to be coded from scratch, purely for use for your company, then you will pay a lot for it.
If your particular solution can be implemented using open source software that currently exists, but you need it to be customised to your site design and tweaked a little to provide some extra functionality, then you'll suffer on the customisation and tweaking.
If you can use open-source software out of the box, then the programming won't cost you very much at all.

"Database-driven" can mean a lot of things. Database-driven sites with two tables and five pages are as common as those with 25 tables and 50 pages, but the cost is completely different.

Ziycon

its going to be about 4 - 6 pages running off max 25 databases using SSL 128-bit!

Rollo Tamasi

Ziycon wrote:

its going to be about 4 - 6 pages running off max 25 databases using SSL 128-bit!

how does that work?
anyways....what exact coding do you require. 6 pages....mmm, is it a CMS? A purchasing system?

Ziycon

cant say anymore then ive said!

Rollo Tamasi

then whats the point in starting up this thead when your objective was to get a quote on some programming you require?

I'm sure the code you need has been done before, i don't think anyone is going to rob your idea...i doubt it's an highly original one.

Ph3n0m

wow this is as vague as anything I have read before

Why on earth would you need 128bit SSL unless you were dealing with credit card details or insanely secretive information

You will never get any kind of accurate quote unless you post up the full specs, and requirements of the project - in other words to get people interested you will have to advertise the project

Goodshape

ssshhh... it's obviously a sekret site!

Unfortuntly (for you), quoting a price for a website is like quoting a price for building a house. You can't just say "how much for a house?.. I want it built with bricks.. four walls.. couple of windows.. that sort of thing". It totally depends on the size of the job.

Best bet for you is probably to do a bit of homework, find yourself a web developer you're happy with and propose your idea to them in full (rather than here on a public internet forum).

Rollo Tamasi

Goodshape wrote:

You can't just say "how much for a house?.. I want it built with bricks.. four walls.. couple of windows.. that sort of thing". It totally depends on the size of the job.

I know a guy who knows a guy who can build houses....he might be able to do one with the 4 walls you require, windows and doors are negotiable.

Ziycon

Thanks for the help.

Seth Brundle

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

I know a guy who knows a guy who can build houses....he might be able to do one with the 4 walls you require, windows and doors are negotiable.

hmmm - he might cut a few corners and the house could end up being round!

GoneShootin

Ziycon wrote:

its going to be about 4 - 6 pages running off max 25 databases using SSL 128-bit!

Jasus. The Pentagon site only uses 24 databases!

Seth Brundle

He works fr the Pentagon - thats why its a secret!

AngryAnderson

4-5 pages using 25 databases? Oooooooooookay...

yeraulone

the smugness in this thread is beautiful.

AngryAnderson

It is, isn't it?

Ziycon

Heres the tech. specs. so far. Can you quote on this?

- Runs off multiple SQL Databases(mySQL), it will all be hosted on a dedicated unix server storage space is 580GB and 4GB RAM
- 128-bit SSL on all data to and from the database(s), using verisign certs
- search function, to be able to search all database(s) by two of the category fields
- to display the results onto a page, say there is 100 results, then maybe
15 are displayed and then at the top and bottom of the page you would have pages 1,2,3.....
- Admin side to be able to add records to the databases from a standard pc, prefer to have a non-web based app. for this, using SSL too
- Very quick response time in the sense that the pages aren't slow loading with the results from the query
- complete website design too
- full database design too

evilhomer

If you do actually have that many databases (25), then the complexity can get out of control very quickly. Plus the effort of designing 25 databases is gonna cost you!

Without more details on the type of content and the volume of data(would impact performance) to be in these DB's anyone would be shooting in the dark.

Data entry and data migration (if there is any) also adds to the expense.

In order to get anysort of realistic quotation you would have to provide a full spec.

Ziycon

Lets say there are only 5 DB's to be used. All data entry will be done by ourselves and there is no migration needed!

Rollo Tamasi

Ziycon wrote:

- Admin side to be able to add records to the databases from a standard pc, prefer to have a non-web based app. for this, using SSL too

why non-web based? is there a reason for this? why 5 databases, why not one?
and what exactly is the website for? and if you say you can't tell us then your not going to get a proper quote.

Ziycon

As i said i cant say what its for im bound by contract, and the reason 5 databases is because thats the minimum we can use, so were going to start with five and then introduce more in the future. And non-web based app. for security reasons. All im looking for is even a rough idea how much.

Webmonkey

wtf? This is a joke.
How can you expect to get a quote with these details. The ones you posted are just a few technical requirements.
25 databases, that's just crazy, 5 is too.
You can use one database with different tables, maybe you are getting mixed up with tables? and databases?
I don't know how a site with 6 pages manages to use 5 databases?.

Anyways you need to let us know the purpose of the site at least.

Rollo Tamasi

Ziycon wrote:

And non-web based app. for security reasons

i don't understand this, your tech spec states you are using ssl. If your db is on the net then you will still need to make a connection to your db from your local machine by using the internet, having a non-web based app will make no difference.

evilhomer

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

having a non-web based app will make no difference.

Agreed, actually in somecases it may even be more insecure.

A really good host will have there mySQL and webservers locked down very, very well.

democrates

For greater security you could look at x509 or openpgp client certs, but that pki implementation would cost big time. VPN's are another route to secure remote access, but darn expensive, and ipsec is also crackable anyway. SSH is another kettle of fish. In any event a custom client app using such protocols would cost a lot up front.

Banks don't even bother with these, and just use a web app over ssl for clients. Compare that with the value of access to your clients data. Would a hacker be bothered with the prize? Using a web app also means clients just need a 128b ssl compliant browser so it doesn't matter if they're using mac, windows, or linux, that's why the technology is taking over in this area.

One database will suffice, and each client will only see their own 'database'. To explain how this works, one table will have clients, say estate agents, each with a unique id starting from 1 upwards. Another table has client data, say a list of properties for sale, but will also have the client id on each one so the system knows what property for sale belongs to what estate agent. The data for each client can thus be kept completely seperate on the database, it's exactly the job they were designed to do, and your developer will design the code securely to see this carries through.

The search function accross all clients datasets is a doddle, and displaying 15 results per page equally easy, but it's up to you decide what page to display if on page 3 out of 5 the user clicks another category heading to sort the results differently, say price instead of number of bedrooms (I'd send them back to page 1 of the 'new' result list).

akari no ryu

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

php development and hosting is far cheaper than jsp.

This is true.
However, as a general rule, JSP developpers tend to be better, what with Java being a more strict programming language and all.

dahamsta

Ziycon, you seem to be confused as to what a database is. If you explain what you mean, these people will explain why you're wrong and what you actually want.

Ziycon

Ken Shabby wrote:

Ziycon, you seem to be confused as to what a database is. If you explain what you mean, these people will explain why you're wrong and what you actually want.

I know very well what databases are and under stand all about sql with tables, triggers, stored procedures etc... These are the specs i have been given. I know im prob wrecking your heads but i do appriate all the input but i really cant give anymore specs right now. Thanks so far.

dahamsta

Thank for the keywords Ziycon, you're very clever. Next time someone else will try to help you explain something you're pretending to understand.

GoneShootin

akari no ryu wrote:

as a general rule, JSP developpers tend to be better, what with Java being a more strict programming language and all.

Wow - that sure is a general rule. As general a rule as I have ever seen.

<?php echo "p_0"; ?>

comer_97

i've worked with a lot of marketing types in my time and they often referred to a spreadsheet as a database??? Could that be what's going on here?

25 databases? Are you working for NASA?

Rollo Tamasi

can this '$thread' be a sticky ... maybe in the humour section?

nikimere

comer_97 wrote:

25 databases? Are you working for NASA?

I think he's going to index the whole world and everything ever in his website

i all fairness if your going to put a price on a site that uses 25 databases your going into 6 and maybe even 7 figure sums

dahamsta

Please don't be critical. Ziycon is obviously an expert in his field.

Beta2

Hi

I'm look for a quote for some string.

I wish to use some string, yarn to be precise in a project i'm working on, My favourite type is Tribeca from the Lily Chin Signature Collection, Its a Luxury Mohair blend composed of Wool, mohair, viscose, polyester. (I'm not too keen on the polyester but it'll keep costs down). My project must be fire resistant and delivered in a royale Blue colour, I'd like it to be triple stiched, if thats sounds too hard single stich will do, I can add further stiches later.

How long is the piece of string I need to buy?

B2

evilhomer

GoneShootin wrote:

Wow - that sure is a general rule. As general a rule as I have ever seen.

What happens if you code in JSP and PHP?
Am I a crap JSP developer or a great PHP developer??

My head hurts!

Gordon

Ziycon what's your rough budget?

DOLEMAN

If this project is a secretive and advanced as you suggest, a budget of at least 20k is in order.

Rollo Tamasi

and anyway, if its soo secretive why are you posting on a forum about the project...fair enough you're not giving much away as you are under "contract" but it's still slightly odd.

what is your affiliation to this project? You don't have any PHP/JSP knowledge yourself by the sounds of things so your not the developer, you don't seem to know too much about database (sorry, but it is damn obvious) and you are under contract with another party? so what exactly are you doing?

aidan_walsh

I swear, half the comments on this thread are nearly as funny as this. And I'm not talking about the OP.

Bob the Builder

This project is like the house with four walls, your contract cant be taht strict if it wont let you say what type of heating your going to put in. Dont mention any names and we wont know what ur on bout
Fair enuf?

a website with 25 MySQL d/bases is 1) confusing 2) expensive

6 pages to 25 MySQL? Bit much!

Ziycon

Ken Shabby wrote:

Thank for the keywords Ziycon, you're very clever. Next time someone else will try to help you explain something you're pretending to understand.

Look i didnt come here for a fight and im sorry if i came across as snoty, all i was trying to say was that i do have a good knowlegde of what in talking about. I didnt make these specs these are the specs that were given to me(they could be wrong by the person that gave me them, cant find out as the person is uncontactable till next week) and i can see where most of yous are coming from about the amount of DBs, (in my own opinion, it can start with one DB but will need a min. of 5 in the end, these DBs are all on seperate servers) the min. budget is €30k.

My position:
I was asked to design and develop the site but due to the fact that im crap with graphics we decided to get a company or freelance developer to do it all.

GoneShootin

Ziycon wrote:

I was asked to design and develop the site but due to the fact that im crap with graphics we decided to get a company or freelance developer to do it all.

Then what you should do is outsource the website design, but create the backend logic and db structures yourself if you're comfortable with that area. Getting another company to do everything for such an apparently large scale project without hardened requirements will be a disaster. Even for the most "secretive" of projects there exists a greater transparency of what is required for companies to apply for tender. All we care about are the technical details - we don't give a toss about the uber secret business model.

The Corinthian

Ziycon wrote:

budget is €30k.

If your budget is €30k then it's probably both advisable and worth your while to write a RFT (Request For Tender) that would more concisely describe what you’re doing and what your expected deliverables are without letting the cat out of the bag. It’s not too difficult to do that.

I would suggest that you get someone more experienced technically than yourself to consult on it as you seem to be a little out of your depth in that regard. Have them sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement). They can also give you a better idea of what estimates you’re likely to get - it could end up being a €5k or €100k gig for all you know.

Then you can advertise your RFT, inviting responses, assess them and pick the best one. The responses will also give you a good feel on the project management style and deliverables you’re likely to get.

evilhomer

GoneShootin wrote:

Then what you should do is outsource the website design, but create the backend logic and db structures yourself if you're comfortable with that area. Getting another company to do everything for such an apparently large scale project without hardened requirements will be a disaster. Even for the most "secretive" of projects there exists a greater transparency of what is required for companies to apply for tender. All we care about are the technical details - we don't give a toss about the uber secret business model.

If it's only six pages of web design you want that will not cost even 10% of your budget. Any reputable web designer will throw together a set of icons and template pages for you in a week or two (depending on how fussy you are about the small details of the design)

Rollo Tamasi

Ziycon wrote:

these DBs are all on seperate servers, the min. budget is €30k.

why? do they need to be on seperate servers or something? when the person who you are working for told you what he wanted did you ask any questions at all. At the moment there is 0% logic behind your concepts and the physical cost could be more than €30k. Where are you going to host this? Are you going to get 5 sepearte dedicated servers in a data centre or 5 VPS's or something?