There are jobs everywhere

Heinrich

'Alot of ppl who lost employment'. EH we have 'full' employment. There are jobs everywhere for gods sake. Or should we go back to the 'good aul days' of the 80s?

Borrowed this from another thread! Is this true?

Spalk0

I will say one thing, and allthough im not that old(23) i have noticed a difference.

At the moment im in the same job nearly 3 years.but prior to getting this job i had quite some difficulty finding work whereas a a year or so before that if i got called for an interview, i got the job.

Now im not sure what its like now, all i know is the last time i was looking for work jobs werent so plentifull like they were say around the turn of the century.

They could have gone up again though, im not sure!.....Im kushty:D

Katykaboom

I am having problems finding work, Im in my job the last 2 years, its begining to drive me insane, I got a promotion in work recently and they are messing me around with it, and wont give me a starting date so I want out!

Spalk0

Katykaboom wrote:

I am having problems finding work, Im in my job the last 2 years, its begining to drive me insane, I got a promotion in work recently and they are messing me around with it, and wont give me a starting date so I want out!

Well good luck looking for a job but it is getting harder.

I think theres defo a slow down on the jobs front.

meditraitor

If you havent got work, your not looking for it, simple as that!

Ag marbh

meditraitor wrote:

If you havent got work, your not looking for it, simple as that!

This is true. People who say that they're desperate for work and can't find a single thing are just lazy because there is some kind of work always available. I have found that jobs in IT have slowed down a bit in the last two years though and maybe specific other area's have slowed down too.

Jonny Arson

meditraitor wrote:

If you havent got work, your not looking for it, simple as that!

Bollix. Say that to my sister who's attended about a dozen interviews and got f**k all.

Every young person who I know has found it incredibly difficult to find work.

Problem is most of the vacancies are in low paid low skilled jobs.

Decent paid jobs are becoming rarer and rarer.

Young people are f**ked. Simple as.

Ag marbh

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Bollix. Say that to my sister who's attended about a dozen interviews and got f**k all.

Every young person who I know has found it incredibly difficult to find work.

Problem is most of the vacancies are in low paid low skilled jobs.

Decent paid jobs are becoming rarer and rarer.

Young people are f**ked. Simple as.

Maybe she should go over her interview techniques or gain some experience in the desired role. Most young people I know that don't have a job are just lazy. What do you call a low paid job and a well paid job for a graduate or young person?

Young people are fucked as far as housing and a few other things but I think our quality of life is decent.

SoupyNorman

Employers see security in age

Tobias Greeshman

meditraitor wrote:

If you havent got work, your not looking for it, simple as that!

OK I will agree that if you are desparate for work and don't give a s*** about taking anything, then you should have no probs getting something (min. wage). But if you've put 3-4 or more years into getting yourself a good degree/qualification and then you can't get anything in the field you studied in because a lack of experience, taking a min wage job is not really that appetizing and a last resort only. In my case I was like this for over 5 months.

Ag marbh

silas wrote:

OK I will agree that if you are desparate for work and don't give a s*** about taking anything, then you should have no probs getting something (min. wage). But if you've put 3-4 or more years into getting yourself a good degree/qualification and then you can't get anything in the field you studied in because a lack of experience, taking a min wage job is not really that appetizing and a last resort only. In my case I was like this for over 5 months.

It's always been the case. Even starting out in IT I was working with people who done a masters degree and were getting paid the exact amount as me. Thats the very reason I chose to gain experience and have now progressed alot further than I would have if I sat through a degree and 5 years before.

Graduate jobs haven't been well paid for years now so you're going to have to start at the bottom anyway.

meditraitor

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Bollix. Say that to my sister who's attended about a dozen interviews and got f**k all.

Every young person who I know has found it incredibly difficult to find work.

Problem is most of the vacancies are in low paid low skilled jobs.

Decent paid jobs are becoming rarer and rarer.

Young people are f**ked. Simple as.

Sorry to hear about your sis dude, but really she has to be doing something wrong.
Sounds like al the young people you know are too stuck up to go out and graft a bit to get experience........ this is the only way to get a decent job , experience
Nobody just walks into the job of their dreams...

Tell your sister to get out there and gain the experience, then she might have a better luck at interveiws than she is having now

I repeat-Loads of jobs out there, if your in a position to gain employment and cant get a job you dont want one, simple as that!

Spalk0

meditraitor wrote:

Sorry to hear about your sis dude, but really she has to be doing something wrong.
Sounds like al the young people you know are too stuck up to go out and graft a bit to get experience........ this is the only way to get a decent job , experience
Nobody just walks into the job of their dreams...

Tell your sister to get out there and gain the experience, then she might have a better luck at interveiws than she is having now

I repeat-Loads of jobs out there, if your in a position to gain employment and cant get a job you dont want one, simple as that!

Ok i sorta see your point to an extent mate.....I especially have one or two mates who are lazy and think its there divine right to walk into jobs that pay aswell as there mates(like mine, even though i aint paid well) and theyd turn their noses at lower paid jobs.That is lazy pure and simple!I had to work those lower paid jobs to get the experience to get where i am now!I couldnt just walk into it without any experience.

But....

On the other hand there are people who genuinely look for jobs as much as possible and they still find it hard to get a job.I experienced it first hand.Id lost a job due to a contract expiring and after nearly 2 weeks of unemployment my parents demanded i sign on the doll!I suppose the prospect of signing on spurred me on even more as i actively avoided signing on despite many arguments and threats of being kicked out by my folks.Point being before that bout of enemployment i found it so easy to find work!It wasnt easy then to find and the likelyhood is now its probably the same.

nachos

I'm in my final year of my IT degree and I didn't have a huge amount of difficulty finding a place in a nice graduate programme. All it really took was a bit of persistence. I filled in dozens of application forms and went to a good few interviews, but in the end I ended up getting two offers!
I went to my career guidance counsellor before starting off and got help with updating my CV, interview advice and the like. Things like that really help alot. And after you do a few interviews, you get better at seeing what the employer wants and knowing how to say the right thing.

muppetkiller

I've never seen Ireland like this before there's no valid reason for any able-bodied person to be on the dole now...And to Zane from MTV2 if your sister is not getting the roles she's applying for maybe she's applying for the wrong jobs. Agree that the better jobs are rarer due to a surplus of highly educated/skilled people but if she's not getting any of the jobs, she must be doing something wrong that she's not making the right impression.

Ag marbh

I don't think people should have any shame signing onto the dole while inbetween jobs, thats what it's there for and if I was inbetween jobs and actively seeking for a specific role I would have no hesitation in signing on.

The above comment was motivated by a few posts of recent I seen regarding the dole and a medical card one.

samb

Sounds like al the young people you know are too stuck up to go out and graft a bit to get experience........ this is the only way to get a decent job , experience
Nobody just walks into the job of their dreams...

Tell your sister to get out there and gain the experience, then she might have a better luck at interveiws than she is having now

It's a catch 22. YOu can't gain experience becasue nobody will employ you because you have no experience. Taking a min-wage job in pub or something is not going to count as experience in most professions. Most graduates would have no problem starting at minimum wage so long as the experience is relevant.

irishguy

Well i am finishing up an IT course this year. I have been offered 3 jobs, 2 of which are at standard grad rates and one which is a good bit higher. Also was out saturday night and i was offered a job for the summer in a resturant that i used to work in. I have even turned down a number of IT job interviews so i dont think anyone should have a problem getting a job.

The only people i know that cant find a job are lazy, you know who are

DamoKen

samb wrote:

It's a catch 22. YOu can't gain experience becasue nobody will employ you because you have no experience. Taking a min-wage job in pub or something is not going to count as experience in most professions. Most graduates would have no problem starting at minimum wage so long as the experience is relevant.

Agree to an extent, but there are always ways around this. I experienced the same when I graduated and that was at the height of the boom, 99 to be exact. Granted there was a glut of IT graduates on the market at the time so companies could pick and choose, the creme de la creme and all that crap.
After 5 interviews with some going second round etc, I decided to try further afield and worked abroad for the next year. Best decision I ever made, not only was I on twice as much as the highest paid graduates here, when I came back I was able to take my pick of jobs and had a much better position when it came to salary negotiations.
Another advantage was gaining international experience working in a multinational abroad, looks very appealing on your cv too. No idea what the graduate scene is like now, from reading the some of the posts it seems to be a lot more lively though.

chump

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Bollix. Say that to my sister who's attended about a dozen interviews and got f**k all.

If she's gone to a dozen odd interviews, then what that shows is that there are jobs - she's just not getting them.

I think the job market is pretty good. Yea there's a problem with graduates being started on low enough salaries, but that because there's too many damn grads and a lot of the stuff they learned is fairly useless - was there myself.

Young graduates have to remember that everybody is nearly a graduate now, and it no longer means you're a step above. And yet there's still the lower ranking jobs to fill.

I think over the next few decades third level education will change so that either
a. you actually learn something that will be of significant importance in your job .. like many professional degrees today, and engineering etc.
or
b. artsie/businessy waffley courses that don't really teach anything but provide a good life for a few years and a bit of life-education will die (or become more foxused as above) or else become shorter.

Sure the fact that fees are re-emmerging means that people will actually want to get their monies worth.

Decimator

People are getting sidetracked here. First of all, jobs are out there. That's indisputable. At the same time, though, labelling those who can't get one as 'lazy' is simplistic.

The reality is that were the same question asked back in the 80s, then we'd still have people saying "Anybody who doesn't have a job doesn't want one." That argument existed even back then, and will always be spouted off, irrespective of whether there's full/minimal employment.

Things are way better now than back then. There are new industries, a better-educated workforce, etc. Where there's a problem for job-hunters is that the old notion of a 'job for life' is gone, so that everybody's always on the look-out for 'something better', and employers are receiving more and more applications than before. This leads to greater competition for jobs, and with people becoming more specific in terms of what they want, there's obviously going to be a lot of disappointment.

Of course if people are willing to accept anything, then they'll get a job. Our culture now, however, dictates that we should "reach for our goals", and with higher, more specified education behind us, we're individually less willing to give up on what we want, and settle for second best. That's maybe not a good thing, but I certainly wouldn't label all people who can't find work 'lazy'. Excessively, and unrealistically, ambitious, maybe, which is a problem of a different kind.

McDonalds are looking for managers, after all, but I don't think they'll have much success. And that won't be because people who turn it down don't want to work...

Heinrich

Interesting collection of answers which seem to be divided into two responses, either too lazy or accept any crap job to gain experience!

The commentary is rather simplistic and from the responses most of the comments tend to be from people in the IT or college grad sectors.

Ageism and obsolete trades have not been discussed. A tradesman who has plied his trade for thirty years and loses his job due to the collapse of his trade will have difficulty in regaining employment,. This can be said for the textile industry,weaving, knitting, spinning etc, as well as the graphic arts for example.

The woeful standard of call center personnel is driving that sector to India where the poor standard is about the same, despite the atrociously difficult to understand accents but is cheaper. The quality has gone as have a good number of those jobs.

Foreign workers are prepared to work for a pittance because of the low standard of living in their home countries. The wages they receive would not enable a local to set up a home and a family.

There are jobs out there but that generality does not say what those jobs are or how a local can compete with clandestine or poorly paid foreign workers. It is fine to pontificate from the comfort of the family home whilst "gaining experience" in Macdo's prior to undertaking the mighty career in El Dorado and if the career does not materialise then there is always Daddy and Mammy to fall back on.

So, can someone loosely suggest a modest job for someone who is of average physical fitness but lacks the university education and wishes to set up a home?

Gurgle

Heinrich wrote:

A tradesman who has plied his trade for thirty years and loses his job due to the collapse of his trade will have difficulty in regaining employment.

A tradesman who plied his trade and lost his job has only himself to blame. He should know the trade inside out but didn't see it coming? He didn't update his skills to stay in business / employment?

Heinrich wrote:

the quality has gone as have a good number of those jobs.

There has never ever been any quality in call centre jobs.

Heinrich wrote:

Foreign workers are prepared to work for a pittance because of the low standard of living in their home countries.

Bull.
Heard that same line trotted out a dozen times, its still not true.
Minimum wage applies to immigrants as much as to Irish.

Heinrich wrote:

So, can someone loosely suggest a modest job for someone who is of average physical fitness but lacks the university education and wishes to set up a home?

Of course, but you'll be working for at least 10 years before you can even think about setting up a home.

You can work for a builder, take an apprenticeship, apply to a factory, McDonalds, lounge staff, barman, courier. Theres thousands of jobs to be choose from and they're all minimum wage.

Same applies to college graduates.
EVERYBODY has to start with a crap-paying job. You leave college with a degree, you'll only start on about 20% more than mimimum wage.

Without 3rd level education, the money will go up very very slowly unless you put in a serious effort into proving yourself better than anyone else around you.

Heinrich

Gurgle wrote:

A tradesman who plied his trade and lost his job has only himself to blame. He should know the trade inside out but didn't see it coming? He didn't update his skills to stay in business / employment?

Well that depends on the trade! Computer technology has killed the printing trade. You can drum up your "bull" argument again but this is a fact. Perhaps the proliferance of free newspapers and unnecessary packaging might suggest that there is still an industry there but there are no jobs.

Gurgle

Heinrich wrote:

Computer technology has killed the printing trade.

No, computer technology has changed the printing trade, making it more efficient, cheaper and less labour intensive. Maybe some guys with decades of experience in old mechanical printing presses thought it would never happen and so never bothered finding out about them.
Would you use the same excuse for someone who's made a living for 30 years cutting turf by hand? Theres still a huge industry in peat but you can't keep up with a slean and a donkey.

Heinrich wrote:

the proliferance of free newspapers and unnecessary packaging might suggest that there is still an industry there but there are no jobs.

Of course theres still an industry, and its doing just fine. You can't expect an industry to expand indefinitely, it has to level off at a sustainable level.

If you've never worked before, you're not in a position to pick a job you want and expect to get it.

It doesn't work like that, you have to go after the jobs that are available.

chump

Heinrich wrote:

The commentary is rather simplistic and from the responses most of the comments tend to be from people in the IT or college grad sectors.

Ageism and obsolete trades have not been discussed. A tradesman who has plied his trade for thirty years and loses his job due to the collapse of his trade will have difficulty in regaining employment,. This can be said for the textile industry,weaving, knitting, spinning etc, as well as the graphic arts for example.

The woeful standard of call center personnel is driving that sector to India where the poor standard is about the same, despite the atrociously difficult to understand accents but is cheaper. The quality has gone as have a good number of those jobs.

Two points...
Firstly relating to your obsolete trade comments - there has been numerous posts on this very board from IT personnel who have bemoaned the lack of jobs available to them as their skillset isn't up to date. These posts always receive the same replies - nowadays you need to keep up to date and on the ball or else you'll fall behind.

Secondly - what woeful standard of call center personnel in Ireland? I'd say it's among the highest standards available. We have substantial amounts of students and graduates working in call centres. The reason for the sector relocating to India is purely fiscal.

TempestSabre

If everyone who can't get a job is lazy, then everyone who isn't a multi millionaire is lazy aswell. Because you just have to work smarter and harder. No other factors involved. :rolleyes:

meditraitor

TempestSabre wrote:

If everyone who can't get a job is lazy, then everyone who isn't a multi millionaire is lazy aswell. Because you just have to work smarter and harder. No other factors involved. :rolleyes:

What are you on about here chief?

TempestSabre

meditraitor wrote:

What are you on about here chief?

Lifes not that simple, for everyone.

meditraitor

TempestSabre wrote:

Lifes not that simple, for everyone.

But the fact remains that if you are fit, healthy and eligible/able to work and dont have a job, you dont want one!

TempestSabre

meditraitor wrote:

But the fact remains that if you are fit, healthy and eligible/able to work and dont have a job, you dont want one!

You can be all those things and still unatractive to an employer. Why employ a unemployed IT programmer to work as a cashier when you can employee a student. Because the programmer will be gone when they get a better job. Why employ a student because they will go back to college and be unreliable. Why employee a housewife because she can't work extended hours, or have a baby and need time off. Etc. Wh employ a person directly at all, when you get people on contract through an agency and pay them peanuts, because you are paying the company not the person. Why hire a person who needs training because its an expense that you won't get back. Etc.

TempestSabre

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20060504.html
http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/

Heinrich

TempestSabre wrote:

You can be all those things and still unatractive to an employer. Why employ a unemployed IT programmer to work as a cashier when you can employee a student. Because the programmer will be gone when they get a better job. Why employ a student because they will go back to college and be unreliable. Why employee a housewife because she can't work extended hours, or have a baby and need time off. Etc. Wh employ a person directly at all, when you get people on contract through an agency and pay them peanuts, because you are paying the company not the person. Why hire a person who needs training because its an expense that you won't get back. Etc.

This is so very true!

If the employment market was so saturated as some here claim then the employers would be begging out for staff and paying good money at that! Supply and demand - more employees than jobs!

Which employers are hiring staff over 50? Let's have some real facts and leave the opinions for the pub...

meditraitor

TempestSabre wrote:

You can be all those things and still unatractive to an employer..

Depends on what value you put on your self, if your willing to work there is plenty of jobs... if you think you too good to go out and graft for 300/400 yoyo's a week then thats your own problem not the job market

TempestSabre wrote:

Why employ a unemployed IT programmer to work as a cashier when you can employee a student..

If the IT programer is unemployed then it points to the fact that he is not the good enough to work in the industry , he should move on and re-skill

TempestSabre wrote:

Because the programmer will be gone when they get a better job..

there is a **** load of temporary jobs available for such people, again its up to the person whether he wants to work or not while waiting for another job

TempestSabre wrote:

Why employ a student because they will go back to college and be unreliable..

Part time job's, summer jobs, and not all students are unreliable!

TempestSabre wrote:

Why employee a housewife because she can't work extended hours, or have a baby and need time off..

The operative word here is housewife, if a woman opts to be a housewife then she takes herself out of the labour market( im all for mothers working if they want, but childminding facilities in ireland are not up to scratch, this is a different issue)

TempestSabre wrote:

Etc. Wh employ a person directly at all, when you get people on contract through an agency and pay them peanuts.

If you are good enough with enough experience this will not happen


,

TempestSabre wrote:

because you are paying the company not the person..

Que?

TempestSabre wrote:

Why hire a person who needs training because its an expense that you won't get back. Etc.

There is training in most job's brother, this is a nessesary expense... you make no sense with this point!

heinrick wrote:

This is so very true!
If the employment market was so saturated as some here claim then the employers would be begging out for staff and paying good money at that! Supply and demand - more employees than jobs!

Which employers are hiring staff over 50? Let's have some real facts and leave the opinions for the pub...

Follow your own advise dude, this is your opinion! can other people not give their's?
And please provide facts
For one, you are implying that over 50's are not employable,
back it up, or move on

TempestSabre

meditraitor wrote:

Depends on what value you put on your self, if your willing to work there is plenty of jobs... if you think you too good to go out and graft for 300/400 yoyo's a week then thats your own problem not the job market..

How does that prevent your CV from being filtered?

meditraitor wrote:

If the IT programer is unemployed then it points to the fact that he is not the good enough to work in the industry , he should move on and re-skill
..

Rubbish. Its upply and demand. No so long ago there were hundreds of VB programmers for every VB job. Does that mean all of the ones that didn't get the interview weren't good enough? Now they can't get VB people because everyones moved to .Net.

meditraitor wrote:

there is a **** load of temporary jobs available for such people, again its up to the person whether he wants to work or not while waiting for another job

Its well known that the supply of "such" jobs is being filled by immigrant workers.

meditraitor wrote:

Part time job's, summer jobs, and not all students are unreliable!

Doesn't matter thats the perception.

meditraitor wrote:

The operative word here is housewife, if a woman opts to be a housewife then she takes herself out of the labour market( im all for mothers working if they want, but childminding facilities in ireland are not up to scratch, this is a different issue)

I actually shouldn't have said housewife, but young mother. But regardless, it does make it harder to find a job. Not everyone is single with no commitments.

meditraitor wrote:

If you are good enough with enough experience this will not happen
)

Being good enough does not negate economics of available cheap labour.

meditraitor wrote:

Que?

Hiring companies who employ people at (non Irish) rates far below the min wage has been widely reported, especially in the construction industry.

meditraitor wrote:

There is training in most job's brother, this is a nessesary expense... you make no sense with this point!

In the majority of jobs I've working in contract and permanent I've always been expected to hit the ground running, with little or no training. I'd say its the norm. That may not be your experience, but its why the training adult education market is so strong, most training is no longer done in house.

Gurgle

TempestSabre wrote:

Hiring companies who employ people at (non Irish) rates far below the min wage has been widely reported, especially in the construction industry.

IIRC the practise was widely reported, investigated and discovered to be 99% myth.

TempestSabre

Gurgle wrote:

IIRC the practise was widely reported, investigated and discovered to be 99% myth.

You still see cases popping up on a regular basis.

BuffyBot

Depends on what value you put on your self, if your willing to work there is plenty of jobs... if you think you too good to go out and graft for 300/400 yoyo's a week then thats your own problem not the job market

You shouldn't discount the fact that many employers balk at taking on "downskilling" employees. For many people it has nothing to do with being "too good" to take on a job, but the employer feeling you are "too good" for the job on offer.

samb

Another major factor is where you live. IF you have kids and your Spouse or partner is working then you cannot work anywhere in the country. If you are based in Cork or Dublin then the job market is large and you should have little problem but if you are in other areas, jobs within your field can be very difficult to find.

chump

samb wrote:

Another major factor is where you live. IF you have kids and your Spouse or partner is working then you cannot work anywhere in the country. If you are based in Cork or Dublin then the job market is large and you should have little problem but if you are in other areas, jobs within your field can be very difficult to find.

This seens to be about the only valid point to back up this argument made in the last 20 posts.

chump

TempestSabre wrote:

How does that prevent your CV from being filtered?

ye wah?

Rubbish. . No so long ago there were hundreds of VB programmers for every VB job. Does that mean all of the ones that didn't get the interview weren't good enough? Now they can't get VB people because everyones moved to .Net.

How is what happened in the past relevant to the job market today?
And why can't they get VB people now? Did they just forget the VB they learned? Or is it because they all changed skills over to .Net and are all in employment and don't need to drag out their old skillset?

Its well known that the supply of "such" jobs is being filled by immigrant workers.

There's still plenty of irish people filling these jobs, where irish people go for them. Are you saying that because immigrants are now working these lower skilled jobs irish people are being looked over? Nonsense.

Doesn't matter thats the perception.

That may be your perception (that students are unreliable) but why then are so many employed part-time and short-term? More nonsense.

I actually shouldn't have said housewife, but young mother. But regardless, it does make it harder to find a job. Not everyone is single with no commitments.

It makes it harder to find a job of course, but hasn't that always been the case. It makes it harder because you have to put a line through certain locations, times, working conditions, and other factors because you prioritise. But this will always be the case. People can't pick up sticks, pop out 10 children, move to an uninhabited island and then complain because there's no suitable jobs in the vicinity.

Being good enough does not negate economics of available cheap labour.

Aside from your point about a small few contruction contracts that were awarded to foreign companies and are carried out by workers from those countries, I would disagree that hiring employees via agencies is any cheaper than hiring them yourself. Have you seen agencies mark-ups? Obviously not.

Hiring companies who employ people at (non Irish) rates far below the min wage has been widely reported, especially in the construction industry.

Uhhh

In the majority of jobs I've working in contract and permanent I've always been expected to hit the ground running, with little or no training. I'd say its the norm. That may not be your experience, but its why the training adult education market is so strong, most training is no longer done in house.

Maybe it's the line of business you're in.
I'd imagine the majority of people, inlcuding myself (even in short term jobs I've had), have to go through some training.
The adult education market is so strong because there's a demand from adults to try out different skills/job-types and for them to diversify.
Many adults would have zero computer skills for example, and so before they compete against young uns who are wizzards, to go for a clerical job of sorts surely they have to learn the basics.
This would ultimately be followed, when starting a job, to being training in the specific needs and skills of a company.

TempestSabre

chump wrote:

ye wah?

How hard is it to follow what you've posted?

Your willingness to work hard for low money, will not prevent your CV from being filtered if a company decided its only looking for certain types of people. Young single people, or experienced people for example. So saying "I'll do anything" isn't a sure way to a job if its being filtered.

chump wrote:

How is what happened in the past relevant to the job market today?
And why can't they get VB people now? Did they just forget the VB they learned? Or is it because they all changed skills over to .Net and are all in employment and don't need to drag out their old skillset?

You're missing the point its not about VB. You said anyone who can't get a programming job is "not good enough to work in the industry". The point is there can be over and undersupply in certain skills like there was in VB only a couple of years back. At the moment everyones looking for experienced programmers, 3+ yrs. In the case of graduate a 1.1 etc. So graduates and people with less experince are finding it hard. By your logic that means if you have >3yrs experience or have a 2.1 you are not good enough. To be honest thats rubbish. Its simply that theres oversupply so employers can be choosy. And they are being choosy, they job specs now are wide ranging and you rarely see roles where they wish to train someone in a particular technology, or junior roles which require little or no experience.

chump wrote:

There's still plenty of irish people filling these jobs, where irish people go for them. Are you saying that because immigrants are now working these lower skilled jobs irish people are being looked over? Nonsense.

chump wrote:

That may be your perception (that students are unreliable) but why then are so many employed part-time and short-term? More nonsense.

chump wrote:

It makes it harder to find a job of course, but hasn't that always been the case. It makes it harder because you have to put a line through certain locations, times, working conditions, and other factors because you prioritise. But this will always be the case. People can't pick up sticks, pop out 10 children, move to an uninhabited island and then complain because there's no suitable jobs in the vicinity.

chump wrote:

Aside from your point about a small few contruction contracts that were awarded to foreign companies and are carried out by workers from those countries, I would disagree that hiring employees via agencies is any cheaper than hiring them yourself. Have you seen agencies mark-ups? Obviously not.

chump wrote:

Uhhh

All those points are related. Obviously its been widely reported that some companies are find low paying jobs hard to fill, and increasingly they are finding only non nationals will take on these roles. You may argue that its because Irish people don't want these jobs. Obvously people prefer higher paying jobs. However in a time when the cost of living is very high, many people can't afford to do these roles for low money. That includes students and people who want to work partime. I've have seen students and people who need part-time finding it hard to get jobs.

As for hiring from agencies, that completely missing the point. You avoid paying the min wage by sub contracting to companies who are based outside the state and who bring in their own workers on low wages. Theres been a few cases in the media. Another is to charge for things like transport/accomodation etc out of the employee's wages before they get it as part of the deal in bring them into Ireland.

While its logical cheaper workers, who can be on the job 24/7 are more desirable, and can make the difference between something unprofitable or not. That doesn't lessen the difficulties that cheaper competition causes people displaced by such practices. You might argue thats simply how the market works, which is a fair point. But it does cause issues.

chump wrote:

Maybe it's the line of business you're in.
I'd imagine the majority of people, inlcuding myself (even in short term jobs I've had), have to go through some training.
The adult education market is so strong because there's a demand from adults to try out different skills/job-types and for them to diversify.
Many adults would have zero computer skills for example, and so before they compete against young uns who are wizzards, to go for a clerical job of sorts surely they have to learn the basics.
This would ultimately be followed, when starting a job, to being training in the specific needs and skills of a company.

I've been in lots of diverse areas over many years. However recently I've been in a position to see what employers are looking for in terms of skill sets, and experience. Its considerably less common to offer training these days. If employers were doing this training in house like you suggest, then there wouldn't be such a demand for private courses. If people felt they could get trained up on the job then they wouldn't be attending these courses either. Its been said before here. You haven't got the right skillset if you can't get a job. So that would suggest that you can't expect to be trained in anymore either.

However its all a moot point. While people are doing well they'll assume everyones in the same boat and dismiss people who are finding it hard. No one worries about someone elses problems until they are in the same position themselves, or are effected themselves. Its difficult to have empathy if you've no experience of someone else problems. Theres always wasters who never try to find work, and moan about it. But not everyone having a hardtime is like that, and everyones life is not as straightforward as other peoples.

Heinrich

TempestSabre wrote:

However its all a mute point. While people are doing well they'll assume everyones in the same boat and dismiss people who are finding it hard. No one worries about someone elses problems until they are in the same position themselves, or are effected themselves. Its difficult to have empathy if you've no experience of someone else problems. Theres always wasters who never try to find work, and moan about it. But not everyone having a hardtime is like that, and everyones life is not as straightforward as other peoples.

How true this is. If only life was as simple as some here would like us to believe!

GrumPy

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Bollix. Say that to my sister who's attended about a dozen interviews and got f**k all.

Every young person who I know has found it incredibly difficult to find work.

Problem is most of the vacancies are in low paid low skilled jobs.

Decent paid jobs are becoming rarer and rarer.

Young people are f**ked. Simple as.

your so right, can never seem to find work, yet all the foreigners seem to have no problem, true most of the work in low paid retail, mcDonalds and such, but finding a job as a young person living in Ireland is v.difficult.

chump

TempestSabre wrote:

How hard is it to follow what you've posted?

Your willingness to work hard for low money, will not prevent your CV from being filtered if a company decided its only looking for certain types of people. Young single people, or experienced people for example. So saying "I'll do anything" isn't a sure way to a job if its being filtered.



You're missing the point its not about VB. You said anyone who can't get a programming job is "not good enough to work in the industry". The point is there can be over and undersupply in certain skills like there was in VB only a couple of years back. At the moment everyones looking for experienced programmers, 3+ yrs. In the case of graduate a 1.1 etc. So graduates and people with less experince are finding it hard. By your logic that means if you have >3yrs experience or have a 2.1 you are not good enough. To be honest thats rubbish. Its simply that theres oversupply so employers can be choosy. And they are being choosy, they job specs now are wide ranging and you rarely see roles where they wish to train someone in a particular technology, or junior roles which require little or no experience.











All those points are related. Obviously its been widely reported that some companies are find low paying jobs hard to fill, and increasingly they are finding only non nationals will take on these roles. You may argue that its because Irish people don't want these jobs. Obvously people prefer higher paying jobs. However in a time when the cost of living is very high, many people can't afford to do these roles for low money. That includes students and people who want to work partime. I've have seen students and people who need part-time finding it hard to get jobs.

As for hiring from agencies, that completely missing the point. You avoid paying the min wage by sub contracting to companies who are based outside the state and who bring in their own workers on low wages. Theres been a few cases in the media. Another is to charge for things like transport/accomodation etc out of the employee's wages before they get it as part of the deal in bring them into Ireland.

While its logical cheaper workers, who can be on the job 24/7 are more desirable, and can make the difference between something unprofitable or not. That doesn't lessen the difficulties that cheaper competition causes people displaced by such practices. You might argue thats simply how the market works, which is a fair point. But it does cause issues.



I've been in lots of diverse areas over many years. However recently I've been in a position to see what employers are looking for in terms of skill sets, and experience. Its considerably less common to offer training these days. If employers were doing this training in house like you suggest, then there wouldn't be such a demand for private courses. If people felt they could get trained up on the job then they wouldn't be attending these courses either. Its been said before here. You haven't got the right skillset if you can't get a job. So that would suggest that you can't expect to be trained in anymore either.

However its all a mute point. While people are doing well they'll assume everyones in the same boat and dismiss people who are finding it hard. No one worries about someone elses problems until they are in the same position themselves, or are effected themselves. Its difficult to have empathy if you've no experience of someone else problems. Theres always wasters who never try to find work, and moan about it. But not everyone having a hardtime is like that, and everyones life is not as straightforward as other peoples.

Hey, think you might be mistaking somethings others said for what I said. Sorry if I came across as a bit of a pedant but sometimes I can't help dissecting what people write and the criticising it.
No offence meant.

Anyway the point I was trying to make about your VB example, was that it didn't make any sense (what you wrote initially). Secondly my overall point on this topic is, Yes I would agree it can be hard to find a suitable job to match ones skillset exactly, particularly if you're not top grade with cutting edge skills. I completely agree that this could be very frustrating. But the jist of what I'm saying is, is people can get a job - it may not be perfectly suited to them or what they want, or even in the location they'd prefer - but there is plenty of jobs out there.

TempestSabre

Didn't think you'd said anything to cause offense? No harm in a debate.

A few years back, when I was contracting an agency get trying to get me to do VBA work and I wanted VB work. That said they they had 400 people on their books for VB but only a couple for VBA work. Does that mean the majority of 400 aren't good enough to work in the industry? At one time Java guys found it hard too. Its cyclical.

I just don't think you should be so hard on people find it hard. They need a hand not slagged off.

newestUser

TempestSabre wrote:

However its all a mute point. While people are doing well they'll assume everyones in the same boat and dismiss people who are finding it hard. No one worries about someone elses problems until they are in the same position themselves, or are effected themselves.

Argh. Moot. It's a *moot* point. I've no idea what a "mute" point is. What is a "mute" point?

Sorry, I'm being a spelling prick today! But I agree with your point. When I left my undergrad degree in 2001 and tried (with not much success!) to find work in IT, people assumed that it was because I was lazy/wasn't trying hard enough/didn't prepare my CV well. Friends and acquaintances in areas which weren't suffering like IT was back then (healthcare, finance,etc.) didn't seem to realise that unemployment amongst recent grads in IT at the time was at 1980s levels, and grad jobs were rare as rocking horse manure! They didn't realise that when jobs are scarce, *everyone* in the jobs market ups their game. Friends of mine looking for accountancy jobs had 4/5 interviews a week, every week, they didn't have to push themselves too hard to get jobs! They didn't have to put too much effort in to making themselves stand out from the competition, because, to be frank, in a lot of cases, the competition weren't too pushed about it either. They also had 4/5 other interviews scheduled later in the week. Sure what the hell, just walk in totally unprepared, give a crap interview, and then boast in the pub later how you got a great job without even breaking a sweat, because you're just so damn sh*t hot....lol I'm not bitter!

...different scenario completely for an IT grad 5 years ago tho!

galavanr

dont gota job? anyone gota any work, north side of dublin>? lol:D

TempestSabre

galavanr wrote:

dont gota job? anyone gota any work, north side of dublin>? lol:D

Why just the northside?

Smoggy

It seems that a large section of this thread is dedicated to IT , as it is, can anyone summarise the IT sector in Ireland / Dublin for developers with 4/5 years dev experience in MS technologies ?

TempestSabre

Smoggy wrote:

It seems that a large section of this thread is dedicated to IT , as it is, can anyone summarise the IT sector in Ireland / Dublin for developers with 4/5 years dev experience in MS technologies ?

Quite decent I reckon. Good demand and decent roles. Just avoid the sweat shop software houses.