Longmile Road to Become One Lane

Brian21156

I was driving along the Longmile Road over the weekend and noticed that the inside lane in both directions has now been designated a bus lane. This is going to create havoc in the mornings and evenings when everybody is trying to move to one lane when both lanes are full as is. Would love to know what consultants got paid to come up with this idea.

road_high

What a stupid idea...As if there wasn't little enough road space there without creating less and devoting it all to buses which only run (usually late) every few mins at peak.

John R

Take the bus, problem solved.

The traffic is caused by all the people driving cars, why should bus users have to suffer delays because of them?


There is a new route to Clondalkin (and Adamstown AFAIK) via Long Mile road due to start soon.

Louisiana

there are now areas of the naas road between kylemore road and red cow that have been reduced to one lane too. its absolutely ridiculous to expect the already tremendous amounts of traffic on this route to get into one lane. for what? one of the worst bus routes in Dublin and theres been kilometers of QBC sitting idle in Clondalkin for well over a year now. they dont deserve to have so much road space when every car on the road pays tax.
the long mile road and naas road are major commuter routes that should be widened not reduced.

road_high

Louisiana wrote:

there are now areas of the naas road between kylemore road and red cow that have been reduced to one lane too. its absolutely ridiculous to expect the already tremendous amounts of traffic on this route to get into one lane. for what? one of the worst bus routes in Dublin and theres been kilometers of QBC sitting idle in Clondalkin for well over a year now. they dont deserve to have so much road space when every car on the road pays tax.
the long mile road and naas road are major commuter routes that should be widened not reduced.

Very good points made here, especially in relation to road tax-I pay 511euro per year in tax for what is in reality a very economical (50mpg) diesel car and am penalised due to the engine size (1.9L)...I could have the same size petrol engine that would guzzle fuel but yet I pay the same rip off road tax...This is hardly a fair and equatable regime.
And anyway what do I get for my road tax??-Endless gridlock (especially when i'm in Dublin) and very poor quality roads.I am disgusted with the failure of this govt to deliver on infrastructure.
On the Longmile road issue, where exactly do they expect the cars to go?Its just utter madness...

dowlingm

fitzy

ideally you'd have road tax and petrol tax as in UK - the former geared to CO2 emission rather than engine size and the latter penal to make up for lower VAT on fuel in UK and I don't think they have VRT either.

Raising fuel tax and refunding some VRT would be the way to go (if you just bought a car then penal fuel tax would be double taxation) but the rural lobby would go bananas and that, my friend, is the reason it will not happen.

markpb

It's been said before but I'll say it again: you can't keep on building new roads and hope the traffic jams will go away. That's naieve and farsical to believe. Bigger, wider roads will attract more traffic causing the same problems as before.

The only solution is public transport. Whatever you might think, bus lanes do carry more people per hour than car lanes. Trains carry even more people again. Public transport, done properly, moves more people faster than cars. If Dublin is to continue growing, the only way forward is more public transport and less private transport.

Dropping a lane on LMR for a bus lane means the buses can operate more effeciently improving the service there and elsewhere. Bus routes, in the majority, are bad because of cars not for any other reason.

OT, you pay motor tax for the privilege of operating a car, not road tax so you've no more right to the road than PT users. Extending silly thinking like that, only sick people should pay for hospitals, only criminals should pay for gardai and jails.

darkman2

Brian21156 wrote:

I was driving along the Longmile Road over the weekend and noticed that the inside lane in both directions has now been designated a bus lane. This is going to create havoc in the mornings and evenings when everybody is trying to move to one lane when both lanes are full as is. Would love to know what consultants got paid to come up with this idea.

Sounds like DCC deserve yet another medal for stupidity. :mad:

murphaph

The problem here is a complete lack of inter-agency cooperation. We know that SDCC have painted out Bus lanes in West Dublin which have no routes on them. SDCC, DCC (and any LA) should b commended for making an effort to provide genuine bus priority measures but I can see the point of the motorist sitting in gridlock with a bus lane to his left which caries no buses. That is inefficient use of the resource, however once a certain number of buses per hour are using the lane then it's tough on the motorist I'm afraid. Buses must get priority over private cars, simple as that.

They can paint the buslanes ten cover the plates until a bus route is ready to take advantage of the lane. This has happened in a god few places I can mention, are the posters sure that the bus lane has it's timeplates in order? If hey aren't there or are covered over it means the bus lane is not in operation and the lane can be used by all.

To those who think the LM should be widened to 'alleviate' congestion, have a :rolleyes: from me! Building roads throuh urban areas DOES NOT alleviate congestion, only quality public transport which gets peeople out of cars can do this and that means reserving roadspace for buses amongst other things!

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

The problem here is a complete lack of inter-agency cooperation. We know that SDCC have painted out Bus lanes in West Dublin which have no routes on them. SDCC, DCC (and any LA) should b commended for making an effort to provide genuine bus priority measures but I can see the point of the motorist sitting in gridlock with a bus lane to his left which caries no buses. That is inefficient use of the resource, however once a certain number of buses per hour are using the lane then it's tough on the motorist I'm afraid. Buses must get priority over private cars, simple as that.

They can paint the buslanes ten cover the plates until a bus route is ready to take advantage of the lane. This has happened in a god few places I can mention, are the posters sure that the bus lane has it's timeplates in order? If hey aren't there or are covered over it means the bus lane is not in operation and the lane can be used by all.

To those who think the LM should be widened to 'alleviate' congestion, have a :rolleyes: from me! Building roads throuh urban areas DOES NOT alleviate congestion, only quality public transport which gets peeople out of cars can do this and that means reserving roadspace for buses amongst other things!

The problem with that argument is that ppl want to use their cars. They pay enough tax to be able to do so. They dont want to use public transport.

Victor

darkman2 wrote:

The problem with that argument is that ppl want to use their cars. They pay enough tax to be able to do so. They dont want to use public transport.

There is no such thing as road tax, it is motor tax. And it doesn't give you the right to any specific piece of road.

I spend several hundred euros per year on bus tax, but I don't even get to own a bus at the end.

darkman2

Victor wrote:

There is no such thing as road tax, it is motor tax. And it doesn't give you the right to any specific piece of road.

I spend several hundred euros per year on bus tax, but I don't even get to own a bus at the end.

Yes but even if you provided a bus stop outside everyones house the vast majority of ppl will still use their cars:cool:

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

The problem with that argument is that ppl want to use their cars. They pay enough tax to be able to do so. They dont want to use public transport.

Oh dear oh dear. This sounds like something my 70 year old father would say. Honestly, this is an attitude straight out of the 1950's. I can't actually begin to argue with this because it is so far beyond the pale in this day and age. Have you not realised though, that with the massive increases in vehicle use, the journey times have soared. I remember as a ki taking a bus (along little or no buslane) from Newcaslte Co. Dublin to Fleet St. Temple Bar in well under an hour. That would be pretty impossible nowadays.

paulm17781

darkman2 wrote:

The problem with that argument is that ppl want to use their cars. They pay enough tax to be able to do so. They dont want to use public transport.

So don't complain about congestion if a faster public transport option exists.

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

Oh dear oh dear. This sounds like something my 70 year old father would say. Honestly, this is an attitude straight out of the 1950's. I can't actually begin to argue with this because it is so far beyond the pale in this day and age. Have you not realised though, that with the massive increases in vehicle use, the journey times have soared. I remember as a ki taking a bus (along little or no buslane) from Newcaslte Co. Dublin to Fleet St. Temple Bar in well under an hour. That would be pretty impossible nowadays.

If the roads are designed intelligently and big enough there would be limited congestion. The anti car looby are making it worse by encouraging councils to narrow roads.

markf909

darkman2 wrote:

If the roads are designed intelligently and big enough there would be limited congestion.

Oh dear. Roads have a finite capacity. There is a limited amount of throughput for any road heading into the city centre. Therefore public transport ie Bus lanes, light rail and metro/heavy rail is the only solution to ensure that our roads do not become even more saturated with even more private cars. Paying motor tax is not a right to own the road Unfortunately most people in the country would have an attitude very similar to yours.

The anti car looby are making it worse by encouraging councils to narrow roads.

You should see what they are doing to your water :rolleyes:

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

If the roads are designed intelligently and big enough there would be limited congestion. The anti car looby are making it worse by encouraging councils to narrow roads.

Erm, you live a thousand year old city, which ever so slightly predates the automobile. Blame the Vikings for the road layout, then start taking the bus. Out of interest, would you like all bus lanes removed and marked out as regular traffic lanes?

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

Erm, you live a thousand year old city, which ever so slightly predates the automobile. Blame the Vikings for the road layout, then start taking the bus. Out of interest, would you like all bus lanes removed and marked out as regular traffic lanes?

Most of them - yes. :mad: Also what about the ones that arent being bloody used. The N32 for example. Though I suppose youd want to keep that there, god forbid we have a proper two lane road in this location.

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

Most of them - yes. :mad: Also what about the ones that arent being bloody used. The N32 for example. Though I suppose youd want to keep that there, god forbid we have a proper two lane road in this location.

I totally accept that there are bus lanes marked out and unused and in my first post I said that this was a waste of resources. Check with your council has the relevant bye-law been passed. These buslanes without buses usually don't have any legal status (and the signs and timeplates should be covered over until they have).

As for converting most buslanes (ie, the ones which are in use!) to regular traffic lanes, where do you think the buses will go? They will just be stuck in the traffic and who's going to pay to sit on a bus that takes as long as a car to get from A to B? Answer, only those too poor to buy a car and add yet more congestion to the roads. Are you beginning to see how this works? No PT priority=more cars=more congestion!

markpb

darkman2 wrote:

Most of them - yes. :mad: Also what about the ones that arent being bloody used. The N32 for example. Though I suppose youd want to keep that there, god forbid we have a proper two lane road in this location.

I know you'll never understand this but if all the bus lanes were removed, traffic would get worse, not better. All those thousands of people on a relatively small number of buses would be forced to drive and it doesn't take a genius to see how that would negatively affect things.

If you don't believe me, look at the annual traffic counts for the last few years. Bus lanes have a higher throughput than car lanes, it's there in the figures in black and white.

Your utopia is simply wrong and thankfully the city planners are very slowly starting to recognise that. Look at the other great cities of the world, they're all built on solid mass transport systems allowing people to live close to work and amenities. Your plan would see Dublin extending over an even bigger area, forcing everyone to drive for hours a day just to earn a living.

Victor

darkman2 wrote:

The N32 for example.

Used by airlink + taxis.

ardmacha

The problem in Dublin is that they never manage any postivity in transport. Imagine if when a QBC was introduced they had a "money back guarantee" if you had to wait more than 5 minutes for a bus on that route and they had big signs advertising that such and such a route was now part of the "quality" service. In reality they build buslanes and don't actaully put any buses on them, aggravating motorists who have longer delays and who do not see buses whizzing past them, instead they continue to pass crowded bus stops, which hardly ecourages them to switch.

fenris

Re: Public transport
Maybe you do not live and work along a direct line into the city centre?
Maybe your work takes you to customers outside the city centre (try getting to city west from Dun L. in less than half a working day)?
Maybe you like to do your customers and associates the courtesy of arriving on time to meetings?
Maybe you don't want to arrive at work with chewing gum on the back of your suit?
Maybe you don't want to play piss soaked seat roulette on the DART?
Maybe you can make productive use of your travel time with a hands free kit?
Maybe other peoples music, body odours and conversations do not turn you on?
Maybe your travel time is the only headspace you get !!!
Maybe somebody will find all the old census forms that would have allowed
the citys transport strategy to be planned around the people who live and work there.

darkman2

Victor wrote:

Used by airlink + taxis.

Ah yeah but that dosnt justify a dedicated bus lane at the expense of the motorists on this stretch of road.

Guy:Incognito

I have a car specifically so I dont have to stand in the pissing rain with 50 or 60 other people who then push and shove to be crammed , standing within an inch or two of someone else on a stuffy, condesation filled bus. The situation would be made 10 times worse if I decide to bring my son and his buggy, extra bag etc.

No thanks.

If everyone is so concerned about the amount of cars why not lobby the government to initiate car-pooling where say, a car with 4 or 5 people can use the bus lane?

I currently pay €830 motor tax, €880 insurance and €1.15 a litre for petrol and feel I am entitled to driive my car when I wish.

Taxis should not be allowed to use bus lanes. People choose to take a taxi and pay an extra premium because they dont want to get a bus, so they should get in line like the rest of us. Whats the difference between me driving my own car into town or me getting a taxi? It's still one car for one person.

darkman2

Stekelly wrote:

I have a car specifically so I dont have to stand in the pissing rain with 50 or 60 other people who then push and shove to be crammed , standing within an inch or two of someone else on a stuffy, condesation filled bus. The situation would be made 10 times worse if I decide to bring my son and his buggy, extra bag etc.

No thanks.

I currently pay €830 motor tax, €880 insurance and €1.15 a litre for petrol and feel I am entitled to driive my car when I wish.

I agree 100 per cent. Enviromentalists have some cheek telling us to go use public transport and yet we just want, and are entitled to use our cars on the best roads. We pay the most tax and therefore we have the bigger say.

John R

Stekelly wrote:

If everyone is so concerned about the amount of cars why not lobby the government to initiate car-pooling where say, a car with 4 or 5 people can use the bus lane?

Because it is a terrible idea that would not work on the short, limited bus lanes in Dublin. In the US it is usually applied on the outside or a completely seperated lane on motorways.

Here it would be unenforceable and create chaos as car-poolers jostled in and out of bus lanes every time they approached a stopping bus.

It would also significantly slow down buses as the bus lanes would be full of cars.

Stekelly wrote:

I currently pay €830 motor tax, €880 insurance and €1.15 a litre for petrol

Bus passengers pay fares so the bus company can pay for tax, fuel and insurance.

Everyone pays taxes in this country, motorists don't have a special right to anything just because it costs a lot of money to drive a car.

Stekelly wrote:

and feel I am entitled to driive my car when I wish.

Nobody has said otherwise. I just don't believe you and others who insist on using cars for city journeys are entitled to block every inch of roadspace to the detriment of others who use less damaging means of transport.

Stekelly wrote:

Taxis should not be allowed to use bus lanes. Peopel choose to take a taxi and pay an extra premium because they dont want to get a bus, so they should get in line like the rest of us. Whats the difference between me driving my own car into town or me getting a taxi? It's still one car for one person.

Fine by me.
I have never thought taxis should be allowed in bus lanes, they do nothing to alleviate congestion.

daymobrew

Stekelly wrote:

I currently pay €830 motor tax, €880 insurance and €1.15 a litre for petrol and feel I am entitled to driive my car when I wish.

I pay similar motor tax, insurance and petrol prices to you but I choose to cycle or use public transport. I am 9 miles from my office (Dublin 15 to East Point).

You choose to take your car and have to taken what comes with that - congestion. When I take public transport I choose to take what comes with that - the timetable that I have to work around and the potential to be beside someone with BO or other invasions of personal space.
I still choose public transport because it is considerably quicker for me.

Louisiana

John R wrote:

Everyone pays taxes in this country, motorists don't have a special right to anything just because it costs a lot of money to drive a car.

I just don't believe you and others who insist on using cars for city journeys are entitled to block every inch of roadspace to the detriment of others who use less damaging means of transport.
QUOTE]

the government has done nothing to aliviate congestion problems in Dublin. they provide a very limited bus service based on a model from 50 years ago that everyone wants to go to the city centre. if there was a better service connecting suburbs with industrial estates outside of the city
1. less people would need cars for these specific routes
2. it would eliminate the need for so many people to get one bus to town and another to their desitination.
i agree whole heartedly with improving public transport but i dont agree with taking valueable road space from drivers for QBC without any improvements being made to the bus service. sure the local bus on the Long Mile or Naas roads might now be faster but theres no more buses on this route than before and its not serving any more people or anymore destinations. we need to look at the bigger picture here.
the government is taxing us heavily to buy a car, taxing us to drive it and taxing us to put fuel in it without providing an adequet alternative.

Idleater

Louisiana wrote:

we need to look at the bigger picture here.
the government is taxing us heavily to buy a car, taxing us to drive it and taxing us to put fuel in it without providing an adequet alternative.

No.

No one is taxing anyone heavily to buy a car. You make a choice to buy a car. In making that choice, you agree with the Terms and Conditions that come with that choice. These T&C's include paying a contribution to local government etc etc etc.

By choosing to buy a car you still do not force yourself not to use public transport, you make a decision yourself whether or not you want to sit in your cage and complain or whether you sit on a bus and complain.

You could buy a moped, pay considerably less tax, get much more MPG and get around much easier if you wanted. Again it is a choice that noone forces you to make.

L.

_Kaiser_

Fenris's post above sums it all up IMO, but for those who are convinced that public transport in Dublin is a viable option, consider the following - I've used this example before admittedly:


I used to live in Coolock and work in Blanch

- There is no DART serving Coolock.

- There is no LUAS serving Coolock.

- There are no Commuter trains serving Coolock.

- There is basically one route serving everything between Northside SC and Clare Hall.. the 27.

- This route, I was told by drivers on it, is considered one of the "problem routes" due to the area is serves and the scumbags who inhabit it.

- This route is often diverted/cancelled at night due to attacks on buses. Although certainly not the driver's/DB's fault and I agree that "what else can they do", as a passenger it is therefore unreliable.

- This route goes nowhere near Blanchardstown. Instead I would have to get a 39 from the City Centre, or a 17A to Finglas and then a 220 the rest of the way.

- Using buses, this journey takes 90 mins at the minimum each way - more at peak hours because remember, you have to factor in waiting times as packed buses pass you! For the purposes of this example, I'm making the (admittedly unrealistic) that the buses run to schedule.

- Using buses you will most likely end up standing through the whole journey at peak hours crushed up against fellow passengers, listening to scumbags, kids screaming, people shouting on mobiles, people's choice in music on mp3 players etc.

Now for comparison:

- With my car I can make the journey in 30 mins or less

- With my car I can leave when I choose to and adapt to traffic situations by choosing an alternate route.

- With my car I am guaranteed a seat

- I am not soaked/freezing cold by the time I get into my car.

- With my car I can listen to what I want - or even nothing at all.

- I do not have to share my car with scumbags drinking/smoking/shouting/fighting.

- I do not have to change cars (at least once) to get to my destination.


I could go on, but I think I've made my point but please - prove me wrong folks!