Library Opening Hours

Daithio

Does anybody have any idea if the Ussher library is open tomorrow (bank holiday Monday), and if so what time is it open?

gilroyb

No library opening on the bank holiday. Which makes sense considering how limited the library hours are. What doesn't seem to make any sense is that it was closed on Sunday for the bank holiday as well. I'm sure xEduCat can explain what appears at first glance to be a very gererous bank holiday break.

Daithio

Yeah I've been pretty inconvenienced by this. Granted I could have gone to the library on Friday instead, but that would be too simple:rolleyes: . I'll have to wait til Tuesday so.

xeduCat

gilroyb wrote:

No library opening on the bank holiday. Which makes sense considering how limited the library hours are. What doesn't seem to make any sense is that it was closed on Sunday for the bank holiday as well. I'm sure xEduCat can explain what appears at first glance to be a very gererous bank holiday break.

It's not a break; any Sunday opening is presently additional to official hours and is discretionary. No-one in the library is required to work Sundays; it's opt-in. Decisions to open for particular Sundays are made by management, although the SU inputs/lobbies/cajoles, of course!

gilroyb

xeduCat wrote:

It's not a break; any Sunday opening is presently additional to official hours and is discretionary. No-one in the library is required to work Sundays; it's opt-in. Decisions to open for particular Sundays are made by management, although the SU inputs/lobbies/cajoles, of course!

Sorry about that, not my most diplomatic post, even for that time of night. Not criticising the library staff, and of course I am aware that it's an additional service, but I do believe that longer hours and a greater range of library services are something management should be moving toward. I suppose that management would say that a certain percentage of the small number of people who use library Sunday's would be at home for the long weekend, but as a Dub this is small comfort. I was in San Diego over the summer, and their early closing time was one in the morning, with many days being open for 24 hours. Trinity really seems incapable of paying for any decent service, with things only working out due to the hard work of the individual staff.

My reference to you personally was tongue in cheek, as has been commented on before you are always extremely courteous to deal with in the library, and rather than saying you'd be taking a two-day day-off at students expense, I was pointing toward the fact that as expected you knew exactly what the actual facts of the matter are.

Right_Side

Why does the library close at 1pm the day after the Trinity Ball?

Thirdfox

It's hardly fair to compare the poor Irish colleges to those of the wealthy American ones! When we start paying $20,000 a year in tuition fees then we can complain about library opening hours!

cuckoo

Thirdfox wrote:

It's hardly fair to compare the poor Irish colleges to those of the wealthy American ones! When we start paying $20,000 a year in tuition fees then we can complain about library opening hours!

Or, the government could choose to fund our 'free' educations a lot better - Trinity does have a lot of students who are paying non-Eu fees that are lots. (lots=technical term for big firgures that i'm too spaced to look up right now).

Thirdfox

I think €7/8,000 for law (shame!)

About €20,000 for medicine (I think!)

But compared to the number of foreign students studying here (2/3,000 at the most?) it isn't a lot.

We don't have the same number as RCSI for foreign students (and they charge higher fees too!)

Doesn't Havard have an endowment of $25 billion?
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:Fd-63L6wV4cJ:insidehighered.com/news/2006/03/16/pell+income+of+harvard+university&hl=en&gl=ie&ct=clnk&cd=5

How can we compare with that?

Andrew 83

UCD library was open till 9 today for the bank holiday and is open to midnight most days this term. It's not just American colleges that can do it.

Thirdfox

In that case... down with the Trinity administration (but not with the librarians, they're really nice people!)

(disclaimer - I am not trying to incite the students of Trinity to revolt against their slave drivers/management of Trinity )

xeduCat

gilroyb wrote:

My reference to you personally was tongue in cheek, as has been commented on before you are always extremely courteous to deal with in the library, and rather than saying you'd be taking a two-day day-off at students expense, I was pointing toward the fact that as expected you knew exactly what the actual facts of the matter are.

Seriously, no offence taken! Don't worry about it. I have lots to say on the subject generally but I'll hold back...

Right_Side

In this 24-hour day and age the opening hours are terribly subpar.

Why don't they just shut down the library services at a certain time and leave the library open for studying. Even just leave one of the BLU complex open due to decreased demand.

I think there should be opening at least 6am for the early morning studiers. Think how good it would be to have a few hours done before college starts.

europerson

Right_Side wrote:

Why does the library close at 1pm the day after the Trinity Ball?

I suppose it's something to do with Trinity Week.

Boston

Right_Side wrote:

In this 24-hour day and age the opening hours are terribly subpar.

Why don't they just shut down the library services at a certain time and leave the library open for studying. Even just leave one of the BLU complex open due to decreased demand.

I think there should be opening at least 6am for the early morning studiers. Think how good it would be to have a few hours done before college starts.

Read the ARAM thread and see what short of state the college is in, with respect to funding. Also, staff would have to be in from 5am, to open at 6am.

Time Magazine

Not quite, Boston. In DIT library they have to be in half an hour before the library opens and even then they "do nothing".

Speaking of ARAM and funding; the BESS course booklet is not going to be printed this year. We were sent a PDF file, and that is all we have. Which, as it happens, is incorrect.

Fair play Heggo, fair play.

Right_Side

LiouVille wrote:

Read the ARAM thread and see what short of state the college is in, with respect to funding. Also, staff would have to be in from 5am, to open at 6am.

Well charge an entrance fee than, I'd pay a few euro to get in early.

You need max. 2 staff.

the BESS course booklet is not going to be printed this year. We were sent a PDF file, and that is all we have. Which, as it happens, is incorrect.

Yeh that PDF thing is a joke. What's incorrect... just so I don't screw up my degree because of it!!!!

ApeXaviour

Right_Side wrote:

Well charge an entrance fee than, I'd pay a few euro to get in early.

They should have the library open at more reasonable hours. Like til 2am, when most students are still awake. What's this 6am crapola? Oh right you're training to be a サラリーマン (salaryman). :rolleyes:

Right_Side

ApeXaviour wrote:

They should have the library open at more reasonable hours. Like til 2am, when most students are still awake. What's this 6am crapola? Oh right you're training to be a サラリーマン (salaryman). :rolleyes:

It would seem 24 hour access is the only way to satisfy everyone.

As I said it would take 2 members of staff at the most. One of the BLU complex open as it is just for studying. Minimal costs... I really wish the SU would push for this instead of some of the other stuff they engage in.

Right_Side

Right_Side wrote:

I really wish the SU would push for this instead of some of the other stuff they engage in.

Please, continue.

europerson

Angry Banana wrote:

Speaking of ARAM and funding; the BESS course booklet is not going to be printed this year. We were sent a PDF file, and that is all we have. Which, as it happens, is incorrect.

Fair play Heggo, fair play.

Right_Side wrote:

Yeh that PDF thing is a joke. What's incorrect... just so I don't screw up my degree because of it!!!!

Basically, it's cut and pasted from last year's. Some of the courses give wrong lecturers, wrong assessment criteria, wrong topics, and, in a couple of cases, wrong course titles!

Right_Side

Myth wrote:

Please, continue.

Non-student activities like banning Coke and Nestle etc. (please don't sidetrack the library issue into a debate on this!)

The library is a big issue for many students these things should be priorities.

Right_Side

europerson wrote:

Basically, it's cut and pasted from last year's. Some of the courses give wrong lecturers, wrong assessment criteria, wrong topics, and, in a couple of cases, wrong course titles!

That should be in the BESS thread! Did anyone contact the BESS office about this?

europerson

Right_Side wrote:

That should be in the BESS thread! Did anyone contact the BESS office about this?

I don't think they really care! In my own experience, the most up-to-date information can be gleaned from the individual departments.

Right_Side

Right_Side wrote:

Non-student activities like banning Coke and Nestle etc. (please don't sidetrack the library issue into a debate on this!)

The library is a big issue for many students these things should be priorities.

Just for my own peace of mind, what do you think the SU (as in the 5 sabbatical officers) do everyday?

Right_Side

Myth wrote:

Just for my own peace of mind, what do you think the SU (as in the 5 sabbatical officers) do everyday?

Listen, I know you guys do loads of work. But a lot of your time, to the outsider, seems to be wasted on bureaucracy.

OT: The library opening hours aren't up to scratch and I don't see the SU doing much about it.

Nietzschean

sit around and get stoned?

Nietzschean

Right_Side wrote:

OT: The library opening hours aren't up to scratch and I don't see the SU doing much about it.

There is the reality of the fact, there's only point in the su fighting battles it has a hope of winning, the funding isn't there....

Right_Side

UCD: http://www.ucd.ie/library/about/opening_hours/index.html

Way better and even open on May 1st. Mon-Fri 8.30-24.00. Sat/Sun 9.00-21.00.

DCU: http://www.library.dcu.ie/about/openhours.htm

Marginally better. Mon-Thurs: 8.30-22.00. Fri: 8.30-21.00. Sat: 10.00-17.00. Sun (only a few): 10.00-17.00.

NUI Galway: http://www.library.nuigalway.ie/about/opening/index.html

Better. Mon-Fri: 8.30-22.00. Sat: 8.30-17.30. Sun (The whole of Semster 2...maybe 1 as well?): 10.00-17.30.

UCC:
http://booleweb.ucc.ie/Openinghours/openboole.htm

Much Better particularly the 2nd/3rd Terms.
1st Term:
Mon-Thurs: 8.30-21.45. Fri: 8.30-20.45. Sat:10.00-17.45. Sun (The whole 1st Term!!!):10.00-17.45.

2nd/3rd Term:
Mon-Thurs: 8.30-22.15. Fri: 8.30-21.15. Sat(2nd Term): 10.00-19.00. Sat(3rd Term): 10.00-21.00. Sun: 10.00-19.00.

Note for UCC: 21.45 is effectively the same time as our library closes.

UL: http://www.ul.ie/~library/openinghours.html

Much Better. (Only info on 2nd Semster up 3rd Jan-31st May).
Mon-Fri: 8.30-23.00. Sat: 10.00-19.00. Sun: 11.00-18.00.

NUI Maynooth: http://www.nuim.ie/library/news_items/hours.shtml

Worse due a very early Friday close.
Mon-Thurs: 8.30-22.00. Fri: 8.30-19.00. Sat: 10.00-17.00. Sun: Only open a handful of days.

Conclusions:
A lot of other universities are providing much longer hours.

The reason:
They are shutting the Service desks earlier than the library closes!

Boston

Angry Banana wrote:

Not quite, Boston. In DIT library they have to be in half an hour before the library opens and even then they "do nothing".

In trinity colelge dublin, they are in an hour before hand. I know this, because I showed up at 8:30 once

Right_Side wrote:

Well charge an entrance fee than, I'd pay a few euro to get in early.

You need max. 2 staff.

Yeh that PDF thing is a joke. What's incorrect... just so I don't screw up my degree because of it!!!!

No offense, but after 21 years on this planet I'm really bored of people like you. You come along with "all it will take is afew quid" based on nothing at all.

It would costs millions to have to all* the libraries in the college open the 4 and half extra hours (3.5 + 1 to get ready) each days you demand. Would you be willing to pay 50 euro or more to go to the library early, no you wouldn't, and even if you would, others wouldn't. As for two extra staff, the staff replace the books on the shelfs, that takes a long time, it's not magic ,and needs to be done at the start of every day. Hamilton alone has at least three people doing it in the morning and two more behidn the counter shorting that mess out. How many libraries are their in the college? Now you get a picture of how many people would have to be employed.

In a day and age where we're looking at major cuts accross nearly all faculties, providing extra services when course are being cut, seems bizarre to me.

*You can't open just one library and not them all, it would be fair on students without books in that library. And theres plenty of 24 hour study spaces around college.

Right_Side

Right_Side wrote:

Listen, I know you guys do loads of work. But a lot of your time, to the outsider, seems to be wasted on bureaucracy.

OT: The library opening hours aren't up to scratch and I don't see the SU doing much about it.

I didn't mean my comment as trying to change your mind, as that's your opinion and so be it. But I was just curious about what you think we do, since you only mentioned Coke & Nestle (and also I was curious if you'd converse as if I was anonymous, which, eh, wasn't to be).

[edit] Just to answer the point about the SU, I spent some time this year trying to sort out with College to obtain a room in the Hamilton for 24 hour study access, which I've had my eye on for two odd years. Unfortunately, Physics yoinked it in the end. I'm more of the opinion that if you give people the option of getting books into lending (which was advertised to class reps and beyond, though few took it up) and then provide a separate area which would cost less money then hiring a few people including security, it makes more financial & longterm sense then increasing the opening hours, given the lack of funds.

Right_Side

LiouVille wrote:

No offense, but after 21 years on this planet I'm really bored of people like you. You come along with "all it will take is afew quid" based on nothing at all.

Get over yourself for a start.

2 staff @ €20(?) an hour. Light and heat. Thats a pretty small variable cost if you ask me.

It would costs millions to have to all* the libraries in the college open the 4 and half extra hours (3.5 + 1 to get ready) each days you demand. Would you be willing to pay 50 euro or more to go to the library early, no you wouldn't, and even if you would, others wouldn't.

The whole idea is that just one library is opened for study only.

As for two extra staff, the staff replace the books on the shelfs, that takes a long time, it's not magic ,and needs to be done at the start of every day. Hamilton alone has at least three people doing it in the morning and two more behidn the counter shorting that mess out. How many libraries are their in the college? Now you get a picture of how many people would have to be employed.

If only one was open this wouldn't be a problem on the same scale. Employ one more replacement person for a few hours when the service desk opens... problem solved.

In a day and age where we're looking at major cuts accross nearly all faculties, providing extra services when course are being cut, seems bizarre to me.

As I said charge those who want to use it extra. I'd pay extra in my registration fee for a special card giving me longer access.

*You can't open just one library and not them all, it would be fair on students without books in that library.

The whole idea is that it's just for study. I would care if the law library was open and my books are in the Lecky.

And theres plenty of 24 hour study spaces around college.

Where is there "plenty" of decent 24 hour space?

Andrew 83

Right_Side wrote:

Non-student activities like banning Coke and Nestle etc. (please don't sidetrack the library issue into a debate on this!)

The library is a big issue for many students these things should be priorities.

Despite being mandated to the SU do little to know campaigning on the Coke and Nestle boycotts. Therefore it's purely a case of not sticking their products in the shops. How much time is this taking up? I would say none, therefore the boycotts have zero impact on the ability of the SU to deal with other issues.

Right_Side

Myth wrote:

[edit] Just to answer the point about the SU, I spent some time this year trying to sort out with College to obtain a room in the Hamilton for 24 hour study access, which I've had my eye on for two odd years. Unfortunately, Physics yoinked it in the end. I'm more of the opinion that if you give people the option of getting books into lending (which was advertised to class reps and beyond, though few took it up) and then provide a separate area which would cost less money then hiring a few people including security, it makes more financial & longterm sense then increasing the opening hours, given the lack of funds.

Fine, it doesn't matter where it is but we need more 24 hour study space... the reason I suggest the BLU complex is because it's the most obvious option.

I liked McGuirk's idea of opening up the PostGrad reading room after 9pm to undergrads.

Boston

Right_Side wrote:

Get over yourself for a start.

2 staff @ €20(?) an hour. Light and heat. Thats a pretty small variable cost if you ask me.

It's not 2 staff, its five staff @ 20euro for one hour + 3 staff at for 3 and a half for the hamilton alone. Persuming the other libraries have a similiar cost stuction, which they don't, and excluding light and heat. Thats at least a quater mill a year on the numbers I've calculated, ahve you even bothers workign out some basic numbers.

The whole idea is that just one library is opened for study only.

Thats not fair to have one open.

If only one was open this wouldn't be a problem on the same scale. Employ one more replacement person for a few hours when the service desk opens... problem solved.

Not fair to have only one libary open, libraries are paid for by all students.

As I said charge those who want to use it extra. I'd pay extra in my registration fee for a special card giving me longer access.

So you get a better education in a public university, because you can pay more. How is that problem solved. How woudl that not create a situation where some students are at a disadvantage.

The whole idea is that it's just for study. I would care if the law library was open and my books are in the Lecky.

I persume you ment wouldn't. Well you say that not, but why should the bess students have an advantage over other students, because their library was "choosen" to be the one open one?

Where is there "plenty" of decent 24 hour space?

Why would I help you now? You seemed to have got lost on your way to griffit college.

Right_Side

LiouVille, your not listening to my argument so take your hostility away with you.

Boston

Oh I heard your arguements. I'll summise, "My daddy would happily pay for me to go to the library", "But why can't they just spend a couple hundred thousand more on services, only a small portion of students would use" and "I don't like this 24 hour study area, open the ussher for me".

I've a feeling I've met you before, runing around the Pav shouting affluent at people.

Right_Side

LiouVille wrote:

Oh I heard your arguements. I'll summise, "My daddy would happily pay for me to go to the library", "But why can't they just spend a couple hundred thousand more on services, only a small portion of students would use" and "I don't like this 24 hour study area, open the ussher for me".

I've a feeling I've met you before, runing around the Pav shouting affluent at people.

I don't know what your problem is but it's bordering on personal abuse at the moment.

Nietzschean

Right_Side wrote:

I don't know what your problem is but it's bordering on personal abuse at the moment.

Eh not really.

Crash

Joe, calm. now.

Thirdfox

I'll put in my request for four way power sockets for the Berkeley again (shouldn't cost that much... I'll even buy one for them if they want!)

But whats up with the non-regulation size power outlets?

Right_Side

Nietzschean wrote:

Eh not really.

Whatever, tbh. :rolleyes:

Nietzschean

Right_Side wrote:

Whatever, tbh. :rolleyes:

Super.

Boston

Thirdfox wrote:

I'll put in my request for four way power sockets for the Berkeley again (shouldn't cost that much... I'll even buy one for them if they want!)

But whats up with the non-regulation size power outlets?

Why would four way power sockets be needed? Surely one is enough for most people? Also whats wrong with using your own if you do need them?

Neil, I am calm.

Thirdfox

Problem is, the one power socket is to power 8 desks + lights.

I know what you mean by one socket for each person but currently (under your definition) we have one socket powering the lights and no sockets for anyone...

Adding a four way socket would allow 3 laptop users on each 8 person desk... decent enough in my opinion. Hope I made the situation clearer now.

"Also whats wrong with using your own if you do need them?" - you can't - they have strange (circular) plugs that traditional plugs don't fit into.

xeduCat

(Disclaimer: I am a library employee but also a former member of college committees and therefore there is lots that I cannot say without breaching contract/confidentiality/etc. So I'm not trying to be evasive in the following comments, it's just trying to keep to the correct side of the line...)

Expansion of anything (apart from penpushing and perhaps Physics) in Trinity is virtually impossible at the moment. For the last few years, areas like the library have been asked to do more on increasingly less money and even staff. (Example: there was no deputy librarian for almost three years because the College refused to fund it, and there still is no head of systems because the money isn't there). It's only recently that the prospect of reducing opening hours has stopped being discussed - so while it's very easy from the perspective of a JF or SF student to rant and rave about how the hours should be extended, please try and realise that the world did not begin when you stepped through Front Arch! Even maintaining 10pm closing has been a major battle for some years. By the way, the library depends heavily on Book of Kells and Library Shop income to buy books and maintain existing hours - which is entirely unsustainable and pretty disgraceful for a university of this size.

Changes are of course A Good Thing. Do you really think, though, if it was a case of a few euro per session, that Dónal or myself or indeed the Librarian wouldn't have thought of this already? Get real. If it was that simple, it would have happened. In Trinityland, though, it never is. There are umpteen considerations in something seemigly straightforward. For example, while it's dead simple to type that the doors should open an hour earlier (which I agree with), there are so many knock on effects that it's not just about the hour, but the entire system and procedures that have to be thought of. Trinity's library is a huge operation - it involves multiple sites, thousands of books moving around every day, cleaners, technicians, casual staff, library assistants, programmers, security guards, cataloguers, librarians, managers, and God knows what else. It's also part of general Trinity things, such as HR policies, physical co-location with non-Library buildings, and so on.

Finally, the idea of having some sort of library premium, where you pay extra for the privilege of extended opening, is pretty arrogant - but self-styled right-siders are hardly likely to be subtle in their flaunting of wealth! Seriously, there are students in TCD for whom any extra expenditure is a source of stress and bother. I know this mightn't be significant to some - I mean, it's just like paying extra for BT cause you wouldn't be caught dead anywhere else - but it is to others. If you want to pay extra, find a college where that ethos dominates (you won't find it hard). It's a bit much appealing for the support of a students' union and then trying to have a wealth-dependent system. But oh yeah, the market will sort this out, right?

Thirdfox

What about extra power sockets in the Berkeley? My offer for part subsidising the cost remains on the table... (they might even name a power outlet after me! )

Boston

xeduCat wrote:

(Disclaimer: I am a library employee but also a former member of college committees and therefore there is lots that I cannot say without breaching contract/confidentiality/etc. So I'm not trying to be evasive in the following comments, it's just trying to keep to the correct side of the line...)

Expansion of anything (apart from penpushing and perhaps Physics) in Trinity is virtually impossible at the moment. For the last few years, areas like the library have been asked to do more on increasingly less money and even staff. (Example: there was no deputy librarian for almost three years because the College refused to fund it, and there still is no head of systems because the money isn't there). It's only recently that the prospect of reducing opening hours has stopped being discussed - so while it's very easy from the perspective of a JF or SF student to rant and rave about how the hours should be extended, please try and realise that the world did not begin when you stepped through Front Arch! Even maintaining 10pm closing has been a major battle for some years. By the way, the library depends heavily on Book of Kells and Library Shop income to buy books and maintain existing hours - which is entirely unsustainable and pretty disgraceful for a university of this size.

Changes are of course A Good Thing. Do you really think, though, if it was a case of a few euro per session, that Dónal or myself or indeed the Librarian wouldn't have thought of this already? Get real. If it was that simple, it would have happened. In Trinityland, though, it never is. There are umpteen considerations in something seemigly straightforward. For example, while it's dead simple to type that the doors should open an hour earlier (which I agree with), there are so many knock on effects that it's not just about the hour, but the entire system and procedures that have to be thought of. Trinity's library is a huge operation - it involves multiple sites, thousands of books moving around every day, cleaners, technicians, casual staff, library assistants, programmers, security guards, cataloguers, librarians, managers, and God knows what else. It's also part of general Trinity things, such as HR policies, physical co-location with non-Library buildings, and so on.

Finally, the idea of having some sort of library premium, where you pay extra for the privilege of extended opening, is pretty arrogant - but self-styled right-siders are hardly likely to be subtle in their flaunting of wealth! Seriously, there are students in TCD for whom any extra expenditure is a source of stress and bother. I know this mightn't be significant to some - I mean, it's just like paying extra for BT cause you wouldn't be caught dead anywhere else - but it is to others. If you want to pay extra, find a college where that ethos dominates (you won't find it hard). It's a bit much appealing for the support of a students' union and then trying to have a wealth-dependent system. But oh yeah, the market will sort this out, right?

Well said. Most students I know, for starts I am one, survive on less then 50 quid a week in college, any charge for services would soon be a serious problem.

The people complaining about the opening hours should spend some time elsewhere. I'm on Erasmus in Spain and the library here is crap compared to Trinity's (the univerisities are supposedly in the same league). It has no books we need for classes, literally about one dictionary per foreign language and one big room for about a hundred different degree courses. The opening times are the killer though, it closes at 8.30pm every day and doesn't open at all on weekends. I can only study in a library so this is a real pain in the ass. Trinity's library seems brilliant now, and I will really appreciate it when I return and will be able to stay until 10pm or go on the odd Sunday if I feel like it.

Boston

Abram Bald Smokehouse wrote:

The people complaining about the opening hours should spend some time elsewhere. I'm on Erasmus in Spain and the library here is crap compared to Trinity's (the univerisities are supposedly in the same league). It has no books we need for classes, literally about one dictionary per foreign language and one big room for about a hundred different degree courses. The opening times are the killer though, it closes at 8.30pm every day and doesn't open at all on weekends. I can only study in a library so this is a real pain in the ass. Trinity's library seems brilliant now, and I will really appreciate it when I return and will be able to stay until 10pm or go on the odd Sunday if I feel like it.

I'm not 100% but i don't think the libraries open on sundays anymore.

Thirdfox

Way to burst his/her bubble!