ROT Opinions?

JayRoc

Just in the door from ROT.
Well, then, what did everyone think?

I'd say myself:

Positive: The fights were of a really high standard, really entertaining stuff and a credit to the organisers.There were several people sitting near me who didn't seem to have ever even seen an MMA fight and they seemed to thoroughly enjoy the night.And we were all out of there by eleven which was great!Once the ball got rolling things were kept at a nice steady pace and the number of fights was just right.

Negative:Really only that the amount of people in such a small place made for a lot of problems, especially when a load of seventeen-year-olds got a bit of drink into them in the latter part of the evening and encircled the ring instead of sitting down, making it pretty much impossible for anyone to see anything, particularly the ground-work.Some of the lads there were just drunk and ignorant of the irritation they were causing, while some of them were just inconsiderate scumbags who seemed intent on causing a row.
But c'est la vie, I guess...


Thanks John for a great night all in all.
Who knows, Croke Park for ROT 2010, maybe?

Elytron

Elytron wrote:

owen roddy v tim muprhy proved to be the fight of the night and probably the best mma fight i've ever seen life.

Truth

dlofnep

Thanks for the results. I figured Roddy & tim would be a barn-burner. When's the DVD out of this charade?

TapouT

Elytron wrote:

Alan Hannon v Alan Seery

i was actually expecting Seery to KO him via experience and was rather shocked by the arm bar submission.

Karl Roche v Mark Brophy

Excellent match up, very entertaining. Karl was able to produce a lot of powerful head height shin kicks. i thought he exposed his jaw too much and maybe if Mark improves his striking skills he'll punish him for that. I was impressed by the jj skills the lads showed. Roche got a nice arm bar from kesa getame.

Neil Seery v Mickey Young was the first B Class fight and the first disappointment. Neil floored young early in the first round with a piercing right hand but got a bit carried away and soccer kicked his downed opponent resulting in disqualification. I think Seery is a bit too expericened to be making these kind of mistakes and threw away a very possible victory against a respected oppontent. In theory seery had the opportunity to take mount and g and p the dazed MY into submission but wasted it. very disappointing finish, i wish they would have just rematched it there and then.

Richie moore v mark o'toole provided the first controvesy with the judges decsion of the night. Richie was very agressive and went forward throwing looping hands but his lighter opponent was giving it back equally. i think richie got more take downs but i was suprised by he judges descion to give it to moore. however, i agree mark was a bit casual and didn't go forward enough while richie seemed to be chasing the fight in a positive way a lot.

willy hamil v luke hanlon was a 5 by 2 min round of k-1 (ultimate) kickboxing. it was an interesting match as i consider willy a boxer who fights k-1 rules. luke had a lot of skill but willy is a seasoned fighter. the match went to the scorecards in favour of willy but i think it was a draw.

owen roddy v tim muprhy proved to be the fight of the night and probably the best mma fight i've ever seen life. they showed loads of skill in the ground game and plenty of UMPH in the stand up. the lads traded blows and postition and it was a very tight match. murphy managed to cut roddy in the head but at some point in the 3rd round roddy unleased a mighty knee to the head of TM for a clear KO. it was a great fight that could have gone either way but i think roddy was helped by what seemed to be half of ballymun/poppintree at ringside despite ML's instructions.

Clive staunton v owen dempsey was the 2nd disappointment of the night. i'm a big fan of clive (probably too big) and was hoping for a stand up war for clive to come out on top of. but this match when to the ground quickly via staunton's take down but the jj "expert" got caught in a leg triangle he valiantly tried to escape. unfortunetly it was all over in the first round via submission and not to take anything away from owen dempsey, clive didn't seem himself.

arni isaksson v greg loughran was the final match of the night. i'm not all too familar with greg but i know he holds some kind of belt and beat francis from sbg so he must be class. arni on the other hand as we all know is a rising mma star and has oodles of guts and talent. the fight was very close, both fighters showing skill in all three ranges. i'm not sure what AI's intentions were. in the first round he controlled the game completely, his corner men JK, DR and AR not needing to say anything. however in the next and final round his opponet found his range and "voice" and started throwing the big punches back at the ice viking. arni on at least 3 occasions was on top and went to his feet and gestured for the smaller fighter to join him in a striking battle. i was hoping to see more class from the MT icelander than i did see standing. the fight went to the judges and them came back with a split decision in favour of AI which probably is fair due to his control of the 1st round. but all credit to the PCC man who took the 15 kilo (~) heavior oppent all the way and busted him up a bit.

i have to say the whole show was really enjoyable. i don't know if it was the booze or the smaller venue but this show seemed 10 times better then the last rings ireland next door. maybe it was because i was closer and could see the fights better or maybe itwas the atmosphere of the ringside club but this event just seemed to ooze entertainment. it was well worth the 25 squid.

it was nice to chat to a couple of the boards people, i made the mistake of saying hi and hello to tapout without introducing myself no wonder he didnt' reply!

Good review, just about sums up the fights.

Although I'd have to disagree with you on the Richie Moore fight. Although bleeding heavy the decision to stop the fight when he was clearly in a winning position to have his nose checked could have cost him the fight so although I think he took a bashing in the second round I feel justice was done with the decision. Either way a very entertaining fight. Although Richie will have to stop dropping his head and charging in like he was doing.

Neil Seery v Mickey Young. This looked like a cracker until the disqualification and I think the crowd was expecting a restart to the fight. But rules are rule.

Owen roddy v Tim Murphy. WOW :eek:

I couldn't add to your commentary any further.

One last comment. The Referring was again first class.

It great meeting some of the guys from the board here, but who was it wearing the Murphys stout T-shirt?. You introduced yourself (kinda) but never gave me a board name!.

TapouT

One final thought through this drunken/hungover very sick head this morning.

Although the MC made an announcement asking the crowd to keep away from ringside, I feel it wasn't his job alone to do this. We had a little rowdy element gather around the ringside, one lad actually had his beer on the canvas, a little row kicked off but it was members of the audience who calmed the situation very quickly.

Other than that R.O.T. I.V. was probably the best yet.

mark.leonard

Definitley the best ROT so far IMHO. The fighters all really left it in the ring.
Just a couple of things - Ultimate Kickboxing Match, I had Willy ahead 3 to 2 at least I thought he was the clear victor in that one, if he could have managed to slip the left straight he kept getting caught with he would have taken all the rounds.
Tim vs Owen, WOW! As I had hoped both fighter brought it in a very big way. Owen looked pretty busted up after it but didn't flag at all, the knew (to the body btw.) which finished the fight was beautifully taken and I hope I am never on the receiving end of a knee like that! That was actually the second one of those he landed he put Tim down in the first round with one of those too, but Tim was able to shake it off that time. The only downer of the night was the behaviour of Owen's fans during that match, it was extremely frustrating trying to coach Tim, when every time the fighters landed in front of me the crowd around the ring dived in to start banging the ring and generally being unsporting, I though we were going to have a row on the outside due to it after one of them was practically up on my back! Thanks to the level headed fighters outside the ring for keeping that situation under control, particularly Richie Moore on my side of the ring and Karl Roche on the other. The crowd was nobodies fault of course, though it might be worth thinking how better to deal with it next time.

The reffing was top notch as we have come to expect from the Sniper, I wouldn't be quite as enthusiastic about the quality of the judging, but that is something I will be taking offline and isn't worth debating here.

Arni Issakson is made of Iron there is no doubt about it, he kept going despite Greg putting lumps all over his face with ground and pound. Greg showed his experience and ring craft in that match for sure dishing out some serious punishment to a heavier fighter. Though Greg should have shaded that decision for what its worth.

So all in all a great card roll on the next one in August!

dlofnep

Shame about the rows.. I think for such a small event, maybe you might start being selective in who you let in to watch? Ban any troublemakers. Last thing I'd want at an event is a bunch of idiots ruining it.

JayRoc

Or maybe just put an age limit on the door?
No under 18's?

(BTW, fair play, Mark, I think I saw you almost get a pint all over your back, you've the patience of a saint!)

TapouT

Isn't it terrible, here we are discussing a tiny scumbag element in the crowd for the second time (Bushido rings being the first).

I mean, wtf are these guys coming from?. I don't recognoise them from any clubs I've trained in, do you guys?.

But lets not let them take away from a brilliant night.

One suggestion, if there's going to be anymore 'ultimate kickboxing' bouts, get two ultimate kickboxers!.

TapouT

JayRoc wrote:

Or maybe just put an age limit on the door?
No under 18's?

It wasn't kids under 18 causing the rukus!.

Maybe the clubs should take some responsiblity for the behaviour of their members or supporters and some vetting measures brought in to try to curb this element from getting tickets again.

I've brought my son to all the events, he's 14 and wouldn't appricate him being barred from further 'rings' because of what happened last night.

Btw, maybe we're making a bigger issue of this is nessessary as I don't think the audience on at least three sides of the ring would have seen a thing.

Valmont

TapouT wrote:

One suggestion, if there's going to be anymore 'ultimate kickboxing' bouts, get two ultimate kickboxers!.

I wasn't looking forward to the ultimate kickboxing bout but it turned out to be a great fight in my opinion and it was timed nicely to mix things up a little bit. I forget the guys names but the guy who won had great ducking and weaving and faking and all that. It was sweet.

It was great to see Owen submit a respected BJJ practitioner (and previously undefeated) after he got robbed up north in March. I roll with him occaisionally and his JJ is really good.

I knew the event would be good but not that Good! Tim Murphy vs. Owen Roddy, What a brilliant fight, Wow!

The DVD should be called Ring of Truth : Throwdowns

I think that sums it up nicely

vasch_ro

Firstly Tapout that was me in the "murphys" T shirt sorry i forgot to introduce my self.....the show was very good and being from the Next generation fan base it was great to see Eoin Dempsey get a great submission victory over Clive, who I never would have expected to get subbed but thats the fightgame,I'm sure most people were looking to see both these figters throw some leather big time and I'm sure Clive will come back a stronger fighter at the next event....maybe a grudge match with Colum O keefe ???:)

I would agree with the reviews of the fights , a lot of people commented around me that there was a "hometown" element to the judging and i feel i would have to agree.

Arni Issakson to mind benefitted from this and failed to live up to his prematch hype, I thought he was schooled by Greg Loughren who admittedly after a poor opening round dominated the the rest of the rounds, his work rate on and off the mat was good , plus his work from his back was probably the best and the most productive of the night, Issakson looked very tired and but in fairness tried to give the crowd what they wanted by insisting on standing the fight up, I thought loughren was very unlucky not to win, would have liked to hear the other judges scores, only one was announced. it was clear that Arni was by far and away the hometown favourite.

Moore vs O Toole a good match with moore showing surprising flexability with a few high kicks from the big man, he was obviously the home crowd favourite with a large following, again I would have liked to hear the judges scores for this match , and I think had it gone one more round O Tooles superior conditioning would have paid off and he would have stopped Moore, still a great effort by both fighters and Moores following certainly added to the cauldron like intensity.

Mad dog Tim Murphy and Owen Roddy was a great match the atmosphere was electric and fair play to Owen as I was sure that Tim had it in the bag, but that knee just totally changed everything in seconds, also fairplay to Roddy for fighting on despite some bad cuts.But fighters gave it all great stuff.

I would also agree with the "ultimate Kickboxing" sentiments, lets get some kickboxers please , and entertaining boxing match all the same. My two brothers were with me and they both enjoyed the match as they found it a good change from the MMA fights(neither of them train MMA or TMA) so there is obviously a niche for this segment.

the event itself, the crowd , crowding in on the ring was a major hassle and really really annoying for people at the back and people sitting down, Dragans friend from Global kickboxing gym had to skillfully talk down a few people out of the way, how Mark leonard managed to coach his fighter while that wally banged the ring mat constantly was beyond me, I could see Mark getting very frustrated and it really was very unfair, plus the fella did not give a monkeys ass, the funny thing was he actually had a seat down the back himself, another plonker knocked over the red corners bucket, and another chap when asked politely that if he was going to insist standing beside the ring could he at least crouch down replied "why don't you ****ing stand up !!!", there was also an awful lot of people getting close to the ring so they could video the action on their phones, to mind if the event wants to grow and become more professional stewards in high vis gear are a must, or the ring must be fenced off, even the great JK had to ask a chap to get off the ring apron. there was a pile off people in the club and while it really made for a great atmosphere it caused problems also, but as to an alternative venue that would sell out I'm not too sure. I did see the staff ask people for ID at the bar and refuse people who had none, so I guess the "adults" out there would have to take some blame for the drunken teens.

Lastly Dave "the sniper" jones did a great job as the ref which is a difficult role but he cretainly stepped up to the mark , also thanks to JK and SBg for organising a good show if I sound negative its only because i wish the event to be the best it can be.:)

FiannaGym.com

FIrstly congrats to JK for another amazing show. Well done all the fighters. Well done to Dave Jones for doing a great job and Mark for his MC "SKILLZ".

I thought the standard was one of the lowest in this ROT. Cardio also hit an all time low with only greg lochran (sp) showing he was really conditioned to go the distance.

Roddy Vs Murphy was an amazing fight. Seriously I thought it was animal. Put me down for a copy of the DVD, Roddy diving for the Omaplata was insane, I was watching it thinking "will he, wont he, he cant, can he? oh my god he did, it looks good, wow etc"

Young Vs Seery. I really wanted a restart to this match up so Young could BTSOO Seery. I can not stand that kind of thing, and Jones should have choked seery out for not responding to his orders. Basically ROT is a place for athletes, if your not an athlete you shouldn't be allowed in the ring.
Sorry to rant but that drove me mad!

Peace

P.S. Someone needs to have a talk with the D.J. ROT aint a 21st, a 50th or a dance off for girls with girl "power".

Peace

Ger Healy

First thing first.

The good points

Thanks to John and all his team for organising a great show. A hugh amount of respect to all the fighters for putting their bodies on the line and for some great fights.

I missed the first fight with Alan Hannon v Alan Seery as I was getting Mark prepared for his fight but I was delighted with the cannon's win.

I would agree with Elytron post if Mark can improve his striking then we could see a differed result if they meet again but well done to Karl.

Again I did not get a chance to see many of the other fight as I was helping Tim prepare

What can I say about Tim & Owen fight it was a WAR
It only came down to who could get that telling strike and as we all know it was Owen.
Fantastic fight, the fight of the night well done to Owen

I got to see the Arni Isaksson v Greg Loughran fight
I was in the changing room with Greag, that guy was so relaxed I though he was sleeping. But when he steps into the ring he brought his fighting game with him.
First round I give to Arni second round to Greg the third round could have when't to either fighter.
We are going to need a rematch of this one!!!

Good job by Dave Jones as the ref

Only on bad point

And most of the guys here have posted on it.
Maybe next time it might be an idea to corner of an area around the ring as to keep the crowed back so this does not happen again

Scramble

I had a really good night, and enjoyed the fights immensely.

When I initially arrived I thought 'bugger- wish I'd gotten here earlier' as there didn't appear to be any seats left. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise as we got a pretty good view from where we were standing (without blocking anyone's view, I hope). Yes, it was quite packed, but not to the point where it detracted from my enjoyment of the night. As things went on, the crowd appeared to thin out a bit as well.

A few thoughts on the fights themselves:-

-The soccer kick to the head incident surprised me, to say the least. I find it amazing that Seery was unaware that this was a gross breach of the rules, and I'm not sure I buy that it was just somethin that happened 'in the heat of the moment', either. The guys who were cornering him didn't seem to be very familliar with this rule either.

- Owen and Tim's fight was a serious war, and someone I was talking to accurately described it as "the fight of the year". It was great to watch such technical, skilled fighting in all three ranges, and they both had the conditioning to go the distance. I thought Owen was pretty dominant in the first round, but became worried when he was cut- thought there might be a stoppage. The victory via knee towards the end was a sweet finish. Looking forward to re-watching this one on DVD as I didn't have a great view of the last round.

- The Arni versus Greg fight was also quality. I think Arni was that bit more active, and seemed totally unflappable throughout.

Roper

I thought there were some very entertaining fights. TBH the crowd problems were an annoyance rather than any serious concern, and I would be wary of getting too into that as I think we could easily make a mountain out of a bit of an irritating molehill. Lads with beers resting on the canvas is just people with no idea of how to behave at a sporting event. Generally, that is the way I would describe the difficulties, unsporting behaviour by certain segments of he crowd. For the most part I thought Owen Roddy's cheerers made for an electric atmosphere, but you've always an idiot or two spoiling it such as the two lads leaning into the ring abusing Tim while he was being checked by the doctor.

But what a fight! What a finish. I had my money on Tim as you all know but I think Owen had the edge even in the stand up where I expected Tim to dominate, and his jits was on fire. It was always going to come down to who could get a solid shot away and in the end it was Owen. Fair play to him, I thought he was going to get stopped only minutes before. Tim's a warrior though and he'll be back. A rematch is on the cards I hope???

Yeah I thought there was one bad decision in the O'Toole/Moore fight, but I actually thought Arni did enough to win in the first two rounds. Greg Loughran gets my vote as fighter of the night though. Underweight and outgunned he took it to Arni in the third and it must have been a close call.

Great fights.

mark.leonard

I would like to echo some of what Roper said there, I think I started off a witch hunt for the over enthusiastic fans, which isn't warranted. I posted first this morning with the frustration of trying to coach under those conditions still fresh in my mind, with a bit more time to be objective I don't think there was any real bad intention, more having no sense of decorum, I mean do they really think its okay to bang the ring during a fight! So I hope I haven't skewed the impressions of anyone that wasn't there last night, it was a great show and I can't wait for the next one.

john kavanagh

debate....opinions....arguments...disputes....PASSION

BEAUTIFUL:D

Roper

Does anyone have the actual story behind the challenge match?

dlofnep

I'm sure John does.. and I'm sure it's old news now. John said something about it in an interview years ago on SFUK. You'll find it on there if you dig deep.

dlofnep

Anyways, I want a copy of this DVD.. Owen & Tim's fight sounds like it's well worth it from that.

Valmont

dlofnep wrote:

Anyways, I want a copy of this DVD.. Owen & Tim's fight sounds like it's well worth it from that.

It certainly is, it was better than some of the UFC's last year! Seriously!

j.griff

well done to karl roche and richie moore of sbg northside you guys trained
hard i'm sure andy ryan had a big smile on his face last night

TwoKingMick

Someone send me a DVD.

walshb

First time at one of these events and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. I really was not expecting much action, but it was as full on as could be expected. As regards speed and accuracy and skill and footwork and technique it had nothing, but for guts, courage, toughness and stamina it was very very good.

crokester

"As regards speed and accuracy and skill and footwork and technique it had nothing, but for guts, courage, toughness and stamina it was very very good" (Walsh

Probably the most ignorant statement Ive heard on these boards. If you dont understand groundwork, and the technique behind it, well then it may not look especially exciting for you. If, as i suspect, you went looking for flying tripple roundhouse sumersault kicks, id advise you rent a movie next time; you might save yourself the cash.

Dragan

To be honest Mark , i think you were spot on. I was sitting right beside Tapout for the whole event, and while we had a really sweet view of the ring, we also had a really good view of who was up to no good!!!

There was definitely one or two elements there who are known to cause a bit of grief, my coach was able to point out at least two guys who consistantly cause trouble at kickboxing events when they get a few beers in ( it should be noted that these guys are fighters themselves so should really know better ). In fact it was one of my friends who dealt with one particularly rowdy chap at ringside, making sure he returned to his seat and stayed there through his persiverance and patience and experience with dealing in the correct manner with someone who might have had a pint too many.

All in all, the event was fantastic, but to be honest, as someone who used to be involved in a lot of event security i couldn't believe there was no obvious presence. The table of plagues was keeping one side completely clear ( i will know to bag seats here next time!! ) and the para's and fight doctor at the other was cool, so surely two dedicated guys for the other sides operationg from the free corners could have kept the ringside clear???? I understand that when your watching your mates bang we all get a little into it, but still.

As i said, the event itself was great, the highlight for me being the Roddy/Murphy fight which was just unreal. I noticed that the homecrowd cheered for Roddy and booed Murphy when they came out, but by the end of that fight, both fighters were cheered equally which is always good to see!!! I know it must have been harsh for Tim to lose that fight, but if you had to lose any fight then that was the one!!!!!!!!

Also, cheers to Tapout for feeding me all the info he did about the fighters and the scene during the event, and generally keeping me up to scratch on stuff!!!!

walshb

Mate, just for the record. I was referring to their speed of punch, technique whilst throwing punches and kicks and their overall lack of footwork. Two flatfooted, no bounce and zero lateral movement. They were not close to being technically sound fighters. All credit to the rest of their performance, great lads. As for the wrestling on the ground, it was hardly Olympic level now was it. Very stamina sapping and physically demanding.

TwoKingMick

You mean it wasn't boxing? Good god! Boxing doesn't work in that type of fight, pure boxers not only get beat, the also tend to get hurt.

Dragan

walshb wrote:

Two flatfooted, no bounce and zero lateral movement. They were not close to being technically sound fighters. All credit to the rest of their performance, great lads. As for the wrestling on the ground, it was hardly Olympic level now was it. Very stamina sapping and physically demanding.

In all fairness dude, you are just kind of missing the point of MMA ever so slightly!!!!

And who would have thought that two guys who grew up and train in a country where there is very little Greco Roman or Freestyle wrestling, and no support from the goverment etc to the scale that other countries do might no be Olympic level!!!!

How dare they!!!!

I assume you meant they were not even close to being technically sound "boxers" lets not confuse boxing and fighting here shall we?

walshb

Guys it's not rocket science. I do get it, it's MMA, but even MMA has some level of coordination, footwork, speed of hand and foot and technically sound shots. Basically the lads seemed slow, flat footed and lacked footwork. These traits I would assume to be vitally important in any combat sport. They were street fighters with stamina and heart. That's all I saw and I commend them for their huge efforts, but skillwise It definitely lacked. I don't mean to sound too critical, but the only guy I saw who had style or looked really fast and composed was the guy who got DQ'd for kicking his opponent while he was on the ground.

As for the boxer aspect, any decent boxer would have KO'd those guys in seconds with slight lateral movement and a heavy accurate and fast combo.
Now if Ramon Dekker was in the ring, then that's a different story but the guys on Saturday night would have been far too ponderous and slow for a good boxer.

Dragan

walshb wrote:

As for the boxer aspect, any decent boxer would have KO'd those guys in seconds with slight lateral movement and a heavy accurate and fast combo.

Becuause of course Owen and Tim would both had stood and traded with a boxer!!!!

In all seriousness, how long do most boxers train before they reach the kind of skills level you are talking about? And even then, how many people train in boxing and never acheive decent footwork, head movement and lateral movement???

Maybe it never occured to you to stop for two seconds, and think, for two seconds that the two guys were well matched up, had pretty comparable skill sets and levels and that it was, just, a great fight.

Of course because someone steps in the ring they better be world class at everything!!!!!!

Ever stop to think the with the sort of heart the guys showed in the ring and with the right training what they can add to the skills they do already have, and where they can take it in the future????

But your right, their not good enough now, so lets just knock on them. :rolleyes:

Roper

I take walshb's point on the level of strkiing on display. It wasn't all that high on Saturday night, but lets not forget that it's not all about striking. (there was some good striking,Murphy, Roddy and O'Toole stick out but I could be forgetting someone) It's as much about clinch and ground as stand-up and where a fighter lacked stand up skills you found that he had one or both of these ranges to more than compensate.

walshb

Owen and Tim had loads of heart and stamina and courage. I am not denying that, but I do not think they possessed great skill and at least I'm being honest. To say they had real speed, accuracy and text book punching and kicks is not right. I was happy with the fights Sat night and just because I'm not comparing them to Ali, or Tyson Or Dekker does not mean I'm slagging them. Lay off mate. Maybe they would not trade with a decent boxer, but as far as their tactics and speed go, what other option would they have. They didn't have the footwork to be elusive, nor a good defense. How else would they scoe on a qualty boxer without getting close and shooting.

So don't make out on this thead that I'm slagging the lads, I'm not...they were fantastic for what skills they possessed, but I saw no real class, style, speed, footwork or general ringsmanship. They were hardy lads, plain and simple.

walshb

Owen and Tim had loads of heart and stamina and courage. I am not denying that, but I do not think they possessed great skill and at least I'm being honest. To say they had real speed, accuracy and text book punching and kicks is not right. I was happy with the fights Sat night and just because I'm not comparing them to Ali, or Tyson Or Dekker does not mean I'm slagging them. Lay off mate. Maybe they would not trade with a decent boxer, but as far as their tactics and speed go, what other option would they have. They didn't have the footwork to be elusive, nor a good defense. How else would they score on a quality boxer without getting close and shooting.

So don't make out on this thead that I'm slagging the lads, I'm not...they were fantastic for what skills they possessed, but I saw no real class, style, speed, footwork or general ringsmanship. They were hardy lads, plain and simple.

Vegeta

walshb wrote:

Owen and Tim had loads of heart and stamina and courage. I am not denying that, but I do not think they possessed great skill and at least I'm being honest. To say they had real speed, accuracy and text book punching and kicks is not right. I was happy with the fights Sat night and just because I'm not comparing them to Ali, or Tyson Or Dekker does not mean I'm slagging them. Lay off mate. Maybe they would not trade with a decent boxer, but as far as their tactics and speed go, what other option would they have. They didn't have the footwork to be elusive, nor a good defense. How else would they score on a quality boxer without getting close and shooting.

So don't make out on this thead that I'm slagging the lads, I'm not...they were fantastic for what skills they possessed, but I saw no real class, style, speed, footwork or general ringsmanship. They were hardy lads, plain and simple.

well they could low kick a boxer who wouldn't know how to block them, when his legs are nice and sore we'll see how the boxer moves then. Also what would a boxer do on the ground.

You cant compare them its like comparing soccer and gaelic football, kinda similar and have some fundamentals that are vital like running, kicking a ball, hand eye co-ordination but just because you play for the all Ireland champions in football doesn't mean you could also play soccer for Ireland.

crokester

Walsh b its pretty obvious you are completely new to MMA. Firstly, when striking in MMA you always have the added aspect of takedowns. Boxers can hop, skip, and dance all over the ring and not have to worry about being picked up and slammed. Striking in MMA is often conservative for this reason. Secondly, boxers have all the time in the world to concentrate on their punching. But like was said before, boxing aint fighting, a fight has all three ranges to deal with and so all ranges require attention. No pure boxer would have won any of those fights, plain and simple. Whats your fighting background by the way to be able to paint these guys as maulers with all heart no technique? Are you familiar even with BJJ?

walshb

Good point Crokester. I know that MMA isn't exactly boxing and yes you do have other attack modes to think of and defend against and they definitely do have to think of conserving energy. However, the basic art of throwing punches and kicks requires a little more speed and technique than what was on show. They did look amateurish, slow and lacking real power and zip. I keep saying it but footwork is close on the most important aspect in MMA. The final fighter Loughrane, everytime he threw a straight jab he scored, his opponent had no defense against it, but Loughrane employed this target too late, when he was knackered. That's all I'm saying on this...great great lads with tons of heart, stamina and as brave as they come.

mark.leonard

Guys, Walsh B has re-emerged to troll the Ring of Truth topic, stop giving him so much air time by trying to convince him of anything, he displayed last time out that he is incapable of altering his views one iota despite evidence or irrefutable logic to the contrary, he is entitled obviously to give his opinion and I am delighted a boxing stalwart like him would come along to MMA it speaks well for the sports appeal and growth, but I wouldn't waste breath trying to change his opinion.

MarkBrophy

It is also worth mentioning that we wernt wearing boxing gloves. Protecting yourself with little six ounce mits is a little different.

Vegeta

MarkBrophy wrote:

It is also worth mentioning that we wernt wearing boxing gloves. Protecting yourself with little six ounce mits is a little different.

Very good point, its a lot different when wearing a boxing glove that hides your whole face when guarding.

Also Tim has a third degree black belt in TKD I doubt his kicks were slow or lacked zip :rolleyes:

walshb

Mark, I think there is a difference between trolling and backing up your arguements as to why you think Saturday nights fights, though tough and exciting, lacked real speed, skill and style. To please you then I'll say they were all Ramon Dekker like with the footwork of Ali and power of Tyson, defense of Sweet Pea and wrestling prowess of Kurt Angle.

Mr Brophy, you are right...there is a huge difference as regards the mitts and 12oz gloves and that's why I have a lot of respect for the fighters to have the heart to get in there and take the shots they did.

walshb

Vegeta wrote:

Very good point, its a lot different when wearing a boxing glove that hides your whole face when guarding.

Also Tim has a third degree black belt in TKD I doubt his kicks were slow or lacked zip :rolleyes:

No disrespect to TKD, but it wouldn't exactly be close on the competitive or physical level of Muay Thai or Kickboxing or Boxing, not close.

Dragan

walshb wrote:

Mark, I think there is a difference between trolling and backing up your arguements as to why you think Saturday nights fights, though tough and exciting, lacked real speed, skill and style.

Yeah , but all your doing is comparing boxing skills to MMA hand based stand up, which is about 20% of the game really.

What works in a boxing match just won't work in an MMA match, as has already been pointed out by people.

Besides, you whole argument is pretty much flawed , especially with the "neither would survive against a decent boxer". Thats a fairly basic and unsuprising statement really, kind of along the lines of " a decent chess player would beat a poorer one" or " a decent football team would beat a poorer one". Who knew!!!!

Fortunately as was also previously pointed out, it's really not that simple, or surely the chap who had the best hand striking and movement would simply have won that fight???

Vegeta

walshb wrote:

No disrespect to TKD, but it wouldn't exactly be close on the competitive or physical level of Muay Thai or Kickboxing or Boxing, not close.

Never said they'd be more powerful,

my point still stands though that someone fighting in mma with a tkd (world titles) background would not have sloppy kicks

Tim_Murphy

lacked real speed, skill and style

First few seconds of the very first fight, Alan Seery threw a few punches, Alan The Cannon Hannon level changed, shot in, lifted his opponent and slammed him. Now call me biased but I’m pretty sure that took speed, skill and a certain style. Of course that would be lost on some. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the kind word guys, it was a tough fight, fair play to Owen he did real well and is a true sportsman. I’m a bit bummed about how it ended but I’ll no doubt be back.

Oh and I agree with Mark L, there is no point debating with some people. Anyone who is going to call us “street fighters with stamina and heart” is either a troll or completely ignorant (and disrespectful), either way, I would not bother with someone like that.

walshb

Look forget the whole boxer crap. I never mentioned that the guys were not great boxers. It's simple, the idea of MMA is to use your hands, feet, knees, and sometimes elbows where permitted to beat your opponent. Now in order to be very good at this you also need balance, rythym, footwork, power, speed, stamina, a good chin and tactics. Boxing has nothing to do with it. Oh and good grappling skills would be very useful as well. They were decent, but to me they were far from really skilled. They looked like amateurs in a street fight type scenario. Real tough hard lads, but I really can't imagine that they went thru yrs of training and perfecting to do what they did. It was far from specialist type action. Any person with a good level of say Muay Thai who has power and speed could see that, as could a decent boxer. I would say that the grappling apsect of Saturday night was probably the lads best discipline, because the punches were certainly not and the kicks were not much better.

Why is it that when a POSTER maybe disagrees or fails to see real skill, that he's nasty and out of touch??....

Congrats to all the fighters Saturday night, you put on a great show and I sincerely mean that. Apologies if me not thinking it was on the highest level offends.

walshb

And it's really that easy to just walk in and pick a boxer up, down him and beat him. Never mind that he may take your head off before you can grab him. Cop on mate, it's not that simple, nor is it that simple for the boxer to simply show up and KO a karate expert or wrestler or Muay Thai fighter. They all have their particular skills. The MMA fighters show a little of everything and so do street fighters.

Dragan

walshb wrote:

so do street fighters.

huh????

Roper

1- MMA in Ireland is growing
2- Ring of Truth was a public event

1- As MMA grows, it's going to attract not just people who want to train, but also people who want to watch. Like walshb.
2- Anyone who paid can go watch and have an opinion. walshb has expressed his regarding his view of the striking skills on display. Does that make it fact? No. Just an opinion.

Let me put it this way. I know Claude Makalele is an excellent footballer as I have a technical appreciation of soccer. But others may look at him and say he's sh1t because he doesn't score enough goals. Do I just rip into them because they don't share my deeper understanding of the game? Or do I accept that there are more than just dedicated fans out there who train and understand the game. There are also casual watchers (and punters I might add) who enjoy watching the sport without a technical appreciation of what is going on.

I think the streetfighter comment was ignorant of the months of training these guys put in for this event, that and they may never have fought on the street! In fact, a lot of what walshb said was insulting to someone who trains in MMA, but again, I refer to the fact that its a public event and that in turn will inspire public comment.

I look forward to the day when I climb into a taxi and the driver says to me, did you see that Pride event last night? I thought Wand's striking was sh1t.

walshb

Getting a bit silly now. I like boxing and I like Muay Thai, big deal. I like to think I can spot a skillfull fighter no matter what the art. I don't think you need to be an expert in MMA to know whether or not a fighter has the qualities that are needed to be considered a class act. Nor do you need to be an expert in Muay Thai or kickboxing to spot real talent. The guys the other night are amazing as regards stamina and heart and courage. But to say they are class fighters with real specialist skills to me is not right.