Black Belt Grading

whitelightrider

Hey all. I currently am 1st Kyu in Shotokan Karate and am hoping to grade for my black belt in the next few months.
Can anyone give me any tips for training or what should I be doing in training to get ready for the Shodan?

pma-ire

whitelightrider wrote:

Hey all. I currently am 1st Kyu in Shotokan Karate and am hoping to grade for my black belt in the next few months.
Can anyone give me any tips for training or what should I be doing in training to get ready for the Shodan?

Don't hope to grade!

Know you are grading! You should be already a black belt inside before you ever set foot on the grading floor! The grading itself should only be a formality.

Have everything nailed down inside and out. Eat, drink, sh!t and sleep Karate and you will roll through it!!

memphis

Best of luck OP!!!

Am currently a blue belt in TKD and really plan on going the whoile haul to BB..... and beyond, depending on what way life takes me!

Damo W

whitelightrider wrote:

Hey all. I currently am 1st Kyu in Shotokan Karate and am hoping to grade for my black belt in the next few months.
Can anyone give me any tips for training or what should I be doing in training to get ready for the Shodan?

Have you seen a grading for black belt... if not try to get a look at one, so that you know what to expect.

Do you have a syllabus, examine it, ensure that you can perform everything on it to the best of your ability. (knowing the sequences before you ask for specific technical assistance will speed up the process)

Can you decide on your kata or will one be picked for you?

Break the components down into bitesize pieces and work on them...

Do you have a regular coach? If so try to get regular private time with him/her.

Spend time yourself working on the directions your coach gives you.

whitelightrider

pma-ire wrote:

Don't hope to grade!

Know you are grading! You should be already a black belt inside before you ever set foot on the grading floor! The grading itself should only be a formality.

Have everything nailed down inside and out. Eat, drink, sh!t and sleep Karate and you will roll through it!!

Excellent point. Thank you. I do know the stuff, bar my thrust kick. It's just that doubt in the back of your mind!

whitelightrider

Damo W wrote:

Have you seen a grading for black belt... if not try to get a look at one, so that you know what to expect.

Do you have a syllabus, examine it, ensure that you can perform everything on it to the best of your ability. (knowing the sequences before you ask for specific technical assistance will speed up the process)

Can you decide on your kata or will one be picked for you?

Break the components down into bitesize pieces and work on them...

Do you have a regular coach? If so try to get regular private time with him/her.

Spend time yourself working on the directions your coach gives you.

I havent seen a black belt grading yet but Ill be going through it for my pre Dan anyway.

I have the syllabus pasted on the wall in front of me at work so I cant forget it!!!!

You can decide on one Kata and the instructor picks the other one. I have them nailed down.

My coaches are fantastic. The pressure is on me a little as I'll be their first black belt student since they opened the club!

Thanks for the advice by the way. It really helps. I'm going to start picking out a few things each session and focus on getting them right.

Carpenter

whitelightrider wrote:

Hey all. I currently am 1st Kyu in Shotokan Karate and am hoping to grade for my black belt in the next few months.
Can anyone give me any tips for training or what should I be doing in training to get ready for the Shodan?

Hi
My daughter is at 2th kyu and is 10 yrs old at what age can she go for black is it 13

walshb

Carpenter wrote:

Hi
My daughter is at 2th kyu and is 10 yrs old at what age can she go for black is it 13

Is this a Joke?

Clive

WalshB if you don't have anything to add, then why say anything? Attention? There's a difference between flaming a high ranking martial artist who's clearly a loon and someone who asked a simple question about his (or her) daughter FFS!

Carpenter, it depends on the association and her instructor really. Some places have junior black belts, others won't let anyone to black belt until they reach the required age for the adult belt.

Like most things in martial arts, there are no hard and fast rules, your best bet is to ask her instructor.

Carpenter

walshb wrote:

Is this a Joke?

No it,s no joke and about 10 gold medal,s 4 or 5 silver and the same bronze it was only a question sorry thank you Clive

Boru.

You've got all your bases covered. The only thing youare missing is the massuse. Seriously, after my first black belt grading I was so sore I couldn;t move for a week. Take a few days off to chill and relax.

One last thing, my sensei said to me afterwrads. "If you couldn't make the grade we wouldn't have asked you to try". If you've been offered the chance to grade, you already succeded, you've been grading since you stepped on the floor you very first time. The only thing you have to do is make sure the confidence they've placed in you is justified - I'm sure it is. Good luck.

pma-ire

whitelightrider wrote:

Excellent point. Thank you. I do know the stuff, bar my thrust kick. It's just that doubt in the back of your mind!

Well if this the main problem then find the guy you think does this the best in your club or assoication (if possible??) and ask them for pointers on how to improve yours!!

As mentioned by Damo W, get personal training with the coach and other BB's every week!

Just don't burn yourself out before you get to the day!! Try to hold your peak off until near the date!!

This is why taking a year of preping before the grading day is good for you!! I used it to see how I peaked as I trained for the prelims then trying to hold myself back through concentration on single aspects of training. Until I got to about 5 - 6 weeks before and went on a blitz of all the parts to my training, and taking two days off of rest and stretching and really soft training (if I had to go to club).

I actually felt that my 1st dan grading was too easy in the end!!

walshb

If martial arts of any description wants to be taken seriously and gain some credibility, then the Black belting of children should be outlawed. Absolute ridiculous, they're good talented kids, but in order for them to be really considered black belts, surely an age limit should be applied and a time frame.
I know in the club I used to attend for years there were three belts, White, Brown and Black with grades on each. Some guys could be on their brown belt for 6-7 yrs before being considered for a black. They had to earn it.

Carpenter

walshb wrote:

If martial arts of any description wants to be taken seriously and gain some credibility, then the Black belting of children should be outlawed. Absolute ridiculous, they're good talented kids, but in order for them to be really considered black belts, surely an age limit should be applied and a time frame.
I know in the club I used to attend for years there were three belts, White, Brown and Black with grades on each. Some guys could be on their brown belt for 6-7 yrs before being considered for a black. They had to earn it.

Sorry but have to say this


IS THIS A JOKE:D

Cake Fiend

walshb wrote:

they're good talented kids, but in order for them to be really considered black belts, surely an age limit should be applied and a time frame.

:rolleyes: Here we go again. If someone (regardless of age) has the skill required of a black belt, why should they not be given a black belt?

Of course, most kids aren't going to have the concentration, dedication and motor skills necessary, but why should those few who do be held back? Is it so the adult black belts won't feel embarassed when they see a child wearing the same belt as them? If a child can be given a green or brown belt, the same as an adult, why not black?

And time frame is another thing that doesn't necessarily make sense, for children or adults. People don't learn at the same rate. If person A learns twice as fast as person B, who was given a black belt after 6 years of training, why should person A not earn their black belt after 3 years, assuming they have the level of skill necessary?

My organization has a particular syllabus (as do most) for a 1st Dan grading. It's purely technical, as most gradings are - there is no height/sex/strength/age requirement. If someone can perform the techniques required with the level of skill required, they pass. There are no 'trick questions', no surprise techniques, it's a standardized exam. If there's something wrong with this system, please point it out to me.

dudara

I'm in two minds about this one, I agree with Sico as in that if you know the technique, have learned the syllabus and can perform, then you should be granted your BB or equivalent.

However, I have seen kids who have been graded to black belt, and just aren't able. They didn't know why they were performing techniques, and sometimes were just going through the motions. On the other hand, I've seen a few fantastic 12 year oldish BBs.

There are some clubs out there that treat kids as cash cows, puching them through gradings with a hefty grading fee attached to each one. I think serious instructors won't put a kid forward for BB until they're about 12 ish. That's when the required maturity begins to appear.

Cake Fiend

dudara wrote:

However, I have seen kids who have been graded to black belt, and just aren't able. They didn't know why they were performing techniques, and sometimes were just going through the motions.

This is the fault of the instructor for not enforcing skill level requirements. I've seen brutal adult black belts too, it's got nothing to do with the age of the practitioner.

Damo W

Hi Guys,

Not everyone participates in MA to become efficient in SD or enter the ring; some just do it as a hobby or perish the thought, just for fun.

I say more credit to the juniors;)

walshb, when you say 'credibility' what do you mean?

Damien
(Grading soon for black belt in FUN!):D

memphis

Sico wrote:

:rolleyes: Here we go again. If someone (regardless of age) has the skill required of a black belt, why should they not be given a black belt?

My sentiment exactly. If they show the same skills and techniques, commitment, and dedication to the art as anyone else, male or female, regardless of age, then why not give them a black belt.

Millionaire

I became Black Belt when 15.

It was in Mu Gen Do Kickboxing.

No kata, or Bunkai, as we were kickboxing.

My BB test was exact same as Adults, and was 3 hours of
punching and kicking. just the basics, but different combos
over and over, and with partner too. sparring. and finishing with
lots of push ups and sit ups until death. you were so scared to stop
in case you failed.

It took 3 years to work up to that. and I think as a teen it
was my 1st major achievement in life. (i hated football sports etc).

So yes, I am all for kids getting belts.

I remember in our club, there was these 2 brothers, big fat akward sort of
lads. they were training longer than me and got BB a year after.
They could do the techniques, (in their own way) and took plenty
of thumpings in sparring. So they got their black belts because
the as the instructor said "served their time".. and why not?
they put in the effort, and time, and just because they could not kick as fast
or as high as some of us, why should it be held against them.

I train for fun these days, even though SD is a focus for me (though a bit less than it was last year), it just enjoy training for fun and cause I love it..its as simple as that.

Whizzo

whitelightrider wrote:

Excellent point. Thank you. I do know the stuff, bar my thrust kick. It's just that doubt in the back of your mind!

I think this is exactly the stuff that makes a BB. The whole process of the learning, relearning, practice, questioning yourself as you prepare for the grading always leads to one thing - do I really know this? Its that question you ask yourself when you become a BB that gives , what most BB's have, is some humility and modesty. I think is a very important attribute of any martial artist , whatever their style - or age.

dudara

The closer I get to BB, the more effort I'm putting into refining my technique. Its no longer sufficient to throw a kick, it has to be perfect. And often, I find myself tearing everything apart and going right back to the start. But it's worth it when you nail a technique

memphis

Apparently, if a kid in our TKD club gets his BB he is only a junior BB (and only fair that he is allowed to get a Black Belt if he is good enough for it) but once he reaches the age of 18 he has to do a senior Black Belt testing.

Banphrionsa

memphis wrote:

Apparently, if a kid in our TKD club gets his BB he is only a junior BB (and only fair that he is allowed to get a Black Belt if he is good enough for it) but once he reaches the age of 18 he has to do a senior Black Belt testing.

Not sure why you wait until 18. Can a BB be eligible for competing in the Bejing Olympics at 16 (if qualified)?

ColinJennings

When I went for my black belt I was training 4 times a week with other black belts. I made sure I was training with people who were much better than me so I could see what they were doing diffferently to me. You can easily notice your mistakes, especially if you train in a school where you are the senior grade.

So train with as many black belts as you can. Watch them, spar them, listen to them and learn from them. They have been there before and are generally more than happy to give advice.

memphis

Banphrionsa wrote:

Not sure why you wait until 18. Can a BB be eligible for competing in the Bejing Olympics at 16 (if qualified)?

Maybe it is 16 rather than 18, I'm not sure, I could have it all wrong seeing that it was another member who told me this.

They are allowed to grade for their BB when under that age, but are only considered Junior Black Belts, in order to become a senior BB then have to grade agaon when 18 or over (perhaps its 16) to be a senior BB.

As for the Olympics, that would be WTF, would it not?? We are ITF.

Cake Fiend

memphis wrote:

Apparently, if a kid in our TKD club gets his BB he is only a junior BB (and only fair that he is allowed to get a Black Belt if he is good enough for it) but once he reaches the age of 18 he has to do a senior Black Belt testing.

What's the difference between the junior exam and the senior exam?

I've never really understood the whole 'junior' black belt thing, I've always thought of it as pandering to the vanity of adult black belts. In my organization there's no such thing as a junior black belt, as the black belt exam is the same for children as it is for adults.

Roper

I thik ultimately Sico, varying arts have varying standards as to what qualities they belive a black belt should have. If it's technical knowledge and ability to recreate Kata or forms, gymnastic ability to do jumping spinning kicks or to kick pads, then yes, a kid's as good as an adult in this case.

However if the arts intention is that the black belt can peform (fight or spar) against another black belt of similar size and weight, then that kid would have to be able to do that. A step up into the seniors is a big jump and the grade might not necessarily reflect the actual ability of the kid. If it does, then fair game. If it doesn't, then the black belt becomes misrepresentative.

walshb

Surely the real test for any person in martial arts is whether or not they can make it from boy to man. That's the real achievement. There have been loads of terrific kids in Karate clubs who never progressed or matured to being terrific as seniors or adults. That's just the way it goes sometimes, and also some kids who were not great, reall grew and developed when they hit 17. Now giving 12 and 13 yr olds black belts because it makes them look good or because they can perform katas and do some fancy moves is ludicrous. Until they make hat transition, they should remain as just talented kids. So a child of say 14 gets a black belt and a year later he/she quits?, what does this mean, that when he's in his 20's he's still a black belt?.

The pinnacle of Karate and other similar martial arts is the Black belt, keep it as something really sacred and earned, for those who really progress and show the skills as they mature. Throwing the belts around like confetti so kids are happy and look great is pure silly and diminishes the whole idea of the art.

Cake Fiend

walshb wrote:

So a child of say 14 gets a black belt and a year later he/she quits?, what does this mean, that when he's in his 20's he's still a black belt?

Let's reword this a bit: So an adult of say 20 gets a black belt and a year later he/she quits?, what does this mean, that when he's in his 30's he's still a black belt?

What's the difference here? Why are you giving children in particular stick about this, when ALL THE TIME, adult black belts come back to training after several years, still wearing their black belts (and often visably not up to the standard of the other black belts)?

walshb wrote:

The pinnacle of Karate and other similar martial arts is the Black belt, keep it as something really sacred and earned, for those who really progress and show the skills as they mature. Throwing the belts around like confetti so kids are happy and look great is pure silly and diminishes the whole idea of the art.

You still can't seem to grasp the concept that a child could be capable of earning a black belt. How is a child who gets an undeserved black belt, them being 'thrown around like confetti', any worse than an undeserving adult? I see crappy adult black belts all the time, children don't have the monopoly on undeserved black belts. Why are you so adamant that a young black belt can't possibly have earned his grade?

Also, I don't agree that the black belt is the 'pinnacle' of karate. If anything, it's the real beginning.

And can someone please answer me why it's perfectly acceptable for a child to have a brown belt (and grade all the way up to 1st kyu), just the same as an adult, but not a black belt?

Damo W

Hi Guys,

walshb, I got my B/Belt when I was in my 20's now in my 30's when I'm in my 60's I hope to still be training (touch wood;) ), but I know that in my 60's I won't be as strong, flexiable, fit etc. won't recover as quick etc. as I did in my 20's..... should I give back the belt???? should someone [the MA police ] remove it??? will I tear up my certs???

Damien

walshb

Damo W wrote:

Hi Guys,

walshb, I got my B/Belt when I was in my 20's now in my 30's when I'm in my 60's I hope to still be training (touch wood;) ), but I know that in my 60's I won't be as strong, flexiable, fit etc. won't recover as quick etc. as I did in my 20's..... should I give back the belt???? should someone [the MA police ] remove it??? will I tear up my certs???



Damien

Eh yes you should, unless now there's a veterans black belt. Like in all sports, age plays a major factor. The elderley cannot compete with their younger counterparts. But I suppose in Karate, once you earn the belt, it's yours....fair enough, but earn it and prove it. Children as young as 12 and 13 having black belts means nothing to me.

king_of_inismac

Eh yes you should, unless now there's a veterans black belt. Like in all sports, age plays a major factor. The elderley cannot compete with their younger counterparts. But I suppose in Karate, once you earn the belt, it's yours....fair enough, but earn it and prove it. Children as young as 12 and 13 having black belts means nothing to me.

Having trained in karate for most of my life, as a student and as intructor you begin to realise that belts in themselves are meaningless. Colored belts to signify grades are a (historically) relatively recent phenomena. They, like competitions, encourage students to progress and to improve. For kids especially, it's a great way to motivate them, and there's nothing wrong with that.

As for using belts as an indication of skill/profecency(sp?), in karate at least, the two things don't always correlate.If you haven't trained in years, you have earn't your belt, and you can wear it, but if your skill level isnt there, then it doesnt mean anything.

My advice is, think of your belt as just something to hold your pants up. Don't worry about color/grades. Train hard, and live by the motto "You're only as good as your last training session"

Martin

walshb

I agree Martin, train hard and prove yourself over time. But I still think that if the color of the belt signifies the level of the person, then award the belt only when necessary, not as a mitivational tool or because it keeps them interested

Roper

Certainly in Karate styles (certain ones) and Taekwondo, belts are not indicative of performance level. However, I would look at Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo and say that they are as these guys have to perform against another person of that grade or similar to get their belt. Judo is a little different as the judo community is much larger and hence standards vary a bit more than BJJ. That said, no matter where you are, you can be fairly sure that a judo black belt can perform to black belt level against you. I wouldn't be so sure with a Kratty or TKD black belt. Standards vary so much.

Roper

Just to chime in, belts to kids are awarded in my place for effort and performance and as a motivational tool, with a black belt being a junior black belt until they're 17.

pma-ire

walshb wrote:

Eh yes you should, unless now there's a veterans black belt. Like in all sports, age plays a major factor. The elderley cannot compete with their younger counterparts. But I suppose in Karate, once you earn the belt, it's yours....fair enough, but earn it and prove it. Children as young as 12 and 13 having black belts means nothing to me.

Your view on martial arts seems very limited to personal performance and ablity!

This is fine when you are physically able. But when you loose the ability due to age, injuries etc what then??

In martial arts we have two main groups, the student and the instructor/coach. Both are on different stages of developent with there training. But can be hit with the same problems that life throw at them.

Lets look at the same affliction on each person?? Lets say one instructor and one student were involved in a car crash which left the student bound to a wheelchair and the instructor paralised from the neck down!!

The student wants to keep training in the martial art to reach black belt. So keeps attending classes even though they have no use of their legs adapting the martial arts to suit their needs and ability. The instructor, due to a love of his martial art keeps attending the classes teaching from the side instead of the top of the class or hands on due to his condition.

Later the student reaches the rank of black belt and goes to open up their own martial art club, and the instructor is even awarded a further dan grade for his show of determination and love of coaching the martial arts.

Now you might think this is BS and totally made up?? But in the case of the instructor this did happen to my own instructors' Judo instructor who was left paralised and continued to coach his club. I am quite sure that the student case has happened before as I know a guy from Shotokan that teaches wheelchair karate to very willing and able students.

On the flipside I also remember a fantastic 5th Dan who was in the assoication I trained with. Who gave it all up because he had to have an operation on his back which left him less mobile and restricted his kicking range. He was still one of the best techincal martial artists I had seen, and would have had so much to offer to others. But could not see that and gave it all up.

Martial Arts black belts should be awarded to people for the skills they have shown by overcoming any particular disability (and I use that term a little loose here). This means that a 10year old that shows the skills needed for black belt then should be given a black belt. They are still a child, the black belt will not make them any older over night. But if they then do not show the skills needed for the next rank then they should not be given the chance to grade for it until they do.

This is why I do not really believe in the set time between grades. As this creates an exectancy to eventually getting a grade that does not match the ability. This is the problem that should be targeted and not the individual groups of persons.

I was told once by my TKD instructor that if we (as martial artists) stuck to just one aspect of our training, when that aspect became something we could no longer do we would get fed-up and leave. So to have happy healthy martial arts life love all aspects. Be it sport, fitness, self defence, disapline, learning or coaching/instructing.

grosser

well said!

Banphrionsa

memphis wrote:

Maybe it is 16 rather than 18, I'm not sure, I could have it all wrong seeing that it was another member who told me this.

They are allowed to grade for their BB when under that age, but are only considered Junior Black Belts, in order to become a senior BB then have to grade agaon when 18 or over (perhaps its 16) to be a senior BB.

As for the Olympics, that would be WTF, would it not?? We are ITF.

Yes, I believe you are correct in assuming that WTF rules have been adopted by the Olympic committee, and I am almost sure that age 16 is the threshold for BB competition entry at Bejing.

Carpenter

walshb wrote:

Eh yes you should, unless now there's a veterans black belt. Like in all sports, age plays a major factor. The elderley cannot compete with their younger counterparts. But I suppose in Karate, once you earn the belt, it's yours....fair enough, but earn it and prove it. Children as young as 12 and 13 having black belts means nothing to me.

I have listened to you talk about 13yr old,s getting bb and dont mind me saying who the hell cares what you think i am proud off my little daughter and the way she is going about getting her bb what were you doing at 10 ? she started at the age of 5 what do you think (not that it matters to me) belt should she be now 5hrs per week for 5 years is a long time

dlofnep

I'm with walshb on this one. I don't think you should be able to get a black belt in anything at 13. If you do, I wouldn't think much of the art.

Look Carpenter, I'm sure your kid makes you proud and puts alot of time into what they do, but don't make a black belt be a novelty.. Don't rush it, I don't think anyone should be able to get a black belt until they are 18.

It also depends on what you consider the black belt to be. In japan all it indicates is that the person knows the basics and is fluent with them.. In Europe it means the person has pretty much nearly learned everything about the art and can string it together in real time.

For me, I consider a black belt to be the peak.. Where the learning curve drastically slows, and while you obviously are always refining your technique, your base is set when you reach your black belt and you've already made the foundation and added your own character to your technique..

A 13 year old kid black belt will drasically improve between the age of 13 to 18.. Compare that to the learning curve of a 25 year old. That's why I think they do not require a black belt.

Cake Fiend

walshb wrote:

But I still think that if the color of the belt signifies the level of the person, then award the belt only when necessary, not as a mitivational tool or because it keeps them interested

And what about children being awarded black belts if they deserve them?

Carpenter

Sico wrote:

And what about children being awarded black belts if they deserve them?

Fair play Sico that,s what i mean i am almost sorry i started this of now

dlofnep

Sico wrote:

And what about children being awarded black belts if they deserve them?

And what do you think warrants them deserving one? Putting the effort in or putting the effort in and being physical and mentally able to put them to use?

Look, a kid at 12 or 13 years old will improve 10 times over by the time they reach 18. A black belt isn't a smiley face on your copybook for doing your homework good. It symbolise your technical ability, not your technical knowledge.

Cake Fiend

dlofnep wrote:

And what do you think warrants them deserving one?

Passing the exam (in other words, displaying the skills necessary for a black belt as deemed by the examiner).

dlofnep wrote:

Putting the effort in or putting the effort in and being physical and mentally able to put them to use?

'Put them to use' how? Beating up other kids?

dlofnep wrote:

Look, a kid at 12 or 13 years old will improve 10 times over by the time they reach 18.

Which is why there is more than one Dan grade. An adult at 22 or 23 can also improve 10 times over in the same relative life percentage.

I still don't see why children should be treated differently to adults, if they have the same skill level.
I see my question of why a child can have a brown belt but not a black one is still unanswered, anyone want to tackle that one?

dlofnep

Sico wrote:

Passing the exam (in other words, displaying the skills necessary for a black belt as deemed by the examiner).

'Put them to use' how? Beating up other kids?

Who said anything about beating up other kids? Certainly not me. I was thinking more in the lines of sparring.

Onto "exam".. What is an exam? If we're talking about an exam where you break wood and do a 89 step pattern or kata, then all that proves is a good memory.

It depends on the art. If it's a resistence based art that cuts out the BS and they can hang with their peers, well fair play, give them the belt. But you won't find any who can. Why? At that age their body isn't developed enough to be really effective at what they do.

Sico wrote:

I see my question of why a child can have a brown belt but not a black one is still unanswered, anyone want to tackle that one?

I don't know any 12 year old brown belts in brazilian jiu-jitsu, I can only speak for my own art. Don't know about any others as I'm sure the meaning of brown belt will change from art to art.

Cake Fiend

dlofnep wrote:

It depends on the art. If it's a resistence based art that cuts out the BS and they can hang with their peers, well fair play, give them the belt. But you won't find any who can. Why? At that age their body isn't developed enough to be really effective at what they do.

Fair enough, some arts have tougher exams than others and some would be much tougher for children. In terms of karate (seeing as it's a karate thread), most karate organizations base their exams purely on technical ability. What I'm saying is if the child can perform the techniques to the required level, I don't see why they shouldn't be given the grade. The kids' dan-grade exams are almost always identical to the adults'.

Also, I'd like to address this, which I missed in my last post:

dlofnep wrote:

but don't make a black belt be a novelty..

I 100% agree that a black belt shouldn't be a novelty, nor should it be a carrot to dangle to get people to train more, pay more, keep training, whatever. It should be earned according to the exam syllabus (which obviously will vary from art to art, style to style). But what pisses me off is the begrudgery that some adult martial artists have toward children with real skill and talent walking around with a black belt. I know a 13-year-old black belt with sharper technique and more dedication than many (if not most) adult black belts I've seen; many of these people would have him sport a 'Junior' belt purely to save their own ego. This boy's instructor is a highly skilled, respected and ranked karateka with several incredibly talented teenage students and I can assure you he doesn't give black belts unless they're earned. A few of his young students will probably take their 3rd dan exams around their 18th birthdays and will have better karate than the majority of 3rd dans out there. I'd say this would make people like walshb piss his pants in anger :rolleyes: (or is it envy?)

grosser

dlofnep wrote:

I'm with walshb on this one. I don't think you should be able to get a black belt in anything at 13. If you do, I wouldn't think much of the art. ]
why wouldnt you think much of the art?black belt is only the start of training in martial arts!thus the different levels of dan grades.in itf taekwon-do a person must be of certain ages to attain certain dan levels.

[Look Carpenter, I'm sure your kid makes you proud and puts alot of time into what they do, but don't make a black belt be a novelty.. Don't rush it, I don't think anyone should be able to get a black belt until they are 18. ]

how is it a novelty if the child puts in the work and effort,in this day and age of computer games etc,its great to see any child put in the effort and committment to atain a black belt.why 18,do you think thats going to make them any better than if they,re 15 or 16?yes they may be better physically and be more developed,but a child putting in the effort will have the training influence their physical developeent as well as mentally.if you think that a child should not be allowed to attain black belt you may as well not let them train.

[It also depends on what you consider the black belt to be. In japan all it indicates is that the person knows the basics and is fluent with them.. In Europe it means the person has pretty much nearly learned everything about the art and can string it together in real time. ]

theres martial arts in more countries than japan.

[For me, I consider a black belt to be the peak.. Where the learning curve drastically slows, and while you obviously are always refining your technique, your base is set when you reach your black belt and you've already made the foundation and added your own character to your technique.. ]

the belt system in martial arts is like a carpenter buying tools(colour belts) when one gets to black belt thats when the real learning begins.

A 13 year old kid black belt will drasically improve between the age of 13 to 18.. Compare that to the learning curve of a 25 year old. That's why I think they do not require a black belt.

the black belt is the novelty that will keep a kid training in martial arts,remember kids get bored really easy if they dont see something going somewhere!

dlofnep

grosser wrote:

the black belt is the novelty that will keep a kid training in martial arts,remember kids get bored really easy if they dont see something going somewhere!

So we should give them black belt because they might get bored?

Ilias Iliadis won gold medal in judo at the last olympics at the age of 17. Did he not deserve his black belt? That may be an extreme case but there have been cases in this country where 16 year olds were among the competitive elite at their weight in judo.

king_of_inismac

This thread has really taken off.

Firstly, having trained in martial arts for years, as a student and as an instructor I think respect is very important.

However, equally if not more important is humility.

Belts just hold your trousers up. I could give every member of my club a black belt tomorrow. Would that make them better students? Would make them better fighers? I doubt it

Someone mentioned that the following:

For me, I consider a black belt to be the peak.. Where the learning curve drastically slows, and while you obviously are always refining your technique, your base is set when you reach your black belt and you've already made the foundation and added your own character to your technique..

I wouldn't like to think as black belt as being the peak. Its just the start of a lifelong journey of learning. In an ideal situation every blackbelt would have the same standard, reaching the same skill level.

This is never going to happen. When I go to a grading or competition and I see weak blackbelts, it make no difference to me. I feel people should care only about their own art. They should try to improve themselves, and ignore the people that are deluding themselves. So my advice si to forget about belts, forget about colours, just concentrate on the training, and everything else will take care of itself