Speed Trap radars

Sizzler

Anybody use these...and are they reliable?

Not illegal to have one but illegal to use one?! Bit of a contradiction there if thats true

I seem to remember a stand at "toys 4 big boys" a few yrs ago and and they were selling like hot cakes, and that was even before Penalty Points!!!

Stephen

A lot of speed traps now use laser instead of radar, and are much harder to detect, making these things pretty useless.

crosstownk

I've used a couple of these things years ago (other peoples) and found them useless - maybe it was the brand I used but I wouldn't be convinced. The best way to avoid penalty points is not to speed - simple.

jabaroon

Stephen wrote:

A lot of speed traps now use laser instead of radar, and are much harder to detect, making these things pretty useless.

This is what you need!
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/main.htm
highly illegal, naturally!

drdre

jabaroon wrote:

This is what you need!
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/main.htm
highly illegal, naturally!

yes this is exactly what you need
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/laserjammers.html

i heard that this jams the laser speed guns:D .but they are illegal

drdre

just buy this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHOTOBLOCKER-Photo-Blocker-Spray-Radar-Camera-NEW_W0QQitemZ5858227258QQcategoryZ14935QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Guy:Incognito

I find this model most effective http://www.stewartsteel.us/images/website%20photos/brake%20pedal.jpg

drdre

Stekelly wrote:

I find this model most effective http://www.stewartsteel.us/images/website%20photos/brake%20pedal.jpg

where can i get one of these:p

Sizzler

drdre wrote:

just buy this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHOTOBLOCKER-Photo-Blocker-Spray-Radar-Camera-NEW_W0QQitemZ5858227258QQcategoryZ14935QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thats a good one for gatsos, not so good though if you get flagged to stop by a jockey thats parked behind a bush that has seen you coming froma mile away

Sizzler

crosstownk wrote:

I've used a couple of these things years ago (other peoples) and found them useless - maybe it was the brand I used but I wouldn't be convinced. The best way to avoid penalty points is not to speed - simple.

LOL. Why didnt I think of that

Dont fancy getting done for driving at 62kmh in a 60 zone...it stinks.Im not an irresponsible driver, just pisses me off to see the cops take easy targets, plenty of people have posted about Kilmacanogue as an example, what a joke.

Sizzler

jabaroon wrote:

This is what you need!
http://www.scorpionjammers.com/main.htm
highly illegal, naturally!

That looks TOTR...anybody know someone who knows someone that has one? Ahem...;)

Zascar

Can't they tell if you are using a 'Jammer'? If you are speeding and they point the gun at you but don't get a reading, aren't they more likely to come after you to check - then your screwed when you get busted. I'd perfer just to be able to detect that there is one nearby - a bit of advance warning. in care you are doing 65 in a 60 zone.

Turner

Gardai dont use radar guns anymore.

These laser jammers make the speed gun give out an audible warning that the laser has been jammed..

Not hard for the Garda to know which car has the jammer as he was just pointing the gun at it.

Followed by....

Pulled over, search of car, summons, court, fine, application to judge to have device destroyed.

Happens every day.

Zascar

Exactly. I certainly would not want that to happen.

drdre

Zascar wrote:

Can't they tell if you are using a 'Jammer'? If you are speeding and they point the gun at you but don't get a reading, aren't they more likely to come after you to check - then your screwed when you get busted. I'd perfer just to be able to detect that there is one nearby - a bit of advance warning. in care you are doing 65 in a 60 zone.

nah the good ones like the jammer look like electronic gate openers also they can be hidden under the bonnet.so it can be hard to find them.otherwise they wonot know if you haveanything or not as they wonot check everything under the bonnet

jabaroon

drdre wrote:

nah the good ones like the jammer look like electronic gate openers also they can be hidden under the bonnet.so it can be hard to find them.otherwise they wonot know if you haveanything or not as they wonot check everything under the bonnet

Basically, to be 100% safe, you need to demonstrate why you have an electric gate opener in your car! Technically, if they search the car and find an "electric gate opener" (as they are often sold as this!), you need to justify your need for one!

drdre

jabaroon wrote:

Basically, to be 100% safe, you need to demonstrate why you have an electric gate opener in your car! Technically, if they search the car and find an "electric gate opener" (as they are often sold as this!), you need to justify your need for one!

yeah so if you have you have a electric gate at home you will be fine.or if you hide it right under the engine you will be fine as they wonot put the car on the rampto check it out.

Savman

I can understand the point aboout laser jammers, however I believe laser detectors are on sale in the UK. They don't interfere with the laser reading, just give you an audible signal and about 3 seconds to slow down.

Drove my cousin's car in Manchester and he had one of 'em, seems they're a bit of a legal cock-up in Ireland (typical:rolleyes:).

Legal to buy, legal to own, illegal to use!

Could you imagine if they had a law like that for cannabis?!

"Yes officer it's my weed but i've no intention of smoking it.."

dermot_sheehan

Savman wrote:

I can understand the point aboout laser jammers, however I believe laser detectors are on sale in the UK. They don't interfere with the laser reading, just give you an audible signal and about 3 seconds to slow down.

Drove my cousin's car in Manchester and he had one of 'em, seems they're a bit of a legal cock-up in Ireland (typical:rolleyes:).

Legal to buy, legal to own, illegal to use!

Could you imagine if they had a law like that for cannabis?!

"Yes officer it's my weed but i've no intention of smoking it.."

Actually radar and laser detectors are illegal to posess, fit, sell or import.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI50Y1991.html

Savman

I, er, stand corrected Ted. It would seem I've been grossly misinformed. Happens!

cargrouch

I'm very dubious about the Laser detectors giving advance notice. I would have thought the laser beam was so focussed that you wouldn't know til it had already been aimed at the car. Radar detectors would be much easier, but I would have thought reflections from a laser gun would be a lot harder to pick up reliably enough to always give a warning.

Anan1

cargrouch wrote:

I'm very dubious about the Laser detectors giving advance notice. I would have thought the laser beam was so focussed that you wouldn't know til it had already been aimed at the car. Radar detectors would be much easier, but I would have thought reflections from a laser gun would be a lot harder to pick up reliably enough to always give a warning.

You're right. Laser detectors essentially tell you when you've just been caught.

MrPudding

Anan1 wrote:

You're right. Laser detectors essentially tell you when you've just been caught.

Not strictly true apparently. The laser used are not highly focused high quality lasers so there does tend to be spill. The detector work by detecting this spill when the beam is focused on another car.

With regards to the jammer. The purpose of it is not to jam the laser until you have passed. That would be stupid and obvious to the Gardai. It only jams the laser for 1 or 2 seconds. At the same time you are giving a warning. When you get the warning you are supposed to slow down briskly. It stops jamming, the gardai gets a successful reading of your car not speading. That is the theory anyway. I would expect the gardai may well be suspicious anyway.

MrP

Savman

Anan1 wrote:

You're right. Laser detectors essentially tell you when you've just been caught.

Incorrect, you've about 2-3 seconds to slow the hell down although its not much. Bearing in mind that whoever is operating the laser gun might take 2-3 readings to be sure of your vehicle's speed.

Now if you're bombing it along double figures above the limit then you've no chance in hell of avoiding the trap but if you're a few km over (in which case 2 points is pretty harsh) you should have enough time to reduce speed (isn't that the whole point???)

Mc-BigE

This is interesting, parking sensors doubling as.......:cool:

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/laserpropark.htm

Anan1

MrPudding wrote:

Not strictly true apparently. The laser used are not highly focused high quality lasers so there does tend to be spill. The detector work by detecting this spill when the beam is focused on another car.

I did a good bit of homework on this around 3 years ago, when researching the M10 Blinder. The impression I got was the the beam is very tightly focussed. There would be a certain amount of "spill" due to moisture in the atmosphere etc, but this would apparently only widen the beam out to under a foot. From memory, I think the Blinder jams for 10 seconds. Remember also that your car is under observation at the time, so hard braking could well be noticed.

2 Espressi

£300 stg! I'd need to be in quite a rush for some time before that paid for itself!

MrPudding

Anan1 wrote:

I did a good bit of homework on this around 3 years ago, when researching the M10 Blinder. The impression I got was the the beam is very tightly focussed. There would be a certain amount of "spill" due to moisture in the atmosphere etc, but this would apparently only widen the beam out to under a foot. From memory, I think the Blinder jams for 10 seconds. Remember also that your car is under observation at the time, so hard braking could well be noticed.

10 Seconds is a very long time and probably would not be put down to something innocent. The device I heard about on Newstalk106 only jammed for 2 seconds. It showed up as a reading error on the gun and then cleared automatically. The longer the jam is the more like it is you will be oulled over anyway.

Breaking hard is not illegal. Judging it is also subjective. They need to get a reading.

All in all though I think you are very likely to get pulled anyway and have yuor car searched, well at least if you are really flying. If you are only a few Ks over the limit you would not need to break particulary hard.

MrP

Anan1

MrPudding wrote:

10 Seconds is a very long time and probably would not be put down to something innocent. The device I heard about on Newstalk106 only jammed for 2 seconds. It showed up as a reading error on the gun and then cleared automatically. The longer the jam is the more like it is you will be oulled over anyway.

Breaking hard is not illegal. Judging it is also subjective. They need to get a reading.

All in all though I think you are very likely to get pulled anyway and have yuor car searched, well at least if you are really flying. If you are only a few Ks over the limit you would not need to break particulary hard.

MrP

I think 10 secs is the max, you can always switch the thing off once you've got down to a legal speed. Apparently it's not all that unusual for them not to be able to get a read off a car, so they wouldn't necessarily find that suspicious. If it's any help, I can tell you that the thing worked like a dream any time I used it.

Sizzler

Never knew the laser jammers were illegal ! Im even more amazed that someone in Irish govt had the foresight to include this in a law that is now 15 yrs old...surely it must be as a joke

In fairness, I was more interested in the ones that give you a warning...I know someone who had one that beeped, told you there was a speed trap under a mile away so gave you a chance to hit the brake, thats all I want, piece of mind. Lets be honest unless you are a complete spanner in (insert random skangermobile) then the odds are that most people slip over the limit from time to time. So it would be nice to have that piece of mind IMO.

Anan1

Sizzler wrote:

In fairness, I was more interested in the ones that give you a warning...I know someone who had one that beeped, told you there was a speed trap under a mile away so gave you a chance to hit the brake, thats all I want, piece of mind.

A radar detector will do this for you, but not against laser. As far as I can see, with laser it's jam or be caught.

Pherekydes

Sizzler wrote:

Dont fancy getting done for driving at 62kmh in a 60 zone

It won't happen. You won't get a ticket unless you are 10% over the limit.

Idleater

Slow coach wrote:

It won't happen. You won't get a ticket unless you are 10% over the limit.

Again, not true. The law can be applied at any point at or above the Legal Speed Limit.

The 10% "allowance" is I believe, a myth. (Apart from in eg the States where the cops give you 5% margin of error and the machine 5% margin of error.)

L.

Mc-BigE

I bought a detector last year and everytime a passed a automated "SLOW DOWN" sign the rador would pickup the signal from the gun on top of the sign.
and i pass about 4 or 5 of these everyday going to work, so i first turned it down and finally unpluged it and don't use it anymore. waste of money.
the last straw was when i passed a Garda speed trap on the side of the road (doing 100kph) and the laser detector part didn't go off! and his gun was pointing straight at me!

Glad i found out while doing the speed limit. (which i always do by the way;) )

Anan1

Mc-BigE wrote:

Ithe last straw was when i passed a Garda speed trap on the side of the road (doing 100kph) and the laser detector part didn't go off! and his gun was pointing straight at me!

Glad i found out while doing the speed limit. (which i always do by the way;) )

I'm assuming your detector was dash mounted? This can be a problem with laser, as the beam is very narrow and the Guards tend to use the front reg plate as a target. This is why units such as the M10 Blinder have two sensors, which they recommend installing as close as possible to the front reg plate.

Pherekydes

nereid wrote:

Again, not true. The law can be applied at any point at or above the Legal Speed Limit.

The 10% "allowance" is I believe, a myth. (Apart from in eg the States where the cops give you 5% margin of error and the machine 5% margin of error.)

L.

I'm not saying it's a fact, I'm just saying it probably won't happen. Because of the error in a speedo, the Gardaí cannot prove you are speeding unless you are about 10% above the limit. You go to court and claim you were observing the limit as displayed by your speedo.

MrPudding

With regards to the error on the speedo, how far out are they now? I have come accross a number of those "watch you speed" signs that give you a readout and my speedo is spot on everytime I check.

MrP

Sizzler

Slow coach wrote:

It won't happen. You won't get a ticket unless you are 10% over the limit.

Ehh it will happen, I know at least 3 people that were done by over zealous coppers for 4-6kmh over the limit.

Sizzler

Slow coach wrote:

I'm not saying it's a fact, I'm just saying it probably won't happen. Because of the error in a speedo, the Gardaí cannot prove you are speeding unless you are about 10% above the limit. You go to court and claim you were observing the limit as displayed by your speedo.

Worth a shot if you ask me ! Have read plenty of cases where ppl have gone to court and the case was thrown out cos the cops hadnt had the gun calibrated(serviced) in the last 6 mths. Result ! The problem is people dont take the chance of going to court as they are afraid they will get hit with 4 pts instead of 2

Alun

MrPudding wrote:

With regards to the error on the speedo, how far out are they now? I have come accross a number of those "watch you speed" signs that give you a readout and my speedo is spot on everytime I check.

Wouldn't surprise me if the sneaky buggers added 10% onto the reading just to try and frighten you

My car's speedo, as do most others, consistently reads 10% faster than I'm actually travelling as measured by my GPS, so a few km/h over on the speedo reading isn't going to get you caught. If it does, then there's something seriously wrong with either the speed gun, it's calibration, or the way it was being used, none of which would entirely surprise me.

Pherekydes

Sizzler wrote:

Ehh it will happen, I know at least 3 people that were done by over zealous coppers for 4-6kmh over the limit.

It's not the amount, it's the proportion over. 44 is 10% over 40, 66 is 10% over 60, 88 is 10% over 80 and 132 is 10% over 120.

Do we have any 40 zones?

Sizzler

Yup, theres a residential area for 40 kmh coming from a 60 zone near me...prob implemented by the council though!

elexes

MrPudding wrote:

With regards to the error on the speedo, how far out are they now? I have come accross a number of those "watch you speed" signs that give you a readout and my speedo is spot on everytime I check.

MrP

i rember readinding somewhere about if you change your wheel size the dial will not be fully accurate . so it could give a faulse reading

cargrouch

Ya, if you put on wheels with a bigger outside diameter than the original set then you will cover more ground for every turn of the wheel. So although your speedo says 80, you will actually be travelling faster. You can fit bigger alloys and lower profile tires to keep the outside diameter close to the original. There are online calculators to figure it out. THe calculators will also give you a percentage error for your speedo after the change. But this will add or subtract to the original error of your speedo. Although I presume newer digital speedos are more accurate across the range than old school needles...

The 10% allowance is followed by at least one member of the force that I know - in good weather conditions, eg dry road, and as long as the driver is not driving dangerously/aggressively eg weaving, driving up peoples @rses. Potentially controversial exception - I have heard it said that any boy"wannabe"racers do not qualify for this allowance:D I would say it's more of a rule of thumb, and up to the individual garda...

Idleater

Slow coach wrote:

...You go to court and claim you were observing the limit as displayed by your speedo.

Again the "ignorance is no defence" comes into play.

By your reckoning, I could for example just set my speedometer to read 0-10kmph. Then set off and drive at 150 all the way...

"eh yeah officer, I was just driving according to what I believed was the speed as indicated by my speedometer - I think it was of the order of 8kmph":rolleyes:

No. As the driver of a vehicle, you drive in accordance with the rules of the road, in a vehicle that is suitably provided for in accordance to legislation.

The lenience and allowances given by Gardai et al, are just merely that, personal decisions. I think they have every right to "do" drivers for every infringement but if they choose not to that is up to them not to do so, not up to drivers to break the laws with guaranteed impunity.

L.

Alun

Although I presume newer digital speedos are more accurate across the range than old school needles...

Wrong. They're driven by exactly the same mechanisms as all modern speedos, i.e. electronic sensors. In any case, on modern cars with "analogue" speedos, even these are driven by electronics in the instrument cluster, and not long cables like in the "olden days". I guess the 10% over-reading is added in by the instrument cluster electronics.

Note that what we're talking about here is not a 10% allowance given by the gardai on their speed cameras, but an inherent inaccuracy in the speedo reading itself. If you're travelling at an indicated 110km/h, say, then in reality you're actually travelling at approx. 100km/h, so exactly at the limit. So, in theory, if the cops are excercising a 10% allowance, you could probably drive at an indicated 120km/h in a 100km/h limit and still get away with it, since the speed cameras measure your speed, not what you're seing on your speedo dial.

Seth Brundle

Sizzler wrote:

Worth a shot if you ask me ! Have read plenty of cases where ppl have gone to court and the case was thrown out cos the cops hadnt had the gun calibrated(serviced) in the last 6 mths. Result ! The problem is people dont take the chance of going to court as they are afraid they will get hit with 4 pts instead of 2

How did the calibration of the gun com e into the courtroom? I thought it was pretty much irrelevant as a defendant has to prove they are defective - the gardai don't have to prove anything as the law states that the equipment works fine, full stop.

cargrouch

Alun wrote:

Wrong. They're driven by exactly the same mechanisms as all modern speedos, i.e. electronic sensors. In any case, on modern cars with "analogue" speedos, even these are driven by electronics in the instrument cluster, and not long cables like in the "olden days". I guess the 10% over-reading is added in by the instrument cluster electronics.

OK, I made two assumptions before I posted that:
1) Analogue speedos are driven by induction motors (in the past I believe this was true) whether or not the input signal is from a digital sensor.
2) Induction motor speedos would not be accurate at all speeds.


It's the "control" of the analogue speedos that I was putting the innaccuracy down to. I think that the digital info coming from the sensors will be fairly accurate,and if you plug that into a digital speedo then you don't lose any accuracy. The only source of inaccuracy is the digital sensors.

But if this info is then converted to drive an induction motor then accuracy will be lost. That is, you now have two sources of inaccuracy - the digital sensor, and the analogue speedo.

Now, if my basic assumptions were wrong then obviously the rest of it is rubbish. But even if they were right I could still be talking out me @rse. And even if my theory is right, one or other of the inaccuracies could be so small as to be inconsequential - so all in all, I'm prepared to admit that my post had a fair potential to be wrong! (Or almost right:) )

Savman

And of course the Gardai are infalliable :rolleyes:

Alun

cargrouch wrote:

OK, I made two assumptions before I posted that:
1) Analogue speedos are driven by induction motors (in the past I believe this was true) whether or not the input signal is from a digital sensor.
2) Induction motor speedos would not be accurate at all speeds.

This is all from memory, but IIRC in the "olden days" there was a flexible shaft that took its drive off a small spur gear in the gearbox. This drove a rotating magnet in the speedo housing. The needle of the speedo was attached to a circular aluminium disc which was close to the rotating magnet, and the whole mechanism was lightly sprung to make the needle return to zero when the car was stationary. The rotating magnet on the shaft induced electric currents in this disc (and therefore a weak magnetic field), and this caused the disc and therefore the needle to rotate. All very inaccurate, and the needle was prone to a fair bit of "wobble", especially at high speeds.

I've no idea what mechanism is used in modern speedos to translate the electronic signal coming from the speed sensor to the physical "needle", but I'm guessing it's a small stepper type motor.

cargrouch

Alun wrote:

This is all from memory, but IIRC in the "olden days" there was a flexible shaft that took its drive off a small spur gear in the gearbox. This drove a rotating magnet in the speedo housing. The needle of the speedo was attached to a circular aluminium disc which was close to the rotating magnet, and the whole mechanism was lightly sprung to make the needle return to zero when the car was stationary. The rotating magnet on the shaft induced electric currents in this disc (and therefore a weak magnetic field), and this caused the disc and therefore the needle to rotate. All very inaccurate, and the needle was prone to a fair bit of "wobble", especially at high speeds.

I've no idea what mechanism is used in modern speedos to translate the electronic signal coming from the speed sensor to the physical "needle", but I'm guessing it's a small stepper type motor.

Spot on, the rotating magnet etc is an induction motor. I was assuming that the digital signal was still converted to drive one of these. If it's a stepper motor then the accuracy should be better.