Hyundai Sonata 2.0 CRDI 130bhp

colm_mcm

Drove this today and was mighty impressed, had driven the 2.4 Auto before and was disappointed. the engine was underpowered and whiney, and the autobox was a bit old fashioned.
The diesel is a completely different story, nice amount of power and the 6 speed box is nice in a Japanese kind of way.


It has leather aloys and climate as standard too!

Anyone else drive one of these?

Stephen

Looks far sexier than the old model, i must say. Never drove one though.

colm_mcm

Hyundai seem to be on the up. they seem to have got the reliability and styling sorted, going on the new Santa Fe and the Sonata. all they have to do is start fitting proper intergrated stereos, put the stalk controls the right way round, and start using better plastics and they might have a winner.

halkar

Listed price is 30k , for extra 3k one can go for Passat 1.9TDI Highline, considering how Hyundai depreciates I know which one I would go for

ds20prefecture

For the same list price you can have a 140bhp Octavia TDI in elegance trim with the DSG 'box. I assume that if you're in the market for a hyundai, you're not too badge conscious.

colm_mcm

halkar wrote:

Listed price is 30k , for extra 3k one can go for Passat 1.9TDI Highline, considering how Hyundai depreciates I know which one I would go for

Oh yeah! I'm not suggesting you actually buy one, more "watch this space!"

and the re obligatory Octavia mention, the Sonata is much bigger

RoundyMooney

An excellent secondhand buy of the future. I saw one recently in traffic, not knowing what it was, and was amazed when it pulled ahead to reveal its bootlid badge.

It'll fall like a stone in value, and remain reliable. Grab one in three or four years and give it to the wife

Squirrel

My dad has an old model, '03 and we've had no troubles with it whatsoever. Personally I prefer the shape of our one, it looks different to alot of other things, rather than a conventional 3 box design with conventional light clusters. That said I was looking in one today and it is quite nice (our one was being serviced and we were taking a look waiting to collect it, the demo one wasn't in though to get a test drive).

My dad is thinking of getting one next year as a company car. Does the 2.4 manual have a 5 or 6 speed 'box?

colm_mcm

Not too unlike the Accord

RoundyMooney

Funny that. I actually assumed it was an Accord when it was beside me, before it moved off. Nothing wrong with that. I think the Accord is a fine car. I assume Hyundai are still a lot of car for the money in terms of spec, which would make it even more of a secondhand bargain when the value falls a bit.

Our currently family hack is a 99 Leganza CDX with all the toys. Bought for a song (< €4k) from a Boardsie nearly a year ago. 25k since with routine servicing and not a bother on it. Driving experience doesn't bother me 'cos I only drive the thing once a week, if that.

Buying new isnt for me anymore. (I bought new twice in the last five years).

Stephen

colm_mcm wrote:

Hyundai seem to be on the up. they seem to have got the reliability and styling sorted, going on the new Santa Fe and the Sonata. all they have to do is start fitting proper intergrated stereos, put the stalk controls the right way round, and start using better plastics and they might have a winner.

It took me a couple of days to get used to it, but I now find that I really prefer having the indicator stalk on the right - makes changing gears on roundabouts and the like much easier.

Squirrel

Stephen wrote:

It took me a couple of days to get used to it, but I now find that I really prefer having the indicator stalk on the right - makes changing gears on roundabouts and the like much easier.

It makes more sense on the right I think. Left hookers have them on the left so the drivers can change gears on roundabouts easier. Our 4 old Spacewagons, Sonata, MR2 and old Micra had/have them on the right while our Micra now has them on the left and that took some getting used to by some family members

ds20prefecture

colm_mcm wrote:

and the re obligatory Octavia mention, the Sonata is much bigger

Its 9" longer - 5%. Hardly "much". Although the wheelbase is 6" longer, which is where you need it.

Squirrel

ds20prefecture wrote:

Its 9" longer - 5%. Hardly "much". Although the wheelbase is 6" longer, which is where you need it.

It is actually "much". My dad was considering an Octavia vRS as the next company car, but looked in the back of a normal one and said no way.

colm_mcm

In much the same fashion as the Polo Saloon, Seat Cordoba, Skoda Fabia Saloon, Bora, and Vento, they just stuck a huge boot onto a wheelbase intended for a smaller hatchback.

Great if you need a big boot, not so great if you've got rear passengers!

Bards

I'll add that I recently bought a 06 2.0L Petrol Sonata manual and am very happy with build/ride quality

was looking at a volvo 1.8se before i bough and when i check out residuals and was told (from the main volvo dealer) that in 3 years it would cost the bones of 18000-21000 to change the volvo, and (from the main Hyundai delaer) in and around 12k for the sonata I decided to go with the sonata.. 3yr unlimited milleage warranty and loads of extra's.. can hardly beat it


I had a 03 hyundai coupe before and traded for the Sonata

Hyundai are where Toyota were a few years ago.. nobody rated them then and now luok

colm_mcm

Bards wrote:

Hyundai are where Toyota were a few years ago.. nobody rated them then and now look

I reckon Hyundai will be very big, as long as the Chinese don't figure out how to make cars properly. then we're all screwed

Thats why a lot of manufacturers are trying to get a foothold over there

PauloMN

colm_mcm wrote:

I reckon Hyundai will be very big, as long as the Chinese don't figure out how to make cars properly. then we're all screwed

Thats why a lot of manufacturers are trying to get a foothold over there

You mean will be bigger surely, they were 8th last year for total sales, not bad at all. Well ahead of Skoda, Seat, Kia, Fiat, Suzuki - their main budget competitors - and others.

I think the new Sonata is certainly nice to look at - much much nicer than the old model. Never driven one though, I've only driven an Accent, which I didn't think much of.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

Not too unlike the Accord

I agree about the looks. Honda is pricing itself right out of the market though. How about the cheapest list prices of these models:

BMW 3-series €36k
Hyundai Sonata €28k
Honda Accord €34k

Really, cop on, Honda! :rolleyes:

colm_mcm

The Honda is the superior machine, especially compared to a 316i. far better spec and reliability. also doesn't look as strange as the BMW

bazz26

unkel wrote:

I agree about the looks. Honda is pricing itself right out of the market though. How about the cheapest list prices of these models:

BMW 3-series €36k
Hyundai Sonata €28k
Honda Accord €34k

Really, cop on, Honda! :rolleyes:

Well the Accord has a 2.0 engine compared to the 3 Series' 1.6. Also the entry level Accord has a sunroof and duel zone climate control as standard. The 316i has basic air conditioning and no sunroof. Add these and a few other extras and expect to pay close to €40k. Too much imo for the sake of having RWD in a 1.6 litre car. Of course the BMW will sell just for having the badge.

A fairer comparision would be the 320i which starts at €41.5k, again add in the extras found on the Accord and that will bump the price up another few grand.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

Well the Accord has a 2.0 engine compared to the 3 Series' 1.6. Also the entry level Accord has a sunroof and duel zone climate control as standard. The 316i has basic air conditioning and no sunroof

Granted, a bit of an unfair comparison with the engine difference, the €38k 2 liter 318i is a better match. I suspect for many people in the market for one of either (company car?) it won't matter much

My main point is that I get the feeling that the price of the Accord has been creeping towards that of a 3-series slowly but surely for quite some time now. I reckon they won't get away with it, but sure enough I could be wrong

Anybody any Irish sales stats for all Accords / 3-series over the last few years?

prospect

Regarding the 3 series Vs the Honda,

I don't really see how it can be argued that Honda are pricing themselves out of the market, and yet some people are happy to pay more money for the BMW, which is in most ways a poorer car..

The BMW, is less powerful, uglier, poorer spec, etc and yet more expensive.
The Honda, is better looking, far more reliable, sportier and much better specced, and its cheaper.
It really is a no brainer to me. I feel sorry that some people feel that BMW are a superior car. Because, the truth is, they are not.

Regarding the Hyundai,
Yes, like toyota, they will slowly start to hold value, then they will command better public opinion and as a result get more expensive.

bazz26

prospect wrote:

Regarding the Hyundai,
Yes, like toyota, they will slowly start to hold value, then they will command better public opinion and as a result get more expensive.

Yes, remember the days of the Pony and Stella? :eek: Hyundai have come along way since then while still keeping within their budget market segment. While the Irish market is relatively small buttons to most car manufactureres it is these type of markets (hight cost of car ownership) that can be exploited by the likes of Hyundai. If only they will sort out the Accent and Elantra now.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

The Honda is the superior machine, especially compared to a 316i. far better spec and reliability

prospect wrote:

The Honda, is better looking, far more reliable.

Hondas in general are very reliable. So are BMWs. To call one far more reliable than the other is simply not true

prospect wrote:

I feel sorry that some people feel that BMW are a superior car. Because, the truth is, they are not

According to who?

Anyway, back to my point (and apologies if it is deemed to be O/T) that for an Accord to only cost a couple of grand less than a similar 3-series, than (with higher depreciation), it is not going to be any cheaper to own over a few years. I'm not making any emotional statements here, just predicting that the pricing policy for the Accord might not be good for sales

bazz26 wrote:

Yes, remember the days of the Pony and Stella? :eek: Hyundai have come along way since then while still keeping within their budget market segment

Indeed they have. The Trajet seems to be a big seller here too

alias no.9

Didn't top gear enquire to hyundai about why the hyundai XG was more expensive than the almost identical Kia Magentis and were told you're paying for the premium badge there's badge snobbery everywhere I tells you

ds20prefecture

unkel wrote:

I agree about the looks. Honda is pricing itself right out of the market though. How about the cheapest list prices of these models:
BMW 3-series €36k
Hyundai Sonata €28k
Honda Accord €34k

Really, cop on, Honda! :rolleyes:

I imagine Honda and BMW are delighted to price themselves out of any market that has their product compared to Hyundai. It's all about the preserving the "brand", doncha know.

Skoda vs Hyundai is a much fairer comparison. Both are budget brands that produce bland, reasonable quality goods carefully pitched into the size gaps in the market. While the Hyundai is "much" (actually fractionally) bigger than the Octavia, the Octavia is aimed at the gap between Focus sized and Mondeo sized. Likewise, the Superb is a "much" bigger car than a Sonata yet in 140bhp 2.0tdi form only 2k more expensive.

Squirrel

alias no.9 wrote:

Didn't top gear enquire to hyundai about why the hyundai XG was more expensive than the almost identical Kia Magentis and were told you're paying for the premium badge there's badge snobbery everywhere I tells you

The XG is actually bigger than a Magentis, the Magentis uses the same floor as a Sonata but with the old running gear if I'm not mistaken. The Magentis uses the 2.5 V6 from the older Sonata while the now previous generation Sonata used the new 2.7

colm_mcm

BMWs are nowhere as reliable as Hondas, and there are many RELIABILITY surveys to back this up.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Anyway, back to my point (and apologies if it is deemed to be O/T) that for an Accord to only cost a couple of grand less than a similar 3-series, than (with higher depreciation), it is not going to be any cheaper to own over a few years. I'm not making any emotional statements here, just predicting that the pricing policy for the Accord might not be good for sales

I agree that the 316i will probably retain it's value better than the Accord for a few reasons. First off because the 316i will appeal to the image consious customer who is more concerned about having the right badge on the bonnet rather than having an underpowered engine and poorly equipped car. Secondly running costs, even though the BMW will cost the bones of €40k new the a 1.6 will sell all day faster than a 2.0 Accord in Ireland.

It makes me wonder though how someone can shell out almost €40k on a new car yet choose a 1.6 because it is that bit cheaper to run.

To turn the point the other way round the basic 1 Series costs €29k :eek: and that doesn't include air con or even electric rear windows as standard. Now that is overpriced, poorly equipped, ugly (imo) and cramped in the rear.

Another point is that image is a powerful weapon in the car industry, I don't think most buying a 3 Series or Accord would even consider looking at a Sonata even though it is a grand car and thousands cheaper.

colm_mcm

Bazz, the 316 is 1.9 litre

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

It makes me wonder though how someone can shell out almost €40k on a new car yet choose a 1.6 because it is that bit cheaper to run

Beyond me too as for another €2k one can buy the 318i (2 liter). Probaly mainly the badge and / or company car price limit

bazz26 wrote:

the basic 1 Series costs €29k :eek: and that doesn't include air con or even electric rear windows as standard

Seems very expensive, but then again, the cheapest 1.6FSI 5-door Golf costs €25k and doesn't have those goodies either. The cheapest 5-door A3 with that engine (no aircon) costs a shocking €30k :eek:

colm_mcm wrote:

Bazz, the 316 is 1.9 litre

No, Bazz is right. The 316i is recently added and it has a 1.6l engine

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

Bazz, the 316 is 1.9 litre

The latest model 316i is a 1.6 (the same 1.6 found in the 1 Series), it's only on sale in a few EU countries like Ireland where engine size is crippled by taxation.

colm_mcm

no way! that sucks, why would you pay so much for a 1.6 saloon thats Focus sized?

prospect

unkel wrote:

According to who?

[MY OPINION]:

Excluding the badge snobbery by Bleach Blonde, Fake Tan, D4, Bimbos there is not 1 reason why a BMW "should" be far more expensive than an equivalent Honda (or many other marques also)?

I am talking like with like, same size car, same engine, same equipment levels.

The way I see it is:
The Honda is more reliable, despite some peoples opinions.
The Honda is cheaper.
I think the Honda is better looking, especially over the new breed of BMW. (Civic excluded)
Hondas hold their value very well, like BMWs do.

Some people say the BMW is a better car to drive. Well I have driven a few BMWs in my time, and I have to say that I feel they are massively overrated. And even if they are better, it is only very marginally, and not worth the huge price difference.

I wish people would let go of this perception that BMW are the ultimate car. Sure, they are fine cars, but not what the badge snobs, price list would have you believe. Personally I think anyone who buys a BMW, new, is just trying to prove some point to others or themselves that they are wealthy, or better or whatever.

[/MY OPINION]

colm_mcm

only big engined BMW's are fun to drive, otherwise they're just average

maidhc

prospect wrote:

The way I see it is:
The Honda is more reliable, despite some peoples opinions.
The Honda is cheaper.
I think the Honda is better looking, especially over the new breed of BMW. (Civic excluded)
Hondas hold their value very well, like BMWs do.

But then, is a Honda overpriced in comparison to a Toyota?

colm_mcm

The Avensis is a victim of its own sucess. nobody wants to spend 40 grand on a 2.4 Sol that looks like a 1.6 Strata with 17 Alloys. It lacks exclusivity.

Was driving one today, there was one in front of and behind me, and I met one coming up the road, that won't happen in an Accord.

If the Accord was available in 1.6, nobody would buy the 2.0


I would also like to add, to those who haven't been in or driven an Accord, that it is a nice car, but a lot of the interior components such as the window switches are unmistakingly Honda parts bin specials. It doesn't quite have the premium feel of some German stuff, despite what most copy-cat articles will have you believe. lots of blanking panels where buttons might be complete the look.

prospect

maidhc wrote:

But then, is a Honda overpriced in comparison to a Toyota?

Probably,

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of honda. But it makes me smile when people talk about "premium" brands like BMW & Merc that have absoloutly no reason to be a premium brand, they should be referred to "Fashion Brands"

MTC.

Big Tone

I'm def gonna change my old (ish) Laguna for something decent secondhand. I was looking at the Passat 1.9TD 130Bhp Baseline but the 2002/3 models are still a bit pricey. Took one for a spin recently and they do pack a punch alright (have to take it handy from now on with all the speed cameras being installed) but I thought the interior let it down, very bland and basic just like the BMW 318 (1999 model) I looked at earlier, it seems you really have to go up in the range to get the extras and better interiors.

Lately I've been taking a bit of notice of the Hyundai range and in particular the Sonata 2.0 GLSi, the "Executive Saloon" no less (ahem.....excuse me!!).

I've looked at these in carzone.ie and couldn't believe the interiors, leather seats, Alloys, Metallic Paint, leather seats, Electric Windows, Central Locking, leather seats, Remote Central Locking, Immobiliser, leather seats, Drivers Air Bag, Passenger Air Bag, Multiple Air Bags, leather seats, CD Player, Radio-Cassette, Adjustable Steering Wheel, Rear Head Rests oh and did I mention leather seats, stuff that you'd have to pay more yo yos for in any of the aforementioned vehicles and all for what is a relatively low price. This one is the 2002 model and checks in at just under 11Gs and with 70k (miles) on the clock it seems not a bad buy on the face of it. In fairness it does sound an awful lot better than what you get from the traditional European brands for the same price.

Now I appreciate they depreciate badly but that doesn't concern me cause I'm not buying a brand new Sonata. I have yet to take one for a drive so the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.

tvr

Re Hyundai

Can some please explain why we only get a 3 year warranty in Ireland but the Brits get a five year warranty . Did they drop it in Ireland.

And are Hyundai cooking their sales by any chance , I very much enjoyed overtaking 8 trucks all loaded with the new sante fe ( which I like ) however they are all registered with number plates 06 D 79000 etc and similar county numbers.

Are they artifically making it the number one suv in Ireland by doing this . Anyone bought one that wasnt registered.

I would defo now consider a Hyundai at the minute as a second hand option especially as you say the new Sonata and Sante Fe in 3 years time . Its a pity they didnt keep the 5 year warranty as that would really be a deal clincher in a few years time.

I thing residuals would rise if a longer warranty was in Ireland. Also whats the story with Kia , there owned by Hyundai and they are looking at getting a 6 year warranty.

What price are those Kia Ceed going to be at?

gyppo

I got a spin in the new Sonata diesel a few weeks ago (only as a passenger though).
From a passenger viewpoint, its a very impressive car comfort wise. The only quibble I would have was the non-integrated audio unit, whuch looked out of place compared to the rest of the interior. Build quality looked good too.

This would be an excellent purchase as a used 2 year old car, when it will probably have lost at least half of its initial purchase price.

There is a definite fixation towards "premium brands" in this country. As Bazz rightly pointed out, people happily shell out loads for the badge, and then do with the base spec model with the entry level engine.
Imo, it makes far more sense to buy a lightly used "non-premium brand", which will be cheaper, most likely better appointed, and just as reliable as the more sought after brands. Enjoy the car, enjoy the extra's, have a nice holiday with what you saved, and forget about the badge on the bonnet.

However, if you really want to buy new, then everthing I've just said goes out the window.:D

bazz26

tvr wrote:

Re Hyundai

Can some please explain why we only get a 3 year warranty in Ireland but the Brits get a five year warranty . Did they drop it in Ireland.

And are Hyundai cooking their sales by any chance , I very much enjoyed overtaking 8 trucks all loaded with the new sante fe ( which I like ) however they are all registered with number plates 06 D 79000 etc and similar county numbers.

Are they artifically making it the number one suv in Ireland by doing this . Anyone bought one that wasnt registered.

I would defo now consider a Hyundai at the minute as a second hand option especially as you say the new Sonata and Sante Fe in 3 years time . Its a pity they didnt keep the 5 year warranty as that would really be a deal clincher in a few years time.

I thing residuals would rise if a longer warranty was in Ireland. Also whats the story with Kia , there owned by Hyundai and they are looking at getting a 6 year warranty.

What price are those Kia Ceed going to be at?

Fiat offer 4 years warranty on most of their cars and it hasn't improved their resale value.

Hyundai and others offer better warranties in the UK because it is a bigger more aggressive market than the Irish market. The Irish market is relatively small but Hyundai are still an established brand here. The UK market however is alot bigger and their share percentage is still very small indeed so they like Kia are still trying to crack it, in order to do this they must try and offer the UK consumer something that the main stream manufacturers don't. Kia are looking at offering a 7 year warranty in the UK afaik. In the US Hyundai and a few others have been offering 10 year warranties for a number of years to my knowledge.

Regarding the amount of Santa Fe 4x4s being registered and transported on trucks, well they are one of the most popular 4x4s with rental companies so what you probably seen was a fleet of them being returned as their lease has ended. It is very common this time of year as the tourist season is over. You will see transporters full of Ford Focus and VW Golfs, etc also.

jayok

[OT]
Honda's Accord sales increased 25% across Europe in 2003 and 2004 as a result of the new Accord. Someone is buying them.

Yes, Honda are pushing the prices upwards, but then again, you do get a decent amount of kit for the price. Take the top of the range 2.4 litre, executive it'll cost about €42k. Now spec a BMW 325 (or similar) to the same level - you are then heading north of €60k. This is the market they are after.

VRT screws things up here - remember it's based on the market value of the car. Not the actual base cost!

[/OT]

Apologies to the OP.

colm_mcm

These Santa Fe's are most likely hire drives.

these are also likely to be the new comercial model. lots of dealers are getting Hyundai Ireland demos

highdef

Well speaking about Hyundai's, I got myself a 2001 XG in July and simply love the thing. Haven't anything to it yet bar get a new stereo but mechanically, its sound and miles ahead the Scorpio I had previously. The engine is silky smooth as is the auto transmission which is also tiptronic. It has every gadget I could ask for (except rear parking sensors which I miss) and the 2.5l V6 engine from the Galant is amazing. I admit the Sonata is a lovely car, especially the latest model but for a truly luxury car with rock solid reliability and an amazing price, you cant go wrong. I got mine from a dealership with an asking price of under 7k - and that was before trade-in!!!! There are not many about which makes them even nicer to see on the road. In fact, when in work today on the first floor, one of my collegue was looking out the window, saw my car below and said, "I wonder who owns that Lexus". Enough said. But yeah, I reckon you cant go wrong with a Sonata. But be brave and take the plunge for the posher bigger version of the Sonata with VERY unique looks.

tvr

highdef , a scorpio and a lg , they have got to be the ugliest car in the world . Youre making me sick just thinking about it , its ok for you as your inside them but come on thing of the children........

highdef

TVR, yeah I know the Scorpio is not to everyone's taste which is why I had a rare end of line facelifted model that was a lot more subtle and way WAY nicer than the regular Scorpio's. I think the XG is a fabulous looking car. It's black, tinted windows, lots of chrome. It is quite like the outgoing Sonata, esp from the rear. And it get's mistaken for being a Lexus a bit and even a Lincoln (WTF???) - But taste is a personal thing and its cool if you dont like them. But even if I wasn't mad about the external looks, the inside would rival an S-Class and I didn't have 1 problem with the Scoripo in over 2 years of ownership and the XG will hopefully be the same too

colm_mcm

gorgeous alright

galwaytt

Well, on the whole Skoda/Passat/VW comparo, let me say this:

I covered 10k in a 130bhp Tiptronic Highline Passat last year, and 12k this year in a VW Golf Plus with DSG, and one thing I can tell you, VW's are as mean as sh!te when it comes to equipment. The Passat was very well equipped, but it'd want to be for €39k. The Golf had nothing - and I mean nothing - for €31k. No elec windows in rear, no aircon of any kind, cloth seats, plastic steering wheel, no 'toys'.....it was also the most uncomfortable car I've ever been in, seat-wise......

The Passat was not light on juice - about 38mpg, whilst the Golf did about 44mpg. And you would not want a Passat after 3 years - the 6-link suspension usually goes kaputt around 60k, and full rebuild is around 1k.

No, I've been there, done that. Including a pair of TT's (3 x recalls, and too many electrical problems), and I'm cured of the whole German car thing, I can tell you. I test drove a new shape 320d recently, and whilst it looked lovely, and inside it's a million miles better than the 1985-look of the outgoing model, it rides like a cart. Kidney bashing is the only word that comes to mind. The older model drives better, but snag is, they're EVERYWHERE !! So much for exclusivity !

And they're not infallible. Front bottom links go AWOL around 60k, regularly. My friend's 320d Touring ate it's computer, and cost 1k to fix. Then his wife's 525td Touring started the flashing dash light syndrome..........it's now for sale.....lovely to drive though.

No, me, I'm heading to the Orient for my next fix, that's for definate. And I really, like the new Santa Fe. The Accord too, but the 2.2 diesel is way out of touch for this market - it needs to be 1.9 or less to sell, as the VRT is killing it. It also looks incredibly.........boring. So better save for some wheels too, but at least it'll never stop.

So, who wants to buy an 01 E-Class, then - not mentioned here yet, but oozes class, and unlike 02 -on-models (Kia-look ! ), then gimme a PM. You'd be surprised what you'd get for Eur 22k...........:)

galwaytt

oh, nearly forgot - the Skoda thing.

Personally, I think they're good value for money, and the current one is nicely finished inside. A colleague just go one, and for €31k he got a Skoda Octavia Estate with all the toys, bar leather. Including DSG (which, btw, is even better than they say it is...)

It drives very well, and whilst the rear looks a bit ho-hum, it has good seats (hello, VW, you're sibling is out-performing you here...........), and it goes on fumes.........so, for the money, it's hard to beat.

And I see they've now brought out a vRS Diesel. With the DSG box, that'd be some tool..........