Lee Morrison seminar

Odysseus

Hi all, just been checking out the urban combatives website, Lee Morrison is doing a seminar here on May 6th. Don't know much about this guy, anyone here know of his work, or done any training with him?

Cheers.

Baggio...

He's good!

If you are into Combatives/RBSD, def. check it out. He has been very influenced by Fairbairn, O'Neil, Geoff Thompson, Mc Cann, Etc.

I have a few of his DVDs - good material on them, and he's a talented fella'.
And at 80 Euro that's pretty darn cheap. Check it out...

Odysseus

Cheers mate, thanks for that Baggio, I just booked it there. Yeah your right 80 euro is not bad. I'll let you know what I think of it.

Baggio...

No worries mate, glad I could help.

If you are into that side of things you will really like Lee's seminar. Mick Coup will be coming over at some stage in the near future, I'd recommend you check that out also. If you need any more info on the Combatives side of this just give me a shout.

Later bro',

Bagg.

Odysseus

Yeah nice one mate, keep me informed about the Mick Coup stuff I'd be interested in that. Cheers

Baggio...

Will do...

Catch you later mate.

Bagg.

Im2Lazy

Hi Odysseus,

I've sent you a Private Message, can you check it out.

yomchi

is booking essential or can you just turn up on the day?

Odysseus

Hi Jon, yeah you have to book it mate, check out the ubran combatives site the contact details are there.

yomchi

will do, thanks

Millionaire

Hey

Did anyone go to this semniar?

What was it like???

Anyone care to post an informative review???

yomchi

Millionaire wrote:

Hey

Did anyone go to this semniar?

What was it like???

Anyone care to post an informative review???

Yeh I was at it. Hve to say it was money well spent Lee Morrison knows his stuff and has a unique and simple teaching method. I would recommend a seminar with him anytime. I hope he comes back soon enough.
Apart from his excellent teaching ability he's one scary dude!

Millionaire

Thanks Jon.

Yes, I am certainly familiar with his work and what he teaches. I train it myself.

was that your first exposure to combatives or have you been training in it already?

Scary...he sure hits hard! Open hand slap...BANG!!!!!

yomchi

Millionaire wrote:

Thanks Jon.

Yes, I am certainly familiar with his work and what he teaches. I train it myself.

was that your first exposure to combatives or have you been training in it already?

Scary...he sure hits hard! Open hand slap...BANG!!!!!

Yeh first time at an RBSD seminar. I have to say it was a real eye opener- coming from a traditional TKD back ground. I want to know and learn more about this kind of training. The standard TMA approach to self defence doesn't come close to this stuff; its real, its simple and effective.
I was impressed by the whole forward pressure and vehemence thing, bloody ruthless!!
I enjoyed the day immensley, thanks to Aidan from Krav Maga Ireland!

Baggio...

Lee really knows how to generate some power. Did he say that he will be coming back to Ireland at some point?

Cheers,

B.

Millionaire

Its 90% vehemence really.

Once you have that attitude thats half the battle.

Oh Yes... and practice you favourite strikes 1000s and 1000s of times
to master them! that is very important too!

Was working some Open hand strikes myself on the bag yesterday. there great for generating KO power!

Baggio...

I'd agree with you there. It's all about attack mentality (But you do got to put the reps in also).
I use open hands all the time now. I originally used to punch, but when I discovered this stuff 3 years ago, that all changed. No more sore fists...:)

Millionaire

Speaking of sore fists...

If people are not convienced that you can potentially
break your hand punching someone...

Go to a heavy bag...preferably a rock hard Thai bag..

Visualize have to defend yourself, and then let loose a few
hard as you can combos of punches BARE Fisted, and see how
close you come to snapping your wrists.

Open hand is way to go! though I still believe one should be a good
boxer too, and still train punches as a back up.

Baggio...

Very true! I still punch my bag also, but it's pretty soft. It's always vital to be able to punch properly (although I'm still learning:) ).

Another good question is to ask a hardened puncher. "If you had to. Which would you rather punch a concrete wall with, a clenched fist, or an open hand?"

To me the answers pretty obvious....;)

Roper

Another good question is to ask a hardened puncher. "If you had to. Which would you rather punch a concrete wall with, a clenched fist, or an open hand?"

Then I would ask, why the f*ck would I want to hit a concrete wall?

Sometimes lads, this RBSD stuff really gets my frickin goat...

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

Then I would ask, why the f*ck would I want to hit a concrete wall?

Sometimes lads, this RBSD stuff really gets my frickin goat...

Common Roper...use the ol brains!!

its an example to explain a basic fact...

if you punch someone full out, and hit the hard part of
the head...there is a chance you may break hand, or injure it.

sure did it or did it not happen Tyson in NYC a few years back.
and don't try to tell me he did not punch properly.

even that MMA guy Baz Rutten mentions that a hand injury could happen
on his DVD. and indeed in the beginnings of Prancras , did alot of the fighter palm shot their opponents on the ground??? as opposed to punch.

if you believe what I say is BS...then step up and lash that ol rock hard bag in bridgestone out of it, full whack bare fits...and ask yorself why do boxers, thai boxers, wrap their hands if you cannot get injured punching.

Odysseus

Yeah I have to say I really enjoyed the seminar, there was not really anything new for me and some of the others that attended, it was basic combatives. However, Lee had a very good teaching manner and was very approachable, though I agree with Jon, he was a scary m/f when he flicked the switched on! He had me in a clinch at one stage and was laying in some knees, and believe he was throwing me around like a rag doll, and you could really feel the knees through the pad.

Basically, he was teaching heel plams/tiger claws, open handed slaps, Hammer fists, elbows and knees. What was different for me here was that he did'nt strike with his left, rather he perfered to use to use it to anchor the person and cycle his weapons with the other hand.

On top of this there were some lectures about awareness, pre-emption, and mindset, once again there was nothing really new here, however, he had a different approach, and used different metaphors, theories, and frameworks to explain it.

On top of this he had some good conflict management drills, and taught some basic takedowns. So for me I have to say I would train with him again, as I think Saturday was a basic intro if you like, and I think he has a lot more to offer, for example the shredder was not even metioned. Finally, from talking to people there on the day the feedback was very postive.

yomchi

Looks like I picked the right seminar to start with! I'd love to see more advanced stuff being played out. I've heard the shredder stuff is good. I got some DVD's from Richard Dimitri not to long back, its excellent training.

Baggio...

Poor old Roper.

I'm not asking anyone to hit concrete walls (I cant believe I actually had to say that)...Try to look beyond the surface of the comment. Not to worry. Millionaire has pretty much explained it with the story of Mike Tyson busting his hand up.

Millionaire

Yes Seamus, I see that on the DVD, how he anchore, sort of touching the
person with on hand, and hitting them full on with the other, bang bang bang.

Plus he's got real world experience...lots of it! which ads to his credibility immensely.

Shredder is a good concept.

In fact I have been asked to teach it to a Jeet Kune Do group in bangkok next month, which is kind of nice!!

Roper

Poor old Roper eh?

Thanks for the sympathetic comments lads but I understood the implictions of the concrete wall quote, it wasn't exactly the enigma code. IMO, and you can disagree with me (that's allowed I heard) there is far too much emphasis placed upon the "dirty shots" with little or no emphasis placd on the movement and timing required to place them. So next time someone asks me "ah yes but would you rather slap or punch a concrete wall" I'm going to ask "well what if the concrete wall was moving and hittting back would you have the delivery system to move against it and time your shots?"

Rant over.

Baggio...

Yes, we do take moving targets into account...:p

Millionaire

street happens so fast Roper, you won't get time, to time shots.

its not a sparring match.

Its more like Hit and Run! (escape)

Roper

Why isn't there a *slap head, look dispondently at the floor* emoticon?? I'll just settle for this

You're both totally missing my point, but something tells me that if even if you saw it it wouldn't matter. Best of luck slapping the walls folks, I'm going for a coffee and to study... ugh...see what you've driven me to?

Millionaire

here slapped a wall yet...though have slapped a few hard man thugs!

Now slap...thats a great technique!!!

Time poor ol mill to semi retire from boards.ie and see company of
kindersouls on the forum at www.geoffthompson.com

Serious Roper..if course we have the delievery systems..

any RBSD man or woman worth their salt, will be doing boxing, thai,
mma. etc to back up the Combatives stuff.

For example Lee Morrission says he trains with top rated boxers
once a week, gloves up and spars. geoff thompson lads did the same.
you have to do it to be good!

Baggio...

Mill is spot on.

You've got to train in something else such as boxing. If you don't, your skills will end up being very average, and chances are you wont be prepared for a street fight. Just on the whole “moving targets” issue.
To quote another source - Kelly Mc Cann. "A fight by its very nature is a struggle".

At least we've got you going back to your books. Good luck in your leaving cert! I'm currently guzzling down my coffee (Lavaza btw), and slapping my hand off every wall in the house. It's so much fun!

Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...Slap!... “Owww”...:D

Later,

B.

judomick

Millionaire wrote:

any RBSD man or woman worth their salt, will be doing boxing, thai,
mma. etc to back up the Combatives stuff.

imo that staement should be the other way round, the arts involved in the latter are the delivery systems, combatives imo are the accessories for the street

Baggio...

Nope... Mill is right.

For me boxing is a skill to improve my Combatives. I think you may be getting the wrong end of the stick. Combatives is a very complete system in it's own right. However, even when I practice my boxing skills they are all geared towards how I would fight on the street. Open hands, combinations suitable for High line & low line targets (which of course don't exist in sport boxing). Also 99% of initial strikes will use a “drop step”. But I would spend a huge amount of time clobbering a hard bag or BOB to develop speed, and impact power. I would always use virtually the same body mechanics as a boxer, as it's the best and most efficient way to hit a target. Actually, you could say I don't really box per se. Probably more accurate to say I practice “Post or Neo” Boxing if you wanted to be technical about it:D . Is that the best way to train? it is for me. Everyone has their own way of doing things though.

Roper

Baggio... wrote:

At least we've got you going back to your books. Good luck in your leaving cert!

LOL:D You can have that one Baggio. It's a gimme.

Millionaire

yes, if your goal is Combatives for SD. (as opposed to MA for ring).

The Combatives come first, cause that your primary technique.

As the JKD guys call it, the Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing etc would be "attribute training". there is support for primary method.

like now I would be concentraing on developing devestation power
and speed when hitting the bag, (with Vehemence mind set)
a few years back when I was a mere kickboxer, i was more into speed,
bobing & weaving, jab jab jab. (cause we trained for ring) which is a slightly different style of boxing.

Though to be honest I still mix both methods. for variety and for fun!

Baggio...

Roper,

See... at least I'm good at something, even if it's a study motivator!:D

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

Nope... Mill is right.

. I would always use virtually the same body mechanics as a boxer, as it's the best and most efficient way to hit a target. Actually, you could say I don't really box per se. Probably more accurate to say I practice “Post or Neo” Boxing if you wanted to be technical about it:D .

not trying to be argumentative here, just not sure on exactly what type of delivery system combatives uses, the above post says you use the same body mechanics as a boxer, which would indicate you use boxing to deliver your strikes? "post or neo"?

Baggio...

What part of the "Neo" or "post" concept do you not understand?

loz

Baggio... wrote:

What part of the "Neo" or "post" concept do you not understand?

Call me ingorant - but could you explain for us non-boxers ?

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

What part of the "Neo" or "post" concept do you not understand?

the neo and the post part

Baggio...

I should have just kept my oversized gob shut:) .

Okay, I'll try to explain, but it's going to be a bit of a let down. It's not important.
So were all happy with the concept of Combatives using boxing body mechanics right (virtually the same anyway)? I added the terms “neo” and “post” to indicate something that has gone beyond what it was originally (changed style or functionality over a period of time). These are not in any way fighting terms per se. Like “Post-modern Architecture” or “Post Punk”. I can't really say it's boxing because it's not really the same, but it has had a huge influence on Combatives. Combatives uses things like Dirty shots, open hands, gouges, leg strikes, etc. These are obviously not found in“sport boxing”. Ergo it can't be the same:D .

Hope this is a little clearer now, like I said, it's not really important. I was just making a small observation.

Cheers.

B.

loz

Baggio... wrote:

Okay, I'll try to explain, but it's going to be a bit of a let down.

Agree

Baggio...

told ya...

Although, you should have been able to figure it out for yourself.

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

So were all happy with the concept of Combatives using boxing body mechanics right (virtually the same anyway)? Combatives uses things like Dirty shots, open hands, gouges, leg strikes, etc. These are obviously not found in“sport boxing”. Ergo it can't be the same:D .
B.

sorry to pick, so if you use boxing mechanics, dirty shots etc, are they delivered in the same way a hook or uppercut, or even a low blow would be?

Roper

*sigh*
This was my moving wall point. I don't think us sports guys are on the same plane as you combatives folk when we refer to a "delivery system". Baggio, you seem to be talking about slaps, dirty shots etc. This isn't a delivery system, it's a list of techniques.

So I suppose Mick's question still stands: What's the delivery system used to deliver these techniques?

Millionaire

Right now 95% of my training this past 6 months has been as a "sports guy" over here in beautilful land of the Smile (Thailand)...

I just do a wee bit of combatives to keep it in the muscle memory and of course i do visualization of the techniques all the time.

Thats the beauty of combatives, once you train it for a period intensive, it becomes part of you, and a little bit of work keeps it tight. now as I always say on here, right now thats back up by a minimum of 2 hours sometimes 3 hours Thai a day.

Combatives is so simple to learn, there is very very little in it. and its of street situations, an extremely deady simple wee system to know.

Ya know its no big deal combatives is...any of you lads on here, training regular, I could teach you it all in a few hours...after that its up to you to practice it to master it...its that simple. in fact if your a strike, you d get 80% of it down from a DVD.....if you practiced it consistent.

thats why it exists, it was developed for WWII commandos and secret service people who operated behind nazi lines. its been tried and tested in situations which resulted in the most extreme of consequences.

its a simple system and its best to leave it simple.

Baggio...

Hey JM,

Here are a few examples:

Okay, if I was going to say jab someone in the eye, as an opener for a series of stronger techniques. I would simply throw a left Boxer type jab (head tucked and using body weight, etc.). But my fingers are open in the correct manner (so you don't bust up your fingers). If I was to throw a "cupped hand blow", I would use a boxers hook motion. But my hand is now "cupped" and going for the targets ear (if I miss the ear, which I probably will under stress, I'll still deliver neck trauma, thus still creating a good referral shock. If the ear is struck with that "concussive impact" the opponent is in real trouble. If I was going to use a "Tiger Claw" (as it's often called) I would use a right cross, however the hand is now open with the fingers splayed, so hopefully one of the fingers will impact the eye at the same time as the strike. Also, with the hand open it's very unlikely that you will damage your hand.

These techniques are pretty extreme, and would only ever be used if I had no other choice (i.e. - in a life threatening situation). My first priority is to avoid and escape.

Bagg.

Baggio...

Hey Mill,

Good post there BTW,

Cheers,

B.

judomick

so you use boxing as a delivery system, you just alter it slightly i.e openhanded hook etc etc,

so my original post was correct or am i still getting the wrong end of the stick?

Mill, im really curious, if it only takes a short period of training, to learn combatives and a long period to learn thai surely thai boxing is the delivery system and combatives are the accessories or "twists" as per my original post?

as you stated a striker can learn combatives quickly, would this because he already posesses skill in the delivery system and only needs to learn the "twists" on the techniques?

Baggio...

Roper,

You are right, we are not on the same wave length....But that's life:) .

While there are definitely some techniques in there, sch as “cupped hand blow”, etc. My method of punching is that of open hands - ALWAYS (for training I'll use the fists the odd time). Also, the techniques are non-specific, and if anyone is using specific techs. They are not applying combative principles correctly. There is always the odd strike that does not follow in the footsteps of boxing. Like the edge of hand blow (not to mistaken as a regular chop). Also, the targeting is quite different to boxing, you can't really target properly with large gloves on (eyes, etc).

It's really too hard to explain this stuff over the email.

B.

Roper

Theres really no need to explain it. I've been exposed to the combatives concepts or similar before. I understand the concept behind it, I just don't particularly agree with the mindset.

Point is, it's a totally different hymsheet we're reading from. I suppose we could get into our whole philosophical argument about the purposes of your training, and the psychological effect of training for a constant perceived threat. But that's old ground, and probably one to be discussed over a feed of beer.