Lying in the Census

Siogfinsceal

do you have to tell the truth - can you get in much trouble for lying? My mates dad used to put down that they all spoke Irish fluently at all times for the laugh

Sleepy

I hate feckers like that. It's not a laugh to lie on the census, it means you end contributing to people's arguments to spend money on things we don't actually need in this country.

ferdi

dont **** with the census....other that questions of religion, race or sexuality - i think its perfectly fair to mess with those stats.

super_furry

The ammount of people I've spoken to that have put down Jedi as religion is huge.

Beruthiel

Siogfinsceal wrote:

My mates dad used to put down that they all spoke Irish fluently at all times for the laugh

that has got to be one of the most stupid things I've read in a while.
what would be the point of lying on such a document :rolleyes:

Hermione*

As a history student, don't! Censuses are used by historians to analyse social change. The reason we know more about the 19th century than the 18th is down to the introdustion of censuses.

Also, planning in Ireland is c**p enough as it is. Do you really want to help exacerbate that situation?!

thegills

There are probably hundreds of thousands of single mothers living with boyfriends who will claim to me living alone for the purpose of the census not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who claim to be Catholics but don't even go to mass.

So lying about speaking Irish will only be the tip of the iceberg.

Oh and there will be 20,000 Munster fans who won't be home on the Sunday night either.

scargill

cant help feeling that these census forms just end up in dusty warehouse somewhere. i know they say that they need the information for future planning for roads, schools, hospitals, etc, etc.

they dont seem to have used the census info from the 70s very well now do they ?! did they not know there was a baby boom and that we'd all be looking for houses in the 90s ??? or maybe they hoped we'd all still be emigrating ?

BaZmO*

thegills wrote:

There are probably hundreds of thousands of single mothers living with boyfriends who will claim to me living alone for the purpose of the census

Well they are foolish if they do that because the Census is confidential and they also might be depriving themselves of essential services by skewing the results.

thegills wrote:

not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who claim to be Catholics but don't even go to mass.

Don't be silly. You are still Catholic if you don't go to mass.

thegills wrote:

So lying about speaking Irish will only be the tip of the iceberg.

It's still lying nonetheless. And pointless lying at that.

ferdi

BaZmO* wrote:

Don't be silly. You are still Catholic if you don't go to mass

explain? how are you a catholic if you dont practice a core part of your faith? people who say they are catholic yet dont attend mass/confession etc are kidding themselves, this kind of 'à la carte' religion is foolish, self dillusionary and insulting to real catholics.
are you are taking 'catholic' to mean you were baptised and thats it>?

Zillah

scargill wrote:

they dont seem to have used the census info from the 70s very well now do they ?!

Census forms are insanely useful for historians. They often check census forms from a hundred years ago or more to track people.

BaZmO*

ferdi wrote:

explain? how are you a catholic if you dont practice a core part of your faith? people who say they are catholic yet dont attend mass/confession etc are kidding themselves, this kind of 'à la carte' religion is foolish, self dillusionary and insulting to real catholics.
are you are taking 'catholic' to mean you were baptised and thats it>?

Ah c'mon. You would still be a catholic, just not a devout catholic.

Wertz

BaZmO* wrote:

Well they are foolish if they do that because the Census is confidential and they also might be depriving themselves of essential services by skewing the results.

lol, You want to be the one trying to explain that to them?

To the average idiot, the census is another government form just like they fill up down the dole office, or at the local DSFA...lying on those is a prerequisite or it's goodbye "book", goodbye rent allowance, goodbye whatever other handout is on the cards...you honestly think they'd believe that the CSO isn't just another arm of the "system" trying to catch them out in their lie?

I won't be lying on my form, for the sole reason that I've nothing to lie about...but if I had, I'd be vaguely suspicious of the CSO too, perhaps unfounded but then I'm no legal eagle; how do I know the data gathered is 100% protected...because they say it is?

Hobbes

scargill wrote:

cant help feeling that these census forms just end up in dusty warehouse somewhere.

www.cso.ie

and they do use the stats. For example saying you speak fluent Irish in the area meant that you lower the chances that resources are put into that area for increasing the Irish resources there, or it could be the reverse and they turn it into a gaeltacht

scojones

Lying on the census is retarded.

ferdi

BaZmO* wrote:

Ah c'mon. You would still be a catholic, just not a devout catholic.

no, sorry, i cant agree with you there - 'catholic' is just another word, meaningless unless you actually practice it properly.

(ps:i am not catholic)

Hermione*

ferdi wrote:

explain? how are you a catholic if you dont practice a core part of your faith? people who say they are catholic yet dont attend mass/confession etc are kidding themselves, this kind of 'à la carte' religion is foolish, self dillusionary and insulting to real catholics.
are you are taking 'catholic' to mean you were baptised and thats it>?

My dad didn't go to Mass regularly for, about, ten years maybe? Not sure exactly, he didn't advertise the fact when we were small children. He worked most Sundays, so he ended uo missing Mass. But he still believed in the majority of the Catholic doctrine, and he'd sometimes go to a midweek Mass to compensate. IMO, it's better not to go often and have it actually mean something to you than to go every week and not believe a word of Catholicism.

And the Munster fans can go down on their home census form as 'absent' on that night but normarly resident at that address.

ferdi

meh, for me catholc means someone who sacrifices things like work and rugby matches in order to celebrate and practice all the sacraments - someone who does not do this yet still believes in God is a christian, not a catholic.

Wertz

In the case of religious persuasions, why does it matter to the CSO? Is it just for archive purposes or a snapshot of society? I mean it's not as if the government is going to start building new churches/mosques/synagogues/ancient stone circles/deathstars on the back of the data is it?

ferdi

*agees with wertz.
thats why i think its fair game to **** with the religion stats

Cake Fiend

If you're going to mess with the religion stats, please put down something more imaginative than 'Jedi' or I'll have an extra-large rolleyes waiting for you.

themole

Siogfinsceal wrote:

do you have to tell the truth - can you get in much trouble for lying? My mates dad used to put down that they all spoke Irish fluently at all times for the laugh

to answer the very first question.

on the form is says you can be fined up to €25,000 for knowlingly giving false information in the census form

Terry

a deathstar would be cool though.
ok. everyone put down jedi as your religion and then we'll petition the government for our very own deathstar. or an x-wing at the very least.

Wertz

Just had a quick read through the form again...why oh why could "Non-practicing catholic" not have been made an option since I'd imagine that's what the vast majority of partakers in the census actually are? Yes I know it's not a religion per se, but for the sake of statistical analyses, it'd be far more accurate, no?

Julesie

Have to agree with you Wertz about the non-practicing Catholic option.. could be quite revealing.

I dont know why they dont give the enumerators some sort of laptop/pda to electronically record answers or offer a web based service. I realise there would be issues of security and confidentiality but its not like a paper form is all that more secure.

Siogfinsceal

just to clarify it was my mates dad that did that not me. didnt lie myself, no reason to. i was just curious as id imagine lots of people do. as someone mentioned the unmarried mothers - happens all the time they lie cos if they have someone living with them they will end up with less money coming in.
as for the religion issue I am cathloiuc, I was baptised. I believe there is a god I do not go to church and I do not believe the teachings of the cathloic church per say. They took 4 bibles out of over 80 and altered them and expect us to follow their rules which change according to their whim. If there is a benevolent god he will look after me regardless of wether I sat in a church an hour a week surrounded by people who probably include wife beaters, biggots and the like who think its okay cos they went to mass.
Unfortunately 'pagan' is taken to mean someone who has no god. that is not correct. A 'pagan' is someone who doesnt believe in the catholic god. When catholosicm took over it labelled all other religions as false or pagan

BuffyBot

that has got to be one of the most stupid things I've read in a while.

This is what you get when you let people with single digit IQ's procreate.

Siogfinsceal

insulting me or my parents wont end well buffybot thats crossing a line. if you dont like the post then leave its after hours theres been far more stupid things posted in this forum before

BaZmO*

Wertz wrote:

lol, You want to be the one trying to explain that to them?

To the average idiot, the census is another government form just like they fill up down the dole office, or at the local DSFA...lying on those is a prerequisite or it's goodbye "book", goodbye rent allowance, goodbye whatever other handout is on the cards...you honestly think they'd believe that the CSO isn't just another arm of the "system" trying to catch them out in their lie?

I know this is true but I was just pointing out the fact that the Census is confidential.

ferdi wrote:

meh, for me catholc means someone who sacrifices things like work and rugby matches in order to celebrate and practice all the sacraments - someone who does not do this yet still believes in God is a christian, not a catholic.

That's fine, that's your definition and I respect it. But a lot, if not most, Irish people don't go to mass every Sunday and they would consider themselves Catholic.
You can get into to the semantics of it if you like, but when most Irish people are Baptised in a Catholic Church, have their Confirmation and Communions in the Catholic Church, Get married in a Catholic Church and have their funeral mass in a Catholic Church, to me that would suggest that they are Catholics. You might call it an "A la Carte" approach to Catholicism but that's their choice.

danniemcq

Remember your religion is Jedi. Thats all that counts

cute_cow

ferdi wrote:

explain? how are you a catholic if you dont practice a core part of your faith? people who say they are catholic yet dont attend mass/confession etc are kidding themselves, this kind of 'à la carte' religion is foolish, self dillusionary and insulting to real catholics.
are you are taking 'catholic' to mean you were baptised and thats it>?

don't know about you but i was christened as a catholic and i don;t go to mass but i stil say i am a cathlic, whats the point in lying and saying your not, even when you are, isn't that worse.
:rolleyes:

Hermione*

ferdi wrote:

meh, for me catholc means someone who sacrifices things like work and rugby matches in order to celebrate and practice all the sacraments - someone who does not do this yet still believes in God is a christian, not a catholic.

That's what you think, fine. I'd imagine Dad took the approach that it was the 1980s and he was very lucky to have a job, and he really needed his job. Eight am to eight pm doesn't leave much time or inclination for Mass, and I'm not exaggerating those hours. He did actually go to Mass on his Sundays off, when he stopped shiftwork he starting ghoing to Mass most weeks. There's a difference between not going to Mass and not going to Mass every week imo.

Btw, Catholicism is actually a form of Christianity. There are differences between the two besides a belief in God. But you're entitled to perceive it as you wish.

ferdi

BaZmO* wrote:

You might call it an "A la Carte" approach to Catholicism but that's their choice.

people dont really get to choose what catholicsm means - i think it has to be one thing or the other or else whats the point in have a word for it? i could call myself black - it wouldnt make me black though.

I was baptised, had my communion and was confirmed into the catholic faith - that does not mean i am catholic.

unless you actually practice it, calling yourself catholic is total bull****.

BaZmO* wrote:

But a lot, if not most, Irish people don't go to mass every Sunday and they would consider themselves Catholic.

again, this is not their definition to construct. in calling themselves catholic they must give some of their authoriy to the chuch - when renewing their baptismal vows catholics are meant to profess they: "believe in and openly profess the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting".

i just dont see the point in saying you are something when your not - as you said -"most Irish people don't go to mass every Sunday and they would consider themselves Catholic" - i would go further and say most irish people do not believe there is anything wrong with contraception, sex before marriage, homosexuality etc. but being catholic means following the teachings of One Catholic and Apostolic Church - not just that you believe in jesus.

Hermione* wrote:

Catholicism is actually a form of Christianity. There are differences between the two besides a belief in God. But you're entitled to perceive it as you wish.

no i'm not - that is the point of catholicism, it has a certain set of teachings combined with the basic stuff of christianity.

i'm not having a go at your dad and i dont claim to be an eccumentical expert but the points i'm making seem to be pretty obvious and self expanitory to me.

HelterSkelter

thegills wrote:

.. not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who claim to be Catholics but don't even go to mass. ...

From the CSO site (http://www.cso.ie/census/Question13_000.htm)

What is your religion?

Question 13 provides information on the number of people of each religion or religious denomination. Taken in conjunction with information on country of birth, nationality and ethnicity information on religion will help complete the picture in relation to a changing society.

The religions listed have been chosen to cover the majority denominations. People are free to tick box 6 - Other and write in a description of their religion where it is not covered by one of the tick boxes 1 to 5. It is important to point out that the question does not refer to frequency of attendance at church.

[Jackass]

Why would you bother your hole lying? No co-operating for the sake of it?

There's always the dumb sh*ts whole sabvotage anything that's done to try and improve this country and as soon as they fill out a BS form, they'll turn to there mate and start giving out about this country...YOUR THE PROBLEM - NOT THE COUNTRY!

And yes, it's 100% confidential...why the fook would they individualy asses every person individually in the country?

I'd imagine they arrive in truckloads at a storage warehouse and are handed out bit by bit over the next 6 - 12 months to people inputting data and then shredding them...

It's statistical ffs, they don't really give a fu*k about "finding you out" (not now anyway) it's not about that...

Jamey

IIRC, there is a campaign going around the net (dunno if it's been posted here yet) for everyone to write their religion as 'Chuck Norris' on the census. As funny as this joke has been etc, I think that this just basically pisses on countries who don't have the freedom to practise what religion they want. Like I am presuming they're are many states under totalitarien rule who are intimidated into practising a religion, and odn't have the right to vote. This is just having a lugh like (literally), but very narrow minded, and stupid imo.

ferdi

like china./

[Jackass]

ferdi wrote:

people dont really get to choose what catholicsm means - i think it has to be one thing or the other or else whats the point in have a word for it?

I was baptised, had my communion and was confirmed into the catholic faith - that does not mean i am catholic.

unless you actually practice it, calling yourself catholic is total bull****.



again, this is not their definition to construct. in calling themselves catholic they must give some of their authoriy to the chuch - when renewing their baptismal vows catholics are meant to profess they: "believe in and openly profess the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting".

i just dont see the point in saying you are something when your not - as you said -"most Irish people don't go to mass every Sunday and they would consider themselves Catholic" - i would go further and say most irish people do not believe there is anything wrong with contraception, sex before marriage, homosexuality etc. but being catholic means following the teachings of One Catholic and Apostolic Church - not just that you believe in jesus.


no i'm not - that is the point of catholicism, it has a certain set of teachings combined with the basic stuff of christianity.

i'm not having a go at your dad and i dont claim to be an eccumentical expert but the points i'm making seem to be pretty obvious and self expanitory to me.

Listen flanders, you can be practicing or non-practicing catholic...that's the difference of going to mass etc...but your beliefs are your beliefs...that's why they are called beliefs...because if you believe the ways of a religion and try to live your life like a christian then you are a christian...if on top of that you believe in the catholic "version of events" then you are a catholic.

It's nothing to do with what you do it's to do with what you believe!

You go to mass every sunday? Here's your medal, but don't try to tell people how to interpret their religion ffs.

(im not religious btw)

Mossy Monk

why bother lying on a census? is it like giving 2 fingers to the government

BaZmO*

DubGuy wrote:

Listen flanders,

LOL.

Cheers HelterSkelter.

BuffyBot

theres been far more stupid things posted in this forum before

I'd say it's a close run thing.

Siogfinsceal

oh get bent theres always one of ye coming into posts in after hours and thinking the intelligence level is below you.

dudara

Could we please leave the religion debate out of this please?

DaSilva

ferdi wrote:

like china./

My parents are living in China at the moment, and my mother goes to Catholic mass every sunday.

Lying on the census is just evidence of how retardedly decadent Ireland is becomming.

zuma

So what we need is a communist dictatorship ?

arctic lemur

ferdi wrote:

no, sorry, i cant agree with you there - 'catholic' is just another word, meaningless unless you actually practice it properly.

(ps:i am not catholic)

catholic with a small'c' means baptised in the universal church. I'm C of I and in the creed we say we are part of one catholic and apostolic church.

As for lying on the census, how can we get a true picture of our country's changing needs and demography if people aren't honest. People who lie on it are immature and not amusing!!!!!!

BuffyBot

Siogfinsceal wrote:

oh get bent

Way ahead of you

theres always one of ye coming into posts in after hours and thinking the intelligence level is below you.

What? I've been cloned? Bad news for idiots then, isn't it.

Fraggle Rocks

There was a great letter in the Times about a week ago. It went like "The Census is apparently very important for the government in allocating resources and implementing plans. Could whoever has the old Census forms please send them to the government?"

I was amused.

ferdi

DubGuy wrote:

Listen flanders, you can be practicing or non-practicing catholic...that's the difference of going to mass etc...but your beliefs are your beliefs...that's why they are called beliefs...because if you believe the ways of a religion and try to live your life like a christian then you are a christian...if on top of that you believe in the catholic "version of events" then you are a catholic.

It's nothing to do with what you do it's to do with what you believe!

You go to mass every sunday? Here's your medal, but don't try to tell people how to interpret their religion ffs.

(im not religious btw)

yeah keep telling yourself that buddy, the catholic guilt in here is noxious./

ferdi

DaSilva wrote:

My parents are living in China at the moment, and my mother goes to Catholic mass every sunday.

well i suppose all the people protesting about lack of religious freedom in china are having a laugh? catholic does not = religion.

upmeath

Lying on the census is fairly stupid. It's the state's way of anticipating (and even preparing for, if the right people are in power) what way things are going to go for the population in the next couple of decades, what needs to be put in place to cope with demographic changes. Someone mentioned the baby boom in the 1970s and the housing crisis in the 1990s: the census wont tell them how much a barrel of oil will be in 15 or 20 years time, nor will it tell whether or not Intel or HP are going to be interested in setting up here in 30 years time. But it will tell you about the sort of society you're living in, and what sort of services you're going to need where. The current government have neglected the fact that the North East has seen huge population change in the last 10 years, that this might create the need for a decent health service and trains and motorways to the capital, seeing as how they've decided Meath should be a "dormer county", I'm starting on a bit of rant here and I'm sure the whole country has it's own little local rants, but this is why the census is so valuable to us.