seriously ...how much car and how much kit do you really need?

peasant

My first car was a Renault 4 with 1100 cc, 34 bhp and nothing in it but pedals and a steering wheel. The only things that could be considered "extras" were the headlamp levelers (a lever AT the headlamp) and the crank (complete with hole in the bumper) so that you could start the engine by hand

And funnily enough ...it did the job.

Which technological advantages since then do you think we could possibly do without in modern cars ?

Here's a few examples:

A/C ... this is Ireland ..so on three days a year you might want to open a window for a while.

traction control ...just go easy on the fast pedal ...if the wheels are spinning, you're doing something wrong

electric mirrors ...seriously ...do you ever use them? I set them once ...that's it. Heated mirrors on the other hand are a great safety feature

electric windows ...on the windows I can't reach ...yes ...on the drivers side it's just annoying ...I usually have to zoom up and down a few times until I have it where I want it ...winding would be quicker

electric seat adjustment ...yeah right ...play with it for half an hour and you're still not sitting right

Sat Nav ...get a map

parking sensors / rear view camera ...get a smaller / properly designed car that you can see out of

What do you think?

Anan1

peasant wrote:

What do you think?

Why not go the whole hog and just buy a horse?

IrishRover

haha pmsl, great posts both of you!

BrianD3

Well I'd agree on the air con in Ireland. I have used mine about 3 times in 3 years and then only in manual mode, not climate control mode.

However I like having a lot of the other stuff:
Tyre pressure sensors
Remote controls for the stereo + CD multichanger
Heated electric folding mirrors
Elec windows
Remote central locking
Trip computer
Front fogs (for use in FOG!)
Auto wipers

Stuff I don't have that I'd like to have:
Electric sunroof
Heated front windscreen

Stuff that I don't have and have little interest in:
Sat Nav
Bluetooth
Electric seats
Heated seats
Parking sensors (if I had a huge car I might reconsider)
Automatic handbrakes

Of course all car these days seem to have certain items as standard that were a big deal 25 years ago eg ABS, Power steering. I don't think I'd want to be without either of these.

Anan1

Funnily enough, the electric seats in my car are a feature that, for me, provide pleasure out of all proportion to their functionality. I hardly ever use the things, and yet I really enjoy having them. No idea why.

Dagon

Don't care about most of these things, except the ones that enhance the driving experience such as LSD. I'd prefer to spend money on a car that has superior engine components, power and good torque, as well as really good handling and advanced suspension components.

An old Celica with a good spec has all the features I'll ever need. If it gets you from a to b in style, and if it feels amazing to drive, that's the main thing

528i

Electric seats & mirrors are very useful when stored in memory (most will have this function) so that if someone else drives the car and messes with the settings, a simple button pressed and harmony is restored once again. Some cars will have these settings automatically programmed into the keys aswell.

The likes of traction ctrl. is essential in some cars for flooring it past R4's to see if you can blow them off the road like in that top-gear jumbo jet episode, or was a citroen :rolleyes:

All that other stuff (even if its never used) is reassuring to have so you can gloat to neighbours with poverty spec 316i's :cool:

peasant

528i wrote:

All that other stuff (even if its never used) is reassuring to have so you can gloat to neighbours with poverty spec 316i's :cool:

Yeah ...those damn Jonses' ...life would be so much easier if they left the neighbourhood ...just can't keep up ...

Stephen

I'd like to keep my power steering, airbags and side impact beams and ABS, thanks. Electric windows are great for situations like at toll booths, you don't have to be going at the handle like a bodybuilder to get the window down to pay your toll without holding up traffic.
Electric sunroof is nice for a similar reason, no need to be fiddling with a stupid handle to open it. Sat nav would be nice to have for those times when i'm driving on unfamiliar roads.

Couldn't really care about air con in this climate, don't care for autoboxes and cruise control, and I can't imagine having any use for parking sensors unless I was to go mental and buy a ridiculously massive luxobarge.

colm_mcm

I don't get this.

If you want a car with very few features buy a base model....

blastman

I actually like having A/C as it clears the windows really quickly, especially when it's raining. Winding down the window on a hot day just lets in hot air as most of the time you're not moving anywhere quickly.

My car has folding mirrors which I think is a brilliant idea.

Having driven around Sydney with Satnav, I'd like to have that too. Great for unfamiliar surroundings.

commited

I drive a Mini. It's as basic a car as you could buy in 92 and it does the job wonderfully. I've driven loads of modern cars and they just dont have the same vavavoom.

I hate power steering & ABS. I do however think that all windows should have demisters built in like the rear window. I cant stand having fogged up windows, and no matter how much you play with the fan settings, the rears are near impossible to keep clear on a damp day.

Stephen

Why do you hate power steering?

Anan1

Stephen wrote:

Why do you hate power steering?

Because he drives a Mini.

commited

I've only started driving a Mini daily in the last few months. Was modern cars with power steering before then.

Power steering takes away feeling, control, creates bad habits (billy one hand driver) and is unnecessary on superminis and small cars (for most people).

I understand it on vans, trucks and massive saloons. My dad used to have a 405 with no power steering. At the age of 10 I could deal with the steering for parking etc so I dont see what the big issue is.

Bam Bam

Have to say I'm usless at finding my own way around dublin city so for me a GPS in the car is essential

The one thing I don't see as a good investment are alloys.

For the most part thats €1200 that could be better spent, Like getting an all leather interior

elexes

peasant wrote:

A/C ... this is Ireland ..so on three days a year you might want to open a window for a while.

traction control ...just go easy on the fast pedal ...if the wheels are spinning, you're doing something wrong

electric mirrors ...seriously ...do you ever use them? I set them once ...that's it. Heated mirrors on the other hand are a great safety feature

electric windows ...on the windows I can't reach ...yes ...on the drivers side it's just annoying ...I usually have to zoom up and down a few times until I have it where I want it ...winding would be quicker

electric seat adjustment ...yeah right ...play with it for half an hour and you're still not sitting right

Sat Nav ...get a map

parking sensors / rear view camera ...get a smaller / properly designed car that you can see out of

What do you think?

well i find irish summers very hot so i do use ac

traction controle is not just about going to fast and spinning the wheels

the electric mirrors thing i think is a must im not sure how long ur arms are but i cant reach to the other side of my car to adjust the mirror into place properly

electric windows are another thing i think is needed

the seat thing well never had the experience myself so ill pass on that one

as for sat nav i have to say its one of the best features that cars can now come with . i dono about urself but when i was staring at road maps in the uk ( where in most cases i needed to use 2 different maps ) it can get very confusing . with the sat nav i find it much easier to not get lost for 2 hrs

as for parking sensors ive never backed into anything or anyone to date but id like to know when im within 2 inches of something

alias no.9

peasant wrote:

My first car was a Renault 4 with 1100 cc, 34 bhp and nothing in it but pedals and a steering wheel. The only things that could be considered "extras" were the headlamp levelers (a lever AT the headlamp) and the crank (complete with hole in the bumper) so that you could start the engine by hand

And funnily enough ...it did the job.

Which technological advantages since then do you think we could possibly do without in modern cars ?

Here's a few examples:

A/C ... this is Ireland ..so on three days a year you might want to open a window for a while.

My car doesn't have a/c but I have driven cars which do. It demists all windows in seconds, a very valuable function in ireland. Also, even though the irish summers aren't that hot, there is a greenhouse effect in cars with the cabin getting quite hot when the glass is exposed to direct sunlight, even at this time of year.

peasant wrote:

traction control ...just go easy on the fast pedal ...if the wheels are spinning, you're doing something wrong

Unless you're trying to put 150bhp + through the front wheels, I'd agree with you. My car has >140bhp, no traction control, and I have no problems making it behave. Maybe it's just for the idiots who have never been able to understand that you take off quicker if you don't spin the wheel

peasant wrote:

electric mirrors ...seriously ...do you ever use them? I set them once ...that's it. Heated mirrors on the other hand are a great safety feature

There was a thread on here recently about how door mirrors have got much smaller, the example quoted was a 1991 fiesta and how big and useful the mirrors are. I had a 1990 fiesta and have to agree, they were it's one redeaming feature. The change to smaller mirrors was driven by aerodynamics, to reduce drag which reduces fuel consumption and noise. The size is just about adequate for seeing whats behind you when you're on the move. Useless for parking, especially the n/s mirror. That's where electric mirrors come into their own, allowing quick and easy adjustment, making the mirrors useful again.

peasant wrote:

electric windows ...on the windows I can't reach ...yes ...on the drivers side it's just annoying ...I usually have to zoom up and down a few times until I have it where I want it ...winding would be quicker

I have to swipe through security gates at work and home. One click of the button and the window goes all the way down, one click and it comes all the way back up. My last car had electric windows in the back, I miss them, there's significantly less of a gale through the car when on the move if you open both front and back windows at the same time.

peasant wrote:

electric seat adjustment ...yeah right ...play with it for half an hour and you're still not sitting right

Where multiple dirvers use the same car and the seat has a memory linked to their individual key, it's useful, otherwise it's bollix.

peasant wrote:

Sat Nav ...get a map

Agreed.

peasant wrote:

parking sensors / rear view camera ...get a smaller / properly designed car that you can see out of

Are you mad, chelsea tractors on the school run driven by soccer moms would take out trees, lampposts and all kinds of street furniture without these

peasant wrote:

What do you think?

I think you get the picture.

Big Nelly

commited wrote:

I've driven loads of modern cars and they just dont have the same vavavoom.

Your driving the wrong ones so......what modern day cars have you drove?

Features on my car I find handy:
Electric windows(front and back) as mentioned handy for toll booth and swiping in and out of work car park
Power Steering, dont have to have arms like he-man to turn the car when its stationary, also Passat so without power steering would be wrestling non stop to keep on road
Heated Mirrors: handy on cold morning
Climate control: handy again on cold morning, dont have to do 3 runs with water to clear windows
Cruise Control: handy for long motor journeys and you get better fuel econemy

Things I dont really use:
Heated seats: used once myself since I bought car and then every so often to confuse people when they sit in, funny to see the look on there face as there ass gets very hot
Traction Control: Little light is supposed to flash if it has to kick in, havent seen it yet. Turned it off one day and drove and no difference except stupid light on all the time telling you to turn it back on
Multi-function Steering wheel: still to used to turn radio station manually so hardly use, would have volume turned up and then remember that I can do on steering wheel
CD-player: have one, hardly use, just listen to crap on radio
On boards computer: has about 8 differnet menus on it, like telling me how many ml is left in tank:rolleyes: just leave it on the MPG all the time

There is other options on it but havent found them yet:D

ando

Bam Bam wrote:

The one thing I don't see as a good investment are alloys.

ah here, down with that sort of thing :rolleyes:

Eoin

Bam Bam wrote:

The one thing I don't see as a good investment are alloys.

For the most part thats €1200 that could be better spent, Like getting an all leather interior

ando wrote:

ah here, down with that sort of thing :rolleyes:

Agreed - if you want an investment, don't buy a car! At least alloys can be removed and sold seperately. Leather seats are supposed to be over-rated anyway - sticky in the summer and cold in the winter.

Of all the gadgets mentioned so far, I think the heated seats are the worst - absolutely horrible feeling, especially as some of them take ages to cool down again.

Picking up my new car next week, and it has (that the Alfa doesn't) cruise control, 6CD change, Automatic Stability Control, integrated phone thingy and aircon. Not pushed about the phone kit, as I don't like using a phone while driving, regardless of whether it is properly integrated or not.

Cruise control should be handy given that I am on the motorway daily. I am looking forward to the aircon - it does not have to be a hot day for it to be useful - it will come in handy during any typical muggy day in Ireland. I would prefer to have a sunroof too, and be given the choice.

Wouldn't be pushed about SatNav at all, but only because the mapping over here is very bad, and that we don't have proper postcodes yet.

commited wrote:

Power steering <...> is unnecessary on superminis and small cars (for most people).

I don't agree at all - you don't need them in Minis because they are exceptional cars to drive. Try driving a Polo or fiesta without Power Steering - they are very hard work.

unkel

My car is nearly 10 years old and has most of the stuff mentioned in above posts. I enjoy watching the RTE 6.01 news while stuck in traffic on my way home in the evening

peasant wrote:

My first car was a Renault 4 with 1100 cc, 34 bhp and nothing in it but pedals and a steering wheel

One of the first cars I've driven too. You forgot to mention the gearknob in the dash

peasant wrote:

And funnily enough ...it did the job

It did, and it had to. I've driven several cars like that across Europe in hot summer holidays and they were mostly grand. Then again, don't forget we were a lot younger and more importantly, there just weren't any modern safety or other features back then

alias no.9 wrote:

My car doesn't have a/c but I have driven cars which do. It demists all windows in seconds, a very valuable function in ireland. Also, even though the irish summers aren't that hot, there is a greenhouse effect in cars with the cabin getting quite hot when the glass is exposed to direct sunlight, even at this time of year

Agree. I don't use the a/c much but find it useful for demisting and for cruising at speed where opening a window would be noisy

peasant

Don't get me wrong ...I likes my gadgets too. As far as "wanting" goes, I'll have everything AND the kitchen sink.

But consider this ...in the late seventies / early eighties something like an Opel Ascona weighed in at around 800 - 900 kg and with a 90 bhp engine you could get really sprightly performance out of it.

These days even a fiat panda comes in at close to a tonne.

Ok ... a lot of this weight gain has to do with increased safety and strengthened structure ...but a fair amount of it also is gadgetry.

The end result is, that even a supermini needs close to 100 bhp these days to move with some urgency and your standard family car comes in at 120 - 150 bhp.

On the bottom line, due to hauling all these extras around, modern cars are not one bit more fuel efficient (in mpg per mile travelled) than they were 20 - 30 years ago, even though there were massive developments in technology.

Actually they are worse ...my Renault 4 would run on 6.5 liters of 91 octane fuel per 100 km ...I'm yet to find a modern (petrol) car with the same amount of usable space that does the same (in real life ...not just on paper)

Now consider where oil prices are going ...

Any attempts by the car industry so far to produce frugal cars have been poorly accepted, because the market just demands a lot of goodies. (unless its a beemer ...as along as the badge is on that, people will buy it:D ).

And by frugal I don't mean a standard car with nothing in it, but a car that is actually designed to be economical.

Big Nelly

peasant wrote:

Ok ... a lot of this weight gain has to do with increased safety and strengthened structure ...but a fair amount of it also is gadgetry.

Alot of the gadgets etc put little or no weight into the car, I think you will find a car with a high NCAP rating will weight alot, this is because of the reinforced steel etc to protect the person within the car and then with the addition of all the airbags as well. In my passat if you did crash it would take a day to get out with all the air bags coming at you from every angle. This is where the extra weight comes from. You cannot talk about weight of old cars and new cars because in old cars if you crashed well it was more or less saying good luck to you!!!

Traction control is also been made to be put onto car as standard in Europe isnt it? thought I heard something on Top Gear in reference to that

cargrouch

eoin_s wrote:

Of all the gadgets mentioned so far, I think the heated seats are the worst - absolutely horrible feeling, especially as some of them take ages to cool down again.

Described by a friend of mine as a kind of unsettling feeling that you may have wee'd yourself. Dunno if this is a common experience for the guy or not!

Big Nelly

cargrouch wrote:

Described by a friend of mine as a kind of unsettling feeling that you may have wee'd yourself. Dunno if this is a common experience for the guy or not!

have to admit never felt like that in the Passat, as I said only used once and it was frezzin outside. Only had on for a min or two and it was ok, turned off then and use the C/C.

Think your mate might have a bladder problem.

Eoin

cargrouch wrote:

Described by a friend of mine as a kind of unsettling feeling that you may have wee'd yourself. Dunno if this is a common experience for the guy or not!

Combine heated seats with leather upholstery and it just gets worse!

cargrouch

Yes, I think he was talking specifically about leather heated seats. But I think there must be some kind of history there!

commited

Big Nelly wrote:

Your driving the wrong ones so......what modern day cars have you drove?

I wont name them all, but from cars that are meant to be great to drive - I've driven the Focus and Fiesta - they werent bad, but didnt have the same fun factor as older cars. Rover 600 was also quite good.
I've driven a Honda Jazz extensively and these are considered fun to drive, but all it equated to me was masses of understeer and crap steering.

Power Steering, dont have to have arms like he-man to turn the car when its stationary, also Passat so without power steering would be wrestling non stop to keep on road

You should never be turning your wheels when stationary. With the car moving, the wheels are surprisingly easy to turn on any car.

eoin_s wrote:

I don't agree at all - you don't need them in Minis because they are exceptional cars to drive. Try driving a Polo or fiesta without Power Steering - they are very hard work.

As I said - I could drive a 405 without Power Steering with no bother, as could my mother.
I've driven a golf and fiesta with no power steering - no bother at all. I mean, back in the 80s and early 90s people drove fine without power steering, but suddenly no power steering = impossibly heavy.

The city button in the Punto is pointless also (unless their is a disability to be accounted for) - when I was learning how to drive, my instructor would always press it, and I'd flick it off - eventually he got the message. It's just unnecessary.

At the end of the day, we all have our own opinions - I dont like power steering (the power steering you find in everyday cars - not sportscars).

Big Nelly

commited wrote:

I wont name them all, but from cars that are meant to be great to drive - I've driven the Focus and Fiesta - they werent bad, but didnt have the same fun factor as older cars. Rover 600 was also quite good.
I've driven a Honda Jazz extensively and these are considered fun to drive, but all it equated to me was masses of understeer and crap steering.).

A Focus and a Fiesta? your having a laugh. As said on here before I found the Focus one of the most borning cars in the World to drive. THe Fiesta is one of the worst cars on the road in my mind. I would burn everyone of them if I had my way. Hate the things. Then a ROver and a Honda Jazz????? pick some decent cars then make a proper observation

commited wrote:

You should never be turning your wheels when stationary. With the car moving, the wheels are surprisingly easy to turn on any car.).

Try parking a car without moving the wheel while stationary? its impossible

commited

Big Nelly wrote:

A Focus and a Fiesta? your having a laugh. As said on here before I found the Focus one of the most borning cars in the World to drive. THe Fiesta is one of the worst cars on the road in my mind. I would burn everyone of them if I had my way. Hate the things. Then a ROver and a Honda Jazz????? pick some decent cars then make a proper observation

Well done on finding the Fiesta crap and Focus "borning" to drive. It is pretty common opinion that the Focus is good to drive, that is why I chose it as a benchmark to mention here. I hardly think it is fair to put down anyones opinions/observations - this is hardly going to change the world, so stop taking things so seriously.

What do you suggest? If you suggest quick or expensive cars, that's missing the point.

I'm hoping to take a spin in a new Mini this weekend, so maybe that will change my mind as I've never heard anyone call that boring.

Out of interest - have you ever driven a Rover 600? Pretty much a Honda Accord underneath.

Try parking a car without moving the wheel while stationary? its impossible

Not impossible. Convenient to dry steer, thus everyone does it.

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

Why not go the whole hog and just buy a horse?

I suppose you boil your water on the hob & watch B&W TV with no remote control and no cable.:p

I'm actually surprised you actually use the internet.....:rolleyes:

go back to your cave;)

Lex Luthor

eoin_s wrote:

Of all the gadgets mentioned so far, I think the heated seats are the worst - absolutely horrible feeling, especially as some of them take ages to cool down again..

Thats why they are now putting cooling fans in the seats aswell.....:rolleyes:

eoin_s wrote:

Picking up my new car next week, and it has (that the Alfa doesn't) cruise control, 6CD change, Automatic Stability Control, integrated phone thingy and aircon. Not pushed about the phone kit, as I don't like using a phone while driving, regardless of whether it is properly integrated or not.

What you get? Did you sell the Alfa?

highdef

Have to say that in the depths of winter, I get up in the morning, go out to the car, turn it on, set the temp on the CC and switch the heater on the seat. Go back in and have bite to eat. Come back out 5 minutes later in a t-shirt (even if it's below feezing outside) and climb into a lovely warm car with a nice hot leather armchair. Fan Bloody Tastsic!!!!

I also think Air con is brilliant. I leave it to do it's own thing. Air con only comes on if it gets too warm in the cabin so that the incoming air cannot cool the car down. Although in the damp winter months, I often switch it on manually to clear the windscreen and all the windows in a matter of seconds.

I also dont think I'll be able to drive a "stick-shift" car again

Traction control is another great safety feature, for me anyway - Car is RWD so if for example, I am coming from a side street onto a main street and it's raining and thr traffic is heavy, I can quite safely put the foot to the floor and pull out without the back end trying to become the front end :eek: In the same way that you can plant your foot on the brake with ABS and also turn at the same time instead of going in a straight line with the wheels locked up.

Another feature I haven't mentioned but which I more or less take for granted now is an auto dimming rear view mirrow - fantastic when driving at night. I could be on a back road with no street lights and the guy behind me could have his full beams on and it wouldn't bother me all that much.

Big Balls

Most cars with traction control have it for a reason and it doesn't just "stop the wheels spinning".

You've clearly never driven a powerful 1990s BMW.

Heated leather seats feel fantastic I think.

peasant

I've driven all sorts of things and I do know what you're talking about ...

But the question was ...how much car/gimmicks do you really need?

Surely you don't NEED a car that has so much power that it can't even put it onto the road without electronic help?

Wanting one is a different matter ..

But I'd go so far as to say that car designers have become lazy. Instead of fine tuning geometry and setup to make a really good handling car, they just plonk in a big, strong engine at one end, ever wider tyres at the other and everything inbetween gets managed, controlled, regulated and measured every millisecond to make it driveable at all ....


Oh ...and this one ...

Traction control is another great safety feature, for me anyway - Car is RWD so if for example, I am coming from a side street onto a main street and it's raining and thr traffic is heavy, I can quite safely put the foot to the floor and pull out without the back end trying to become the front end In the same way that you can plant your foot on the brake with ABS and also turn at the same time instead of going in a straight line with the wheels locked up.

no offence ...but what about learning how to drive properly instead of relying on the car to do it for you?

KeRbDoG

Big Nelly wrote:

Try parking a car without moving the wheel while stationary? its impossible

Every drive a Sports-pack Mini (old style) on wide alloys? No power steering to speak of. Its not impossible at all, just a bit of work.
I can understand why some girls wouldn't like it but lads saying a car without power steering is impossible to move the wheel while stationary - tis a joke no?

Brings me back to my dad speaking about his days driving Buses in the UK/Ireland about 20-30 years ago. No power steering

highdef

Peasant, I've passed the test in the institute of advanced motorists so i can drive - I'm not perfect. Nobody is. What I'm trying to say that as my car is RWD and quite powerful, trying to accelerate from a stop on wet ground and also turn inevitably needs to at least one of the wheels spinning. The traction control simply drops the power and/or applies brakes to this wheel, or both if both are spinning. Yes, it is being lazy but yes, I can make the maneuvore a lot more safely and predictably which is the most important thing. I wont pull out in front of traffic if means cars on the main road have to brake. What I'm saying is in the above situation, with traction control off, I would have to be light footed with the throttle which will mean slower take off speed which means I have to allow a bigger gap in traffic before I attempt to pull out.

Squirrel

kerbdog wrote:

Every drive a Sports-pack Mini (old style) on wide alloys? No power steering to speak of. Its not impossible at all, just a bit of work.
I can understand why some girls wouldn't like it but lads saying a car without power steering is impossible to move the wheel while stationary - tis a joke no?

Brings me back to my dad speaking about his days driving Buses in the UK/Ireland about 20-30 years ago. No power steering

I think Big Nelly meant that you do have to turn the steering wheel while stationary to park, and that it would be impossible to park if you didn't turn the steering wheel while stationary.

The Micra I'm learning in doesn't have power steering, it's no hassle for me, but for my mam coming from Sonata with power steering she finds it difficult

peasant

highdef
Nothing personal ...and I trust you that you can drive... but your argument just underlines a point that has been made elsewhere on this forum before.

Add a safety feature to a car, and people will automatically calculate it into their judgment of any given situation and drive more forcefully because they know (or assume) that the gimmicks will take care of it.

So, any new safety feature is soon negated by increasingly bad driving habits ...or the other way round ...one shouldn't NEED traction control, one should be able to drive accordingly as if it wasn't there and it should only ever come on to override human error.

But car designers are actually designing cars these days that can only be driven safely if and when the traction control is on ....thats madness.

It should be a last resort safety measure, not a driving aid. The same goes for ABS, EBD, EBS and whatever else there is. A good driver should not need all these thing and neither should a well designed car. Unfortunately we're all pretty bad drivers, driving badly designed cars, so these gimmicks are becoming a must.

In the three years that I have driven a car with ABS, it only needed to operate once ...and that was because I seriously misjudged a narrow bend with a puddle in it. Yes, I was grateful the ABS was there and I certainly needed it then ...but if the ABS comes on on a daily basis, that driver shouldn't be on the road at all.

commited

Squirrel wrote:

I think Big Nelly meant that you do have to turn the steering wheel while stationary to park, and that it would be impossible to park if you didn't turn the steering wheel while stationary.

No it wouldnt be though. A reverse parallel park should be a fluid movement without coming completely to a halt (except to change direction). Before you have finished reversing you turn the steering wheel to the opposite lock (at low speed but still moving). Then you move forward and straighten up.

Squirrel

Hypothertical situation:

You drive into a space at the end of a queue parked on the side of a road, say at a race or some such event. Your wheels are turned into the kerb if it's on a hill, or left dead ahead on flat. A car parks behind you and you're in between 2 cars when leaving. Chances are you won't drive straight either into one of the cars or the kerb, you'll turn the steering wheel while stationary. It happens all the time at athletics meets

peasant

I once had to drive an old army truck (built in 1956) without any mechanical aids. While parking we got so boxed in that I HAD to turn the steering wheel while stationary. It took two of us to turn the wheel ..couldn't do it on my own (and I'm no bantam weight:D ).

Having said that ...once you had the slightest bit of movement(forward or backward), turning the wheel was no problem.

(and the non-syncromesh gearbox was fun as well)

Matt Simis

peasant wrote:

highdef

It should be a last resort safety measure, not a driving aid. The same goes for ABS, EBD, EBS and whatever else there is. A good driver should not need all these thing and neither should a well designed car. Unfortunately we're all pretty bad drivers, driving badly designed cars, so these gimmicks are becoming a must.

So your problem really isnt what you class as "gimmicks", its that people are driving cars like ho-hum tools and not spending time learning a "craft"...?

Most people dont care about becoming a good driver, maybe they are good at other things, maybe they are just idiots. I feel safer that those idiots are protected (/protected from them) with ABS, Traction Control, Windows that shut themselves etc myself.

Oh, I do like GPS, Heated Seats, Electric Windows, Mirrors and Doors, ABS, PS etc etc. If cars were invented in the age of computing they would have all this crap in from the get go and you would have to complain bout something else and you know it!


Matt

peasant

Matt Simis wrote:

So your problem really isnt ...

Matt

No "problem" here ...I was just wondering out loud. Must be my age and the fact that I have actually managed to drive zero gimmick cars, liked it and lived to tell the tale

Lex Luthor

I love my leather seats in my Alfa. Wouldn't buy a car without them in future.

Electric mirrors over rated but heated not.
Electric windows & central locking the 2 most essentials along with PS & ABS.
Traction control essential on RWD cars.
Brake pad wear sensors also a good idea.
Sunroof, take it or leave it.

colm_mcm

I shudder to think where we'd be without silicone-damped grab handles or slush moulded dashboard plastics.....

Eoin

Lex Luthor wrote:

Thats why they are now putting cooling fans in the seats aswell.....:rolleyes:

You're kidding - that's going a bit far!

Lex Luthor wrote:

What you get? Did you sell the Alfa?

Trading it in next week against a BMW 320D. Will be sorry to see it go.

highdef wrote:

Have to say that in the depths of winter, I get up in the morning, go out to the car, turn it on, set the temp on the CC and switch the heater on the seat. Go back in and have bite to eat. Come back out 5 minutes later in a t-shirt (even if it's below feezing outside) and climb into a lovely warm car with a nice hot leather armchair. Fan Bloody Tastsic!!!!

I'd prefer the opposite - i.e. getting into a nice cool car on a hot day.

Max_Damage

My Micra has nothing in it, no electric windows, no electric mirrors, no power steering, no airbags, no A/C, no nothing, and yet, that's the way I like it. Less things to go wrong in my opinion.

Someone here said 'try driving a Polo or Fiesta without power steering is hard work'. Bollocks to that, my car doesn't have P/S, and yet the steering is as light as a feather,

Cars are just getting far to gimikie in my opinion, no one needs GPS or reverse sensor things, electric this, that and the other, and no-one at all needs a glove box with A/C (Nissan Note anyone?)

The only car that really comes with 'nothing' as a standard feature is the Dacia Logan, which unfortantly isn't sold here.

Eoin

Max_Damage wrote:

My Micra has nothing in it, no electric windows, no electric mirrors, no power steering, no airbags, no A/C, no nothing, and yet, that's the way I like it. Less things to go wrong in my opinion.

Someone here said 'try driving a Polo or Fiesta without power steering is hard work'. Bollocks to that, my car doesn't have P/S, and yet the steering is as light as a feather,

Just because the micra doesn't need power steering doesn't mean that the others don't. The micra is a very different car to drive than the other two.

Max_Damage

Well, I've also driven a Fiesta ('88) without P/S, no problem at all, just like my Micra.