11 dead and counting...

mike65

So much for the latest bank holliday crackdown....was there a bank holliday crackdown? I hav'nt seen a cop since Thursday.

Mike.

Dub13

It must be one of the worst weekends on the roads in a long time.

On a side note,I was thinking the other day have we ever had a weekend with no deaths any weekend not just long ones.

mike65

Yes, indeed there was a long weekend in the last year when no-one died just can't remember which one. Clearly a fluke.

Mike.

deRanged

I've just passed two unmarked cars in Cork, one by Midleton, one between Carrigtwohill and Glounthaune. Those are the only cops I've seen all weekend.

Dub13

They need to have a crack down on National roads,I was up in Donegal a couple of weekends ago and the driving by a lot of motorist's is absolutely shocking.We don't need new laws the laws are there already,we need the political will for zero tolerance on the roads.Its the only thing that will work IMO.

Danno

Problem on the roads is people not keeping to the speed limits. One asshole decides to do 40-45mph holding up lines and lines of traffic. Another asshole wants to do 75-80mph decides to take chances. The speed limit is 62mph. stick to it. The cops should dish out points and or fines for slow drivers also.

Also, to accomodate lorrys (who should all be doing 52mph) councils should build special overtaking zones for cars to pass lorrys.

skibum

Danno wrote:

Problem on the roads is people not keeping to the speed limits. One asshole decides to do 40-45mph holding up lines and lines of traffic. Another asshole wants to do 75-80mph decides to take chances. The speed limit is 62mph. stick to it. The cops should dish out points and or fines for slow drivers also.

Also, to accomodate lorrys (who should all be doing 52mph) councils should build special overtaking zones for cars to pass lorrys.

Or the assholes who sit on the speed limit on the right hand lane, know you are behind them and won't move over to the left when safe to do so....

Or the assholes who dive into the 3 car lengths that you leave between you and the car ahead....

Or the assholes who are so close to your bumper that you can't see their head lights, doing their nut to pass you, when the traffic ahead of you and to your left is conjested... what the f*ck are trying to acheive, I wouldn't mind if the road ahead was clear of traffic and I was holding them up like the first asshole I mentioned......

Supercell

Stopped in Terenure yesterday, just checking tax and insurance though, hardly an accidant blackspot!!

pH

The Traffic Division is far more interested in getting people doing 7kph over ludicrous 80kph speed limits on safe bits of dual carriageway. Just let me mention at this point that I have no points

How many of our road deaths have happened during daylight hours on dual-carriageways?

If we wanted to we could cut road deaths - safer roads, limit *all* cars to sensible speeds, enforce our L-driver regulatations, bring in a restricted category for young drivers.

We also need to report road deaths properly. This may seem calous but we need to split the figures into those killed on our roads (by others) and those who kill themselves on our road. People who do stupid things and kill themselves - unfortunate and sad - but not a problem for the rest of us, those with vehicles and behaviours that kill and maim others should be the number one priority.

mike65

The majority of deaths appear to be between dusk and dawn on single carrigeway roads outside towns/cities and clustered around the weekends.

Not hard to police then.

Mike.

base2

Nothing shocking about those figures. We've a lot of motorists in this country. Driving can be a dangerous activity and thats reflected by the 400 or so people that are killed on our roads a year. That figure isnt far off other nations population adjusted road death figures.

CiaranC

Arent deaths on the roads inevitable, due to the nature of hurtling around in heavy metal conveyances with rubber wheels on tarmac/concrete? Can anyone point to somewhere they have eliminated them, or reduced them to a negligable level?

I mean, what do people expect from legislation/ law enforcement? Miracles?

A Dub in Glasgo

Basic competence testing would be a start then maybe move onto basic law enforcement

Dub13

CiaranC wrote:

Arent deaths on the roads inevitable, due to the nature of hurtling around in heavy metal conveyances with rubber wheels on tarmac/concrete? Can anyone point to somewhere they have eliminated them, or reduced them to a negligable level?

I mean, what do people expect from legislation/ law enforcement? Miracles?

Nobody is saying you can cut the number of deaths to zero,but IMo you could come close to cutting them in half.We don't expect miracles but if we can save a few lives it would be worth it.

BrianD3

I was out driving on Saturday and Sunday night between the hours of about 10 and 2, don't normally do this and it really opened my eyes as to why there are so many deaths on weekend nights. There were not many cars on the road but I witnessed a disproportionate amount of shockingly bad and dangerous driving. Was actually nervous by the time I got home. Especially since some middle aged bitch (probably pissed or drugged) nearly took me out as I was negotiating a roundabout. Just didn't slow down at all and sailed straight through.

Also, for all the fatal crashes that we hear about happening on weekend nights there are probably hundreds of others where nobody died but where there were injuries or property damage. I'm just thinking about when I drive to work on a monday morning very often there are holes in ditches and cars lying in fields that weren't there the friday before :rolleyes:

Where are the cops? I saw plenty of checkpoints this weekend but none after about 7 o clock in the evening. Are the cops afraid of the dark or something? In fairness to them they're probably overstretched on weekend nights eg due to having to deal with the drunken morons fighting on the street. As Travis Bickle might say, "all the animals come out at night"

drdre

mike65 wrote:

So much for the latest bank holliday crackdown....was there a bank holliday crackdown? I hav'nt seen a cop since Thursday.

Mike.

you are right i only seen 1 cop car over te week end and thats it.no check points what so ever.last year i seen a few check points but not even 1 this year.this is just a disgraise and they think they can improve our roads with the just the point system.well i can i can is good luck but it aint going to work

ntlbell

Danno wrote:

Problem on the roads is people not keeping to the speed limits. One asshole decides to do 40-45mph holding up lines and lines of traffic. Another asshole wants to do 75-80mph decides to take chances. The speed limit is 62mph. stick to it. The cops should dish out points and or fines for slow drivers also.

Also, to accomodate lorrys (who should all be doing 52mph) councils should build special overtaking zones for cars to pass lorrys.

Your calling people asshole's for driving at 40-45mph? this is idiotic.

AFAIK points are handed out for dangerous driving, if you're driving *too* slow as in so slow it's _dangerous_ you can get points. e.g. doing 20 on the M50

There's a reason we have a 'fast lane' as people call it, this is not so you can sit in it doing 140 it's for over taking and over taking _only_ the people doing 40-45 which is perfectly fine.

I would prefer a 19yr old with little expirience to be driving at 45 and be comfortable in the car then trying to show off and doing speeds he's not comfortable with.

Some of the biggest problems IMO are provisinal drivers, how this works here needs to changed.

You fail your test a qualified tester decides you cannot drive fails you, you get into your car and can continue to drive? this is absoloutley bizarre and has to change.

I honestly can't remember the last time I seen a guarda checkpoint.

There should be a huge guarda presence on the roads at night time all over the country and especially on weekends

Drink drivers should be in constant fear the chances are they will be stopped they will see a checkpoint rather than the other way around.

Why have pubs now got car parks that can fit over 100 cars? why are these nearly always full at 11pm, yet it's hard to find anyone in the pub drinking a coke or an orange?

*boggle*

mike65

The cops should be parked outside the pub with the breathaliser kit at the ready from early on so patrons can see whats comming.

You can imagine the squealing from vitners if that happened.

Mike.

ntlbell

mike65 wrote:

The cops should be parked outside the pub with the breathaliser kit at the ready from early on so patrons can see whats comming.

You can imagine the squealing from vitners if that happened.

Mike.

I was actually trying to think of a way this could work a few years ago.

It's excsesive but a great idea if it could be done right.

pH

And in every other European country - Learner means learner. You drive accompanied (for a few weeks/months) until you pass the test.

Over here Learner means anyone driving who can't be arsed or isn't capable of doing a driving test. I've never heard of the 'you must be accompanied' rule ever being enforced by the gardai.

drdre

mike65 wrote:

The cops should be parked outside the pub with the breathaliser kit at the ready from early on so patrons can see whats comming.

You can imagine the squealing from vitners if that happened.

Mike.

yes mike they should hire more youge garda for this purpose as it will reduce drink driving alot.and it will teach people a lesson.

hope fully the new law coming in will reduce road death.

Danno

ntlbell wrote:

Your calling people asshole's for driving at 40-45mph? this is idiotic.

Explain idiotic. Try travelling along the N8 between Portlaoise and Abbeyleix behind some asshole doing 40 or 45 surveying every sheep and bullock in the fields as they go merrily along. No decent areas to safely overtake the gobsh!te...

ntlbell wrote:

There's a reason we have a 'fast lane' as people call it, this is not so you can sit in it doing 140 it's for over taking and over taking _only_ the people doing 40-45 which is perfectly fine.

Geez, lucky you! The other lane on my road has cars coming towards me :rolleyes:

ntlbell wrote:

I would prefer a 19yr old with little expirience to be driving at 45 and be comfortable in the car then trying to show off and doing speeds he's not comfortable with.

They should be taught to drive properly as close to the speed limits, not exceeding though as is safely possible. Also, the roads are not classrooms.

ntlbell

Danno wrote:

Explain idiotic. Try travelling along the N8 between Portlaoise and Abbeyleix behind some asshole doing 40 or 45 surveying every sheep and bullock in the fields as they go merrily along. No decent areas to safely overtake the gobsh!te...



Geez, lucky you! The other lane on my road has cars coming towards me :rolleyes:


They should be taught to drive properly as close to the speed limits, not exceeding though as is safely possible. Also, the roads are not classrooms.

www.dictionary.com for any words you found confusing.

If the speed limit is 120 on a motorway some people are not comfortable driving at that speed, you can't teach someone to feel safe at 120 they just don't like it like a 60yr old womam for example may not like it or be used to it.

The roads are not classrooms but where do you expect one to learn?

Anything else move out of the stix or contact a loacal TD about wideinging the roads?

Danno

Fair enough on motorways, but on National Primary single carrigeway routes it is a different story. Nobody should dictate to 20 cars behind them that 45mph is todays speed...

As for your comment about "the stix" - funny the amount od Dubs now living here in Laois.

caos

the reason why there are so many road deaths is beacuse of population.
there are twice as many road users to day as 10 years ago.......so more
deaths

ntlbell

Danno wrote:

Fair enough on motorways, but on National Primary single carrigeway routes it is a different story. Nobody should dictate to 20 cars behind them that 45mph is todays speed...

As for your comment about "the stix" - funny the amount od Dubs now living here in Laois.

We can't afford to buy anywhere else it's not for the quality of roads obviously

MT

Dub13 wrote:

They need to have a crack down on National roads,I was up in Donegal a couple of weekends ago and the driving by a lot of motorist's is absolutely shocking.

Tell me about it. We get a constant stream of drivers from Donegal going through Fermanagh and their standard of driving is often diabolical. Lots of overtaking on blind bends, attempting to overtake long lines of traffic and a total failure to heed signs warning of hidden dips. And that’s just on the open road. Their progress through Enniskillen – in no way a major town but one with quite a complex road layout in comparison to most of Donegal – is truly a sight to behold.

Firstly, the Donegal man clearly hasn’t a notion of how to use his indicator correctly. Especially at roundabouts. Having driven often in Donegal I’ve become accustomed to the fact that indicating at roundabouts up there is deemed criminally unfashionable – it seems people wouldn’t be caught dead doing it, er… well they might actually, literally that is. Then there’s the parking on roundabouts I’ve encountered in the likes of Letterkenny which really needs to be seen to be believed. However, once across the border the man from Donegal clearly feels the need to make an effort at indicating – endless tales of police brutality probably have that sort of effect. And this is where it all goes wrong.

Some indicate left when they’re going right at a roundabout, others leave exits still indicating that they’re continuing right. Most haven’t a clue about which lane to get into either while approaching or on the roundabout. Then there’s the tendency to indicate after initiating a manoeuvre – like when they’ve already begun overtaking. A particular favourite is the notion that once you’ve put on your indicator approaching a priority road at a T junction that you can pull out regardless of whether someone’s approaching. Another is the 'late indicator'. This is a particular breed of Donegal man that forgets to indicate when pulling out to overtake but attempts to make up for this by informing the overtaken driver that he’s about to remove their front bumper by indicating to pull back in again.

There’s also the running of red lights and of course to top it all the joys of parking, Donegal style. Double yellow lines seemingly mean nothing. The pavement is simply a raised extension of the parking bay – I mean pedestrians, what are they? Parallel parking usually translates into a position half-way out into the nearest traffic lane. Or if the space available is too short then simply stick her in nose first with the car’s boot obstructing the lane. And as for parking in the marked out bays in car parks, why use only one when you can take up the space of two.

Then on to mini-roundabouts… but you’ve probably got the picture by now. Time to get with the rest of the planet and stop allowing people who fail their driving test to continue on as if nothing had happened.:rolleyes:

Sizzler

mike65 wrote:

The cops should be parked outside the pub with the breathaliser kit at the ready from early on so patrons can see whats comming.

You can imagine the squealing from vitners if that happened.

Mike.

In years gone by I remember leaving the pub with my parents (erm I think they were drinking 7ups lol) but there used to be checkpoints down the road. Seems like as the years have gone on the less this is happened, then we have all this ****e about random breath testing?? I thought they could always do it !!!

Easy pickings.

I also agree with the poster who said they should have more visible checkpoints down the bogs. Lets face it, you dont hear of too many fatalities in greater dublin area each wkend, its predominantly in the arsehole of nowhere where someone is either locked or driving like an idiot or 3am in (insert random country location).

Talk about making the worst of the resource the coppers have...grrrr

Victor

/me prescribes sedatives for MT.

Alun

caos wrote:

the reason why there are so many road deaths is beacuse of population.
there are twice as many road users to day as 10 years ago.......so more
deaths

Yeah, right, so that would explain the 628 road deaths in 1978 now would it?

Take a look at http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/rtastats_longterm.html and plot a graph or two.

Victor

caos wrote:

there are twice as many road users to day as 10 years ago.......so more deaths

If the population has gone from 3.6m in 1991 to 4.1m in 2005, how is that a doubling of road users.

Yes there are more cars, but that doesn't make road deaths any more acceptable.

Danno

Victor, there are ten times more people on the road now than there were ten years ago.

Interesting to see that deaths have remained rather static...

Why have insurance costs not come down???

Victor

Danno wrote:

Victor, there are ten times more people on the road now than there were ten years ago.

Linky?

Danno wrote:

Why have insurance costs not come down???

They have changed, but realise that insurance claims are now more expensive (legal fees aside)

pH

registered vehicles on Ireland's roads:

1993 - 1,151,000
2005 - 1,850,000

That's a 61% increase in *roughly* 10 years - nearer to 1/2 as many again than doubling and certainly nothing like 10 times.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2003/1126/1069806376637.html

Cormic

Saw lots of cops over the weekend. They were all sitting on the side of the dual carriageway between Cabinteeley and Loughlinstown shooting fish in a barrel. Why this new stretch of road is 60kph is beyond me.

pleba

ok. ignoring the fact that we cant get through the current backlog of driving tests (and havent been able to for years), lets presume the following suggestion would be under ideal conditions......

.....we are currently forced to have our cars undergo an NCT after 4 years and then every two years after that. This is my opinion is ludicrous as the majority of NCT 'failures' are for minor conditons and not because the car is dangerous to drive. Whilst I don't have any problem with the NCT I would much rather see these resources/money put to better use and ensure that every driver is forced to do a retest every 4 years.

I for one would have no problem doing a regular driving test if it meant that our roads were safer. Maybe a driver who fails could then be put off the road until they took a retest and passed. Its ridiculous that we allow people who fail their test to get straight back into their car and drive off.

Alun

pleba wrote:

.....we are currently forced to have our cars undergo an NCT after 4 years and then every two years after that. This is my opinion is ludicrous as the majority of NCT 'failures' are for minor conditons and not because the car is dangerous to drive.

From the NCT website

Top Three Failure Items:

Year 2003:
the main failure items were Bodywork, Headlight Aim and Registration Plates

Year 2002:
the main failure items were Brakes, Front Suspension and Bodywork (in pre 92 vehicles)

Year 2001:
the main failure items were Brakes, Front Suspension and Emissions.

In the year 2000:
43,000 pre 92 cars (1 in 6) were identified as having defective brakes.
34,000 pre 92 cars (1 in 8) were over the emissions limit set by the European Union.
32,000 pre 92 cars (1 in 9) had defective steering.

It does seem to be getting better, in as much as the seriousness of the faults causing the majority of fails is declining, but I'm sure that along with the questionable failures there are still plenty of potentially lethal cars being caught too. Take the 75,000 cars with defective brakes and/or steering in 2000, as an example ... well worth the money if you ask me. Anyway, the NCT test is a test of roadworthiness, where roadworthiness is, amongst other things, defined by the law surrounding cars and their use on the roads, and not exclusively whether a car is dangerous to drive or not, hence the silly number plate thing. If you want to challenge that, argue with the gaelgoirs who insisted it be put there, not the NCT testers who are merely doing their job properly.

pleba

maybe i shouldnt havce mentioned the NCT in my previous post. The main point I wanted to get across was that I think we should all do a driving test every 4 years. In my opinion there are more dangerous drivers on the roads than there are dangerous cars.

Rovi

I've been banging on for years that it should be necessary to pass the test in order to renew your licence, or get it back after a ban.
I reckon that this single thing would do more for road safety in this country than all the other finger wagging and empty threatening put together.

It would require an army of testers though, so I know it'll never happen :mad:

HelterSkelter

MT, it's the same in Dublin, the majority of people have no idea how to use roundabouts or how to indicate.

HelterSkelter

Rovi wrote:

I've been banging on for years that it should be necessary to pass the test in order to renew your licence, or get it back after a ban.
I reckon that this single thing would do more for road safety in this country than all the other finger wagging and empty threatening put together.

It would require an army of testers though, so I know it'll never happen :mad:

Yup I agree with you. How come we have to get our car tested every two years but we never have to have our driving skills re-tested?

mike65

Indeed I've often said it, imagine the mayhem if we did need to resit every 5 years say? Even if the system could cope and patienly it would'nt for the forseeble future, you'd have a whole new industry of "driving grinds".

Mike.

Dub13

We kill 12 people per 100,000 of our population compared to the some other European country's who kill 6 people per 100,000.So we have loads of room for improvement.

Rovi

mike65 wrote:

Indeed I've often said it, imagine the mayhem if we did need to resit every 5 years say? Even if the system could cope and patienly it would'nt for the forseeble future, you'd have a whole new industry of "driving grinds".

Which is exactly why I think it'd be a 'Good Thing'. If everyone had to do a refresher course on the rules of the road and good driving practice every so often, perhaps some of it might stick.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I know, it'll never happen.

galah

That's not enough, I think - we need a proper driver education system, abolish the L-driver system, make everyone take at least 20 driving lessons AND theory lessons by an authorized instructor, pass a test, and THEN let people drive on their own. You need to start at the base...

On top of that, I think resitting a test (or at least a compulory driving assessment) every 5 years or so would be great - for all the drivers who've been on the road for ages and still don't know where their indicator is or that lights need to be maintained (it seems that having only one working brake light/headlight is the norm these days...), and just to keep up to date...(I would gladly do this if it improves road safety...)

And you need to install respect in people again - respect for others, respect for the road, their car and their ability - and increase the presence of guards to enforce it. People here drive badly because they can...Noone there to check, and the fines you get if you are caught are a joke...

I could rant on forever....

r3nu4l

I agree that the cops should be targetting country roads late at night during the weekends and not sitting on the N4 or Stillorgan dual carriageways at three in the afternoon with their little radar guns!

I wonder if the CSO have any stats on whether those involved in fatal accidents were provisional or full license holders? I would bet there are far more fully licensed drivers responsible for deaths on Irish roads than provisional drivers.

It seems far too easy to blame young untested drivers although that does not excuse the fact that they are driving on their own when they shouldn't be (like I did! )!!

And yes, I have a full, clean license and have had for almost four years.

Capt'n Midnight

r3nu4l wrote:

I wonder if the CSO have any stats on whether those involved in fatal accidents were provisional or full license holders? I would bet there are far more fully licensed drivers responsible for deaths on Irish roads than provisional drivers.

It seems far too easy to blame young untested drivers although that does not excuse the fact that they are driving on their own when they shouldn't be

Stats on Alcohol would be interesting too.
Stats on garda investigations that reported what was to blame would be interesting.

In the paper I saw that 25 out of 126 killed this year are Foreign nationals. Sort of thing you expect from the Daily Mail, pity they can't give more relevant stats.

r3nu4l

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Sort of thing you expect from the Daily Mail, pity they can't give more relevant stats.

Don't get me started on the Daily Mail :mad: In the UK, it's all anti-EU and occasionally anti-Irish, I bet the anti-Irish articles aren't printed in the "Irish" Daily Mail!

Yep, I don't see the point in publishing the number of deaths at the end of each year without publishing the factors involved, alcohol, drugs, type of license held, worst locations, type of road (dual carriageway with fully lit versus, twisty bog road, no lights), time of day/night etc. That would probably answer a lot of questions for us!

idontknowmyname

A guy I went to school with became the first victim on Thursday...he'd been in a car accident 3 weeks previous and was on life support, he took a turn and died Thursday night, still in shock

galah

r3nu4l wrote:

I wonder if the CSO have any stats on whether those involved in fatal accidents were provisional or full license holders? I would bet there are far more fully licensed drivers responsible for deaths on Irish roads than provisional drivers.

It seems far too easy to blame young untested drivers although that does not excuse the fact that they are driving on their own when they shouldn't be (like I did! )!!

And yes, I have a full, clean license and have had for almost four years.

The problem is not the name of the license and linked to that the age of the driver, but the system in place to get that license! Wasn't there a time when the gov simply sent out licenses to clear the backlog? You can hardly call these people qualified! And the test itself is not that hard, with a bit of luck, anyone can pass it without proper training - that's not what I call qualified either...

And then there's the issue of people completely overestimating their abilities (all those single-car accidents - I bet most of them happen because people simply overestimate their speed, their reactions, their car, and the road conditions) - with proper training, I bet most of these accidents could be avoided!

mike65

idontknowmyname thats terrible, and puts the reality on the numbers.

Re factors in fatalities, I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure I heard someone In Charge saying that the 'story' behind each death would be published in the future.

Mike.