Does VRT Change Based on Demand

smarty

Bluehair wrote:

We were bitching about this recently on the bmw forums. There was an even bigger increase in e36 M3s a while ago (closer to 2 grand increase i believe) and when confronted about it one of the staff in Santry vrt admited that the site is tracked and if there's particular interest in one model they 'modify' the vrt upwards :eek:

Pretty shocking tbh :mad:

On another thread this morning there were discussing VRT increasing based on the demand on the Revenues website. I have experienced this in the past and I think it does happen. However I would like to do a more scientific test.

This morning I requested a VRT quote on a Citroen C4 1.6.



It then asked me to clarify the vehicle and I chose the SX 05DR (1587CC) model.



The result was a quote of €4,570.



Now to prove this, would people mind going and retreiving the same quote and replying with the quote that you receive. I intend to request the quote again over the coming weeks, but it what people say and the site is 'tracked' it will be interesting to see the results.

Thanks.

kluivert

VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX (VRT) ENQUIRY
DATE: 07 April 2006 TIME: 11:24

---

STATISTICAL CODE: 40385288
MAKE: CITROEN
MODEL: C4 1.6
VERSION: SX 05DR / HATCHBACK / MANUAL / PETROL ONLY /
MILEAGE: 10000 MILES

---

The information requested in respect of the vehicle shown is indicated below.
DATE OF FIRST REGISTRATION(MM/YY): SEPTEMBER 2005
OPEN MARKET SELLING PRICE:
(applicable on enquiry date) €18049
RATE OF TAX: 25.0%
VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX:
(payable on enquiry date) €4512

I just this myself and this is what I got. Now although mind is slighty lower than yours, should the Open Market Value remind the same or if your theory is correct, should it have not increased slighty. I am finding it hard to believe that the Revenue are getting this one correct at all. I do believe that VRT is increasing to stop the influx of imports.

unkel

Great initiative! To make it even easier here's a direct link to the VRT site

My quote was also €4,570

Kluivert, you need to use kilometers, not miles

spockety

I get 4,570 also.

kluivert

unkel wrote:

Great initiative! To make it even easier here's a direct link to the VRT site

My quote was also €4,570

Kluivert, you need to use kilometers, not miles

My bad - 22 yrs old and still old fashioned.

Keep this up guys and we'll see what the blood hounds in the Revenue are doing.

Eoin

spockety wrote:

I get 4,570 also.

Same for me, though if there is an increase based on enquiries made, it may not be an instant change or even an automated one.

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

if there is an increase based on enquiries made, it may not be an instant change or even an automated one.

Absolutely. That's what we're trying to find out with this thread. It'll probably take some time

And in case it does up the VRT, I hope no one is thinking of importing a Citroen C4

smarty

eoin_s wrote:

Same for me, though if there is an increase based on enquiries made, it may not be an instant change or even an automated one.

I think you are right here. I expect it to be a manual change. It may take a couple of weeks, before we notice any change.

Kimbot

The VRT will stay the same, on the 1st of January the prices went up for VRT!!

smarty

jonny24ie wrote:

The VRT will stay the same, on the 1st of January the prices went up for VRT!!

I imported and registered a car on the 21st of March and when I view the VRT calculator today the price has increased by almost €1,000 euro.

Eoin

unkel wrote:

Absolutely. That's what we're trying to find out with this thread. It'll probably take some time

And if I had actually bothered my arse to read the first post properly I would have known that

Alun

OK, conspiracy theories and the like aside, could this be what's happening?

For cars otherwise readily available here on the Irish market, they have a pretty accurate idea of their worth, but for some of the more obscure Jap Imports the figures they use, especially when there might only ever have been a handful of them ever imported, the OMSP is going to be basically a bit of a guess, and for the one or two cars involved it isn't going to be worth their while spending a huge amount of time on getting it 'right', whatever that may be.

But imagine what happens if a particular model 'slips through the net', and word gets around that it's a real bargain because they got the OMSP wrong and therefore the VRT is so low. The number of these types of cars imported magically starts to rise, and the alarm bells go off at VRT headquarters ... They then take another look at the car in question and they reeavaulate the OMSP, spend a little more time investigating it, and the OMSP goes up as a consequence.

ando

I got €4512

Mailman

Revenue have in the past put up the OMSP on cars to dis-incentivise traders from importing them - it makes it virtually impossible to import second hand mainstream cars from Japan.
Check the OMSP of a European Micra and a Japanese Nissan March to see what I mean.

unkel

Alun wrote:

But imagine what happens if a particular model 'slips through the net', and word gets around that it's a real bargain because they got the OMSP wrong and therefore the VRT is so low

I'll buy that for obscure Japanese cars, but more mainstream cars have been reported to change OMSP too and then there's:

Mailman wrote:

Revenue have in the past put up the OMSP on cars to dis-incentivise traders from importing them - it makes it virtually impossible to import second hand mainstream cars from Japan.
Check the OMSP of a European Micra and a Japanese Nissan March to see what I mean.

Just checked for bog standard Jan '01 Micra and VRT is €900 and €1300 for same detail March, so I can confirm what you're saying. Obviously the actual value in the Irish market for a (UK / Irish) Micra is higher than the Jap March. Think reg plate, radio, documentation, etc.

ando wrote:

I got €4512

RTFP

kluivert

ando wrote:

I got €4512

You did want I done. You put in miles instead of KM's mate. Read OP again.

5500

The old biddy on the phone in the local office told me the rates can change on a daily basis as they are constantly being reviewed.In her exact words it "was to put fellas off buying the hondas cheap and making them dearer"

Itl be good to see if the prices rises in time tho

SouperComputer

€4570

ando

unkel wrote:

RTFP

Kersh

Can we sticky this....

neacy69

€4570.....

smarty

Just got another quote and the price is still €4,570. I wonder will it change at the end of the month, because the car is a month older?

kluivert

I had a read of the VRT manual and the web site will not change automatically this is done by consultation every say couple of months where they review OMPS and the number of cars being imported.

Eoin

smarty wrote:

Just got another quote and the price is still €4,570. I wonder will it change at the end of the month, because the car is a month older?

Doesn't look like it - I filled it out again, only I put August instead of September as the registration date (to make it the month older) and still got €4,570.

Our man in Havana

VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX (VRT) ENQUIRY
DATE: 10 April 2006 TIME: 12:26

STATISTICAL CODE: 40387600
MAKE: NISSAN
MODEL: MICRA 1.0 (To 1992)
VERSION: L 03DR / HATCHBACK / MANUAL / PETROL ONLY /
MILEAGE: 82000 MILES

The information requested in respect of the vehicle shown is indicated below.
DATE OF FIRST REGISTRATION(MM/YY): JULY 1991
OPEN MARKET SELLING PRICE:
(applicable on enquiry date) €725
RATE OF TAX: 22.5%
VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX:
(payable on enquiry date) €315

ROFFLE! I paid only 400 for that car. Where the f*** do they get the prices from? WTF? €315 is almost 50% of the "value".

kluivert

Bond-007 wrote:

ROFFLE! I paid only 400 for that car. Where the f*** do they get the prices from? WTF? €315 is almost 50% of the "value".

That cant be right can it

22.5% of €725 is €163, where are they getting €315.

Id question that.

OMSP of €725 is crazy. I reckon they make up the figures.

Importing is still the way forward.

Welcome to rip off ireland.

Mickk

Minimum vrt on any car 315

Mc-BigE

Anyone know if it’s possible to buy a second hand X5 or Range Rover or any passenger 4X4 or even SUV and Estate Cars and get them converted to Commerical
So that VRT is 50 euro flat rate?

I saw this company in Longford, but I was hoping there was one closer to me (Cork)

www.activeautos.ie

updated:
made a new thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51186631#post51186631

5500

Just checked the Vrt this morning on the honda civic coupe vti ive been looking to import and its risen twice so far this year.It went up 1000e on the first of april and 12e since saturday when i last checked (it was 2127 its now 2139)

Its as if they have a randomizer button that they press daily on these quotes,has anyone know if theres a direct part in revenue where i can complain to?

kluivert

There is a department you can appeal the decision. only after you register the car. Try ringing your local VRO office and ask to connected to the person in charge ie their manager.

padraigmyers

I am bringing in a BMW next week. The OMSP on this car is €22'250 (up €215 on the printout from 8 days ago!), yet I have enquired through a BMW dealer who says that the value is roughly €20k.

I am going to get the insurance valuation, book valuation (the bible that trade-ins and insurance claims are valued by) and the BMW dealers valuation in writing and challenge the OMSP (either when at the VRO office, or if they won't acknowledge the valuation through the appeals procedure after I have paid the VRT). I will post here on my progress.

I'd encourage anybody else who has the time to try this as well, if we can't eliminate this illegal tax (and also a double tax since its calculated post VAT), then we should at least challenge the constant over-valuation and random raising of the OMSP that the VRO office sems to be currently engaged in.

Power to the people!!

kluivert

padraigmyers wrote:

I am bringing in a BMW next week. The OMSP on this car is €22'250 (up €215 on the printout from 8 days ago!), yet I have enquired through a BMW dealer who says that the value is roughly €20k.

I am going to get the insurance valuation, book valuation (the bible that trade-ins and insurance claims are valued by) and the BMW dealers valuation in writing and challenge the OMSP (either when at the VRO office, or if they won't acknowledge the valuation through the appeals procedure after I have paid the VRT). I will post here on my progress.

I'd encourage anybody else who has the time to try this as well, if we can't eliminate this illegal tax (and also a double tax since its calculated post VAT), then we should at least challenge the constant over-valuation and random raising of the OMSP that the VRO office sems to be currently engaged in.

Power to the people!!

I am totally behind you on this one. Am looking to import a car from England in the summer Vectra or Mondeo. Let us know how it goes for you.

Mc-BigE

is there a website were you can get Irish book prices to compare against OSMP figures? like www.parkers.co.uk were they give you UK trade prices as well as showroom prices?

5500

Here's a reply i got from the vro'd complaints deparment regarding the daily price hikes in teh car i was looking at..........


I refer to your recent complaint with regard to Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) quotations.

I have contacted the Central Vehicle Office in Rosslare Harbour and am advised as follows:



The relevant legislation provides that the VRT on a category A or B vehicle is to be charged at the rate of a percentage of the Open Market Selling Price of the vehicle at the time of registration.



Open Market Selling Price (“OMSP”) means, in the case of a vehicle other than a new vehicle, the price, inclusive of all taxes and duties, which, in the opinion of the Commissioners, the vehicle, including any enhancements or accessories fitted or attached thereto or sold therewith, might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm's length sale thereof in the State by retail. It follows that Revenue is obliged to review often, and if necessary to amend, the values on the VRT system so that they correspond with the market.



As regards entitlement to a quotation given other than on the date of registration your attention is drawn to Note 1 on the VRT Enquiry quotation which states “The amount above is that payable on the date of enquiry. A different amount may be payable if the rate or the Open Market Selling Price are altered”.



In the event that you pay VRT, it is open to you to appeal the amount charged outlining your case and citing any VRT quotation upon which you relied.


Yours faithfully,





Noel Smith



Internal Review Unit.

So basically in a nice way there saying,tough ****,pay the money and then try get it back by appealing!

Our man in Havana

eireal wrote:

So basically in a nice way there saying,tough ****,pay the money and then try get it back by appealing!

And you just know how well an appeal will go. A waste of time imho.

padraigmyers

Does anyone know anyone who has appealed their VRT?
How did they get on?

kluivert

The high have ordered the Revenue to realise data to UCII - Used Car Importers of Ireland about VRT calculations.

There is no problem with VRT on new means of vehicles but VRT on second hand used cars are very inconsistent, based on "unpublished" data tables.

Big praise for the UCII for this fight.

WizZard

padraigmyers wrote:

I am bringing in a BMW next week. The OMSP on this car is €22'250 (up €215 on the printout from 8 days ago!), yet I have enquired through a BMW dealer who says that the value is roughly €20k.

I am going to get the insurance valuation, book valuation (the bible that trade-ins and insurance claims are valued by) and the BMW dealers valuation in writing and challenge the OMSP (either when at the VRO office, or if they won't acknowledge the valuation through the appeals procedure after I have paid the VRT). I will post here on my progress.

I'd encourage anybody else who has the time to try this as well, if we can't eliminate this illegal tax (and also a double tax since its calculated post VAT), then we should at least challenge the constant over-valuation and random raising of the OMSP that the VRO office sems to be currently engaged in.

Power to the people!!

Keep us informed of your progress. I'm thinking of importing a second hand BMW M Series too and the VRT is almost 75% of what I would be paying for it abroad!

BnA

I've just spotted another huge jump

Whenever I get a quote I slap it into an excel sheet that I have to calculate total cost etc... so I have a record of most of the quotes I have got.

About 6 weeks ago I got a quote for a 1998 BMW 318 IS Coupe with 70k miles. The Open Market Selling Value was €6,372 and the VRT €1,593

Today I got a quote for another '98 BMW 318 IS Coupe, this time with 90k miles. The Open Market Selling Value has risen a massive 45% to €9,235 and the VRT has risen to €2,308

I brought in a 99 one in January and I only paid €1948 on it.

unkel

padraigmyers wrote:

Power to the people!!

Indeed

I'm glad there are some stirrings starting


BTW, just checked and the C4 is still €4,570

5500

If i can find the shagging car to take in ill sure as hell try and appeal it.

Ive yet to hear of anyone appealing on any forums so far tho so im unaware how much of a chance you actually stand with it

Mc-BigE

I appealed my VRT last year; I brought in a 99 Audi S4 in Apr05. The VRT was a staggering 5100 euros!, however the following month it had dropped to 4300 euros!!, and I also had to do repair work to the Exhaust Manifolds which
Meant engine needed to be removed!! $$$$ I kept all receipts, and appealed in writing detailing all that I mentioned above and photocopies of bills to fix the manifolds (which where expensive!) The main object is to prove that the car was imported with the fault and therefore the car is worth less than the OSMP quoted for a PMO Audi S4.

To be honest I was more upset about the VRT drop than the repair bill (even though the bill was more than the difference in vrt!) and it was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak, but the vrt office give me back 450 euros mainly for the repairs with no mention of the drop in VRT! (probably to shut me up!)

Bottom line if you need to do repairs on an imported car make sure you keep receipts but also there’s a time limit 2 months from date of importation I think.

AMurphy

smarty wrote:

On another thread this morning there were discussing VRT increasing based on the demand on the Revenues website. ......

Thanks.

It's directly related to the demand for MB and Executive Jets for TD's and their not-so civil servants, that demand is accelerating, so you know which way VRT will err.

Dilbert75

I noticed the same thing - for ages I've been looking at 99/00 Octavia petrols. Up to recently, 99's were valued at €3.7k with 00's valued at €4.75k. Now the 99's are valued at nearly €4.7k, with 00's valued at around €5.9k. I've been checking prices on individual cars quite a bit but there must be something else going on. The one thing I'd say is that the market seems to be in or around where the Revenue website is pricing them.

Mc-BigE

Dilbert75 wrote:

The one thing I'd say is that the market seems to be in or around where the Revenue website is pricing them.

Too be honest the OMSP seems to be lower than what garages want for the equivalent car's , i realise its a book price and not a garage price but sometimes its lower by a lot. suppose it depends on the car.

Next time your going to buy a second hand car from a garage or private in ireland, bring along a VRT printout of the same car and quote the OMSP to them and see the reaction on there faces!:eek:

5500

Is the OMSP on the Vrt site the price there putting the car at on the road Vrt inclusive or there indication before vrt and tax added?

padraigmyers

eireal wrote:

Is the OMSP on the Vrt site the price there putting the car at on the road Vrt inclusive or there indication before vrt and tax added?

On 2nd hand cars the OMSP is the on the road price (so that would be VRT included), so you are playing 30% of the OMSP which includes VRT, therefore a double taxation. Its unbeliviable that the goverment are getting away with this tax.

Mc-BigE

padraigmyers wrote:

so you are paying 30% of the OMSP which includes VRT, therefore a double taxation. It’s unbelievable that the government are getting away with this tax.

Unfortunately we all need to drive cars, (lets not mention the state /cost of public transport! that’s for another thread) so we all need Irish Reg. Plates on our cars, so the government can do what they want and get away with it!:mad:
It’s like cigarettes and drink, as long as people need them, the government will tax them more and more.

It’s also to do with the Irish people, we seem to be very good at rolling over and taking it! Imagine if the French government did this? There would be people kicking down the Front door to the French Parliament and torching the place!

Next time a TD comes to your door asking you to vote for him, ask him if his party will scrap VRT , they will probably promise you the world, if they say "yes" vote for them under the condition that if they dont get rid of it you won't vote for them next time around.

smarty

I just checked the price again, and it is still €4,570, which got me thinking.

Could it be that the VRT people monitor the number of cars registered rather than the number of requests input into the site. This would make more sense.

sector

smarty wrote:

I just checked the price again, and it is still €4,570, which got me thinking.

Could it be that the VRT people monitor the number of cars registered rather than the number of requests input into the site. This would make more sense.

I would say obviously yes of course.

ando

Mc-BigE wrote:

The VRT was a staggering 5100 euros!, however the following month it had dropped to 4300 euros!!

ah that must have been a kick in the teeth when you found that out. I would dearly love to have an inside view as to how they can just drop vrt 800 euro, what and who makes that decision. Someone on boards must know someone that has the opportunity to ask about this and get definitive answers. Im anxious that I'll get a price from the vrt website, go to the uk, buy a car and bring it back only to be hit with €1000 extra that I was not expecting onto the bill