They are stupid, aren't they?

Victor

They are stupid, aren't they?

Belatedly added to the press info: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

aliveandkicking

It's actually painful to look at that and see what a complete b0ll0cks they have made of that station. Integration????

To think just a couple of years ago CIE owned all that land to the south of Sheriff Street :mad:

murphaph

One picture sums up how CIE in cahoots with Treasury Holdings have sold us all down the river.......

Transport21 Fan

What CIE have "managed" to do with the vast site at their disposal at Spencer Dock not only confirmend to me that CIE is a waste of space on every level, but I am starting to think that maybe no public money should be given to this shower to build the Interconnector after this fiasco.

The RPA are our only hope now. What did it for me was when they came forward to offer to build light rail in Cork, Galway and Limerick if requested. This demonstrated vision, ambition and forward planning in Irish urban rail transport that CIE with their web of rail lines around these cities never bothered to even consider. Then the RPA starting hiring some top transport and civil engineers with serious international credentials and this is how the metro hybrid idea came about - which I think is brilliant all things considered. This kind of approach from the RPA is what we who care about rail development in Ireland wanted all along; vision, ambition, hunger, clever planning and foresight all based on providing real integrated rail services and not just running trains for the sake of it - all the things CIE/IE are pathologically incapable of.

Mark my words. One day a new high-speed Intercity rail line will be built from scratch and it'll be the RPA who'll do it while Barry Kenny will be still telling us that the Enterprise is "state of the art" and the CIE unions will be still suffering from stress because the colour of the DART tickets was changed or some other trauma the poor darlings in the NBRU had to deal with. The RPA give us salvation from this and the other 60 years of CIE bull****.

Who in their right mine other than a semi-state trade union fanatic could still support CIE/IE after this carry on at Spencer Dock. The scary thing is that I do not believe there was anything sinister or dodgy about what happened there. The answer is simple and Victor call it correctly, they really are "idiots" in CIE/IE.

Victor

They all answer to one desk....

MarkoP11

Victor wrote:

They are stupid, aren't they?

Belatedly added to the press info: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

In fact thats been up for about 2 weeks, the location is no secret we all knew when we saw it on the telly. I would be more worried by not being able to find the planning notice on the site itself, I haven't seen it, I know is DCC ref 1994/06 but the legally required site notice is either not present or very well hidden

Whats going on here has little to do with Spencer Dock itself its to do with a planning condition on another development several miles away. Some genius carefully worded a condition which created a mess

Point to note is IE never planned a surface station they always planned for the underground station. Surface was a bonus forced on them by planning conditions and uncertainity with respect to the interconnector tunnel

CIE did the land deal not IE, might not sound important but it is important from a legal point of view

There are major interests here, IE, the DoT, DoF and several private companies are involved and you can guess its the money men in the private companies who are making the moves. They are all in the loop, we are passengers in all this along for the mystery tour

On the other hand you can have no station at all so its a lesser of two evils situation

Some of the Docklands land dealings are before tribunal currently

Victor

MarkoP11 wrote:

In fact thats been up for about 2 weeks, the location is no secret we all knew when we saw it on the telly. I would be more worried by not being able to find the planning notice on the site itself, I haven't seen it, I know is DCC ref 1994/06 but the legally required site notice is either not present or very well hidden

I found one at the east end of the viaduct.

MarkoP11

Victor wrote:

I found one at the east end of the viaduct.

Strange the station is to be at the west end the notice should be there. I stood on the bridge where the island platform would be and saw no notice.

Anyway I can save everyone the walk

We, Iarnrod Eireann, intend to apply for planning permission to develop a site adjacent to and north of Sheriff Street Bridge, Spencer Dock, Dublin 1. The development shall consist of a railway station, including station building and access for the public from the north side of Sheriff Street, interim staircase from the south side of Sheriff Street, interim staircase from the South Side of Sheriff Street, canopied platform, station plaza, and associated site works to include boundary treatments, staff parking and access.

And no I don't have a typo its the text DCC have

BrianD

In all fairness who would site a surface rail station on the river front? I can't see why they didn't push for an underground link.

Transport21fan - are we talking about the same RPA that built the Luas?!? IE are making further use of existing and under utilised infrastructure while RPA are just content to waste our money with sub standard metro plans that suit them and nobody else. At least IE put other proposed lines in their maps - unlike the RPA - so people can see how it fits in. Mind you they were a bit enthusiastic in putting in the yet-to-be built Macken St bridge as if its there already.

Marko - what's the planning condition on the other development several miles away?

MarkoP11

To the best of my knowledge one of the planning conditions on the Hansfield SDV stipluates a restriction on units until a new station is built in Dublin city centre, note new. This is different to Adamstown SDV which simply specified a capacity towards the city without being specific

Put simply Connolly could easily handle to demand if the 8th platform was built but then the planning condition isn't satisfied

It seems like everything is being pushed by property developers

The full truth of this will take years to come out

Zebra3

Victor wrote:

They are stupid, aren't they?

Belatedly added to the press info: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/IE_Station_Map_b.pdf

So that's where Maynooth line commuters are being dumped?

Is it just me, or would anyone else forsee future trains from Maynooth bound for Spencer Dock emptying out with everyone trying to get on the Metro North?

MT

I haven't really been following this whole Spencer dock debacle but are there any concrete plans at this stage for an underground station in the vicinity?

MarkoP11

It is important to note that those existing trains whioch serve Connolly and Pearse will remain and indeed one extra service is likely

Given the fact a Metro (North and West) serves O'Connell Street and St Stephens Green you would have a significant change anyway even those trains heading to Connolly

In fact the mess in Spencer Dock makes the case for a proper Metro Maynooth line interchange much stronger. Again I note no such interchange is shown on any RPA map

The underground station location is confirmed and protected and it does fully intergrate with Luas at Mayor Street / Spencer Dock Square

NavanJunction1

MarkoP11 wrote:

On the other hand you can have no station at all so its a lesser of two evils situation

But at least Broadstone would have been situated closer to the city centre, situated between Connolly and Hueston and would integrate with the Luas which would run DIRECTLY to Stephen's Green.

And it has an existing station. Spencer Dock is a win for nobody

Zebra3

MarkoP11 wrote:

In fact the mess in Spencer Dock makes the case for a proper Metro Maynooth line interchange much stronger. Again I note no such interchange is shown on any RPA map

Asked about it at the open day and the RPA's response was:"There'd be a lot of pressure on Irish Rail to build a station there (ie wherever Metro North crosses the Maynooth line)".

aliveandkicking

Zebra3 wrote:

Is it just me, or would anyone else forsee future trains from Maynooth bound for Spencer Dock emptying out with everyone trying to get on the Metro North?

That is why it is so vitally important we have a Maynooth line interchange with Metro either at Glasnevin or Drumcondra.

Transport21 Fan

aliveandkicking wrote:

That is why it is so vitally important we have a Maynooth line interchange with Metro either at Glasnevin or Drumcondra.

There is no alternative at all to the Drumcondra Metro/Rail interchange now - IT HAS TO HAPPEN. It that does not happen then we are looking at a fairly apocalyptic scenario in the years to come.

Would it be worth putting together thousands of flyers and handing them out on the Sligo/Maynooth line stressing the vital need for the Drumcondra Interchange? This could become a hot political potato from Broombridge to Sligo very quickly. Our Parliament of Whores would be falling over themselves to make it happen.

victor wrote:

They all answer to one desk....

The one in Willy Wonka's office I'd wager.

aliveandkicking

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Would it be worth putting together thousands of flyers and handing them out on the Sligo/Maynooth line stressing the vital need for the Drumcondra Interchange? .

Is there actually a need to do that at this stage? From talking to the RPA it seems like its going to happen anyway. The RPA are going to publish their preferred route in the Summer and I would guess this would be the official unveiling of the hybrid east/central route complete with Drumcondra interchange. (that way they can say they listened to the public during the consultation phase and came up with this hybrid route)

For the moment we can put our trust in the RPA (I never thought I'd say that) and see what route they publish in the Summer. If there is still no interchange then, thats when we can do the flyers and political lobbying but for the moment lets wait and see because they are making all the right noises now.

Victor

Iarnrod Eireann wrote:

intend to apply for planning permission to develop a site adjacent to and north of Sheriff Street Bridge,

There is no such thing as "Sheriff Street Bridge", there is however Spencer Bridge.

Spencer Dock

AFAIK this is a minor side street on the other side of the canal.

Dublin 1.

Pssst! Dublin 3.

The development shall consist of a railway station, including station building and access for the public from the north side of Sheriff Street,

No bike parking, no public transport interchange, no fire brigade or ambulance access. Lousy wheelchair access.

interim staircase from the south side of Sheriff Street,

Interim?

interim staircase from the South Side of Sheriff Street,

Again?

canopied platform,

How about sideways wind protection, what with being on a empty marshalling yard and all that.

station plaza,

LOL

and associated site works to include boundary treatments,

Um fences. Whoot!

staff parking and access.

3 car (and 4x4) spaces, 500m down a road through a building site.

MT wrote:

I haven't really been following this whole Spencer dock debacle but are there any concrete plans at this stage for an underground station in the vicinity?

It will be several hundred metres from this station on different streets. The indicative track alignments are on one of the maps.

Zebra3

aliveandkicking wrote:

The RPA are going to publish their preferred route in the Summer and I would guess this would be the official unveiling of the hybrid east/central route complete with Drumcondra interchange.

Problem there is that the Maynooth line will have split into two in Drumcondra heading towards the city centre.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

AFAIK this is a minor side street on the other side of the canal.

Yeah it is Victor, it's just at the north end of Guild St. by the church. The street nameplate says "Spencer Dock" anyway.

Victor wrote:

Pssst! Dublin 3.

Actually I think it is correct as D1 (it's about the only correct thing in that paragraph!), here's a pic from the Sheriff/New Wapping St junction looking north;

Victor wrote:

How about sideways wind protection, what with being on a empty marshalling yard and all that.

Be nice in the winter won't it, feckin horizontal rain pelting at you. What a truly miserable excuse for a station this is. :mad:

MT

Victor, is the yellow box in the docklands the site for the proposed underground station? If this is to be the case surely there's been a planning fcuk up. Couldn't the Luas stop and the underground station have crossed over in the one location allowing an instant change over?!!

Murphaph, is all the signage for the docks and terminals in D1 of the plate variety - as in your pic - or have any fingerposts been used?

Victor

murphaph wrote:

Actually I think it is correct as D1 (it's about the only correct thing in that paragraph!), here's a pic from the Sheriff/New Wapping St junction looking north;

Ok, I simplified it. The actual site entrance (on New Wapping St, as per your other photo https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/25579/27018.JPG) is in Dublin 1.

Sheriff Street marks the boundary between Dublin 1 & 3.

My Collins Dublin Streetfinder Colour Map 1998 (ISBN 0-00-448712-5) indicate the line is the north side of the Road. The (first) Popular Edition OS Dublin map 1962 (1:20,000?) indicates it is 20-30m north of the road. The station continues perhaps 120m past the road.

MT wrote:

Victor, is the yellow box in the docklands the site for the proposed underground station? If this is to be the case surely there's been a planning fcuk up. Couldn't the Luas stop and the underground station have crossed over in the one location allowing an instant change over?!!

The yellow box is the over ground station, the red circle is the Luas / underground station.

Murphaph, is all the signage for the docks and terminals in D1 of the plate variety - as in your pic - or have any fingerposts been used?

Nerd!!!! Take a look at sabre. This pic is located between (old) Wapping Street (part of the Spencer Dock site) and New Wapping Street http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=6

dowlingm

Hmmm... cunning plan executed by accident?

All those Maynoothites emptying into Docklands faced with a walk to IFSC/LUAS handed leaflets - "this would be a dockfront underground station with adjacent LUAS. Unfortunately we have been denied funding time and again for Interconnector. This overground inconvenient station is all we could afford for now. You will be walking until at least 2015".

:cool:

murphaph

MT wrote:

Murphaph, is all the signage for the docks and terminals in D1 of the plate variety - as in your pic - or have any fingerposts been used?

It's all plate style stuff AFAIK. As Victor pointed out, I've put a fair few images up on SABRE of the general area. Dublin City Council are one of the better local authorities where signage is concerned, though still far from perfect.

Victor

Cover note with application, containing some fibs.

Metrobest

When last year I read through the glossy brochures for Spencer Dock development, I thought: "Oh that's weird - they've planned a linear park parallel to the canal, wasn't there supposed to be a sub surface rail station there?"

There was.

Then I thought to myself, would a private developer want their expensive new apartments overlooking a rail line? I mean, Prospective buyers would be put off at the thought of noisy trains under their balconies. Instead, the proximity to the canal could be marketed as a selling point.

That's the gist of it. The interests of a private developer came before the traveling public's. Food for thought for anyone who wants to keep Irish Rail as a subsidised semistate monopoly.

Transport21 Fan

Metrobest, the original plans (by that I mean the first published) showed the rail line entering onto the south side of Sherriff Street bridge inside a linear concrete box with the apartments built above it. The station itself was fully integrated with the Luas (and interconnector) and all three lines from Maynooth/Northern and Midland were still running into it. The whole thrust of the plan was that the railway was key to the design, and the developments were to work around it.

NavanJunction1

Transport21 Fan wrote:

the original plans (by that I mean the first published).

Any idea what it was called (document's name), where it could be found and if it could be posted up here?

NavanJunction1

Transport21 Fan wrote:

all three lines from Maynooth/Northern and Midland were still running into it..

When was all of this officially scrapped?

Transport21 Fan

NavanJunction1 wrote:

Any idea what it was called (document's name), where it could be found and if it could be posted up here?

I'll PM you.

Victor

http://www.spencerdock.ie/Spencer_Dock_Residential.pdf

http://www.dublincity.ie/shaping_the_city/future_planning/development_plan/Maps/MAPJ.pdf

Note large downloads.

Victor

There is also this, I think I found it on www.ddda.ie but I can't find where.

[edit] here www.ddda.ie/uploads/pdfs/Transport%20map.pdf but don't ask me where that link is actually on the site.