superman is evil

Catullus

I have to say I always had difficulties with superman. when you think about it he's pretty evil.
If he's capable of moving faster than a speeding bullet then it only stands to reason he can think at the same speed. Every day for him must've been excruciating intellectual agony as he had to converse with dullards at a soul crushingly slow pace, our thought processes, motion and speech appearing like a slowed down tape over a perpiod of hours/days weeks and soforth.

If he was capable of thinking at such a rate surely he would've been the most breathtaking super-genius of all time and could've built all kinds of incredible machinery to get us into outer space, solve world hunger, solve all power crises, unite galaxies/races etc. NOt to mention the fact that he only turned time back to save this girl he fancied who he wasn't evne going out with, rather than say, stopping the holocaust or The Soviet purges or chernobyl or saving the lives of ghandi, Martn Luther King, Jesus and people like that.

No. All he did was stay in this one little town and chase this bit of skirt while working as a journalist. Sickening.

plenderj

Just because he's a quick thinker doesn't mean he's not as thick as two short planks

Cungi

Psst. Superman dosen't exist

Maccattack

Cungi wrote:

Psst. Superman dosen't exist

Ooohh I'm telling my mum on you...



MUUUUUUMMM HEEEEES TELLING LIES

birdwatcher

Spot on there Plenderj.
....and his Super-Lazer-vision-zapper-weapon-thingy obviously didn't do his sight much good.....Lois Lane was a bit of a minger...you'd think Superman could have any bird in the world....so why would he pick a bird with a face like a spanked arse.

And he could have picked a decent tailor too...those tights were a little too revealing....I'm surprised he wore any undies at all.

birdwatcher

Maccattack wrote:

Ooohh I'm telling my mum on you...



MUUUUUUMMM HEEEEES TELLING LIES

For f*cks sake people, we're trying to have a seroius discussion here. If you can't contribute something positive, then don't bother posting at all.


....and for the record, they're not actually lies, they're just untruths designed to upset you sweetie, We'll get the big boys to sort him out later.

:rolleyes:

Catullus

plenderj wrote:

Just because he's a quick thinker doesn't mean he's not as thick as two short planks

you've a point, but surely the likelihood is that if you can think at a certain superfast rate, say, faster than the fastest computer, one thought following another, you could make some impressive progress. I mean just to keep yourself remotely occupied for a month at his reading speed you'd have to read all the worlds libraries!

monkeyfudge

Superman is a dick...

Cungi

Maccattack wrote:

Ooohh I'm telling my mum on you...



MUUUUUUMMM HEEEEES TELLING LIES

Sorry Clark. By the way Lois is a minger

Maccattack

birdwatcher wrote:

For f*cks sake people, we're trying to have a seroius discussion here. If you can't contribute something positive, then don't bother posting at all.


....and for the record, they're not actually lies, they're just untruths designed to upset you sweetie, We'll get the big boys to sort him out later.

:rolleyes:

Man you have issues. And this 'dont bother posting' thing. Is that a direct order? Last I heard this was a public forum. When were the dictators let in?

jsr

Just cos SM can move fast doesn't mean he can think fast. In the that case the fastest man in world would be the smartest and I dont see Stephen Hawkins winning Gold in many sprints! Well if he pimped his chair he might:D

aidan_walsh

If he's capable of moving faster than a speeding bullet then it only stands to reason he can think at the same speed.

No, it doesn't. Therefore, the rest is moot.

Catullus

surely it does mean just that, otherwise he'd be killed instantly or at least unable to do anything at that speed. We've all seen him reading superfast in films etc. Surely this means his brain works at the same rate!

aidan_walsh

A lot of that (except maybe reading) would be reflex action, which doesn't require conscious thought.

Also, if you've ever seen any of the movies, tv shows or comics, you'll notice that while Superman is formulating a plan, he usually hovers in mid air\stands there for a second watching the person get away until he acts. Because he can move faster means he has more time before he has to act, but it doesn't mean he thinks faster.

jsr

Catullus wrote:

surely it does mean just that, otherwise he'd be killed instantly or at least unable to do anything at that speed. We've all seen him reading superfast in films etc. Surely this means his brain works at the same rate!

Still doesn't mean he is a creative thinker he could have the imagination of a wet dish rag, and prob does judging from his outfit.

blu_sonic

i got an edition of "wizard" and it had funny quotes from old comics and one was from ol supes best mate bats when talking to a female "wrong doer" he says "shut up or poppa slap" i fell over laughing

Catullus

No I'm sure I've seen him not only reading but also writing up articles for the Daily planet at super speed, steaming pumping out of the type writer!

BlitzKrieg

i stand by my theory that the best superman stories are the ones written by writers who dont actually like him.

Catullus

BlitzKrieg wrote:

i stand by my theory that the best superman stories are the ones written by writers who dont actually like him.

example?

blu_sonic

shouldn't this be in the comic forum? but anyway how could anyone like superman hes such a badly written character pretty much infalable, unbeatable etc, look at the marvel characters, they are far more rounded as characters. ie wolverine compleatly falable his powers reflect this "a healing factor" one could argue his life is so broken up that he can survive any physical wound but not his mental wounds.

DC. poorly written characters depending on action and super powers etc.
Marvel. characters that are well rounded and fairly well devoloped

NikNik

Catullus wrote:

surely it does mean just that, otherwise he'd be killed instantly or at least unable to do anything at that speed. We've all seen him reading superfast in films etc. Surely this means his brain works at the same rate!

Superman has the ability to move superfast, but he only goes superfast when he needs to. Same goes for his brainpower. You can see when you watch him that not everything he does is in double-time. He can control when to use his abilities.

What a legend

BlitzKrieg

Catullus wrote:

example?

season 2 of justice league unlimited i think

the one where superman is a dick

. the story was penned by the batman of the future writer *i think* and he's not very fond of superman.


Also i'm pretty sure frank miller is not a superman fan and how he writes him in dark knight returns is excellent.

Binomate

Ever read the bible? God murdered pleanty of people to get what he wanted. What ever about mass genocide, but when it's mass genocide of children that is a different story. Oh wait, God killed every first born child in egypt, didn't he! What a scumbag. People are aware superman is fiction, people not only think God exists but worship him!

BrenC

The new Lois Lane in superman returns is a hotty

http://myhorseconnection.com/kate/katebosworth43.jpg

RoundyMooney

Binomate wrote:

Ever read the bible? God murdered pleanty of people to get what he wanted. What ever about mass genocide, but when it's mass genocide of children that is a different story. Oh wait, God killed every first born child in egypt, didn't he! What a scumbag. People are aware superman is fiction, people not only think God exists but worship him!

Hee! Hee! Aaow!

So, you think the Bible 'aint fiction then I take it?

RoundyMooney

BrenC wrote:

The new Lois Lane in superman returns is a hotty

http://myhorseconnection.com/kate/katebosworth43.jpg

She has more fake tan than a Girls Aloud photoshoot for their latest foray into pre-teen exploitation...

Nuts photoshop FTW

Binomate

RoundyMooney wrote:

Hee! Hee! Aaow!

So, you think the Bible 'aint fiction then I take it?

The Bible should be certified 18's or better yet banned. To much brainwashing and violence in it. I can't believe it's still being taught to kids.

joejoem

RoundyMooney wrote:

She has more fake tan than a Girls Aloud photoshoot for their latest foray into pre-teen exploitation...

Nuts photoshop FTW

roffle

joejoem

NikNik wrote:

Superman has the ability to move superfast, but he only goes superfast when he needs to. Same goes for his brainpower. You can see when you watch him that not everything he does is in double-time. He can control when to use his abilities.

What a legend

Now I know what you had pictured me wearing....

Pigman II

"What Kent wears, the glasses, the business suit, that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race."
- Kill Bill 2

So to hell with Superman and his stupid blue/red costume!

joejoem

Pigman II wrote:

"What Kent wears, the glasses, the business suit, that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race."
- Kill Bill 2

So to hell with Superman and his stupid blue/red costume!

But it looks so cool

monkeyfudge

blu_sonic wrote:

DC. poorly written characters depending on action and super powers etc.
Marvel. characters that are well rounded and fairly well devoloped

Yeah... Marvel had some great storylines with Spider-man.

Have a look at this one

monkeyfudge

Haha..

Have a look at this one

Superman is rubish at maths... see? he's not smart at all.

plenderj

um 3840 beans?

Pigman II

plenderj wrote:

um 3840 beans?

3200. 2lbs for the jar! You ain't getting into the justice league with that kind of aritmetic.

plenderj

Ahh yeah I forgot about the jar... and to think - I teach software development lol

CodeMonkey

Catullus wrote:

I have to say I always had difficulties with superman. when you think about it he's pretty evil.

He's only evil when comes into contact with red krytonite...

If he's capable of moving faster than a speeding bullet then it only stands to reason he can think at the same speed.

What is that suppose to mean? He can think at 1000 feet a second or whatever caliber bullet you want to use? Sprinters are of course the most intellectual people in the world. Think I can ignore the next 2 paragraphs

No. All he did was stay in this one little town and chase this bit of skirt while working as a journalist. Sickening.

You're assuming he can single handedly police the entire world and just because he has super powers then it's his duty to police the world instead of the city he lives in? That's probably against his all american sense of freedom. Plus isn't the new justice league with their space station HQ orbiting earth basically superman recruiting all the other superheroes together to police the world?

ps: errrm, no, never read a DC or Marvel comic in my life. I just watch a lot of cartoons

blu_sonic

monkeyfudge wrote:

Yeah... Marvel had some great storylines with Spider-man.

Have a look at this one

see great writing who'd tackle a subject like that? but seriously Marvel now are far better than DC. That was silver age those comics are like that DC included, you should seen golden and platinum age

AngryBadger

Pappa Spank!

Monty - the one and only

moved to comics.... where it should have been posted in the first place.

blu_sonic

ha ha ha look at the cows lick class

NikNik

joejoem wrote:

Now I know what you had pictured me wearing....

As i said, you wouldn't be winking

joejoem

NikNik wrote:

As i said, you wouldn't be winking

In your own words :eek:


You have a dirty mind.


On a side note..... Cavegirl


I think I better stop now

Flashling

So if superman had super speed, then his brain would work super fast because it was part of his body (I'm not saying this well), so he would think super fast. How does he control the speed?

AngryBadger

Flashling wrote:

So if superman had super speed, then his brain would work super fast because it was part of his body (I'm not saying this well), so he would think super fast. How does he control the speed?

.....with a big stick?

Fysh

This thread doesn't really seem to be going anywhere of any interest. If anyone wants to discuss superman's merits and so forth, feel free to do so provided you're not just repeating the same points over and over.

(Though I feel personally compelled to say that : a) the guys who invented him would know best and aren't around to ask anymore, and more pertinently b) he's a fictional character).

Also, no more off-topicness please. Discussing people's dirty minds may well be entertaining, but AH is more likely to be the place for it.

nohshow

I think it's about time somebody stood up for the rights of us fictional characters. Yes, Supes is fiction and proud of it.

Super speed, not necessarily super brainy. Super reflexes, thoough, so he can probably jump to a wrong conclusion pretty quickly. You can see him as Othello, in that case, should Lois ever leave her hanky in the wrong pocket.

The thing that actually bugs me about him, though, is that everything has been said about him that needs to be said. Is he evil? No. He's been raised with humans with human attitudes, so he's no more evil than most of us. Does he waste himself as a resource? Well of course he does, for the very reason already given. But for him, the wastage is way counter-balanced by the usefulness. He's saved lives, as any of us would, that mean something to him. He hasn't undone the evils of history because, as Marlon told him, "You are forbidden to tamper with time" or whatever it was he was saying - he mumbled so I might have misheard.

But besides this parental edict, there is the nature of spacetime itself that would ultimately have scuppered any such misguided attempt. The conservation of heat, mass, energy, all that, would have left a different six million people dying in a different holocaust, or a different WWII with a different socio-political outcome that would still have resulted in a small losing country producing all the transistor radios while the moderately large loser went on to make the world's finest automobiles. Hitler would have been a comedy actor while Charlie Chaplin would have tried to invade Poland (a state in South Carolina I believe). Tsunamis? Try stopping the forces of nature. They just go somewhere else. Earthquakes? You mean, when the planet settles down? You'd prefer maybe if it continued to quake over months and months rather than get it all over with in one day.

You know, thinking it over, I wonder if maybe even God would think twice before he started making massive changes on a world-wide scale. So, if it'd be a tough choice for God, I think I'd be prepared to cut Supes a little slack.

Yo.

Abby D Cody

I think it was Jim Steranko who said that if Superman didn't exist, we'd have to invent him. I think this proves he doesn't exist . . . because we invented him . . . you see?

plenderj

I think Zarathustra would have something to say about that!

Fysh

You know, if this manages to turn into a philosophical discussion about superman from the Nietzschean perspective (ie DC's superman versus the ubermensch idea) I'm going to feel really silly splitting that part of the thread off into the philosophy forum....

I've never been particularly interested in Superman as a character myself, although I did enjoy Millar's Red Son, chiefly because of the way Superman eventually came to believe that the ends justify the means. Although that was an Elseworlds story so shouldn't really be used to justify either side of the argument, really.

Assuming anyone's still interested in the debate : what are your arguments for or against the case of superman being evil? (Hopefully this won't devolve into the "vigilantes : terrorists or champions of the people's justice" debate or we'll be here for months...)

the Shades

As was stated before, Superman is no more evil than the rest of us. He was raised on Earth by human parents and taught their morals and values, he is therefore subject to human thought processes and defines his own morality through those learned values. Superman makes his own choices on waht he chooses to do with his powers and how far he chooses to take them. He's taken a vow never to kill and values human life above everything. It would be easy for him to set himself up as a dictator and change the world as he sees fit but he also sees part of being human as the right to make errors and learn from them. He steps in every now and then to remove a particular threat but he isn't here to babysit humanity. One of the best accounts of what make Superman Superman was in Action Comics 775 published a couple of years ago.

As for Frank Miller, The Dark Knight Strikes Again proved just how clueless he is about the character and that was perhaps the biggest of the many, many flaws of that series.

As was noted in Kill Bill, Superman isn't just a disguise for Clark Kent, it's who he is. Even if he had no superpowers Clark would probably have become a doctor or fireman or done whatever was in his power to help other people. Batman is in the same mould. Bruce Wayne is a disguise Batman uses to hide his identity and fund his career. If Bruce's parents hadn't died he probably would have become a doctor like his father. In fact, Bruce also still adheres to the morals and values his parents gave him. Sure he's practically a psychopath and is only different to his enemies by the side of the law he's on, but in his own twisted way he still hold true to certain core values.
Spider-man on the other hand is Peter Parker's disguise. Peter Parker's initial reaction to gaining powers was to use them for his own gain and make money wrestling with them. He only turns to helping people out of guilt when his Uncle Ben dies, and it's that guilt that makes him continue. Several times he's thought of quitting and usually only continues because he wants to relieve his assumed guilt. In fact the poor alien symbiote that came to Earth and bonded with Parker was forever altered into the evil psycopath Venom after Parker rejected it.

So is Superman evil? No. Is Spider-man evil? No, but he is a selfish P****