Brendan Gleesons A&E outrage

fischerspooner

I'm just glad I have no sick relatives in hospital right now. But you have to ask yourself what the hell our government do with the money they get. A&E is just one example, look at our roads, policing, lack of public transport etc. etc. etc...


this is what he had to say:
"There are people here whose parents are going to die in disgusting
circumstances. The only reason people aren't burning the offices of the
health board is because the staff are keeping the people, in as much as
they can, in some sort of human situation, but this is absolutely
disgusting. John O'Shea of GOAL should come into Ireland and we'll give
him some charity money and let him sort out what we are doing to our old
people.
Now I'd like to ask, if they don't sort this thing in three to six
months, anybody who votes for this crowd to get back in next time, might
as well shoot themselves. I'll be honest with you; I don't think much of
the other crowd either. There's no point in being negative and funny
about it, this is really really upsetting.
Do you know what it's like if your going to vote for this crowd at the
moment, this is the way I feel about it - That if somebody came in and
started punching your mother and father around the room and you went up
and patted them on the back and said 'sure I know you must be upset'. It
is disgusting that we are allowing people to die when we have billions,
a baboon could sort this bloody thing out.
The professor Drumm's and the Mary Harney's and all this shower and. you
know what's on the oncology department wall - Michael Martin's name on a
plaque, an oncology department where my mother in law was dying, where
they were people on chairs with grieving people, there were people
trying to fight for life and cling on to hope beside people who were
dead - and this moron's name is on a plaque, when he screwed the place
from the time he went in to the time he left - what the bloody hell is
going on?

ferdi

fischerspooner wrote:

Now I'd like to ask, if they don't sort this thing in three to six
months, anybody who votes for this crowd to get back in next time, might
as well shoot themselves. I'll be honest with you; I don't think much of
the other crowd either. There's no point in being negative and funny
about it, this is really really upsetting

this is the problem, i dont see anyone in irish politcs who could sort this mess, they are all as bad as eachother, i like the idea of John O'Shea of GOAL coming in...

homah_7ft

fischerspooner wrote:

But you have to ask yourself what the hell our government do with the money they get.

SSIA's, public service pay rises etc.

Earthhorse

Yeah, because John O'Shea and GOAL have solved all the problems of the third world haven't they?

I appreciate Gleeson's grief in the matter but he doesn't really say anything insightful or interesting on the issue. It's just a rant.

ivan087

i think the people need to say to the government that unless you dont sort this problem out there is no way a soul in this country will vote for the party. you could then be sure there would be a change in the governments priorities. but i dont think this will happen. most people in this country have no need to go to hospital and are happy enough with the status qou. expect to see this government in power in the next elections with the same problems and broken promises.

it really is a time for a new government. 18 out of the last 20 years have had FF in power. CHANGE! (8 1/2 hours with no fags - the rants continue:mad: )

froggie_1

i agree completely with Earthorse post.
Its just a rant...
im not on the side of the govt here, but i cant stand it when people over simplify an issue and vilify the people involved.
Callin Micheal Martin a moran is not at all helpful or even fair.
Brendan Gleeson is an actor and how he sees himself qualified to launch such an attack on the govt i dont know...
I can understand his frustration at the situation (which is disgraceful, dont get me wrong) but that sort of talk isnt exactly productive...
on the other hand, some would say, us not talking and ranting about it enough is part of the problem, so maybe what im saying ist correct....
when i heard him though i just had to say to myself.... if it was that easy to sort out all our problems it would have been done ages ago....
i like what he said about the "other crowd" though... and i firmly believe that anyone who thinks they are any better/different is seriously mistaken

homah_7ft

I didn't hear this interview. What was his solution?

I'm guessing the John O'Shea part was for effect.

froggie_1

but on the other hand, what can we do as a society (as david macwilliams would say!!) only exercise our right to vote.... so lettin the other crowd have a go is all we can do.... i think these things take time though and maybe getting the present crowd out would be counter productive...
i just dont know.... maybe we need more ranting and ravin... trouble is poloticians dont listen to rants and raves from the likes of Brendan Gleeson and Eamonn Dunphy

HelterSkelter

True, he was on a rant and didn't have any answers or suggestions. But that's the way most of us feel and what was powerful about his rant is he was speaking for everyone in the country who has ever been in or has had relatives in hospital. We don't have the answers but the people in power should. Why is nothing being done about the A&E crisis? Why is it getting worse all the time instead of better? As far as I can see NOTHING has improved since Harney came into power. It is not up to me, you or Brendan Gleeson to suggest solutions to this, it is up to the people we elect, the people who accepted this job and responsibility that goes along with it. We are perfectely entitled to critise them for not imporving things. It is wrong to say we cannot critise, have a rant and offer no solutions. If I am not making any progress in my job and not coming up with any valid reasons for it my boss will rant and rave at me, he will not tell me how to do the job, his attitude will be get it done, that is what you are paid for.

HelterSkelter

froggie_1 wrote:

but on the other hand, what can we do as a society (as david macwilliams would say!!) only exercise our right to vote.... so lettin the other crowd have a go is all we can do....

I think that could help things. The "crowd" in power are too comfortable. Things will not change, especially if they win the next election. I don't think FG/Lab have the solutions either. But I believe if you keep voting for whoever IS NOT in power you keep the party in power on their toes and they work harder for you!

Savman

His opinion/rant is welcomed because it publicises the issue when a celeb says it. Bertie loves hobnobbing and having a glam image with the voters so you have to hit 'em where it hurts

A load of self publicising crap. That rant could have been given at any time, 1936, 1956, 1976, 2006, and about any issue, health, education, transport, and an audience like the late late's would lap it up. There is nothing safer than saying something like 'the country is a mess' - everyone will nod their head.

The simple fact is that we've never had it so good -that's not to say things are great, just that they have not been better - but moaning is so much easier than expecting anyone to compare 2006 with, say, 1986 and looking at cold hard facts about the economy or employment or the infrastructure or the North or any of a range of issues...

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

The simple fact is that we've never had it so good -that's not to say things are great, just that they have not been better

Maybe for you, but have you had to visit an A&E Dept recently??? I don't think so or else you would not have this opinion. In the 80's you could go to A&E and be back home in 2 hours. That was when times were bad. Now with all our wealth it takes up to 12 hours to even see a doctor, then you can be days on a trolley in a hallway.

homah_7ft

HelterSkelter wrote:

True, he was on a rant and didn't have any answers or suggestions. But that's the way most of us feel and what was powerful about his rant is he was speaking for everyone in the country who has ever been in or has had relatives in hospital. We don't have the answers but the people in power should. Why is nothing being done about the A&E crisis? Why is it getting worse all the time instead of better? As far as I can see NOTHING has improved since Harney came into power. It is not up to me, you or Brendan Gleeson to suggest solutions to this, it is up to the people we elect, the people who accepted this job and responsibility that goes along with it. We are perfectely entitled to critise them for not imporving things. It is wrong to say we cannot critise, have a rant and offer no solutions. If I am not making any progress in my job and not coming up with any valid reasons for it my boss will rant and rave at me, he will not tell me how to do the job, his attitude will be get it done, that is what you are paid for.

Nothing says that it is possible to improve the situation. It may be simply inevitable. I'm not saying it is inevitable but it could be that there is no solution.

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

Maybe for you, but have you had to visit an A&E Dept recently??? I don't think so or else you would not have this opinion.

I was in A & E in the 80s. Home in 2 hours? Frankly it was nearer to 2 days than 2 hours.

But that's my experience. If the people think points like 'a baboon could sort this bloody thing out' are cogent and incisive enough to merit applause, fair enough. I suspect there would be a certain crossover with the same people who whooped and hollered and guffawed when Eddie Hobbs minced his way around the stage yet will snap up the property he is trying to flog in Cape Verde...

It's just so easy to knock. It always has been and always will.

Savman

its not just about A&E which solely depends on how many accidents there are at a given moment in time, and unless it's Halloween or NYE, I can understand why that would be hard to predict.

What Brendan Gleeson was referring to was the general state of things in healthcare, which spreads a lot wider than just A&E.

Conor74 there is a huge difference between people "moaning" and people angry at the current situation, it's nothing short of shocking and if someone in the public eye speaking out about it will have any positive effect then I'm all for it.

Also regarding us "never having it so good" - think again, some things have improved others havent. While the financial sector might be thriving and the IT industry is booming, the fact is somebody left our health system in the 80's and its only due to the improvements elsewhere we can convincingly compare hospitals to projects like the Port Tunnel and bertie's "spire" which the govt have thrown money at.

Don't start about the Luas, it's not that great, remember the country already had trams so the reintroduction of 2 lines shouldn't really be a big issue...

DaBreno

Delighted to see that show and glad to see the theme of bringing out celeb after celeb to give out stink at the state of affairs of this countrys most important areas like Health and education.

Everyone in this country grumbles but no one does anything. The Govt dont care now when a corruption scandal comes out or someone else dies in a car crash. They know people will still vote for them or just not vote at all. They love the apathy. No one gets angry enough to change the system and the Government surley aint going to do it.

I hope this is the start of a growing sense of public anger and calls for a change at all levels, of people taking responsibility for the way this country is being run and not accepting the way things are right now.

Howard Beale had a good one : " We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone. "

"Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.
I want you to get mad! "

daveirl

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DublinWriter

daveirl wrote:

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Very very true.

On my last day working in Brussels, I developed a bad ear infection leading to a burst ear drum and waking up to a pillow with blood all over it.

Straight down to my local hospital, explaining in my broken French that I had a problem with my ear, the desk clerk immediately sent me up to the ENT department.

I waited just an hour, saw three ENT specialists, had a full audiology test, got a prescription for antibiotics and was out on the street three hours later in time for my flight. Total cost? €90 including prescription, and that wasn't taking into account any medical insurance - I'd just walked in off the street.

Here? I would have been parked in A&E for a couple of days.

I used to laugh at Belgians who used to complain about paying such high tax and tell them about the A&E situation here. Many didn't believe me!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Font22

Before I make my point I'd like to say how sorry I feel for anyone that has to deal with a situation like Brendan Gleesons. I know there are many families in the same sad state of affairs and it must be awful.

However, I have to say that we cant place blame soley on the government. There is no doubt the health service is in a mess but there are many factors to take into account. Maybe we should be looking to the management systems in place in hospitals. Money is being pumped into many services but the manner in which they are managed leaves a lot to be desired.

Just my opinion.

gandalf

I agree 100% with Brendan Gleeson the A&E Situation and the Hospitals are a disgrace. And we should call this government to task over it with all the resources they have at their disposal. Instead of concentrating on sorting out the health service they wasted money on the stadium that never was, the voting machines that were never used, the Port Tunnel that leaks, a Health Payroll system that went wildly out of control. If they are voted back in we should all be ashamed. The problem is our Health Service is down approx 3000 beds on where they should be. This is why our A&E's are so full, sick people cannot go to a ward where they should be.

Now I hear you all say thats a nice rant but unfortunately I have experienced our Hospitals first hand with both my parents over the last year.

Last April the 4th my father had a stroke. He was in A&E in Vincents for nearly 2 days and only got admitted because I rang his Heart Consultant who pulled a few strings and got him admitted quicker. Unfortunately for Dad he had a bleed in his brain while in A&E which increased the damage and the paralysis on his left side. Over the next 8 months in hospital Dad was moved from ward to ward. What became apparent over this ordeal was the fact the staff on the whole were brilliant and how they can work in an environment like this is beyond me. There are not enough of them for the few beds that they have. The wards are manky because they are nearly always full of patients so they cannot clean them on a regular enough basis to keep them clean. Because of this MRSA is rife in the hospital, the old man caught that as well.

On the 28th of October at 6.15pm my Father died. I cannot help wondering if we had a better Health Service would he be still around.

4 weeks ago my mother got quite ill, I took her to the VHI Smartclinic who mistakenly thought she had food poisoning and dehydration, I brought her to Vincents the day after. Vincents initially thought it was the same problem. It took them 4 hours to see her in A&E and they treated her initally for the same issue. It turns out she had a blockage in her small colon. She sat on a trolley in A&E for 3 days eventhough they said it was very serious. Luckly she came out of Vincents last Monday but I can report that things are still as bad as I remember it, the Winter Vomiting bug is rife, staff shortages again with patients getting the bare minimum of attention and the wards are still manky.

I hope most of you do not have to experience having someone you care about in A&E or our Hospitals at the moment because to be frank they are a disgrace.

Saintly

Never had it so good?!!

Not in the health service. With increased demands from an aging population without adequate community supports, things are absolutely getting worse.

I work in an A&E dept (prepare for a rant!). It is quite simply, horrific. You hear it on the news, you read it in the papers but people are still so shocked when they arrive into the Emergency Dept and see the conditions in which they will be treated. Just think about what it is like to wait in an Emergency Dept for three days - no hot meals served…inadequate toilet facilities. People with serious health problems, in terrible discomfort, stuck on a corridor, while the whole hospital rushes past (no privacy, either) Just imagine 72 hours of that – or worse, watching someone you love like that. Your expensive health insurance policy won't make a blind bit of difference and you better hang onto that trolley/chair etc if you nip to the loo, it's liable to be swiped. You wouldn't believe what goes on behind the scenes when you are bartering for admissions and discharges.

It's simplistic to say that A&E difficulties are caused by misuse of the service (though that's certainly an issue). Many people who attend require emergency or hospital attention. The elderly bed blockers you read so much about?? These are people who could manage very well in the community with appropriate social supports. I can categorically say from my last four years of experience, that things are definitely getting worse, here's an everyday example (so far this week, 9 similar admissions and it's only Wednesday!):

This morning, I saw a 91 year old lady, who lives alone, deemed fit to be discharged with a shoulder injury from a medical perspective. This lady does not have family, or friends physically fit to help. Despite her failing mobility and frail health, she is allocated just 2 hours of assistance per week, to help her with shopping, cleaning, collect her pension cooking etc from the community. She also gets meals on wheels 3 days per week – no service at the weekend, people apparently aren't hungry on those days… my lady eats cereal and biscuits at the weekends. Her home help service cannot provide any additional assistance, despite her injury. Mary Harney introduced a convoluted home care grant package which essentially funds private care (which is mostly paid to private care agencies to supply unmonitored care to elderly, vulnerable people). To access this funding, my lady will have to be admitted to hospital (we can't apply for it, unless we admit her, even though she doesn't require any medical care) All in all, the entire process will take about three weeks to a month, at which time my lady will be discharged to the care of … that unmonitored private agency. As there are no care-workers in the community, she will have to arrange her care herself.

If someone in your family is elderly and sick, expect limited supports. If someone in your family has a stroke and requires the basic rehab package that is known to optimise recovery, don't expect to get it. If someone in your family is assaulted/is in a car accident/ falls and suffers a head injury, be aware that our brain injury rehab facilities are nil and most of the people I see never receive it – thereby limiting their potential for the rest of their lives. It's so appalling, so horrible to know that there are simple, mind-numbingly simple options to avoid such scenarios.

The most frustrating part is that this isn't about beds or money. There is money flying around the place. They are paying big bucks to put thirty year olds with acquired brain injuries into nursing homes rather than planning and developing a rehab service. Completely unethical practices and short term solutions so that the minister can lower the daily bed count. I held out hope for MH but there is a serious lack of political will and commitment to provide a comprehensive planned service.

It's simply not enough to say that we've never had it so good, we've never squandered so much! This isn't rocket science. It's not, by any stretch of the imagination, impossible to change the present situation. There are proven models of effective health care delivery. Hire the right people, develop practical responses to the hundreds of reports left dusting on ministerial shelves. Cut out the bureaucratic crap, free up the beds we have, rather than creating news one. Other countries provide healthcare and provide it very well. We are operating in a ridiculous, completely illogical care system which forces acute hospitals to care for medically well people.

Report after report indicates the same needs and year after year, this government ignores them. It is just heartbreaking to see the very real impact on patients and their families. I won't start on paediatric care.

I warned you it was going to be a rant!! I could kiss Brendan Gleeson, as someone who has experienced the system recently, he should rant. He's a consumer, not an actor and his voice should be heard. As for who you choose to vote for, that's an individual decision. IMO, it comes down to your definition of quality of life. If healthcare is important to you, I cannot see how you could possibly vote for the present government. Twenty years on and they are compounding the same mistakes and ignoring widely accepted principles of best practice. I'll vote for anyone but them, because whatever the alternative is, things cannot get worse.

I am climbing off my soapbox now, nothing like a good old rant to clear the head before bed!

Saintly.

FlutterinBantam

What Il'l have to say is this....

Where has Gleeson been living for the last..say.. 10 years

Where does he pay his taxes.... where does he pay most of his taxes?

I know it wasn't he who was involved but it makes a difference.

Regarding O'Shea...for jaysus sake....he can fix anything in his head..y'know once he hasn;t the power to do anything.We can all do that....

Another thing.... nobody mentions the intransigence of the consultants/INO...etc..


I would LOVE to know the absenteeisim figures for these hospitals..is it the same/worse/better than other comparable jurisdictions?

Nobody mentions this... Hmmmm ...wonder why...

Saintly

FlutterinBantam wrote:

What Il'l have to say is this....

Where has Gleeson been living for the last..say.. 10 years

Where does he pay his taxes.... where does he pay most of his taxes?

I know it wasn't he who was involved but it makes a difference.

What difference does it make?? Anyone is entitled to make a comment on the healthservice, particularly if their family members have had direct experience of it. Besides if you stick to the theory that only taxpayers have a right to an opinion, well Gleeson was a teacher until 33- presumably he contributed during those years and has since, during his involvement in the Irish film industry.

FLUTTERINGBANTAM wrote:

Another thing.... nobody mentions the intransigence of the consultants/INO...etc..

I agree - as part of a long term solution, the consultants protected positions have to be tackled. Equally, the growing role of nursing and the subsequent impact upon ground staff availability has to addressed. In an Emergency Dept however, where you have 24/7 consultant and nursing staff cover, other issues are causing the crisis.

FLUTTERINGBANTAM wrote:

I would LOVE to know the absenteeisim figures for these hospitals..is it the same/worse/better than other comparable jurisdictions?

Don't know of comparative research pieces. IMO, there is a DEFINITE link between stress and absenteeism. Absenteeism shot up last year following a number of nasty assaults on staff and a morale that was just depressing. The core issues were tackled and we're back to normal - bar the winter vomiting victims! Hospitals can be high stress environments, people know that going into a job but it's when there is an overspill, i.e. security issues, managing problematic, aggressive patients without supports etc, that you see stress levels start to tip over.

FLUTTERINGBANTAM wrote:

Nobody mentions this... Hmmmm ...wonder why...

Because, the things you mentioned are important - in the bigger picture. They are not the key to solving the current crisis, and crisis it is. Political will and managerial expertise (not a senior nurse or a doc with a flair for admin) are needed.

Font22

FlutterinBantam wrote:

What Il'l have to say is this....

Where has Gleeson been living for the last..say.. 10 years

Where does he pay his taxes.... where does he pay most of his taxes?

I know it wasn't he who was involved but it makes a difference.

Regarding O'Shea...for jaysus sake....he can fix anything in his head..y'know once he hasn;t the power to do anything.We can all do that....

Another thing.... nobody mentions the intransigence of the consultants/INO...etc..


I would LOVE to know the absenteeisim figures for these hospitals..is it the same/worse/better than other comparable jurisdictions?

Nobody mentions this... Hmmmm ...wonder why...

Just wondering.......are u suggesting Brendan Gleeson hasnt been living in Ireland for the last few years??
Cause if your right I've been saying hello to someone I thought was Brendan Gleeson!

Saintly

Saintly wrote:

What difference does it make?? Anyone is entitled to make a comment on the healthservice, particularly if their family members have had direct experience of it.

True, but his comments were hardly searing analyses of the health service. He said 'Michael Martin screwed the place from the time he went in to the time he left' which is an extremely serious allegation to make and a very personal comment. If he challenges character, he should expect a like response - one could wonder whether Mr. Gleeson could have put his hand in his own pocket rather than expecting John O'Shea and GOAL to save the day for example. Are times that tough in the movie business, or was it cheaper to foist his mother into public care and then act surprised and give out because of the inadquacies of it?

Font22

To be honest Conor74, the fact that Brendan Gleeson may or may not have money has nothing to do with this topic. The fact is he made an observation and voiced his opinion. I'm not saying that everything he said was correct or particularly elegant etc, but his personal finance standing shouldnt really enter the equation.

Font22

Font22 wrote:

To be honest Conor74, the fact that Brendan Gleeson may or may not have money has nothing to do with this topic. The fact is he made an observation and voiced his opinion. I'm not saying that everything he said was correct or particularly elegant etc, but his personal finance standing shouldnt really enter the equation.

In general I would agree, but he implied that Michael Martin lined his own pockets at the expense of the health service or at least that he consciously messed up the service. Either is an outrageous assertion - his own grief does not justify it. And if he can give it, then he should be able to take it - not that Kenny was going to ask any tough questions of course.

HelterSkelter

Well I'll give you two things they could do straight away to free up more beds:
- Get the doctors to work at weekends
- Get the people who carry out tests (x-ray, MRI scans, etc) to work evenings & weekends.

I have been in hospital a good few times and there are a lot of people stuck there at weekends who are just waiting for scans to be done or who are well enough to go home but are waiting for a doctor to discharge them. Apart from surgicial teams there are absolutley no doctors on the wards at weekends. The hospital comes to a complete standstill. The last time I was in I was waiting on an MRI scan. I was waiting 10 DAYS for the scan!!! I was sitting in a bed feeling perfectly well, taking up this bed that someone else needed JUST WAITING FOR A BLOODY SCAN. The doctor didn't want to discharge me because I would then be waiting even longer as an out-patient for the scan. There were a few other guys in the ward with me waiting for days on end to have various scans/tests done. Their treatment could not continue until these tests were done. Again, more people unnecessarly taking up beds. They need to employ more people to carry out these tests in evenings and weekends. All the current staff are gone like a snot off a hot shovel at 5pm.

Font22

I completely agree HelterSkelter. Its a matter that has to be looked at by management.

Skitbra

Just a thought, but I pressume Brendan is very well off. Why the hell did he bring his mother to A&E. Surely he should've brought her over to the Blackrock Clinic and get things sorted for his mother there.

HelterSkelter

FlutterinBantam wrote:

What Il'l have to say is this....

Where has Gleeson been living for the last..say.. 10 years

Where does he pay his taxes.... where does he pay most of his taxes?

What has that got to do with ANYTHING????? It's his parents who were ill, HIS PARENTS, not him. They are Irish citizens living in this country. It's got fúck all to do with where he lives or where he pays his taxes.

And do you know what, if you are an EU citizen you are entitled to treatment in ANY EU country even if you don't live in that country.

Font22

He does live in Ireland!! He lives around the corner from me.

HelterSkelter

Saintly> Great post, at last someone speaking some sense. Sometimes I think 90% of people who post here are not in touch with reality at all. It's refreshing to reading a post by someone who knows what they are talking about.

I have a question for you, would it help things if the people who carry out tests (MRI, X-Ray, etc) in the hospital work evenings/weekends. If doctors work weekends? I have been an inpatient a few times taking up a bed for weeks on end just waiting to have tests done. As soon as the test is done I am discharged. Or waiting to see the doc on Monday morning to discharge me when he could have discharged me on Saturday.

shnaek

Great post, Saintly. My sister has a sticker on her bedroom door which says 'If you're not angry then you're not paying attention'. It appears to me that the public aren't paying attention, certainly in the area of healthcare. Like Saintly said - it isn't rocket science. All we have to do is look at countries with healthcare systems that work and copy them.
My Dad is thinking of going for surgery soon. I am pleading with him not to go. I am terrified of the hospitals here.
Back in the 70's the government brought up the prospect of an NHS style system here. Vested interests (constultants) ganged up against it and it was dropped.
Beneath the shamrock/harp of Ireland should be printed the slogan 'Vested Interests' - because it is for damn certain that they run the country, not the people. Shame on us for letting them away with it.
Health is the singular most important issue to any of us. How can we let our healthcare system get so bad?

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

Sometimes I think 90% of people who post here are not in touch with reality at all.

Because we disagree? I have two sisters who are doctors and a third who is a nurse. In terms of healthcare, they are pretty 'close to reality'. But they have better things to be doing than running around saying the sky has fallen in...

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

Because we disagree? I have two sisters who are doctors and a third who is a nurse. In terms of healthcare, they are pretty 'close to reality'. But they have better things to be doing than running around saying the sky has fallen in...

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing but to say "The simple fact is that we've never had it so good" when people are having a discussion about the state of our health service shows how out of touch of of reality you really are.

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing but to say "The simple fact is that we've never had it so good" when people are having a discussion about the state of our health service shows how out of touch of of reality you really are.

Yes, which is why I didn't say that. I said that health is like a range of issues, anyone can have a rant any time and the masses will applaud, when in fact in general we've never had it so good. There are of course individual problems in areas like in health, noone can say that the health service is ideal. I'm not arguing that. But anyone who makes comments like 'a baboon could run it' is more out of touch with reality than you or I.

Deleted User wrote:

A load of self publicising crap. That rant could have been given at any time, 1936, 1956, 1976, 2006, and about any issue, health, education, transport, and an audience like the late late's would lap it up. There is nothing safer than saying something like 'the country is a mess' - everyone will nod their head.

The simple fact is that we've never had it so good -that's not to say things are great, just that they have not been better - but moaning is so much easier than expecting anyone to compare 2006 with, say, 1986 and looking at cold hard facts about the economy or employment or the infrastructure or the North or any of a range of issues...

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

Yes, which is why I didn't say that. I said that health is like a range of issues, anyone can have a rant any time and the masses will applaud, when in fact in general we've never had it so good. There are of course individual problems in areas like in health, noone can say that the health service is ideal. I'm not arguing that. But anyone who makes comments like 'a baboon could run it' is more out of touch with reality than you or I.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. We are discussing the bad health service. Are you trying to say that because there are so many good things about the country that we should not complain about what is bad????

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. We are discussing the bad health service. Are you trying to say that because there are so many good things about the country that we should not complain about what is bad????

We are discussing Brendan Gleeson's rant. Are you saying that, because there are problems with the health service, comments like 'a baboon could run it' and 'Michael Martin screwed the system' are acceptable or valid?

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

We are discussing Brendan Gleeson's rant. Are you saying that, because there are problems with the health service, comments like 'a baboon could run it' and 'Michael Martin screwed the system' are acceptable or valid?

It started with discussing his rant but went on to be a discussion complaining about the health service, in particular A&E Depts. I agree that his comment of 'a baboon could run it' is not valid but the point is he was expressing the frustration the ordinary man & woman feels about the whole situation. Do you really expect Brendan Gleeson or any other celeb to stand up on the late late show and tell us how to solve the problems when the people who put themselves forward to do this job (Brendan Drumm, Mary Harney, etc) can't even manage it??? He is entitled to complain about the system, as am I and anybody else and it is the responsibility of the people we elect to address these complaints and fix the problems.

You said:

The simple fact is that we've never had it so good -that's not to say things are great, just that they have not been better - but moaning is so much easier than expecting anyone to compare 2006 with, say, 1986 and looking at cold hard facts about the economy or employment or the infrastructure or the North or any of a range of issues...

That seems to me that you are saying we shouldn't be complaining about the health service because overall things are better now than in 1986. Yes or No?

lostexpectation

HelterSkelter wrote:

That seems to me that you are saying we shouldn't be complaining about the health service because overall things are better now than in 1986. Yes or No?

I hate this arguement, there is such a thing as things growing too fast, and ireland is it, it should be called the celtic cheetah.

HelterSkelter

HelterSkelter wrote:

That seems to me that you are saying we shouldn't be complaining about the health service because overall things are better now than in 1986. Yes or No?

No, everything is subject to constructive criticism, or perhaps even deconstructive criticism. Nothing is above comment or complaint. But not ranting and raving and saying Third World charities should be brought in. Many here have criticised the system but in a far more lucid and constructive fashion to Gleeson.

shnaek

Deleted User wrote:

Many here have criticised the system but in a far more lucid and constructive fashion to Gleeson.

Perhaps that's why Gleeson has caused such a storm. People don't respond to lucid and constructive debate. They do respond to passion, and that is probably why Gleeson has stirred up this debate, which has to be a good thing.

Mezcita

My job involves hanging around A&E departments while product trials are conducted. Gleeson has a point. The sheer level of chaos and suffering throughout these A&E departments in Ireland is pretty harrowing. Nothing against the staff who all seem to be working their rear ends off but seeing people suffer in this way, particularly the elderly is nothing short of disgraceful.

Fair play to Gleeson. He is having a good old rant but as someone else pointed out, his fame would actually cause people to sit up and take notice.

lukeUCD

i usaully just look at boards nvr reply to threads but seeing some peoples response to brendan gleeson i had to, how anybody can attack him over the what he said is a disgrace in my opinion, that wasnt a rant or sumthg for publicity that was a man who was p***ed of with the A&E situation and he was right(and has the right) to say what he said.

the A&E situation in ireland is nothing short of a disgrace, the goverment could well afford to fix it if they didnt waste so much money on other thgs(neverending tribunals, paddy's day visits to america and so on). what this boils down to is that any goverment minister would nvr survive in a normal job because in a normal you have people to answer to who wouldn't take the kind of crap excuses these jokers dish out

i for one am very proud of brendan gleesons comments

lukeUCD

lukeUCD wrote:

the goverment could well afford to fix it if they didnt waste so much money on other thgs(neverending tribunals, paddy's day visits to america and so on).

Well, as you raise it, what could the money spent on a flight to America for Patrick's Day have done to the health service in Ireland? Should all flights everywhere, say to London for talks on Norn Iron, be axed? Perhaps they could take the ferry, or maybe you'd row them across? Or maybe you'd prefer life without the Tribunals, all those people whining about planning and Hepatitis and child abuse? It would be so much cheaper if they took their abuse and saved us all a few shekels. Because clearly you believe more money would sort out all the problems in the health service...

lukeUCD

theres a simple bad reason why thgs go bad in this country conor 74, bad management and its back to the goverment again, no i dont disagree to trbunals about child abuse i disagree with the likes of the catholic church escaping the bills left after these tribunals and bertie stepping in saying "ah sure will get this", i disagree with the amount of money that was spent in the luas, how people who work on o'conell st are on a daily rate and not a fixed contract, the flights to america are only a small example of waste, look at the spire 2 million wasted, all these things add up, the port tunnel how they dont hang there heads in shame for that one

Ruu_Old

fischerspooner wrote:

I'm just glad I have no sick relatives in hospital right now. But you have to ask yourself what the hell our government do with the money they get.

Spending it on themselves, nice new cars and a fancy jet for them to fly around in, oh and dont forget the holidays they go on :mad:

Deleted User

LukeUCD, you've completely avoided my questions and decided to muddy the waters by bringing in the Spire, the Luas and the Port Tunnel, and some makey uppy conversation you dreamt up involving the Taoiseach and the Church. Let's at least try and keep this away from the realms of your fanstasies and imagination.

I'll ask them again.

Deleted User wrote:

what could the money spent on a flight to America for Patrick's Day have done to the health service in Ireland? Should all flights everywhere, say to London for talks on Norn Iron, be axed? Perhaps they could take the ferry, or maybe you'd row them across? Or maybe you'd prefer life without the Tribunals, all those people whining about planning and Hepatitis and child abuse? It would be so much cheaper if they took their abuse and saved us all a few shekels. Because clearly you believe more money would sort out all the problems in the health service...

You rasied a suggestion that flights to the USA were wasting money that could have been better spent elsewhere. Now you can either stand over that claim or I'll treat you as I treat Gleeson, just someone having a rant and not contributing one whit to the issue.