Recommend a handgun!!

Vegeta

Hi all my brother is very interested in getting a hand gun, he has been shooting in one form or another for 22 years. He has his heart set on a beretta but before he goes off spending a fortune on a monitored alarm, club membership and then the gun itself, i was wondering could any of you make any suggestions on a good all round hand gun/pistol.

The gun will be used mainly for target shooting, we live in clare so he is thinking of joining the fermoy club as i think it is the closest to us. Here is the big but, he is also going to put down on the license application that it will be used to humanely dispatch deer.

I was thinking a 9mm but other than that i don't know. He wants a beretta but are they a reliable gun, do they cost a fortune, what would you recommend for the above jobs

Sparks

Sounds like you're trying to get a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none affair Veg. Can't speak as to the shooting deer application, but I'd recommend a .22lr pistol for target shooting in fermoy to start with. There's too much to learn if he's not been shooting pistol beforehand to be learning on a pistol where every trigger pull costs fifty cents and up

Besides which, sourcing .22lr pistols and ammo has less complication associated with it right now.

Myself, I'd suggest something like an IZH-35 (either the Baikal original or the Feinwerkbau or Walther versions). If he's not really into the precision part of the sport though, something like a Ruger might be a better choice. And if he wants to practise so he can get a fullbore pistol later, maybe something like a CZ Kadet/Sig Mosquito would be a better idea.

Vegeta

well not really looking for a jack of all trades, it'll be more a beginner target pistol to be honest but it'll have to be capable of dispatching deer also as this is one of the main reasons he wants it.

Thanks for the suggestions S

seamusgi4szw

If I may suggest a Hammerli x-esse sport in .22.
I shoot a Hammerli 208s and a number of members in the club have x esse's and have never known a problem with their products.
I agree with Sparks, if he is not going to shoot practical but will probably shoot precission then a .22 is the best choice for a variety of reasons including, access to cheap ammo, easy to explain to your super why you want it, lots of clubs to shoot in etc. As for humanely shooting deer with a handgun, ---- bull s--t. :mad:
Best of luck
Seamus

Vegeta

seamusgi4szw wrote:

If I may suggest a Hammerli x-esse sport in .22.
I shoot a Hammerli 208s and a number of members in the club have x esse's and have never known a problem with their products.
I agree with Sparks, if he is not going to shoot practical but will probably shoot precission then a .22 is the best choice for a variety of reasons including, access to cheap ammo, easy to explain to your super why you want it, lots of clubs to shoot in etc. As for humanely shooting deer with a handgun, ---- bull s--t. :mad:
Best of luck
Seamus

Thanks for the advice on the pistols

what do u mean by the last comment, i see no problem with humanely ending a deers life with a hand gun after it has been shot with a .270 round but has not died. Well maybe you'd rather i arm wrestled him to death :rolleyes:

scout

now that would be interesting to see why should you have the advantage:p

Vegeta

scout wrote:

now that would be interesting to see why should you have the advantage:p

they've got no arms, so it would be quite one sided

scout

have you ever seen them clash heads?

the hoofs etc...

Vegeta

scout wrote:

have you ever seen them clash heads?

the hoofs etc...

have never seen them butt heads while out hunting(have seen it on tv) but have heard them calling out at dusk and they sound like lions.

To be honest i think a hand gun is the easiest way to prevent injury to myself and more importantly to put an end to excess suffering of such beautiful animals.

Always the hand gun would be a last resort, every time i go hunting deer i strive to improve my field craft so eventually i will not need to shoot them twice as one shot (from the deer rifle) will be all that is needed.

Sparks

seamusgi4szw wrote:

As for humanely shooting deer with a handgun, ---- bull s--t. :mad:

'Tis a legal requirement in Germany, don't forget...

Rew

Sparks wrote:

'Tis a legal requirement in Germany, don't forget...

and vets can get handgun licences for this as well cant they?

TomBeckett

I would go for a H&K USP in 9mm or .45
Classic gun and very reliable:D www.H&K.de/usp

sidneyreilly

seamusgi4szw wrote:

If I may suggest a Hammerli x-esse sport in .22.
I shoot a Hammerli 208s and a number of members in the club have x esse's and have never known a problem with their products.:)

Have to agree! Lovely pistol to shoot:) €700 or so for top of the range as imported by your local dealer.




As for humanely shooting deer with a handgun, ---- bull s--t. :mad:
Best of luck
Seamus [/QUOTE]
Most of the humane killers are in .32 acp but are on permit not firearms cert.
Having said that I know one guy got a licence on the strenght of it in north dublin, but would only give him a .22!!!!! Hard to see it humanely dispatch a 20 stone stag!

Rovi

sidneyreilly wrote:

Having said that I know one guy got a licence on the strenght of it in north dublin, but would only give him a .22!!!!! Hard to see it humanely dispatch a 20 stone stag!

Well, with a .22 (rifle), I'll pretty much guarantee a first shot kill on a 100 stone cow.
We're talking about applying the coup de grace here, not stalking and taking a deer with a handgun.

That said, I'd rather do it with something in 9mm or .38/.357 with a nice expanding bullet.

Is there anyone selling hollow-point/expanding handgun ammo here, or is that going too far from the 'target shooting' for which the vast majority of handgun licences are issued?

.

Rovi

Back on topic-
Handguns are very 'personal' items, for want of a better word.
Whatever your brother decides on Vegeta, it's essential that he tries a few out before spending money.

If someone hasn't used handguns before, they're surprisingly variable in size, fit, ease of use, etc. Everyone is different, and a gun that falls naturally to hand for me may be impossibly awkward for you. All kind of things make a difference- the size and shape of your hands, length and thickness of fingers and thumbs, digital dexterity, etc. Some guns have thick grips, others may be too thin; safety catches and slide releases may be easy or hard to reach and operate; is the shooter left handed?

The only place I know of with a selection of club guns is Hilltop in Wicklow, which is a fair old step from you in Clare, but better to spend a day and a few bob trying out a variety of guns than dropping decent money on a gun that might turn out to be a disappointment, in my opinion.

.

macnas

Recommonded pistol, a Para LDA HiCap Limited 9.

For dispatching deer, a Buck Zipper.

Riggser

Rovi wrote:

Back on topic-
Handguns are very 'personal' items, for want of a better word.
Whatever your brother decides on Vegeta, it's essential that he tries a few out before spending money.

If someone hasn't used handguns before, they're surprisingly variable in size, fit, ease of use, etc. Everyone is different, and a gun that falls naturally to hand for me may be impossibly awkward for you. All kind of things make a difference- the size and shape of your hands, length and thickness of fingers and thumbs, digital dexterity, etc. Some guns have thick grips, others may be too thin; safety catches and slide releases may be easy or hard to reach and operate; is the shooter left handed?

The only place I know of with a selection of club guns is Hilltop in Wicklow, which is a fair old step from you in Clare, but better to spend a day and a few bob trying out a variety of guns than dropping decent money on a gun that might turn out to be a disappointment, in my opinion.

.

I couldn't agree more. You reading my mind again Rovi?

KerryShooter

I heard alot of bad things about the Beretta M9 / 92F, from a mate in the states, apparently the Italian ones can have a weakness in the steel, can't cope with alot of the hotter 9mm ammo, could be American bravardo ours is better than theirs sort of thing,

Sparks

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm

KerryShooter

Nice link, my American friend has been vindicated, you would't want to go buy a surplus one then..

Sparks

Why not? Read the conclusions:

The Beretta M9/92 pistol has been in service with our military for almost 20 years now. After the production problems documented previously were addressed, the pistol proved to be mechanically sound and reliable, enduring hundreds of thousands of rounds with little trouble provided proper maintenance was supplied. A redesign in the locking block of the M9 pistol made changes to that important piece less frequent, causing the pistol to require even less time at the armorer’s bench.

Few military sidearms have proven themselves to be as good a weapon as the M9 has turned out to be, despite the gun shop gossip to the contrary.

It wouldn't be my choice, but then it's not designed for anything I'd be doing. But if you wanted a 9mm, it seems like a decent enough choice to me.

Rew

There going back to a .45 handgun though.

Clare gunner

SF units are going back to the 45 .But then they can choose alot of their personal gear.The normal GIs are still stuck with the M9.Not my fav either.It seems too bulky for the mag capacity.

One trouble with the humane dispatch as a sole reason;is if the Super is clued in he could say "OK I'll grant you a handgun permit allright.For a .25 cal derringer as that is really enough for a coup de grace gun!!"
This is apprently another arguement showing now up in the UK with the stalkers winning the right back to own handguns.Soooo it would behove you Veg to have another "good reason" to back up the humane killer.Just in case your local Super is abit more with it than mine.
A good starter gun would be INMHO a Browning Hi power 9mm,or a copy of it made by a myriad of countries.reliable,relatively cheap in surplus guns,plenty of parts to customise it,and will accept a .22lr kit.Will eat some cruddy ammo as well.

jaycee

Ditto what Rovi said...

It's amazing how different makes and calibres feel ..

IMHO ..A Glock ..in 9mm ..will kick more and therefore be harder to control and
be accurate with than a 1911 ..in .45

Strange but true.. !

Try as many different makes and calibres as you can before spending any money ..It's really a case of finding out what "fit's" you best .
You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes in size 9.. just because a buddy said they fitted him . Course not .. you'd try on lots of different sizes first .
Same advice applies to picking a handgun for target shooting.

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

One trouble with the humane dispatch as a sole reason;is if the Super is clued in he could say "OK I'll grant you a handgun permit allright.For a .25 cal derringer as that is really enough for a coup de grace gun!!"

And if it will do the job, what's the problem?

Vegeta

jaycee wrote:

Ditto what Rovi said...

It's amazing how different makes and calibres feel ..

IMHO ..A Glock ..in 9mm ..will kick more and therefore be harder to control and
be accurate with than a 1911 ..in .45

Strange but true.. !

Try as many different makes and calibres as you can before spending any money ..It's really a case of finding out what "fit's" you best .
You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes in size 9.. just because a buddy said they fitted him . Course not .. you'd try on lots of different sizes first .
Same advice applies to picking a handgun for target shooting.

I agree with what you guys are saying its just difficult to try before he buys down here in clare, was lookin to get a few opinions so i could tell him what calibre and brand to go lookin for. Anyone ever heard of Tanfoglio pistols

Clare gunner

Used and fired both of them 9mm Glock and 45 1911.The 1911 kicks more,and it's grip isnt as ergonomic as the Glocks.The Glock in 45 ACP,that kicks.
Sparks,
Of course it will do the job,but it might limit you solely to that type of gun.In other words humane dispatch doesnt require a 9mm Glock,which can also be used for practical pistol,target shooting,etc.So if you want somthing more than two shots it would be prudent to say you want it for another type of shooting as well.

Tangiflino,is basically the CZ guns made in Italy.Made ther due to some thing in the 70s about embargoes from weapons from communist countries being imported to the West,which didnt apply to Italy.They became a big gun on the bodygaurd circut due to FN having some major quality control problems in the 70s/80s,and are still considerd a pros choice.All in all a pretty good solid gun.
Apart from price and finish not much of a difference between the CZ or Tanglifino.

babybundy

at least do it in style an eagle .5

Sparks

What on earth would you use a handcannon like that for though?

KerryShooter

As far as i remember Desert Eagle .50 AE weighs about 8.5lbs & has an 8 shot mag, why not just get a rifle or a shotgun loaded with slugs

jaycee

Hi CG

Used and fired both of them 9mm Glock and 45 1911.The 1911 kicks more,and it's grip isnt as ergonomic as the Glocks.

I fired both too... So I guess this is all about perceived recoil...
The Glock felt very "Snappy" (a faster recoil action) where the 1911
had a thump to it ..but more of a push back than a snap.

Perhaps the 1911 fitted my hand better and I therefore felt it was easier to control. Just go's to show how important "Hands on" testing ie ..eh.?

Clare gunner

jaycee wrote:

Hi CG



I fired both too... So I guess this is all about perceived recoil...
The Glock felt very "Snappy" (a faster recoil action) where the 1911
had a thump to it ..but more of a push back than a snap.

Perhaps the 1911 fitted my hand better and I therefore felt it was easier to control. Just go's to show how important "Hands on" testing ie ..eh.?

Hi JC,
Fact!I have big hands,so maybe that has somthing to do with it,I just absorb the recoli of 9mm in my hands.What you describe in the 9mm Glock I find in the 45.But most of the 45 I have shot are bog std 1911 designs.Some say putting a spur or mid finger grip guide ,removes that problem?
Get your 9mm yet???

KerryShooter

Anybody tried the Norinco 1911's ??

macnas

How about a 9mm 1911?

Rovi

macnas wrote:

How about a 9mm 1911?

HERETIC!
BLASPHEMER!

That's known in certain circles as 'Set to stun'

.

KerryShooter

Wouldn't a 9mm 1911 just be a browning Hi-Power ??

SteveS

macnas wrote:

How about a 9mm 1911?

There is just something wrong about a 9mm 1911. HOw about a 1911 in .38 super...or 10mm?

Clare gunner

The Norinco 1911,is a cheap and cheerful copy of the old GI issued 1911.Plenty of steel in it,and all the faults my dad mentioned when he was issued one in the US navy in WW2.Things like;slide rattle,bushing rattle,barn door latch trigger,rudimentry sights,stiff saftey.As my old man said ;a great gun for getting officers killed. It does go BANG every time the trigger is pulled tho.It is a great gun for a platform for modifications into a duty weapon,race gun,home defence or just leaving plain for service match shooting or those who want a parkerized GI Joe .45. You can get it in a few different configs as well, short,and match type as well.Or just buy an Auto Ordinance corporation of New York,[famous for making the Thompson SMG]45 1911 and have somthing just as on par or cruddy as the Norinco.They are the bottom leauge of the plain GI 45s.
Nope the browning hi power and the 1911 have one thing in common.They are both Brownings designs.The hi power was Brownings last and some say greatest pistol design.Otherwise as different as chalk and cheese.

A 1911 in 9mm
Let such an abomination be cast into the sea along with all who profess to favour or own such a work of the Devil.For they be unclean and blaspheme the design of the 1911.For truely I say onto thee.The 1911 doth not function well in any other calibre other than the 45ACP and ii's kin.

Rovi

KerryShooter wrote:

As far as i remember Desert Eagle .50 AE weighs about 8.5lbs & has an 8 shot mag, why not just get a rifle or a shotgun loaded with slugs

According to world.guns.ru, it's about 1.7kg (3.75lbs) empty and holds 7 rounds of .50AE.

I particularly like this quote-

General belief of the Desert Eagle being used by various Special Operation forces so far found absolutely NO proofs. Indeed, for the price and weight of this empty gun one can easily have two pistols like Glock 17 or SIG-Sauer P228 plus good supply of ammunition; furthermore, these pistols will be much more reliable in severe combat conditions, and provide much bigger magazine capacity. Add to it severe recoil in its larger calibers (especially .50AE), huge muzzle blast and super-loud sound, and you'll see why only Hollywood warriors use this monster as a combat weapon. In real life, if you need a weapon more potent than a typical combat pistol (such as Glock or SIG-Sauer or Beretta or any other respectable model chambered for caliber between 9mm and .45ACP), you shall get either a rifle or submachine gun, period.

Says it all, really. :rolleyes:

.

macnas

Clare gunner wrote:

A 1911 in 9mm
Let such an abomination be cast into the sea along with all who profess to favour or own such a work of the Devil.For they be unclean and blaspheme the design of the 1911.For truely I say onto thee.The 1911 doth not function well in any other calibre other than the 45ACP and ii's kin.

Be Tempted

Babble

Sparks wrote:

What on earth would you use a handcannon like that for though?

He would use it for punching holes in paper just like you do:p
Of course they would be huge expensive holes accompanied by a large ball of flame. It might be cheaper to shoot at your wallet with a .22lr pistol
This is from the pumpkin shoot last year. the ring of fire is some thing unique to DE's in .50


My suggestion would be to get something in .22lr that also has a 9mm or bigger cousin. Sig Mosquito<Sig P226, Glock with .22 drop in kit, CZ kadet etc
Then when you get bored with .22 (and you will, unless its a true target pistol) You flip it and get the bigger caliber.

As far as 9mm vs .45acp well that debate is going to run for a long time.
I've met a few PMC's from the sandbox recently who only use 9mm holopoints

SteveS

Back on topic-
Handguns are very 'personal' items, for want of a better word.
Whatever your brother decides on Vegeta, it's essential that he tries a few out before spending money.

I can't agree more. After months of research, I bought a Glock. I just didn't like the odd grip angle and ended up selling it. I think they are good pistols, but they just don't suit me. Additionally, if I am shooting a SA gun, I like some kind of safety. I know that Glocks are technically not SA, but I just prefer an external hammer.

I have a Beretta 92 and it is a decent gun. They make a .22 conversion kit and I have also seen a few .40 cal conversion kits.

Clare gunner

macnas wrote:

Be Tempted

Get behind me Satan!!!Tempt me not with thy 9mm DA Para Ordinance.:D

As for the Desert Eagle being used in combat.This came about years ago when the Desert Eagle was first produced and sold in the now wussy
.357 magnum.It was advertised as being used by Isreali Special forces.
Calibre would be OK,for a combat round.It would certainly be a manstopper.But was it ever std issue to the SF units?Or just a tester,which was then used as a advertiseing campain?

Rew

My club has seen a huge shift away from Glocks. Most people bought 17's thought they were grand then a few people bought Sigs and H&K's. 5 rounds through the other pistols and the Glocks were all up for sale...

jaycee

the Glocks were all up for sale...

Would that qualify for the description .. "Tupperware Party"

Riggser

I like Glocks.

Babble

There's nothing wrong with blocks.......er I mean glocks.
I find them a little square but they can be pretty tough puppys.
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=40
This guy has put 150K rounds through his G21 and tossed it out of an airplane etc and it still works

Vegeta

Ya see the thing is right as you all know getting a pistol is not a cheap or easy task, he will probably have to get the eircom monitored alarm, a specific safe for it and join a pistol club, all of which are not cheap.

I want him to get a .22lr as i think it would be great for the target aspect and dispatch a deer from the sort of range needed, plus it'd be cheaper with cheaper ammo.

He wants a 9mm and is of the opinion why pay for a safe, alarm and club membership to get a pistol in a calibre he doesn't even want.

Also if my brother ever wanted to change his gun is there a place that takes second hand pistols or are you stuck with it for ever

Clare gunner

Rew wrote:

My club has seen a huge shift away from Glocks. Most people bought 17's thought they were grand then a few people bought Sigs and H&K's. 5 rounds through the other pistols and the Glocks were all up for sale...

REW
If they are flogging them off.I am in the market for one.Save me a load of bother importing mine.Bog std Glock 17 9mm please,hi cap mags,tri dot sights,or tritium sights a bonus,can have the weaver front rail,but not necessary.Am willing to pay US Blue Book of gun value price in Euros.
Or E gun "buy it now "prices,for the same model.That is in around the 400/500 Euro mark.Sorry guys,that is the current buying price for a NEW Glock in a dealer,outside "rippoff Ireland"
PM me if anyone is intrested.

Rew

Clare gunner wrote:

REW
If they are flogging them off.I am in the market for one.

Ill keep an ear out but the last one shifted for about a hundred more then what your willing to pay AFAIK. 2nd hand market in pistols is pretty strong due to all the import hassles.

babybundy

nice pics of the glocks it looks like wat some of the sandbags do to weapons