Broadband - Neighbours have it, why can't I?

techno

Hello All,

I'd greatly appreciate any help with the following.
I tried to get broadband through Eircom but have been refused because my line is failing despite the fact that the exchange is enabled.
What's confusing is this........several of my neighbours lines are also showing up as a fail on the eircom web site, however, these neighbours actually have broadband! I've phoned Eircom, and the broadband desk can't seem to explain this.........any suggestions as to how I can get connected

CuLT

Have a lot of equipment connected to your phone line?

techno

Hello Cult,

Thanks for the prompt reply. Fax machine and 2 phone extensions.

Do you think this might be causing the problem.

Neighbours would have the same though!

CuLT

Fax machines can cause enough of an extra drain on the line for it to be failing the eircom line tests (which are done on a monthly basis and then stored in a database to be retrieved whenever requested, or were last time I checked). These tests are rather delicate and aren't reflective of what line can actually handle DSL.
The test results can change on a monthly basis simply based on whether you were on the phone at the time the test was performed or how much equipment you had plugged in at the time.

If you can do without the extra fax machines and maybe one phone for about a month you might be able to pass the test and then order BB, or if you happen to know an eircom engineer who will test your line directly after you plug out any and all equipment for a few minutes, all the better.

techno

Thanks Cult.

Any idea as to why three of my neighbours lines are also showing as a fail...........but yet they all have broadband?

seamus

They may be with a different provider? Some of the other providers ignore the line tests.

It's really just a matter of shouting loud enough. Don't accept "your line fails" as an answer.

techno

Hi Seamus,

Hope you're keeping well. Which of the providers do you think may ignore the line tests?

Most of those I spoke to seem to rely on Eircom to first pass the line.

In my case, two neighbours are with Eircom while the other is with Digiweb. (also depending on Eircom to pass the line) Smart are not supplying to my area.

kaizersoze

None of the suppliers (Eircom resellers that is) ignore the line test and they will not take an order for BB unless your line shows a pass on the Eircom database.
My line changes from pass to fail every other month and I have BB for 3 years and many others do aswell so it's not unusual.
The things that may cause your line to fail generally don't prevent BB from working once it is installed and this shows how rediculous the tests are.
Follow Cults advice and clear your line of all except a normal corded phone.
Go to www.netsource.ie and check your number. It should give you the date of the last test so you'll know roughly when the next test will be done and have your line ready.

techno

Thanks Kaizersoze,

I've checked with netsource and I'll try to keep the line clear for next months test.

humaxf1

I tried a number test for my house phone number and it failed. I then tried a test on another phone number coming into the same house and it passed.

Difference is, the first number is the original line and is approx 30yrs old. Whereas, the second line is only about 5yrs old. Depends on the physical condition of the copper wires plus (maybe) the setion to which the line is connected in the exchange. Although they say an exchange is enabled, not all parts are enabled possibly.

Sapele

We had a washing machine leak a few years back. Not long after the leak the internet connection started to go steadily downhill. After all the normal tests it was discovered that even though the leak was behind a wall it had corroded the copper wires on the main phone socket out of the house, giving us a very unstable line. Just something to watch out for.

techno

Thanks humaxf1 and Sapele.

This is the first time I've used boards.ie and I'm impressed with the amount of people willing to lend a hand.
I've got Eircom doing a test on my line at the moment so we'll see what they come up with. Lets hope its good, otherwise I'm stuck with 33KBps speed forever!

dlofnep

seamus wrote:

They may be with a different provider? Some of the other providers ignore the line tests.

It's really just a matter of shouting loud enough. Don't accept "your line fails" as an answer.

You're way off there Seamus. No ISP would "ignore" a line test. otherwise, they'd be attempting to provide people with broadband that could not have it, or at least have a stable service. There would be thousands calling their support line either complaining about the service or wondering why there broadband will not work.

There are reasons for distance limits - All ISP's adhere to these. When you work for an ISP, your views will change on this matter.

As far as the original poster asked - If your line fails, tough. Deal with it. You're not being provided with broadband for a reason. No magic way out of it. If they were to supply you with broadband on a long line, you'd be complaining on here a month later about how poor your service is. Try request a lower broadband speed. Speak to the provisions department of the ISP and ask them is there any chance of you getting a lower speed broadband service.

kaizersoze

dlofnep wrote:

As far as the original poster asked - If your line fails, tough. Deal with it. You're not being provided with broadband for a reason. No magic way out of it. If they were to supply you with broadband on a long line, you'd be complaining on here a month later about how poor your service is. Try request a lower broadband speed. Speak to the provisions department of the ISP and ask them is there any chance of you getting a lower speed broadband service.

WTF are you raving about? Distance is not the problem. His neighbours have BB. Will you re-read his post FFS.

techno wrote:

I've got Eircom doing a test on my line at the moment so we'll see what they come up with. Lets hope its good, otherwise I'm stuck with 33KBps speed forever!

If that's your dial up speed then it looks like your line is split (pair gained).
If thats the case, your chances of Eircom removing the splitter are slim.

The Real B-man

Line Quality i just had to get mine redone as it was rotting in the ground thank god it was eircoms problem! dial up has never being better & phone calls are crystal clear no more annoying buzzing so it could be your line

dub45

techno wrote:

Hello All,

I'd greatly appreciate any help with the following.
I tried to get broadband through Eircom but have been refused because my line is failing despite the fact that the exchange is enabled.
What's confusing is this........several of my neighbours lines are also showing up as a fail on the eircom web site, however, these neighbours actually have broadband! I've phoned Eircom, and the broadband desk can't seem to explain this.........any suggestions as to how I can get connected

Many people who have bb and who test their line find that it fails the test - the presence of bb on the line must cause a fail on the monthly test.

This point is often commented on here. So the fact that your neighbours lines may fail the test and still have bb is not in any way a reflection of the actual quality of thier lines.

dlofnep

kaizersoze wrote:

WTF are you raving about? Distance is not the problem. His neighbours have BB. Will you re-read his post FFS.

I work for an ISP. Just because his neighbour is eligible does not mean he is. I have seen it on hundreds of occasions whilst provisioning lines. how many lines have you provisioned broadband on? What.. none? Exactly. Infact, one guy had two lines and one line was suitable for broadband but the other wasn't out in his back garage. Distance is very much a factor.. Infact, other than line type, it is the ONLY initial factor when provisioning.

When you work for an ISP, then we'll talk - Mr. I post on the internet so I know everything.

nuttz

Hello Poster,
Contrary to what other posters have said, all providers of broadband work off of the same database, if the database says you are within or close to the mileage limit to your local exchange, your line will be tested to see how much noise is on the line(i.e. you get a line test).
The further you are from the exchange the more noise there will be (think of a long distance phone call, the quality isn't as good as a local call).
If your neighbours can get BB and you can't, it's probably because they are on a different exchange than you, or are that bit closer to the same exchange than you, (I don’t know off hand what the distance is 2-3 miles). You could insist that/pay Eircom to do a check from the pole outside your house, if that passes, the noise on the line is coming from connections in your house, you should be able to get BB, but it might be an idea to sort out the connections in your house.

kaizersoze

dlofnep wrote:

Mr. I post on the internet so I know everything.

Oooh! Good come back.

dlofnep

kaizersoze wrote:

Oooh! Good come back.

No, I believe the comeback was the paragraph beforehand where I proved that

Cabaal

dlofnep wrote:

Distance is very much a factor.. Infact, other than line type, it is the ONLY initial factor when provisioning.

When you work for an ISP, then we'll talk - Mr. I post on the internet so I know everything.

I find it sad that atleast BT in the UK have the sense to mark almost all lines as a "maybe" untill a order is placed and a engineer is dispatched to confirm 100% that a customer can't/can have DSL....perhaps eircom should take a leaf out of BT's book on this one instead of just saying flat out that a customer can't have BB purely on a line test

Although if a line is a "maybe" obviously it wouldn't be able to get 2MB or 1MB but it would be nice to see eircom advising that it "might" take a 512K line.....I suppose it shows that eircom are just not taking the whole thing of providing dsl in Ireland seriously.

techno

Lads, or Ladies,

Kaizersoze seems to be the only one who understands what I'm trying to explain...........I'll explain it again. I understand all about distance from the exchange, line quality etc but my point is this.........
My three neighbours who all have broadband have lines that show up AS A FAIL when you contact Eircom or put their numbers into the Eircom web page. As a result these people shouldn't be able to be provisioned by Eircom since they have failing lines. The only reason they got broadband was that they lobbied Eircom so often that someone in there caved in to the pressure.
Main point again lads..............the neighbours lines NEVER passed with Eircom.

techno

Cabaal,

Good points made, but like most other things, we're about 10 years behind the UK.
Another thing to mention here is that I'm looking for a service that I'm going to be paying for! I'm not getting it free!

zuma

techno wrote:

Cabaal,

Good points made, but like most other things, we're about 10 years behind the UK.
Another thing to mention here is that I'm looking for a service that I'm going to be paying for! I'm not getting it free!

Our telco network infrastructure is far more than 10 years behind the UK....but the cable high speed internet connections are being upgraded by Chello and the DSL isnt as bad as it was only a year ago(I had a 512k connection this time last year FFS now I have a 3M connection).

Saying that, DSL availibility is a disgrace and the prices are still too high....scarily high if you use eircoms 3Mbit package in comparison to its competitors!

Marianne Finucane and Matt Cooper love complaining about the joke that is DSL......mabye it might make Bertie act....doubtfull as our glorious Communications Minister wont even talk to Matt Cooper about it!!!

dub45

techno wrote:

Lads, or Ladies,

Kaizersoze seems to be the only one who understands what I'm trying to explain...........I'll explain it again. I understand all about distance from the exchange, line quality etc but my point is this.........
My three neighbours who all have broadband have lines that show up AS A FAIL when you contact Eircom or put their numbers into the Eircom web page. As a result these people shouldn't be able to be provisioned by Eircom since they have failing lines. The only reason they got broadband was that they lobbied Eircom so often that someone in there caved in to the pressure.
Main point again lads..............the neighbours lines NEVER passed with Eircom.

Do you know this for definite? And if so who did they lobby and why arent you loobying this person?

trevally

dlofnep wrote:

No, I believe the comeback was the paragraph beforehand where I proved that

Please answer this then as an ISP worker, my next door neighbour who is attached to my house (semmi detached) has the same age incoming line as mine, has BB & yet I cant get it, & I have a measly 26.4Kbps how frustrating is that.....Eircom rekon "its not a guaranteed service" & theyre not willing to change my incoming line to eliminate the possibility of it being faulty unless I pay €190. I have also tried all the other providers & they wont attempt to provide BB as the line test keeps failing. I also have a phone/fax & 2 other plugged in phones they may be a factor I dont know.:mad:

techno

To everyone who responded to my original message:

As well as posting my query here on boards.ie, I'd been in contact with Eircom by phone and e-mail on several occassions explaining my problem exactly as I did here.
Ironically while I was on here yesterday evening, I got a call from Eircom saying that they'd seen my e-mail I would have broadband WITHIN 2 WEEKS!

Thanks to all for your advice. I'll keep you posted as to how it goes from here.

Techno

kaizersoze

techno wrote:

To everyone who responded to my original message:

As well as posting my query here on boards.ie, I'd been in contact with Eircom by phone and e-mail on several occassions explaining my problem exactly as I did here.
Ironically while I was on here yesterday evening, I got a call from Eircom saying that they'd seen my e-mail I would have broadband WITHIN 2 WEEKS!

Thanks to all for your advice. I'll keep you posted as to how it goes from here.

Techno

Nice one.

Duiske

techno wrote:

I'll keep you posted as to how it goes from here.

Techno

Please do. Fair play for chasing this up with eircom . It should give hope to others.

techno

If anything helped me get broadband it was a tip I was given by one of my neighbours........she said I needed to kick some ass! When I told her that I had been kicking some ass, she said that either I wasn't kicking hard enough or else that I wasn't kicking the right ass..............moral of the ass kicking story...........find the name of someone as high up the ladder as possible in the company you're trying to deal with, contact them, then let them do the ass kicking for you! This seemed to work in my case!

Techno

techno

Thanks to all who gave me any assistance regarding broadband.

My line passed this evening and I have placed an order for broadband.

Thanks again,

Techo.

Stench Blossoms

techno wrote:

The only reason they got broadband was that they lobbied Eircom so often that someone in there caved in to the pressure.

Can i just say that this is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

A broadband order cannot be processed unless the line passes.

lucernarian

orla wrote:

Can i just say that this is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

A broadband order cannot be processed unless the line passes.

Not always true. I heard of a story of someone getting their line enabled when the line length was 5.1 km. The test automatically fails lines longer than 4.5 km (or attenuation of 54 dB I believe). ADSL was able to work on the long line.

Don't say that something is stupid unless you can prove it beyond doubt.

Stench Blossoms

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Don't say that something is stupid unless you can prove it beyond doubt.

I work in Eircom, and i cant tell you the is IMPOSSIBLE to put broadband on a line that is showing failed. The system won't allow it. So yes i do think its stupid.

dub45

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Not always true. I heard of a story of someone getting their line enabled when the line length was 5.1 km. The test automatically fails lines longer than 4.5 km (or attenuation of 54 dB I believe). ADSL was able to work on the long line.

Don't say that something is stupid unless you can prove it beyond doubt.

But equally can you prove your claim? 'I heard of a story of someone' sounds vague as vague can be.

techno

orla wrote:

I work in Eircom, and i cant tell you the is IMPOSSIBLE to put broadband on a line that is showing failed. The system won't allow it. So yes i do think its stupid.

Hello Orla,

Thanks for taking the time to post a reply. However, if you look at my original message you will see that this is the whole point I'm making. Three of my neighbours had broadband despite the fact that when their phone number was entered on the EIRCOM web site line test page.....the numbers were showing as a fail.....regularly......I explained this point to the Broadband section of Eircom and like you, the person I spoke to said that this was impossible..........However, when I asked her to check again, she said "Oh yes, I can see that this line has broadband traffic but I can't understand how" I was then put on hold while they went to get a supervisor and after a couple of seconds my call was disconnected....this happened three times!
Rest assured, if nobody in my area had broadband, I wouldn't be wasting my time trying for it. Nor would I be wasting my time here on boards. I will admit that it may be impossible for a order to be provisioned without the lines showing as a pass, but my neighbours must have been given a temporary pass for the order to put through!
Techno.

Stench Blossoms

techno wrote:

I will admit that it may be impossible for a order to be provisioned without the lines showing as a pass, but my neighbours must have been given a temporary pass for the order to put through!
Techno.

Lines pass and fail all the time. One month they could pass and the next they could fail. Obviously your neighbours passed at the time they processed the order.

You cannot be given a "temporary pass". I have seen it plenty of times that customers have broadband but there lines shows "fail", as i said the line obviously passed at the time of processing the order.

techno wrote:

However, when I asked her to check again, she said "Oh yes, I can see that this line has broadband traffic but I can't understand how"

Sorry but did your neighbours give you the right to use there numbers as examples? Only the account holder(s) are allowed access to their account.

I'm sorry but i find it hard to believe that someone in Eircom tested your neighbours account for you as this is a breech of confidentiality and calls are regulary recorded and listened to.

Yes you can check it yourself on the Eircom website but our systems are different showing a little more than "pass" or "unsuitable".

Spuddeeez

Hi there, I would like to point out an issue which may be why your phone line is failing for broadband. It may be because you (and a few of your neighbour's) phone connections are wired using the "carrier line" method. This is an old system where basically one strand of wire to the exchange was used to hook up 2 houses with telephone connections (and I have info. from a 'good' source that Eircom still implement this on some new connections).
If your house is wired in such a fashion you will NEVER be able to get a broadband connection (or ISDN for that matter) unless your connection to the exchange is re-wired (as far as I know)
If your're interested in how I 'discovered' this let me know and I'll gladly tell you the story.

Stench Blossoms

Spuddeeez wrote:

Hi there, I would like to point out an issue which may be why your phone line is failing for broadband. It may be because you (and a few of your neighbour's) phone connections are wired using the "carrier line" method. This is an old system where basically one strand of wire to the exchange was used to hook up 2 houses with telephone connections (and I have info. from a 'good' source that Eircom still implement this on some new connections).
If your house is wired in such a fashion you will NEVER be able to get a broadband connection (or ISDN for that matter) unless your connection to the exchange is re-wired (as far as I know)
If your're interested in how I 'discovered' this let me know and I'll gladly tell you the story.

Em, thats not any sort of secret. People on carrier lines know they are on carrier lines.

MunsterCycling

@Orla

Seems you need to speak to phil.nolan@eircom.net really should change to name of that company to €ircon... /sits back and waits for flames.../

Stench Blossoms

MunsterCycling wrote:

@Orla

Seems you need to speak to phil.nolan@eircom.net really should change to name of that company to €ircon... /sits back and waits for flames.../

Oh my god that is sooo funny! Its not like Eircom has never been called €ircon before :rolleyes:

Did you make that up yourself? Its very creative.

Spuddeeez

"People on carrier lines know they are on carrier lines" could you explain how one might "know" that one is on a carrier line? I would be very intersted to know that. I didn't know a thing about it until I ran into a problem which was due to such a connection type. Cheers. Eircom.net telephone supprt also did not offer this as an explaination. I found out from a different source more by coincidence.

MunsterCycling

Oh is that an €ircom corporate IP address your on... Hmm browsing in work???

Anyway you're now off the Subject matter in this forum

Stench Blossoms

Spuddeeez wrote:

"People on carrier lines know they are on carrier lines" could you explain how one might "know" that one is on a carrier line? I would be very intersted to know that. I didn't know a thing about it until I ran into a problem which was due to such a connection type. Cheers. Eircom.net telephone supprt also did not offer this as an explaination. I found out from a different source more by coincidence.

Ring 1901 and ask.

MunsterCycling wrote:

Oh is that an €ircom corporate IP address your on... Hmm browsing in work???

Anyway you're now off the Subject matter in this forum

Sorry but was there a point you were trying to prove here on this thread or were you just trying to be "a big shot" and look funny by saying €ircon?

I was trying to help the OP understand that sometimes lines fail after broadband has been applied.

Serious if you have nothing decent to contribute to this thread about the subject matter don't bother replying.

MunsterCycling

A customer should not be forced to ask for this infomation it shoudl be provided upfront and when the matter of a split line is discovered it sould be resolved by the telco who created the problem in the 1st place by not having any vision of the future of communications.

Fact remains that people are able to get BB even when their line fails by causing enough of a stir in EIRCOM to get the job done. ;P

Of course a bad line can always 'snap' on a windy night

Stench Blossoms

MunsterCycling wrote:

Fact remains that people are able to get BB even when their line fails by causing enough of a stir in EIRCOM to get the job done. ;P

Have you proof of this?

MunsterCycling

Take it have not read the posts in this forum or searched for similiar stories???

Please stop wasting of us 'Big Shots' (your words not mine) by posting if you haven't read the posts, anyway matter is null as its is an open secret that this is the way to make Eircom do its job.

Stench Blossoms

I asked did YOU have proof of this.

lucernarian

dub45 wrote:

But equally can you prove your claim? 'I heard of a story of someone' sounds vague as vague can be.

I can't, mainly because most of the corrospondence was through PM. It was some guy out in Lusk (I think) who got his line enabled even though it had attenuation of 61 dB. This would've shown up as a fail on the eircom system at the time yet he emailed Phil Nolan and someone else in eircom sorted out the problem for him.

The user's name was peterk19. I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning his username in this thread...

Does that count as proof, orla?

Duiske

TBC, how would I find out what the line attenuation actually is ? Would Eircom give me this information ? I am now in a somewhat similar situation to Techno, ie, neighbours both sides can get BB, but I can't. I have disconnected wireless phones, sky box and shortened cable distance to PC in the hope that it will help me pass this months line test. Is there anything else I can do ?

Blaster99

Perhaps stating the obvious, but the people who have managed to work around Orla/Biddy have done this by getting an engineer to punch in a "pass" in the test db based on actual ability to carry broadband.