Should the national anthem be sung 'as Bearla'?

murphaph

Alright, what say ye? The tune was originally written in english and most people who sing it at international matches don't speak fluent irish, so why sing one particular song in a language you don't understand? It actually sounds better in english IMO too. So, is it Soldiers Song or Amhran na bhFiann for you?

Soldiers are we
whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come
from a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the bearna baoil 2
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal;
'Mid cannon's roar and rifles' peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Sinne Fianna Fáil
Atá faoi gheall ag Éirinn,
Buíon dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chughainn,
Faoi mhóid bheith saor.
Sean-tír ár sinsear feasta
Ní fhágfar faoin tiorán ná faoin tráill
Anocht a théam sa bhearna baoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
Le gunna scréach faoi lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaig Amhrán na bhFiann.

projectmayhem

no.

smashey

Absolutely not. Anybody who sings it 'As Bearla' should be shot.:mad:

Basq

Nope - patriotic to sing it in our native language.

johnnyrotten

NO way Sheosaf

ilovemybrick

its a ridiculous suggestion.the national anthem is not only for international matches of soccer and rugby, it has nothing to do with those occasions. its is the official anthem only when it is sung in irish. and what makes you think it sounds better in english? where have you ever heard seventy odd thousand people singing it as béarla? ridiculous suggestion like i said.

Blackjack

No.

Lump

No

Brian017

No. I say half of the people don't know it as Berla so why confuse them even more?

netwhizkid

I would also be against this suggestion. I feel that it should be sung in Irish as in tying with tradition. Then again I have never heard it sung in English and reading the English script and hearing it are too very different things. Anyone out there know if the English version can be downloaded somewhere to listen to?

Brian017

netwhizkid wrote:

I would also be against this suggestion. I feel that it should be sung in Irish as in tying with tradition. Then again I have never heard it sung in English and reading the English script and hearing it are too very different things. Anyone out there know if the English version can be downloaded somewhere to listen to?

I have it somewhere I think, I'll have a look and e-mail it to you if you want.

The OP

No way. What a retarded concept.

netwhizkid

Brian017 wrote:

I have it somewhere I think, I'll have a look and e-mail it to you if you want.

PM sent.

murphaph

Ummm, I accept everyone's opinion, but how can you claim it to be 'the traditional way' or whatever when in fact the song was originally penned in the english language and intended to be sung in english? The scots sing flower of Scotland passionately in english, not in Gallic (which a small minority speak, same as irish in Ireland).

Wales is diffrent, proportionately far more welsh speakers in Wales than Irish speakers in ireland and in any case, Land of my Fathers was written in Welsh.

As a regular attendee at Landsdowne, I can say that many people don't sing at all and it's quite possible it's because they don't know the words and even if they did learn them, they have no real meaning to a non-native irish speaker.

Dave!

Yes.

</controversy>

Blackjack

murphaph wrote:

As a regular attendee at Landsdowne, I can say that many people don't sing at all and it's quite possible it's because they don't know the words and even if they did learn them, they have no real meaning to a non-native irish speaker.

Perhaps many of those not singing are from Northern Ireland?.

Heyes

Simple Answer ........................ NOT A CHANCE IN HELL

Ruu_Old

Irish all the way

Zaph

It should be sung in Irish, if only so we don't have to sing an anthem with the word "sireland" in it. However, I also think that it should be compulsorily taught in schools, both the words and their meaning. I know I was never taught it in school, nor were any of my siblings, and I'm pretty sure things haven't changed in that regard.

nesf

No, it sounds much better when sung in Irish. Plus the Irish version is slighly more PC...

netwhizkid

Listening to the English Version now, Thanks Brian017 for the email It is quite nice and pleasent to listen to. However I couldn't see it replacing Amhran Na Bhfiann, and the way people cry out a battle call of come on...Kerry....Cork....Dublin etc. At Munster Final's or All-Ireland's etc.

Brian017

zaph wrote:

It should be sung in Irish, if only so we don't have to sing an anthem with the word "sireland" in it. However, I also think that it should be compulsorily taught in schools, both the words and their meaning. I know I was never taught it in school, nor were any of my siblings, and I'm pretty sure things haven't changed in that regard.

I agree it should be compulsorily. Although I was taught it in school along with Song for Ireland and many other Irish songs.

Brian017

netwhizkid wrote:

Listening to the English Version now, Thanks Brian017 for the email It is quite nice and pleasent to listen to. However I couldn't see it replacing Amhran Na Bhfiann, and the way people cry out a battle call of come on...Kerry....Cork....Dublin etc. At Munster Final's or All-Ireland's etc.

No probs.

theCzar

nope

kittex

zaph wrote:

It should be sung in Irish, if only so we don't have to sing an anthem with the word "sireland" in it. However, I also think that it should be compulsorily taught in schools, both the words and their meaning. I know I was never taught it in school, nor were any of my siblings, and I'm pretty sure things haven't changed in that regard.

I'm thought it used to be compulsory in primary school. Everyone I know was taught it in school anyway, including the meaning.

I just think it sounds better in Irish. The only people you hear singing it in English are Celtic fans at Parkhead. To start singing it in English at this stage would be weird. And also very ironic. The anthem glorifies the Irish fight for freedom and identity - but hey, let's sing it in the language of our oppressors, because we can't be bothered learning it in our own tongue any more.

If people feel embarrassed that they don't know the words, or would like to know the meaning, there are ample places they can go and find out about it.
What if they handed out the lyrics at matches?

Civilian_Target

Why should we change our national anthem because some people are too lazy to learn the words?

I reckon about 10% of people, tops, can sing the thing though. I only learnt it because I didn't want to go abroad without being able to sing it after a few beers.

[EDIT] Also, i do not like the way the words were changed in the 40's while DeValera was in power. The original words were "Sinne laochra fáil", where the laochra is short for veterans of the war on independance, as opposed to the mythical Fianna.[/EDIT]

Tar.Aldarion

I think it sounds great in Irish. I quite like it.

Pherekydes

murphaph wrote:

The scots sing flower of Scotland passionately in english, not in Gallic (which a small minority speak, same as irish in Ireland).

I doubt if any Scotsman or woman speaks Gallic. A fair proportion speak Gaelic, though.

As to the original question, seeing as it's the Irish Anthem, perhaps it should be sung in Irish?

As regards % of native language speakers, it's 1.9% for Scotland, 21% for Wales and 42% for Ireland. Not sure about methodology, though.

murphaph

Civilian_Target wrote:

[EDIT] Also, i do not like the way the words were changed in the 40's while DeValera was in power. The original words were "Sinne laochra fáil", where the laochra is short for veterans of the war on independance, as opposed to the mythical Fianna.[/EDIT]

Actually it was "Sinne laochra Gaedheal", or 'we the heroes of Ireland'. So people are actually singing a corrupted version of the translated version of the original song which was written in english, but it's traditional isn't it? :rolleyes:

murphaph

Slow coach wrote:

I doubt if any Scotsman or woman speaks Gallic. A fair proportion speak Gaelic, though.

Fair enough, but Scots pronounce it like Gallic, not Gaelic.

Slow coach wrote:

As to the original question, seeing as it's the Irish Anthem, perhaps it should be sung in Irish?

So, your passport says your irish, do you conduct yourself in irish all day? Obviously not, shame on you!

Slow coach wrote:

As regards % of native language speakers, it's 1.9% for Scotland, 21% for Wales and 42% for Ireland. Not sure about methodology, though.

hahahaha, the CSO figures from the oul census. A cupla focail suddendly becomes fluency whenever that form is being filled out. Even Conradh na Gaeilge accepts those figures to be bogus.

Blackjack

murphaph wrote:

Actually it was "Sinne laochra Gaedheal", or 'we the heroes of Ireland'. So people are actually singing a corrupted version of the translated version of the original song which was written in english, but it's traditional isn't it? :rolleyes:

According to Dictionary.com:

"tra·di·tion

The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.
A body of unwritten religious precepts.
A time-honored practice or set of such practices. "

So as it's always been sung in Irish, it is indeed traditional to continue to sing it in Irish.

Why the urge to Anglacise the Anthem?.

murphaph

Blackjack wrote:

So as it's always been sung in Irish, it is indeed traditional to continue to sing it in Irish.

It hasn't. It was changed to irish early on.

Blackjack wrote:

Why the urge to Anglacise [sic] the Anthem?.

I could equally ask, why was there an urge to translate it to a minority language after it had been written in english, the overwhelmingly majority language?

Pherekydes

murphaph wrote:

Fair enough, but Scots pronounce it like Gallic, not Gaelic.

What it sounds like is immaterial. Gallic pertains to France and the Gauls.

So, your passport says your irish, do you conduct yourself in irish all day?
Obviously not, shame on you!

Hardly the same thing, is it? How do you jump from singing our anthem in Irish to conducting all our business in Irish? I suppose we should just take an oath of allegiance to the Queen?

hahahaha, the CSO figures from the oul census. A cupla focail suddendly becomes fluency whenever that form is being filled out. Even Conradh na Gaeilge accepts those figures to be bogus.

That's why I mentioned questions about methodology.:rolleyes:

Blackjack

murphaph wrote:

It hasn't. It was changed to irish early on.

So it's a tradition from "early on" then. Still been sung in Irish a lot longer than it had been sung in English.

murphaph wrote:

I could equally ask, why was there an urge to translate it to a minority language after it had been written in english, the overwhelmingly majority language?

Perhaps because it was felt that the Irish Anthem shoud be sung in Irish - checking the views of most of the respondants on this board, most people seem to believe (still today) that this should be the case, leaving you in the Minority.

Why does this bother you so much?.

murphaph wrote:

[sic]

very clever indeed.

Pherekydes

murphaph wrote:

Blackjack wrote:

Why the urge to Anglacise [sic]...

Perhaps it sounded like anglicize?:D

crazy angel

nope!

StupidLikeAFox

Heres the wiki, its pretty interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhr%C3%A1n_na_bhFiann

Mr.Nice Guy

No but it would be amusing to see the reaction in Twickenham!

[Off topic]England just scored a try. Damn.[/Off topic]

twogunkid

Slow coach wrote:

What it sounds like is immaterial. Gallic pertains to France and the Gauls.




Hardly the same thing, is it? How do you jump from singing our anthem in Irish to conducting all our business in Irish? I suppose we should just take an oath of allegiance to the Queen?




That's why I mentioned questions about methodology.:rolleyes:

better as bearla than not atall----we didnt sing it today at twickenham are we destined to listen to that drivell henceforth ---irelands call!!!

DonkeyStyle \o/

I don't know the words, only the tune... and when I'm listening to it being sung, I can't tell if they're singing it in Irish or English anyway.
Maybe everybody sings it like they're just mouthing it out loud... like "hnmuurm de nurm-nurm-neehh, dur deee-de-dum nur-nuurrr ne-nur" which is why I neither know the words nor what language it's being murmured in. :eek:
The plot definitely thickens... or at least it would if I could care less either way.

funky penguin

Totally new song ftw.

Corruptedmorals

Of course not, it would ruin it completely.

I was never thought the national anthem in school, it was drilled into us in the gaeltacht...even the verses...hated it then, but I'll never forget it now

murphaph

Slow coach wrote:

What it sounds like is immaterial. Gallic pertains to France and the Gauls.

Scots Gallic-see, you can spell it like that too if you're so damn obsessed with it! Universities and all sorts spell it 'Gallic' and that is also how it's pronounced over there.

Slow coach wrote:

Hardly the same thing, is it? How do you jump from singing our anthem in Irish to conducting all our business in Irish? I suppose we should just take an oath of allegiance to the Queen?

I wondered how long it would take before the Queen was mentioned. Three pages, not bad I suppose. :rolleyes:

Slow coach wrote:

That's why I mentioned questions about methodology.:rolleyes:

Yes, you did, but anybody who has been to Wales knows empiracly that welsh is a sizable minority language and growing in importance, unlike irish and as I made clear-Land of our Fathers was actually written in welsh and always intended to be sung in Welsh, our anthem was penned in english to be sung in english and has since been modified to a version heavily influenced by a certain political group in Ireland.

R0ot

it should be sung in irish

el rabitos

national anthems in general should be done away with, most of them sound like bad eurovision songs.

....appart from the russian one. now thats cool. in fact, the russian national anthem should be adopted by all countrys.

murphaph

el rabitos wrote:

national anthems in general should be done away with, most of them sound like bad eurovision songs.

....appart from the russian one. now thats cool. in fact, the russian national anthem should be adopted by all countrys.

The Russkis already tried that. Didn't work out.

dudara

I would fight for this country, my home, and I have a fierce pride in Ireland. To even suggest singing the National Anthem in English is heresy, as far as I'm concerned.

It's actually a beautiful sounding song in Irish, and is far more aesthetic than the English language version.

If you want to call yourself Irish, learn the bloody words!

I also feel very strongly about the theme of the song, and the recent calls for the anthem to be changed. Some people are of the opinion that it is too miltaristic. In case any of them have forgotten their history, Ireland is a nation that had to fight bitterly for its right to freedom. Many people died so that we could have the right to sing a national anthem. We celebrate their sacrifice every time we sing. Don't ever forget that.

Manic Moran

el rabitos wrote:

....appart from the russian one. now thats cool. in fact, the russian national anthem should be adopted by all countrys.

Soviet one was probably the best of the lot.

NTM

el rabitos

I would fight for this country, my home, and I have a fierce pride in Ireland. To even suggest singing the National Anthem in English is heresy, as far as I'm concerned.

It's actually a beautiful sounding song in Irish, and is far more aesthetic than the English language version.

If you want to call yourself Irish, learn the bloody words!

I also feel very strongly about the theme of the song, and the recent calls for the anthem to be changed. Some people are of the opinion that it is too miltaristic. In case any of them have forgotten their history, Ireland is a nation that had to fight bitterly for its right to freedom. Many people died so that we could have the right to sing a national anthem. We celebrate their sacrifice every time we sing. Don't ever forget that.

what a patriot :rolleyes:

Soviet one was probably the best of the lot.

whatever, the one that was in rocky 4 good stuff.

WhiteWashMan

smashey wrote:

Absolutely not. Anybody who sings it 'As Bearla' should be shot.:mad:

what a stupid thing to say. its people like you that make me cringe.

give a reason why.

WhiteWashMan

national anthem should be sung however you want to sing it. its my song, for my country, i can sing it any fúcking way i want with you some dipshít telling me im being unpatriotic.