Monitored Alarms

lampor

I just rang eircom about getting a phonewatch installed. My house is 3 years old, along with my current alarm system. I couldn't get a quote, only the voice mail of the guy who handles monitoring only setups.

The person that put me through however said that they don't really take on currently alarmed homes, the usually only go with installing their own. (rip-off merchants?)

He siad they might take it on however. But I awaiting a call back.
If they say no. What then. Are there other option's I can peruse.

What are the general costs of monitoring only with eircom, and the other options (if any)

Its expensive enough getting started without having to wire up a whole new alarm system. This may put things beyond my reach, at least for a while.

civdef

Talk to local reputable & registered alarm companies, they typically can do a lot better than Eircom, and have their own monitoring arrangements.

The people who used to be called Magnum do our place at a fairly reasnable rate. Cheaper then phone watch anyway I think.

Clare gunner

If you do use an independant,make damn sure they have private indemnity and public liability insurance,and are registerd with the private security authorthy.[Check then with the PSA].Which they are required to be now under law.Also ask them for references and go and view the referees in person to satisfy yourself that they haven't given you their ol mates number.
Still too many rippoff artists out there.It's your money and possesions ,so why risk it on the "cheaper option"??Eircom is a rippoff agreed,but it is not likely to disapper overnight,if by some chance they screw up the alarm and set your house on fire by an electricalk short.

Riggser

You're looking at a grand for Eircom Phonewatch once everything is installed you get your first few months free (they change the inro offer so much) out of the way.

Nothing wrong at all with seeking another company to monitor your alarm.

lampor

a grand is not something I gonna be able to pay,

even with phonewatch I was hoping for about 500 max. (monitoring only)

Any cheaper compaines in the cork City area ? Although I do take what Clare gunner says quite seriously. I don't fancy having a bunch of how ya's handling my security and i'd pay the extra if need be but I'd like to see a few options.

Given that I have an exisiting alarm system what esl are the going to install to make them able to monitor it ?

DublinWriter

Dude! Forget Phonewatch. 1,200 & Vat, €25 a month, plus a €200 yearly 'maintenance fee'.

Basically, all that happens when your alarm goes off is that they'll ring the garda or you. Big deal.

A couple of months ago I got a friend of a friend to alarm my place for €800. The unit he put in txt's me if it goes off. No monthly or yearly fees.

Really, forget about Eircom, get a unit that will txt you automatically.

Meclor

.

lampor

Does a text facility meet the "Monitored" requirements for the Guards.

I think my current alarm has that feature, just isn't setup as the phonelines where not in when the alarm was installed.

DublinWriter

lampor wrote:

Does a text facility meet the "Monitored" requirements for the Guards.

My local garda station is in a small town in Co.Meath.

Under normal operation it's now supposed to be manned between 9am and 1pm on weekdays. It's not a 'sub-station', it's a regular station.

It's been totally unmanned for the past 2 months.

Honestly, you are better having alarm alerts txted to you.

If you think that having a monitored alarm will mean that you'll have a patrol car skidding around your corner within minutes of your alarm going off, then think again.

lampor

Even if I lived next to a station and reported I was slowly being chopped to pieces I wouldn't expect a speedy repsonse. But will the Guards demand I get a phonewatch style setup or will something that notifyes me be just as good for them?

Clare gunner

Jeeze you folks are getting really wild quotes for Eircom:eek: .1500 Euros for a 15 room house,and that is a wireless system as well.As to what the gaurds want as satisfactory alarm,well,that is another open to debate question,as there are no requirements in law as to what type of alarm is required.Another reason i went with EirCON is the fact I have elderly parents,and as they get older the alarm can be rigged to a medical alarm pendant trigger.So a 24 7 365 monitor system is vital.
The text system would be sufficent for anyone,since the Gardai insist that nowadays a keyholder goes out to confirm a real or false alarm.[Why not spare the Gardai all the work,just go out and apprehend the criminal as well at the crime scene:rolleyes: ??]But because no doubt it is a simple and effective system,it will be totally unacceptable:rolleyes: .
The odd thing was when I signed up there was a Garda question on the installation docket ;are firearms stored on the premises?
I would assume that would mean if an alarm is triggerd here,the response will be alot quicker and proably armed as well.It was the last time we were broken into and one gun was nicked.Armed tecs were out within ten minutes from discovery of break in.

Riggser

lampor wrote:

a grand is not something I gonna be able to pay

Right cart before the horse here. Talk to you local cop shop and if you can your district SuperNintendo. I have talked to people that are relations of the super and everything is sorted in days, not weeks days. If you can find out what they want, as in what kind of monitored alarm they will accept.

.

Redstag

I have just been approved as a registered firearms dealer in Cork county, and have had to get an extensive alarm monitoring system installed on my premises. This involves having the alarm contacts monitored and alarms sent via the analoue telephone line, and then the analogue telphone line is monitored using a GSM backup, in the event of the main line being cut. I must pay my monitoring company an annual fee for both services, costs approx €650. If you pm me, I'll talk you through some of the additional requirements that you may be asked to have by the garda cpo.
Also, not wanting to distract from this thread, but if anyone wishes to get quotes on new rifles and shotguns, I would be delighted to quote and see how I fare against some of the bigger dealers. My motto is "Quick Sale, Light Profit."

Rovi

I upgraded my alarm a few months ago and I contacted the Crime Prevention Officer for his advice, as I intend applying for a pistol licence in due course and I want to have the thing up to spec beforehand.

He said that he (or more correctly, the Super) would be looking for a system installed to IS 199/EN 50131 and monitored to IS 228.
http://www.isia.ie/isia/Main/Standards.htm

A DIY installed/monitored system will not meet these standards, unless you can get an NSAI certified installer to sign off on it and sign up with a certified monitoring company.
I DO know one guy who has done exactly this, but then, he is an electrical engineer

My home is specifically noted as containing firearms, and the room with the safes has its own zone on the system.

.

lampor

I did a bit of ringing around and here what i found.

The company that put in my alarm system will add in extra contacts (window,door) and a PIR for my safe room for about 110euro and connect my to a monitioring company for 160+vat;

The monitioring company (Top security) will cost 150 a year.

no bad value overall really. compared to the eircom prices I've been seeing i'm stunned at how low it the prices are.

Clare gunner

lampor
Not telling you your biz,but check with the PSA if Top security is registerd with them to be able to do what they claim.Cant find them on the ISIA website,and by rights they should be members.
www.psa.ie

lampor

Will do Clare gunner, thanks

about that link to psa - Portable Site Accommodation ???

<edit>
www.psa.gov.ie found this link on the ISIA site.

scout

if the gardai recieve a call that a house is being broken into i think they would be slower coming out if they knew there were guns in the house i know i would be!

scout

Redstag wrote:

I have just been approved as a registered firearms dealer in Cork county,

Where abouts are you ?

Clare gunner

scout wrote:

if the gardai recieve a call that a house is being broken into i think they would be slower coming out if they knew there were guns in the house i know i would be!

ASFIK the policy for this is to send armed detectives ASAP with the regulars.

Redstag

I'm based in Youghal. PM me if you want any quotes. I'll do my best to get up and going.

Cheers.

Trojan911

Lampor,

I've just done the same with eircom, my quote for a bungalow was a few cent under €1,300, wireless system house 6 yrs old etc. I was able to do it online and got a quote back in two days via email plus correspondence through the letterbox.

Didn't figure on the price being so high so still looking. As for monitoring I have sussed approx eight companies nationwide and the cheapest monitoring quote was MCM Security for approx €12 a month. I just went through the phone book and called them one after the other.

TJ911...

PS: I have muddled the brains but cannot come up with the ASFIK abbreviation??? Can someone enlighten me ..........

lampor

ASFIK = As Far as I know ??? I think

12 a month sounds pretty good. I rang the loca FAO he siad I don't need a monitored alarm, which is great - very sound guy, he just said drop over when 'm ready and hell get me sorted out!

altough I'll still gonna get it in monitored just to be on the safe side, and I'll no doubt need it when the CJB eventually gets finished

The Security ma

And the **ONLY** reason the garda Crime Stats for 2005 show an overall 'decrease in crime', is because no-one bothers their arses reporting crime to the gardai anymore!
Whats the point??
No fear of the Superintendents reading this either, because they haven't even got an Internet connection in the garda stations (FACT!)....
LOL

Clash

lampor wrote:

ASFIK = As Far as I know ??? I think

As Far As I Know = AFAIK

ASFIK = I can't spell

Clash

Just spoke to a friend in the security business. Gardai will not call out to an alarm activation if only a window sensor goes off. They will call out if both a window sensor and a PIR are activated. Hence the need for monitoring.

If you are getting a monitored alarm for firearms cert purposes, then you must have both window sensors and a PIR in the room with the safe. You will probably also need a GSM router for protection in the event of telephone wires being cut.

jaycee

No fear of the Superintendents reading this either, because they haven't even got an Internet connection in the garda stations (FACT!)

I suppose they have no home pc's either.. :rolleyes:

flight93

Very sorry to dissapoint you but the PSA is just a scam and against current EU law (due to be challanged shortly). I can tell you that because I have first hand experience with them. Eddie Hobbs wrote a very accurate artical about them in the cork examiner a while ago. The PSA will not ensure higher standards, only higher prices.
There is still no regognised qualification for an alarm installer in this country, just people like the PSA looking to get hands on your money. Only afraction of alarm installers in the country are with the PSA (the same with door men and security personell). They even want to licence people who install locks in the future (unworkable). If you want to know more PM me. The PSA has been informed of sevral alarm installers installing alarms without a "licence", they responded by saying they "did not have the manpower" to deal with it. What techincal qualifications do you need to join the PSA as an intruder alarm installer???? NONE. I think this speaks volumes.


Eircom Phone Watch alarms generally have no outside bell box, only a dummy. This often means that when they go off they can not be heard by neighbours. So if an intruder were to cut the phone line and then break in he has in many cases got around you Phone Watch alarm system.

17HMR

This insistence on a monitored alarm is just more window dressing...
The vast majority of monitored alarms use a landline connection and the first thing any crim is going to target is the phone line coming into the house (particularly obvious if you live in the out in the countryside).

Even if the monitored part uses GSM, let's face it, unless the Gardia have a response time in minutes they are never going to catch anyone.

Where I live we have 2 Gardai on at night covering an area of about 500 square miles. One traffic accident and they're tied up for at least an hour....

Sparks

If it's window dressing, it's window dressing that not only saves your money on your house insurance costs, it's window dressing I would have liked to have had on Friday night when some thugs broke into my home and made off with around thirty grand's worth of jewellery. Sometimes windowdressing has a wider purpose.

Besides which, have you a better suggestion?

17HMR

Sorry to hear that Sparks.....

I use the term window dressing as it's one of these things that sounds great in theory but falls way short of delivery in practice.

As I'm sure anyone in the alarm business will tell you, an alarm it nothing more than a deterrent really. I guess if you have a GSM based system that texts out specific details like window 3 sensor alert, room 3 PIR alert then you can chase up the boys in blue directly and do so with specifics or call a neighbour or get back there yourself etc....any of which may be enough to scare off the scum before any serious damage is done.

Even GSM systems though can be blocked - blockers are easily available on the 'Net, though I'd imagine few criminals are that well equipped.

Sparks

As I'm sure anyone in the alarm business will tell you, an alarm it nothing more than a deterrent really.

True. But then, next door was empty too, but they had an alarm with a big obvious box on the wall. We got burgled, they didn't. Sometimes a deterrent is a useful thing!

Besides, if they come with enough equipment and knowlege to defeat even a basic alarm system, then they're serious enough that you being at home with a baseball bat in your hands isn't going to be enough deterrent either...

flight93

Sparks, a monitored alarm requires a maintenence contract. Between monitoring contract and the maintenence it will cost you alot more each year than the discount you will save with insurance.
To deter the thieves you need to look at the whole package, this will include:

Sensor lights

Alarm system (with working bell box ie. LEDS that flash on it)

Good locks

GSM module so that the alarm can ring out if the phone line is cut.

Alarm panel should be in a secure location that is hard for the intruder to find.




I think that alarms that ring monitoring stations are highly over rated. If mine goes off it rings me (and 3 others). We respond far quicker than the cops can and we ring them when we are on the way. This saves alot of cash also. The local super is happy with it also.

Sorry to hear about your break in sparks.

flight93

if they come with enough equipment and knowlege to defeat even a basic alarm system,

If a basic alarm is properly installed it will have phoned out for help before the best equiped theif can disable it. This should be enough to stop them getting the most inportant stuff. All you can hope to do is put enough barriers in to slow them down. They can get through anything, the trick is not to give them enough time.

Sparks

flight93 wrote:

Sparks, a monitored alarm requires a maintenence contract. Between monitoring contract and the maintenence it will cost you alot more each year than the discount you will save with insurance.

By a large margin? Do we have a comparison between the different packages?
Although at this point, I'd consider it money well spent

I think that alarms that ring monitoring stations are highly over rated. If mine goes off it rings me (and 3 others). We respond far quicker than the cops can and we ring them when we are on the way.

I'd have to agree with that approach - I'd want to be the first person called, not someone at the tail end of a double shift who really wants their coffee break

DublinWriter

My own alarm system txts me directly on my moby (plus any other nominated numbers) if there's an attempted break-in.

A monitoring system, such as PhoneWatch will only ring you after the fact.

Cut out the middleman. Monitored systems are a rip unless they provide a follow-up call out.

Whizzo

Alot of guys I work with have installed Aztec burglar alarm systems which are apparently quite easy to install, and connect to you're phone line/ It will ring 5 numbers in succession with a pre-recorded message unless a code is entered, last number could be the Gaurds. Why pay for monitoring??

fred funk }{

Whizzo wrote:

Alot of guys I work with have installed Aztec burglar alarm systems which are apparently quite easy to install, and connect to you're phone line/ It will ring 5 numbers in succession with a pre-recorded message unless a code is entered, last number could be the Gaurds. Why pay for monitoring??

The guards wont respond to an automated message from a self installed alarm. They will only respond to a certified alarm that is monitored to a central station. You dont need a service contract, the alarm must be serviced by a alarm company who is registered with the relevant standards authorities.

flight93

Sparks wrote:

By a large margin? Do we have a comparison between the different packages?

I think the price you get off your insurance is in the order of 5%. Monitoring, maintenence etc. will vary alot but assume €150ish a year. Surley this is more than 5% of your home insurance??

An important fact to remember is that if you tell your insurance company that you have an alarm to avail of the discount in the small print it will tell you that if you havnt set your alarm and you are broken into the insurance is NULL & VOID. Is it worth it for 5%??? They can check if your alarm was on or not.

BOBTHESHOOTER

Have a lot of sympathy for sparks, it is no fun for anyone to have their house ransacked least loose a load of valuables, insurance hopfully will help but really it is impossible to replace some items of great sentimental value! Real bummer!

In any case Sail Alarms in Balbriggan I would highly recommend, did a great job 18 months ago for me, upgraded the exisiting alarm and provide a monitored service for less than €200 per annum, does it work! missus was doing her hair one Saturday AM, knocked the panic button in the bedroom by mistake, we reset that alarm thinking that we sorted it before the monitoring company would be bothered, however within 5 minutes there were three Gardai knocking on the door to enquire if everyting was allright! I call that a great boost in confidence for all concerned.

Monitored alarms, these days well worth the money!

DublinWriter

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Monitored alarms, these days well worth the money!

Crap. They are a rip off.

Why have a monitored alarm when you can have your alarm txt your phone directly?

What's the benefit of a monitored alarm contract unless the monitoring company are going to send one of their vans out to check your premesis?

BOBTHESHOOTER

DublinWriter wrote:

Crap. They are a rip off.

Why have a monitored alarm when you can have your alarm txt your phone directly?

What's the benefit of a monitored alarm contract unless the monitoring company are going to send one of their vans out to check your premesis?

Imagine the scene, 04:00 in the morning, your house broken into by some scumbag after your car keys, alarm goes off, your inexpensive system sends you a text in your bedroom to say your alarm has gone off, great system.

Alternative monitored alarm, hit the panic button and you get a garda response in less than 5 minutes............

Scene 2) You are on holiday in spain, (that is unless you feel holidays are a rip off too) your house gets broken into, your great cheap and very effective alarm sends a text to tel you your house has been broken into..........enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Secene 3) Your house gets broken into, your wonderful cheap and not a rip off alarm sends a text to you..............oh no out of coverage, you don't get the text until back in range................great system, saved lots of money but no use at all.................so who is talking crap!

DublinWriter

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

so who is talking crap!

You are if you think the guards will be out to you in 5 minutes.

Sparks

Actually, the Gardai were up to my house inside ten minutes. Mind you, given that it was the local Firearms Officer who arrived, there might have been a bit of incentive involved there

Sparks

flight93 wrote:

An important fact to remember is that if you tell your insurance company that you have an alarm to avail of the discount in the small print it will tell you that if you havnt set your alarm and you are broken into the insurance is NULL & VOID. Is it worth it for 5%??? They can check if your alarm was on or not.

Well, thing is, in the small print they also say that you have to have locked your doors as well or you won't get a payout. So whether or not you have an alarm fitted, you have to exercise a reasonable standard of care. You leave the front door flapping in the breeze with noone at home so that anyone can walk in and your insurance won't pay out the full whack for items stolen (according to our policy, anyway, but I'm fairly certain it's universal).

By the way, thanks for the sympathies everyone. It's been an annoying little episode for me, it's been nice to hear a pleasant word or two about it!

flight93

Sparks, believe it or not most people do not turn on their alarm (stupid as it may sound). This is especialy true when they have just popped out for 5 minutes etc. I have seen this time and time again. If you wer to leave a door unlocked the insurance company have no way of proving this, perhaps the thief has a copy of the key etc. (unlike not turning on the alarm). For those of you that think monitored alarms are more expensive than alarms that are connected to a monitoring station guess what?? THEY ARE NOT!! They are even made by the same companies! You will find that over 90%of the hard wired (far superior to wireless) alarm systems are HKC, Aritech or Astec. This is the case regardless of being monitored by a monitoring station or not. If your alarm can only ring out using a landline all the monitoring in the world is a waste if the intuder can just cut it!! Install a GSM module or radio link (more expensive). If your alarm rings you directly you can change it yourself if you are away on holiday so that it rings someone closer to home. If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night to rob your car keys the alarm with keep ringing up to 4 NUMBERS in rotation until it gets the desired response. If you have any friends left in this world one of them will ring the cops! If you have a standard monitored alarm they have cut the phone line and no help is on the way!!!! Anyway do yourself a favour, give the guy the keys its a sh!t car anyway!

Saddlebags

First, sorry to hear you became another statistic, Sparks.:(

Are not monitered alarms only a requirement for dealers?
For ordinary licence holders its up the Super if he wants to impose that condition on you - not all do.
Given the new Garda policy on monitored alarms, waste of time unless you live near a 24 hr station (double activation and an agreed meet at the premises - read the policy on the Garda site!!!!).
Best system is a hard-wired perimiter system and if your Super lets you, then a digi that rings you direct. GSM's are expensive but you can thwart the scum by using a digi with a line voltage moniter and connecting a relay to your bell outputs! Then, if the scum cut your phone line, the alarm will sound WHILE THEY ARE STILL OUTSIDE.
Just my tuppence worth!

Clare gunner

flight93 wrote:

Very sorry to dissapoint you but the PSA is just a scam and against current EU law (due to be challanged shortly). I can tell you that because I have first hand experience with them. Eddie Hobbs wrote a very accurate artical about them in the cork examiner a while ago. The PSA will not ensure higher standards, only higher prices.
There is still no regognised qualification for an alarm installer in this country, just people like the PSA looking to get hands on your money. Only afraction of alarm installers in the country are with the PSA (the same with door men and security personell). They even want to licence people who install locks in the future (unworkable). If you want to know more PM me. The PSA has been informed of sevral alarm installers installing alarms without a "licence", they responded by saying they "did not have the manpower" to deal with it. What techincal qualifications do you need to join the PSA as an intruder alarm installer???? NONE. I think this speaks volumes.


Eircom Phone Watch alarms generally have no outside bell box, only a dummy. This often means that when they go off they can not be heard by neighbours. So if an intruder were to cut the phone line and then break in he has in many cases got around you Phone Watch alarm system.

Never a truer word said there:(
Question How many of your neighbours have responded or done anything when an outside alarm goes off???More like "it's that feckin Bloggs alarm going off again."Too many shoddily installed alarms being set off by domestic pets,wind rattle etc.Outside alarms are now just apart of modern day backround noise.So a dummy box just as well serves a purpose without annoying all and sundry.

Oh BTW should mention.DONT think the GSM system is impregnable.There are devices out there that will negate GSM signals.Fortuneatly they are difficult enough to get and VERY expensive.
However just to let everyone know that it is vunerable.

rrpc

CG wrote:

Question How many of your neighbours have responded or done anything when an outside alarm goes off???More like "it's that feckin Bloggs alarm going off again."Too many shoddily installed alarms being set off by domestic pets,wind rattle etc.Outside alarms are now just apart of modern day backround noise.So a dummy box just as well serves a purpose without annoying all and sundry

If it's that 'feckin Bloggs' alarm again, then there is a problem with the alarm that should be rectified to prevent falsies. I live in a remote area, and a neighbour has an alarm for which I have the code and a spare key to get in should the alarm go off. The point is that if the alarm goes off, I respond to it if I am nearby and hear it. I'm not going to hear a dummy am I?

Putting in an alarm is only part of the job. You should also inform your neighbours and give them a means of access so that they are not annoyed by falsies and can help with your security.

Clare gunner

rrpc wrote:

If it's that 'feckin Bloggs' alarm again, then there is a problem with the alarm that should be rectified to prevent falsies. I live in a remote area, and a neighbour has an alarm for which I have the code and a spare key to get in should the alarm go off. The point is that if the alarm goes off, I respond to it if I am nearby and hear it. I'm not going to hear a dummy am I?

Putting in an alarm is only part of the job. You should also inform your neighbours and give them a means of access so that they are not annoyed by falsies and can help with your security.

That might be fine if you know your neighbours for 20 odd years and are really rural.I live in a area that was ruaral but is now becoming light suburburan.I dont know one tenth of the people here now.I sure as Hell wouldnt give them my keys.And it is THEIR damn alarms that keep going off.
Mostly townies who have moved into the country and think it is the same as the city.I have asked three of them to fix their alarms and been told the usual "who the FK are you?telling us how to live,just because you live in a big house,Think you are Lord of the Manor etc etc?? The same ones who ring the Gaurds if I decide to bust some clays on a weekend,or if the farmer spreads slurry they bitch and moan about the smell.:rolleyes:
Nah.THOSE kind of neighbours anyone can do without.