The Proposed new student centre

irlrobins

Picked up the Observer the other day and found a nice insert advertising the proposed new student centre. Interesting to hear what people think. Here are some of my views on it:

TBH, I don't think we need a new student centre. The existing one (which we are still paying for) is not used to it's full potential. The Astra Hall is the prime example of this, it is rarely used. Many of the proposed facilities in the new centre exist in the current centre. Others I feel are redundant.

Drama Theatre: A good idea, the LGs are not designed for performances. A purpose built theatre would def improve the quality of drama events and allow bigger productions to take place. But the Astra Hall could be used for this.

Debating Chamber: Pointless imho. Events that would be held in this room can currently be held in lecture theatres or the Astra Hall.

Dance Studio: Better off in a sports centre.

Medical Centre: Obviously a good thing to have a bigger med centre. But the proposed size of it (17 consulting rooms) raises the question whether there will be enough medical staff available to man such a large centre. At times the current centre struggles to provide services all year round. Who will fund the additional staff?

Media Centre: A waste. Anyone remember Campus Television Network at start of year? Where are they now? And while Belfield FM have increased their broadcasts this year, I think the only people who benefit from it are the people involved in it. I think their listenership rates are extremely low, and I'd question the amount of resources it gets. I think the money could be better spent on services that benefit more of the student population. Likewise for media centre.

Cinema: Nice idea, but unless you can guarantee blockbuster movies etc, this will prob be under used. Also if it is required then Astra Hall could easily be used, if the correct equipment is installed.

Swimming Pool: UCD could def use a good pool facility. But this should be constructed by the college and not have to be paid for by students by a levy.

Other rooms: The meeting rooms, lounge areas are all fine ideas. But surely it would be better to extend the existing centre to accomadate the new rooms then having to build an entirely new building.

So to summarise, my opinion would be to try and maximse the use of the Astra Hall as a cinema, theatre, debate venue and to extend the existing building to accomadate more meeting rooms, rather than construction of a new centre.

What do y'all think?

John_C

I saw a leaflet for it and I tought it contained a few usefull ideas but overall I'm opposed.

I definately think a swimming pool should be built, though I would have tought the Sports Dept. should be in charge of it.

The meeting rooms in the current centre are underused and there are plenty of spare meeting rooms elsewhere in the college in the evenings. If any space is needed for society rooms or another office, one of then should be converted which would be fairly cheap. I'd be worried about any large number of offices becoming hack-central.

There is no need for a debating hall. Plenty exist already.

A cinema would be nice but only if it can be built at no cost to the SU. It's not exactly an essential service and there are already plenty of cinemas about the city. Film Soc. cater for the cheap, low quality market quite well so I'd prefer to see a properly run cinema (presumably charging near enough market rates) than a student run film-on-a-projector type setup.

There is no real need for more lounging around facilities. I would however support any effort to get the couches put back into the engineering building.

I think there's a definate need for another restaurant or café selling something that is neither chips or sandwiches. If you don't eat chips, sandwiches can get very sickening after a while. I think that one of the existing outlets could be converted though, there's no real need for another.

The existing medical centre is only open a few years so it's a case of very poor planning if it's obsolete already. I've never been in to though so I don't know.

Dance and theatre can fit into the existing facilities. They may not be perfect but noone is expecting a student run show to have all the latest gadgets and gismo's. You go to watch the show, not the venue.

All in all, swimming pool aside, I don't see any need for a new student centre.

beanyb

John_C wrote:

There is no real need for more lounging around facilities. I would however support any effort to get the couches put back into the engineering building.

If you want couches in engineering, you must be doing engineering. Which means that you have very few hours to just num around college since you have so many hours of lectures.

Personally, as a bum arts student that has some 4 hour breaks between lectures, I'd really appreciate somewhere warm and comfy to sit, where I dont have to buy something in the place so I can sit there. We generally find ourselves moving from restaurant to restaurant during our breaks. If there were more places to just sit, it'd be great!

arbeitsscheuer

When did UCD turn from a respected hallowed hall of academia into a fcuking leisure centre?:mad:

Things which need funds and updates which are integral to academic progression, and therefore the fcukin priority of the university:
Library (nowhere near enough books - if you think there are, go to Trinity's. It'll blow your mind, man)
Computers (it's been said hundreds of times before - WE NEED MORE OF THE FCUKERS)
Lecture theatres (Better projectors, WORKING projectors, better mics, WORKING mics etc)

Add your own to the list btw.

Thank sweet holy mother of cr*p that I ain't payin' for this stupid centre.

GusherING

I'd agree with most of the things you guys have said. Its a pipe dream. There is a plan to hold a referndum on the matter when we come back from the break, along with the SU exec elections. Bear in mind, if it is built, those who actually use it will pay for most of it. Next year, the Student Centre Levy goes up to €75 from €63.50 this year.

tintinr35

wonder how much that nice glossy brochure cost???

holly2000

FFS have a bit of vision as to how things could be. Anyone involved in running things knows that its harder and harder to get a venue to put stuff in. Classes and lectures are taking up more and more time and evening courses are getting bigger. An expanded student centre will have all the student facilities in one place. Any1 who says that the meeting rooms and astra hall are underused clearly isn't trying to book them. Of course they're empty some times, but they're also busy - more facilities means greater flexibility with bookings.

Look at whats planned - a swimming pool - we're probably the only university at this stage that doesnt have a pool, its stupid with so many clubs that could use it, as well as all the students in ucd; meeting rooms - another set of four rooms, that can be broken up like the current ones would be pretty useful, especially as more and more events are pushed out of the rest of the college; debating hall - why shouldn't there be a debating hall, look at all the debates and guests that come out every year, we have 2 debating societies and lots of other societies have big guests during the year, dr.cox earlier in the year had to turn away 100s of people; cinema - filmsoc and scfi always run films, so do other societies and clubs, why shouldn't we have a theatre thats setup nice with decent seats and decent sound, like a cinema on a ship - who likes sitting in the seats in a UCD lecture theatre for 2 or 3 hours watching a film? Its bad enough sitting through a lecture!; dance studio - again, more facilities for students and can be used by the dance society, yoga etc. The sports centre is probably just as busy as everywhere else, why shouldn't we have a studio; media centre - maybe we can see what belfield fm or ctn are capable of if we gave them the facilities to do the job, rather than sticking them in a shed and expect them to be successful for 2 weeks a year; drama - anyone been to trinity theatre? You should have a look, and then come back and say that dramsoc are grand where they are.

And whats the point comparing this to the library or computers? Putting in more facilities isn't going to cost the library anything, that's a different fight to have with the library and computing services. If there's anew student centre we will be paying for it - unless youre suggesting we should start paying for the library and computers as well, in which case we let ucd off the hook. I dont see whats wrong with having a 'leisure centre', it makes things more fun and its not going to ruin the qulaity of ucd degrees!

I dont really get it, I thought the info in the observer was pretty good, and pretty exciting. I dont understand why we should look around and say that its ok to use facilities in lecture theatres and stuff that are at best ok, when we can purpose build a bigger centre that will be the envy of all the other colleges, and let the clubs and societies etc put on bigger and better events, and allow for more diversity. This is just typical, where everyone is going to wander along and say 'it should have this, and not this', or 'leave this out and put this in'. Why is what you want more important than what will benefit someone else? Why not try and put in as much as possible, with most of the facilities that will allow activities and events become better for everyone? I cant believe that the clubs and societies and students union used to operate out of that dingy corridor off the library tunnel until the student centre was built - take a look, its the corridor with the photocopy office on it. That used to be the 'student centre'. OMG. if everyone sat around 15 years ago and said 'we're ok with what we've got now', there'd probably be no student centre today.

/breathes again

panda100

I dont think its fair that students have had no input in the design yet we are expected to fork out the euro's for it.The college have been very sneaky with this student centre.They've been desigining it for about 5years and now have just turned around to the su and said that the college doesnt have enough money for it so if the students want a new student centre we have to pay for it.Very clever by the college really.The students had no input into the design of the last student centre and look at what a waste it was.The astra hall and couches are only used occasionally or during the daytime.I think the college should have come to us students first before completing the design and asking us to hand over our money for it.

singingstranger

I don't think it's even been designed by proper architects yet, the one on the glossy was just a loose design...

The_Minister

Why should UCD pay? They do our degrees, its not their duty to buy us a cinema.

zap

this is an extension not a new student centre - that is only a graphic and students are currently being invited to get involved in the design process i.e. the whole point of the brochure and the current student centre is at full capacity - try booking a room if ya don't believe me

Young Siward

panda100 wrote:

I dont think its fair that students have had no input in the design yet we are expected to fork out the euro's for it.The college have been very sneaky with this student centre.They've been desigining it for about 5years and now have just turned around to the su and said that the college doesnt have enough money for it so if the students want a new student centre we have to pay for it.Very clever by the college really.The students had no input into the design of the last student centre and look at what a waste it was.The astra hall and couches are only used occasionally or during the daytime.I think the college should have come to us students first before completing the design and asking us to hand over our money for it.

Yeah and as far as I know the societies who will be using it have not had any say either.
Would it really make sense to put the two college newspapers right next door to each other, even with the improved facilities???

John_C

zap wrote:

this is an extension not a new student centre - that is only a graphic and students are currently being invited to get involved in the design process i.e. the whole point of the brochure and the current student centre is at full capacity - try booking a room if ya don't believe me

I've often booked a room there and I've never had any difficulty. I've often walked past the rooms and seen them empty. I can't think of a single time I've either been refused a room because they were booked out or walked past the rooms and seen them all full.

The proposal in the paper seems to have a lot of duplication. Could the debating room, cinema and drama theatre not be combined into one room, or for that matter simply be located in the astra hall?

zap

well if all the media were in the one area it would be a fantastic idea - although the issue of the two newspaper together had crossed my mind

singingstranger

zap wrote:

well if all the media were in the one area it would be a fantastic idea - although the issue of the two newspaper together had crossed my mind

It's been said that the Trib don't want to move... anyone?

Blush_01

The very biggest problem I would see with it is that it's going to cost students a lot more each year in terms of levy. The current €63.50 will go to €150 or higher - that, in my opinion, is outrageous. Glenalbyn pool is 10 minutes away - we don't NEED a pool. More staff in the health center is what we need, not more empty rooms. The theatres are completely adequate for debates et al. The only problem in booking Astra is not doing it far enough in advance. The SU attempted to put on movies during the year in A109, and nobody turned up - why pay for an empty cinema?

Sure, the proposed changes would be cool - if they weren't going to cost a fortune, and if there weren't real priorities that aren't being tackled. I'm 5,000,000% with Seb on this one. Focus on improving the library, the computer situation and the quality of the audio-visual equipment in lecture theatres. Make our educational experience great first.. Maximise the potential of the rooms we have - example: make Astra a cinema during the day, at 3 or so, so it's still available for the societies and clubs that need it in the evening, when they need it. Then, once all that has been done and if it still isn't enough, waste money we don't have on a feckin' pool.

pretty*monster

panda100 wrote:

I dont think its fair that students have had no input in the design yet we are expected to fork out the euro's for it.The college have been very sneaky with this student centre.They've been desigining it for about 5years and now have just turned around to the su and said that the college doesnt have enough money for it so if the students want a new student centre we have to pay for it.Very clever by the college really.The students had no input into the design of the last student centre and look at what a waste it was.The astra hall and couches are only used occasionally or during the daytime.I think the college should have come to us students first before completing the design and asking us to hand over our money for it.

Actually Dominic O'Keefe, the student centre manager, is gagging for students to get involved and have their say on what goes into the new student centre.
You can e-mail him at dominic.okeeffe(at)ucd.ie or drop into the student centre and ask for him.
The designs haven't been completed, far from it, they haven't even hierd an architect yet. Get on to Dominic, have your say, he's lovely.

Do we need more space? Yes, absolutely, without a doubt.
We've had massive difficulties getting rooms this year, especially ones with av equipment for films. Last year if you went to the services desk early enough you could pick what room you wanted, this year you fill out a form and they allocate you a room based on availability your prediction of how many will attend, with no reference to what kind of space is appropriate to the event.

Additionally services have told me that we can't have rooms before 6pm. Obviously there are loopholes in this (I'm thinking lunchtime debates and the like) but certainly I can't get a room before 6.

It's getting progressively harder to book space in the college, (which is a good thing obviously, students should be in class learning for a certain portion of the week) and I don't see that getting any better.

John_C wrote:

Could the debating room, cinema and drama theatre not be combined into one room, or for that matter simply be located in the astra hall?

Short answer, no. DramSoc show plays every lunch time and week night. L&H and LawSoc have weekly debates, a number of smaller societies have sporadic debates, FilmSoc, SciFi Soc, PhilSoc, and loads of other smallSocs show films pretty regularly.
A combination space wouldn't solve the problem of a shortage of space, while several purpose built areas would, while also having the advantage of being 'purpose built’, which makes running events easier, and will raise their quality.

John_C wrote:

It's been said that the Trib don't want to move... anyone?

Haven't heard, though I'm sure they're attached to their cosy little office in the Arts block, but a media centre in the student centre would mean that, like the current observer, they'd have 24hour access to their newsroom instead of having to deal with arts block opening times.


Aaanyway. I think that the proposed changes are good ones, but of course, the big stumbling block is the money. Fear not students, there will be a referendum before any increase in the student centre levy is introduced. Personally, I think the money is worth it, but that's just me.

And again, if anyone wants to have any input into the student centre at all, get on to Dominic, he'll be happy to hear from you, honestly.



And as to the need to focus on educational facilities, yes absolutely we do. But they're two entirely separate issues. The library budget, the computer services budget, etc comes from the university (i.e. tax payers, fee paying students etc.) The student centre budget comes from the student centre levy which we pay with our registration fee. Choosing not to expand the student centre will not free up any more cash for educational services.

singingstranger

pretty*monster wrote:

Additionally services have told me that we can't have rooms before 6pm. Obviously there are loopholes in this (I'm thinking lunchtime debates and the like) but certainly I can't get a room before 6.

From my DeutschSoc stuff I know that it's only 1pm or after 6. No other times during the day.

holly2000

I dont think its fair that students have had no input in the design yet we are expected to fork out the euro's for it.The college have been very sneaky with this student centre.They've been desigining it for about 5years and now have just turned around to the su and said that the college doesnt have enough money for it so if the students want a new student centre we have to pay for it.Very clever by the college really.The students had no input into the design of the last student centre and look at what a waste it was.The astra hall and couches are only used occasionally or during the daytime.I think the college should have come to us students first before completing the design and asking us to hand over our money for it.

I dont think anything is designed yet, its our call if we want to develop the Student Centre or not. AFAIK the last student centre was in process for 30 years since the 60s, and I think it finally happened after years of consultation. Unless you know otherwise? Obviously its going to cost some money, but I think if we're definitely getting the facilities that are being suggested, and obviously depending on how much, it might be worth it. Writing it off just because 'there's things there already' or 'we need more books in the library' doesn't seem particularly rational.

Would it really make sense to put the two college newspapers right next door to each other, even with the improved facilities???

I dont think putting 2 offices near/beside each other will impede their ability to do their work. All the clubs and societies work out of just one office and they're competing with each other. How would separate offices for the papers and bfm etc mess up their abaility to work?!

I've often booked a room there and I've never had any difficulty. I've often walked past the rooms and seen them empty. I can't think of a single time I've either been refused a room because they were booked out or walked past the rooms and seen them all full.

And often they're full, and often it's on a night during the week when lots of events are on. Unfortunately its not very possible to put stuff on in the daytime just because thats when the room is free-thats also when nobody will go to your meeting!

Glenalbyn pool is 10 minutes away - we don't NEED a pool.

And on that basis, there are spars in clonskeagh and fosters avenue, so we don't need a shop; there's a chipper beside the montrose, so we don't need restaurants; there are sports pitches in deerpark, so we don't need them either; and ashtons and o sheas in clonskeagh are also only 10 minutes away, so we should close the bars.

The proposal in the paper seems to have a lot of duplication. Could the debating room, cinema and drama theatre not be combined into one room, or for that matter simply be located in the astra hall?

Like I said, now we move into the world of 'lets put this in and leave this out'. Have you ever been to a play in dramsoc? Or a debate? Or a film run by a society? Or anything else? Dramsoc is already 5 nights a week; the debates are 1 night each; filmsoc are 2 or 3 nights; scifi I think are the same. How is all this going to fit in the astra hall? Thats already 11 nights a week where there are only 5 nights available. And thats not counting any of the other societies who want to run something-should they suffer because the bigger ones want to use the space? Its pretty clear that the requirements for a meeting are not the same as for a cinema, which are not the same as for a play. And what about gigs? Freshers Ball, The Coral? We cant fit everything into 'no space', if we want to have events we need somewhere to put them. Thats like saying we should only have a couple of pitches, and we dont need separate pitches for gaelic rugby and soccer because they can use the same ones. Maybe, but not all at the same time, so as a result we'd have less teams and training. Same for societies really, if we dont have the space and facilities some of them are going to suffer, usually the smaller ones. If dramsoc used the astra hall as their venue nobody else could use it, because theyd be there permanently.

pretty*monster

singingstranger wrote:

From my DeutschSoc stuff I know that it's only 1pm or after 6. No other times during the day.

Ah, that would make sence. At anyrate, it would be nice to be able to book meeting rooms for anytime during the day.

panda100

holly2000 wrote:

I dont think anything is designed yet, its our call if we want to develop the Student Centre or not. AFAIK the last student centre was in process for 30 years since the 60s, and I think it finally happened after years of consultation .

I dont think students should be this naive.Believe me this student centre is being built,whether we want it or not.As you said the last student centre was years in the making,Well this student centre has been in the piepline for at least ten years.You dont come up with these sorta plans over night!That leaflet in the observer is to get us all excited with its lovely colourful pics etc so we dont mind paying 75euro a year for a cinema we dont need. Brady will make this centre how he wants to make it-i.e americanise it. I dont think the old student centre need to be changed at all-well cept for the health services part-thats a bit off a mess.

singingstranger

panda100 wrote:

I dont think students should be this naive.Believe me this student centre is being built,whether we want it or not.As you said the last student centre was years in the making,Well this student centre has been in the piepline for at least ten years.You dont come up with these sorta plans over night!That leaflet in the observer is to get us all excited with its lovely colourful pics etc so we dont mind paying 75euro a year for a cinema we dont need. Brady will make this centre how he wants to make it-i.e americanise it. I dont think the old student centre need to be changed at all-well cept for the health services part-thats a bit off a mess.

I don't think Brady has anything to do with it because as far as any of the Union-heads can see, it's an initiative of Dominic O'Keeffe's. Anyway, if you really don't want it, vote no in the forthcoming referendum. If it's a no vote, there's no money to build it, therefore not happening. And if there's a no vote and it's still built, it'll be the University building it and not the SU, so the levy won't be increasing.

pretty*monster

panda100 wrote:

I dont think students should be this naive.Believe me this student centre is being built,whether we want it or not.As you said the last student centre was years in the making,Well this student centre has been in the piepline for at least ten years.You dont come up with these sorta plans over night!That leaflet in the observer is to get us all excited with its lovely colourful pics etc so we dont mind paying 75euro a year for a cinema we dont need. Brady will make this centre how he wants to make it-i.e americanise it. I dont think the old student centre need to be changed at all-well cept for the health services part-thats a bit off a mess.

Hey, I consider myself to have a healthy dose of suspicion and, dare I say, outright loathing for the powers that be but you're coming off a tad paranoid.



Allow me to repeat myself: There will be a referendum on the issue of raising the levy.
If it fails to pass the levy CANNOT be raised and there will be no new student centre.

Dominic O'Keefe cane to two meetings of SU council in the last month or so and looked absolutely heartbroken that no one had any ideas to throw in. If you want your say, get on to him.

panda100

I just think its a waste of money that all!Thats good that there's gonna b a referendum on it

Mr.Nice Guy

Swimming pool = Hot girls in bikinis =

singingstranger

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Swimming pool = Hot girls in bikinis =

The real Ned Flanders = appalled at this ideology.

snickerpuss

SebtheBum wrote:

Things which need funds and updates which are integral to academic progression, and therefore the fcukin priority of the university:
Library (nowhere near enough books - if you think there are, go to Trinity's. It'll blow your mind, man)

The reason that Trinity have so many books is that under the copyright act of 1911 they have to get a copy of every book published, for free.
So its not cos UCD are too lazy, Trinity just lucked out with that act.
(Can you guess my mams a librarian?)

singingstranger

dajaffa wrote:

I do think that provision of facilities for CTN would be a waste of time though. Never going to happen.

CTWhen? Arf. :rolleyes:

dajaffa

I don't mind the whole thing in principle, but the fact that the debating chamber will have 400+ capacity while the cinema + theatre only get 135 is ridiculous. Nowhere near 400 go to most debates, and they could use astra or ThL when the big celebs come. It would be more logical to try and combine 2 or three of them and make them better.

I think the audiovisual thing is gr8. Bfm hope to get an all-year round liscence eventually, so this would improve standards + listenership greatly. I do think that provision of facilities for CTN would be a waste of time though. Never going to happen.

John_C

holly2000 wrote:

Have you ever been to a play in dramsoc? Or a debate? Or a film run by a society? Or anything else? Dramsoc is already 5 nights a week; the debates are 1 night each; filmsoc are 2 or 3 nights; scifi I think are the same. How is all this going to fit in the astra hall?.

I have been to all these things (though I've only been to one play) and they all fit fine in their current homes. The lecture theatre's are mostly idle in the evenings when debates and films are held and dramsoc have their own space. Building seperate facilities, two of which are next to identicle to a lecture hall, which would be busy during the evening and idle during the day just duplicates the existing facilities which are busy during the day and idle during the evening.

holly2000 wrote:

Its pretty clear that the requirements for a meeting are not the same as for a cinema, which are not the same as for a play.

And we currently have facilities for all 3, save for the quality of the films on show is a bit poor.

holly2000 wrote:

Thats like saying we should only have a couple of pitches, and we dont need separate pitches for gaelic rugby and soccer because they can use the same ones.

Rugby and soccer will be sharing a stadium from 2007 because it makes sence not to duplicate facilities. Rugby will use it for their winter season and soccer for the summer season. It's a good analogy.

zap

the specs are only an outline if you think 135 cinema is too small and 400 debating is too big talk to domonic

singingstranger

It's probably worth sticking in Dominic's email, dominic.okeeffe@ucd.ie, at this point - please, everyone, if you've got suggestions, send them his way.

holly2000

John_C wrote:

Rugby and soccer will be sharing a stadium from 2007 because it makes sence not to duplicate facilities. Rugby will use it for their winter season and soccer for the summer season. It's a good analogy.

It is a good analogy, but not the way you use it - dramsoc has five shows a week, two of them on evenings that there are debates, the rest of them on evenings when there are films/meetings etc. The reason that rugby and soccer can share a ground is because they are not on at the same time of the year, never mind at the same exact time!!! This does not apply in this case. In addition, most theatres and rooms are becoming increasingly unavailable due to lectures/classes etc. Its already been said by other people, services arent taking bookings any longer the way they used to. This is a fact. Dramsoc is the only group with their own space, and even at that its far behind what other colleges have. I dont understand the big argument-we have the physical land that many other colleges can only dream about, clubs and societies need more space now, and will do so increasingly as the academic stuff gets bigger. There will be a time when the little space available in theatres around the campus will no longer be possible. Why should we wait until then, and why not move towards having more facilities now-if you dont want them, dont vote for them, but facilities that benefit clubs and societies benefit everyone. Its so short sighted to say we're just about ok now, so we should leave it. Why not be a bit progressive. Loads of people put so much into clubs and societies, and loads of people get so much out of it. Nothing wrong with having the best of things if its going to improve our time here, and you always have the option of not voting for it. I wonder if everyone who doesnt vote for it will refuse to use it when it comes, though....

IHatePoorPeople

singingstranger wrote:

It's probably worth sticking in Dominic's email, dominic.okeeffe@ucd.ie, at this point - please, everyone, if you've got suggestions, send them his way.

Don't expect a reply though, I got no response at all from my perfectly reasonable request for additional information:

Dear tool of the elite,
what's this going to cost the proletariat student body? I don't want to see any more "student centre levy"-like charges on my fee form. They screw up my calculations when I'm figuring out what to put on the fee transfer form from my research group's account. While we're on the topic, why are we still being charged that levy? The bloody thing has been built already. It's the considered opinion of my fellow students and I that it's going toward lining the pockets of wannabe-bourgeois union heads and producing glossy propaganda.

Where is the proposed location for this sink-hole for my hard-earned, tax free scholarship money? Do you plan to consume another of we persecuted car owners' increasingly rare car parks to build this ugly and unwanted folly? The current student centre serves well enough as a gathering place for the common man; don't try to impose this monument to student disenfranchisement on us, we would prefer our money was spent on doubling the grant and other more realistic uses.
Yours respectfully,
IHatePoorPeople

John_C

holly2000 wrote:

I dont understand the big argument-we have the physical land that many other colleges can only dream about, clubs and societies need more space now, and will do so increasingly as the academic stuff gets bigger.

The problem isn't a lack of land, it's the money the buildings will cost.

As the amount of academic stuff gets bigger the number of lecture theatres will increase. At the moment the big lecture theatre here in engineering is empty about four evenings out of five and that pattern seems similar accross most of the college. If there's a problem with the way services take bookings or anything else, then we should solve these problems but I don't accept that there is a lack of space in the evenings for debates or meetings when I can see with my own two eyes that there are plenty of classrooms and lecture theatres free.

I'm in favour of introducing new facilities and services instead of building a better version of what's already available. I'm definatly in favour of a swimming pool and I wouldn't mind a cinema if it was run like any other cinema as opposed to a projector and screen showing old film, because we already have that. There's also a need for a restaurant or cafe which sells heathy food instead of sandwiches or chips but I'd rather see one of the existing chippers close instead of opening something new.

Samos

tintinr35 wrote:

wonder how much that nice glossy brochure cost???

I heard it was v-expensive; somewhere in the region of €5000, which is scandalous for a couple of clip-art pictures. Speaking of swimming pools, there is very little choice on the southside. I'm thinking about perfecting my breast-stroke [!] so what are the best ones and how much are they for a session? Does anyone know much about the pool at Marian College, Lansdowne Rd., which would be the closest for me?

John_C wrote:

There's also a need for a restaurant or cafe which sells heathy food instead of sandwiches or chips but I'd rather see one of the existing chippers close instead of opening something new.

I happened to be in the O'Briens in the sports centre on Friday (before they closed up for good), and I noticed that there is an intention to create a healthy-food restaurant where the sports bar once resided. There weren't many details, but if I recall correctly it could open as soon as April, and will have "comfortable modern furnishings". Anybody know anything more?

John_C

Samos wrote:

I happened to be in the O'Briens in the sports centre on Friday (before they closed up for good), and I noticed that there is an intention to create a healthy-food restaurant where the sports bar once resided. There weren't many details, but if I recall correctly it could open as soon as April, and will have "comfortable modern furnishings". Anybody know anything more?

Cool, I hope it stays open in the evenings. It'd be the ideal spot for one of those cafe bars you hear so much about. A cafe by day and in the evenings a big projector screen drops to show the sport.

Blush_01

holly2000 wrote:

And on that basis, there are spars in clonskeagh and fosters avenue, so we don't need a shop; there's a chipper beside the montrose, so we don't need restaurants; there are sports pitches in deerpark, so we don't need them either; and ashtons and o sheas in clonskeagh are also only 10 minutes away, so we should close the bars.

Now you're just being bloody obtuse. There isn't that much demand for a pool, otherwise UCD would've let McDonalds put it in years ago when they offered to in exchange for rights to have an outlet on campus. There's a pool in Glenalbyn, on the 46a route that has been used by clubs (e.g. DiveClub) for years. There's a pool in Blackrock, I think it's on Newtown Park Avenue, or close to it, definitely within reasonable walking distance. How many people are so desperate to swim on campus that they haven't made a move to get it before now? We have facilities here that they don't have in Limerick or Galway. Hence the reason we don't need them on campus. :rolleyes:

holly2000 wrote:

Like I said, now we move into the world of 'lets put this in and leave this out'. Have you ever been to a play in dramsoc? Or a debate? Or a film run by a society? Or anything else? Dramsoc is already 5 nights a week; the debates are 1 night each; filmsoc are 2 or 3 nights; scifi I think are the same. How is all this going to fit in the astra hall? Thats already 11 nights a week where there are only 5 nights available. And thats not counting any of the other societies who want to run something-should they suffer because the bigger ones want to use the space? Its pretty clear that the requirements for a meeting are not the same as for a cinema, which are not the same as for a play. And what about gigs? Freshers Ball, The Coral? We cant fit everything into 'no space', if we want to have events we need somewhere to put them. Thats like saying we should only have a couple of pitches, and we dont need separate pitches for gaelic rugby and soccer because they can use the same ones. Maybe, but not all at the same time, so as a result we'd have less teams and training. Same for societies really, if we dont have the space and facilities some of them are going to suffer, usually the smaller ones. If dramsoc used the astra hall as their venue nobody else could use it, because theyd be there permanently.

Have you ever been to a DramSoc play yourself? Yeah, they have a play on five nights a week. They also have a play on five lunchtimes a week. Funnily, they put it on in their OWN THEATRE, with more equipment than they even use. They have lights there they'll never need. They have a brand new seating rig. Years ago, the theatre they're in was society offices. So that brings you down to six events in five nights. Still doesn't fit? Well put the movies on in the Bin in Ag where they've been successfully screening movies for years. And how many more nights does that free up? Well by your calculations, all you're left with by that stage is Debates. And guess what - the debates on a weekly basis don't fill Th. M or P. What's the capacity of Th. P? Less than 400? You bet! For big debates they use Th. L. And the capacity of Th. L? More than 600. So what do you do with a purpose-built debating space with 400 capacity for big debates that attract more than 600 people? Cut people in half so a bit of everyone gets to see it? Nonsense. You'll still be turning people away. Regardless of what you do or don't have, people will have to juggle both their schedules and the schedules of others. Wednesday and Thursday nights are the most popular for doing things. Do you want thousands of spaces on campus just on the off-chance that thousands of people all want to do something at the same time on a night in the future? That's ridiculous. It's impractical and impracticable.

By the way, do you know where some of the sports teams train? In front of Centra. Yet I've never seen a match played there in the two and a half years I've been in UCD. They don't even train on the games pitches. Compromise in action? Looks like it!

Now, I'm tired of hearing people complaining about not being able to get a room for society stuff. I've been involved in societies from the fresher's week of first year. I've been on committee in societies since first year. The only time you have trouble getting a room after 6pm for society stuff is if you don't book in advance. People are so stuck on the Arts Block that they balk at the prospect of using one of the rooms in Eng - what makes you think they'll be more willing to walk to the Student Centre that's further away? People are lazy as sin and if you can change the human race, fair play, but excuse my scepticism. If you're holding a small event prior to 6pm, you wander and find an empty room if services won't give you one. It happens all the time. People randomly study in empty rooms. Society committee meetings happen in random empty rooms. Besides, there are meeting rooms in the Student Centre that are idle most of the time. When we're not using what we have to full capacity, why should we extend facilities that aren't even reaching their potential as it is? There's no NEED for what's being proposed. What's more, while it might be nice to have SOME aspects of what's being proposed, it'd be great if the things we already have were used first, before we jump the gun.

zap

Mcdonalds never made that offer - good old rumour mill

tintinr35

Samos wrote:

. I'm thinking about perfecting my breast-stroke

i hear coppers on a monday night can be good for that!:eek:

student-type

I think additional student facilities are badly needed in UCD I also think most of the above criticisms are valid but as pretty monster and others have pointed out the plans aren't concrete yet, and changes can be made.

Regardless there is apsolutely no way I would consider voting yes to a proposal to increase the student centre levey to €150 (not part of the registration fee so not covered by the grant) considering the costs of coming to UCD in the first place. Hugh Brady and the rest of those cowboys wax lyrical about the UCD experience and our world class university. Student facilities are a key part of a university and the university should provide them! Big companies don't have whip rounds to pay for staff gyms, creches and other facilities, since UCD was only too quick to embrace the market led model of education surely Mr. Brady couldn't object to shelling out for a swimming pool?

A million quid creating UCD-D, clearly there's money to burn

zap

the levy would be 70 euro next yr, 100 the year after and 150 after that - so its not like it would jst go to 150 next yr - also corp sponsorship is an option

scop

What is important here is that we can brag about the size of our Student Centre.

zap

no its not - the college badly needs these new facilities

Chinafoot

zap wrote:

also corp sponsorship is an option

Ah yes, corporate sponsorship. There is zero doubt in my mind that this will happen. This university is becoming one massive business venture with profit taking preference over education.

I'm with Blush and Seb on this one. I won't repeat all they've said, because I most certainly couldn't put it as eloquently as they have, but I most definitely agree that there is no desperate need for these facilities.

The budgets for the library may be a totally separate issue but tbh I don't see why they couldn't propose to use money from this levy to fund student facilities that are desperately needed because clearly the money isn't there.

The library is an absolute disgrace, as is the computer situation. These are the issues that matter. We are in college for academic purposes at the end of the day. A cinema isn't going to help us to gain our qualifications!

The college should be improving its educational facilities by every means possible.

tintinr35

dunno if its true or not but i heard that a few years ago maccy d's offered to build ucd a swimming pool if they let them open a branch on campus!!

scop

zap wrote:

no its not - the college badly needs these new facilities

The death of irony, perhaps?

Cool Mo D

I am quite surprised at some of the posts above. It's obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes that the college could badly do with these facilities.

It strikes me that many of the people here just don't care about the work that the societies put into UCD, and are oppposing the new centre to try and piss off Hugh Brady. Well, I can can tell you now that he couldn't give 2 ****s if this goes ahead or not, and the only people who stand to lose if this doesnt happen are the suteudents of UCD.

UCD wouldn't be half the college it is today without active societies and clubs. It is the easiest way to meet people in college, and develop a lifelong interest in something worthwhile, whether it is politics, debating, sports or just having a good time. The social side of college is just as important as academic achievement, and the benefits will last longer then any degree.

The problem is that we do not have enough space for the activities being run. Dramsoc is one of the few societies that have their own home, and they had to fight tooth and nail for badly needed equipment to host the ISDA's last year. Someone earlier mentioned that glenalbyn pool is only 10 minutes away. Thats lovely, but totally useless at the same time. Glenalbyn is a public pool with its own swimming clubs. The Sub Aqua club use it for pool practise, and the only time they can get it at is 9 -10 pm one night a week. It isn't exactly ideal. Even buildings on campus have less room. It is hard to book a room in the arts block now. It is impossible to book a room in the quinn school - it simply isn't allowed. More facilities are needed now, and will be even more so in the years to come.

Even the money isn't much to ask 150 euro a year is not a lot of money, no matter which way you slice it. It may not seem cheap when you're in college, but it is not much considering the massive financial advantages going to college gives you. The amount of money we spend on our education is dwarfed by the amount that it gives back to us in years to come.

John_C

Cool Mo D wrote:

It strikes me that many of the people here just don't care about the work that the societies put into UCD, and are oppposing the new centre to try and piss off Hugh Brady.

It's also true that a lot of us (well, me anyway) are very active in some clubs and societies. A lot of the suggestions being made are valid and some aren't.

Cool Mo D wrote:

It is impossible to book a room in the quinn school - it simply isn't allowed.

Bingo, let's not spend millions duplicating facilities which are already sitting idle. It seems that the SU could save a few million by getting those lecture theatres opened up in the evenings. If we're to build another student centre, let it be filled with new things, not things we already have.

The_Minister

student-type wrote:

I think additional student facilities are badly needed in UCD I also think most of the above criticisms are valid but as pretty monster and others have pointed out the plans aren't concrete yet, and changes can be made.

Regardless there is apsolutely no way I would consider voting yes to a proposal to increase the student centre levey to €150 (not part of the registration fee so not covered by the grant) considering the costs of coming to UCD in the first place. Hugh Brady and the rest of those cowboys wax lyrical about the UCD experience and our world class university. Student facilities are a key part of a university and the university should provide them! Big companies don't have whip rounds to pay for staff gyms, creches and other facilities, since UCD was only too quick to embrace the market led model of education surely Mr. Brady couldn't object to shelling out for a swimming pool?

A million quid creating UCD-D, clearly there's money to burn

Why would UCDD pay? They provide the teaching we provide the leisure.

student-type

Cool Mo D wrote:

150 euro a year is not a lot of money, no matter which way you slice it. It may not seem cheap when you're in college, but it is not much considering the massive financial advantages going to college gives you. The amount of money we spend on our education is dwarfed by the amount that it gives back to us in years to come.

€150 = three or four text books,

thats three or four text books i currently can't afford ( and can't get out of the library cos it simply doesn't have the resources to meet demand)

My degree won't make me loads of money in years to come unless i get a decent grade in it. Don't thing funding a new student centre will help me achieve that.