MMA - Sport or self defence ?

Quillo

Dragan wrote:

MMA = SPORT
Jesus guys, deal with it. The majority of people train MMA as a sport. They don't care about knifes and stuff.

I was wondering how many of the MMA subscribers to this list agree ?

I thought the MMA community were very much of the view that they were training in a realistic form of self defence ? If it is just regarded as a sport then I can certainly see how they would have no interest in including weapons.

Dragan

just because a boxer can use his skills in the street does not mean he feels he is training in self defence.

Nor does the fact that what he does is a sport make it any less valuable as a self defence mechanism.

dlofnep

MMA is a sport that can also translate perfectly fine for self defense.

That is the answer.

Quillo

Thanks.
Clear and simple reply. Hard to beat.

MaxBax

i wish i had some weapons so i could kill the people that don't understand what penfold said. only kidding, i love all you guys.

Michael O Leary

dlofnep wrote:

MMA is a sport that can also translate perfectly fine for self defense.

That is the answer.

Hi John,

I read in Renzo Gracies book on BJJ that gloves were brought into the UFC to protect the hands of MMA competitors who kept injuring them when punching their opponents. This would seem to be an example of sporting MMA not translating into self-defense as gloves will not be worn in the street.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

MaxBax

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi John,

I read in Renzo Gracies book on BJJ that gloves were brought into the UFC to protect the hands of MMA competitors who kept injuring them when punching their opponents. This would seem to be an example of sporting MMA not translating into self-defense as gloves will not be worn in the street.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

OMG that proves conclusively mma is stupid.

Michael O Leary

Hi Max Bax,

If I thought MMA was stupid I would not have bought the book, I would not have attended the Matt Thornton seminar and I certaintly would not consider doing some training in the new SBG in Tallaght this summer. However I have "a lot" of respect for MMA but I just like to be precise in what I am talking about.

Regards,;)

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

MaxBax

michael,

sorry i was just being a bit silly. Have you punched anyone as hard as you can with out a glove on the face?

MaxBax

www.maxbax.com

Tim_Murphy

This would seem to be an example of sporting MMA not translating into self-defense as gloves will not be worn in the street.

News Flash:Punching a person bare knuckle in the head will hurt your hands.
Does that mean that punching does not translate into self defence?

MaxBax

Is Michael making the point that the kratty people could punch bare fisted without damaging their hand? Through superior technique? Better conditioned hands? Surely, it neither puts person a at an advantage over person B?

Secondly, in an mma fight, you may expect to land 50 punches. in a STREET FIGHT (c) I'd hope you'd aim to strike less.

dlofnep

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi John,

I read in Renzo Gracies book on BJJ that gloves were brought into the UFC to protect the hands of MMA competitors who kept injuring them when punching their opponents. This would seem to be an example of sporting MMA not translating into self-defense as gloves will not be worn in the street.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Hi Michael,

The gloves were brought in to protect fighter's from breaking their hands. This in the long run meant fighters could fight more frequently and that the governing bodies would be more pleased, eventually allowing the UFC to be sanctioned by the athetlic state comissions in the US. That is why.

As far as it not translating into self-defense - I don't see what your point might be? But a punch to the face, is still a punch to the face with a glove or not. Not wearing gloves would allow you to slide your hands in for chokes alot easier also. It doesn't affect the actual application of what's taught in MMA to be honest.

Dave Joyce

Wow, here we go again, are all MMA guys so insecure?? NOW, before you jump down my throat try reading this correctly, I have NEVER said MMA is ineffective and in that type of event (MMA event that is), I don't think in the vast majority of cases a properly trained MMA fighter will be defeated by someone schooled in just one area of fighting. However, apart from the essential 3 ranges, you must also regularly train awareness, pre-emptive striking (which has no place in a sport and rightly so), weapons and multiple opponents.

Now that been said, why must it be for MMA guys to try to constantly make MMA all things to ALL people, as I said are ye that insecure?? It seems to me that unless MMA is viewed as the Ultimate (pun intended:)) fighting sport AND the most realitic form of self protection, then others views are misguided, naive or best of all paranoid! What makes it different is the mindset. What I mean by that is that you are going into a contest in a ring/cage and not expecting (as I've said before, yawn) to be possibley sucker punched by your opponent while listening to the ref's instructions, or the ref giving you a belt of one of the water bottles or the other guys corner jumping in to the fight too. I have fought in the cage/ring a few times and its a difficult job focusing your mind in a serious contest on one opponent BUT you DEFINATELY don't want to be so tunnel visioned on the street. Slightly different mindset.

judomick

mma is a sport but the objective of this sport is to beat an opponent in a fight its basically a fight with rules to protect the fighters against lasting damage,

mma=fighting

self defence=fighting

therefore
mma=self defence

bit of monty python rationale there but i hope you guys get the point

Roper

Dave,
You've said that ad nauseum. And we've heard the replies ad nauseum. There's an 'agree to disagree' element here that we're all missing out on. Jesus it's getting tedious.

Enjoy it folks, know why you're training, bring the love to it every time and that is 100% ALL THAT MATTERS. Except of course for when someone gets a dose of that cognitive dissonance I mentioned in another thread.;)

Cheers,
Barry

MaxBax

I take your point Dave Joyce, but I'll just paraphrase John Kavanagh "why would someone who fights in MMA, who has tunnel vision for those few mins of the bout carry this tunnel vision onto THE STREET (c)? They're not robots.

Dave do you accept that being attacked is an unlikely event?
Dave do you accept that a reasonable mma fighter (who or what that is i'm not sure) will be competent enough, if he relies on his instincts and MMA training, to escape A STREET (c) situation with his life and vitals intact?

Dave or are you saying all MA, TMA and MMA and anyone in between, has to train specifically for street encounters and NEEDS to train in an environment where AWARENESS, MULTIPLE ATTACKERS AND WEAPONS OR MARTIAL ARTIST DESTRUCTION Are used to be able to cope?

FiannaGym.com

MMA is a the second best form of self defence.

Only one other martial art is better for self defence, its called "sprinting" I know a guy who knows a guy and I'm going to go to West Africa to train this summer, thats where the "real" sprint training is done.

Peace

dlofnep

moses kiptanui for the win.

Michael O Leary

Hi Tim,

I think punching is a valid way of defending yourself if done properly however there is a difference between hurting and breaking your hands.

Hi Max,

No worries about being silly. I am the master of being silly at times and some of my earlier posts make me cringe. I was in a fight with 3 guys and I cannot remember what I did specifically, only that they ran away and I hit my training partner in the face once pretty hard (by accident) with no gloves on. I don't know if that answers your question. It was an interesting point that you made about the amount of times you would punch someone in the ring versus the street and it gives me something to think about. Thanks.

I don't know about "kratty" so I cannot comment however in Wing Tsun we would advocate punching with a verticle fist as we feel it provides better structural alignment when fighting barehand and therefore you are less likely to injure your hand. It is also basically identical to the way the old bareknuckel boxers punched years ago.

Hi John,

I don't know much about MMA fights and that is why I put forward third party information. I suppose my point would be if the punching methods employed in MMA competitions mean you break your fist when punching barehand it would seem that it does not translate well to self-defence.

Hi Dave,

I agree with the maxim "form follows function" and if the function is to get into a ring then the form will be the specific training methods. If you train for the street then the training methods will need to be "somewhat" different. I do agree that the major difference will be the mindset.

Regards all,(its nice that we have moved on from the whole paranoid thingy)

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Millionaire

MMA is an excellent form of SD though it could be an OUTSTANDING form of SD if trained in a different way (as in SD being your training goal).

If your MMA cage straegy is to take to guy to the ground, great, On the street if this is your SD strategy, there is a good chance your head will be kicked like a football if the attacker has any buddies, least the lack of a nice soft mat under your knees.

If someone pulls a weapon and your only a sport MMA man, with no weapons defences... you will be a gonner.

remember your spending weeks preparing and training for a sport fight be it boxing, thai, or MMA, you probably might know about your fighter and even what their fav moves are.

on the street you do not have that advanage, street comes when you least expect.

I read in a book by Paul Vunak when he was training the SEALS, one night 5 of them went to a biker bar, and they chatted up some chicks, the bikers did not like this and decided to start a fight with the SEALS. 3 of the SEALs were serious Wrestlers with many years experience. the bikers started the 3 SEALS clinched, and took 3 bikers to the ground, into submission, and then the whole bar , jumped on the wreslters and they all including Vunak , and Tom Cruse (both JKD men) were left fighting 17 bikers, and they all ended up in intensive care for a week.

Match fights are not the street.

Re MMA the only thing I cannot do yet....and I will learn and master the basics within the next 2 years is ground fight against a trained ground fighter. I have enough tools in my tool box to give a good account on the ground against a thug, and probaly beat him.

You cannot Assume anything for the street.

And do not assume as we said many times, us SD guys are training everything you are and probaly more.

Look at Dave Joyce , never met him but I know as well as SD, he is a kung fu man (fire dragon...did me 2 years stint in fire dragon too). Thai boxer, kali , and also SD. now thats alot of training to do, and he probaly know alot more that any of us on here about SD and what works on the street.

dlofnep

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi John,

I don't know much about MMA fights and that is why I put forward third party information. I suppose my point would be if the punching methods employed in MMA competitions mean you break your fist when punching barehand it would seem that it does not translate well to self-defence.

Michael, you don't break your hand everytime you fight without gloves - It was just a safety precaution. Boxer wear gloves, but it doesn't mean they can't punch without them.

Millionaire

Mike Tyson probably is in the top 5% of punchers in pro boxing and he broke his hand ina street fight in NYC 3 years ago.

Try hitting a heavy bag in a Thai camp, bare fisted and punching full blast... ouch!!!

MaxBax

yes millionaire, if we all hit as hard as mike tyson can, we all get drunk, and try and stick our fists through someone else's skull, we will probably break our hands too.

dlofnep

Not me max, I have a hook for a hand.

MaxBax

i've a hand for a hook.

dlofnep

Nice.

FiannaGym.com

I damaged my hand punching through a Harbinger glove, they are probably the most padded MMA gloves I have used. I remeber the punch that hurt, so I though "S**t quick palm shot him!" Threw on palm shot and then thought "Forget that I only have to do this 2 or 3 times more", I did and I won.

In a street fight that thought porcess would be alot easier.

Its gas that TMA guys get extra magical powers in street fights and MMA guys only become weaker. I suppose given the video evidence MMA must be amazing considering that little fact.

Peace

Millionaire

FiannaGym.com wrote:

I damaged my hand punching through a Harbinger glove, they are probably the most padded MMA gloves I have used. I remeber the punch that hurt, so I though "S**t quick palm shot him!" Threw on palm shot and then thought "Forget that I only have to do this 2 or 3 times more", I did and I won.

In a street fight that thought porcess would be alot easier.

Its gas that TMA guys get extra magical powers in street fights and MMA guys only become weaker. I suppose given the video evidence MMA must be amazing considering that little fact.

Peace

jaysus pearse. have you been on the piss all afternoon.

what s your specifice point?

that fight must have been in slow motion if you had time to think all that! lol!

Dave Joyce

First things first guys, I JUST asked that people read my post properly first, but I feel either deliberately or by just NOT reading it, some guys have totally missed my point. SO PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY!! Before I elaborate, could the lads who disagree with me consider one further point ie the guys you are arguing most with Gerry, Michael and myself don't have any problem with MMA, I have trained MMA and both Gerry and Michael have both expressed an interest in gaining/improving their groundgame. So I would ask, who is the more openminded???

bit of monty python rationale there but i hope you guys get the point

Ahh not really Mick, as you need to re-read my post, I never questioned the value/quality of MMA but I said the mindset is DIFFERENT. Btw, I would regard the mindset in Muaythai (which I friggin well teach) to be different AS WELL.

Dave or are you saying all MA, TMA and MMA and anyone in between, has to train specifically for street encounters and NEEDS to train in an environment where AWARENESS, MULTIPLE ATTACKERS AND WEAPONS OR MARTIAL ARTIST DESTRUCTION Are used to be able to cope?

No Max, not if one has no real desire to do so, BUT (sorry if I'm boring you Roper:)) if you don't train it then you can't expect to pull it off. Case in point, I train JUST enough to be able to cope if things went to ground on the street, BUT do I think I can roll and sub/do well with any of you guys who are good on the ground, NO!! and I think it would be pretty insulting for me (when I only train groundwork in a limited way) to tell you guys how you should approach sub wrestling contest. Sure I can give an opinion, but I won't TELL you where its at!!

MMA is a the second best form of self defence

Fianna, I know you'll probley comeback with, that was just a throwaway comment or something BUT I think this typifies the type of insecurity I was talking about. How come you can't post MMA is a valid/worthwhile form of self defence, but no its the second best.

FiannaGym.com

Dave Joyce wrote:

Fianna, I know you'll probley comeback with, that was just a throwaway comment or something BUT I think this typifies the type of insecurity I was talking about. How come you can't post MMA is a valid/worthwhile form of self defence, but no its the second best.

The reason I pposted that comment was because MMA and Sprinting are the two best forms of self defence, with sprinting being way better! So MMA is only second best, I train both as it happens. Before you over react and go ballistic on me thats all a alight hearted joke.

I think its great that "insecurity" is being thrown around lately. I have often beleived that "insecurity" is part of the paranoia that fuels soem peoples need to train SD. I mean, you could train SD because you think its great fun, just like me training drunken boxing, but if your "need" to train SD is because you beleive you are going to be attacked regularly well then I think that is insecure.

Another example of insecurty would be this...

Dave Joyce wrote:

Quote:
bit of monty python rationale there but i hope you guys get the point

Ahh not really Mick, as you need to re-read my post, I never questioned the value/quality of MMA but I said the mindset is DIFFERENT. Btw, I would regard the mindset in Muaythai (which I friggin well teach) to be different AS WELL.

Because you thought your post was under attack when really, judomick was talking about his own reasoning. Could this sort of "I'm under attack" mentality spread into other areas of a persons life?

Millionaire wrote:

jaysus pearse. have you been on the piss all afternoon.

what s your specifice point?

that fight must have been in slow motion if you had time to think all that! lol!

Sorry my point was this... The fact that I had hurt my hand had no real effect on the fight. Just like in the last UFC Rich Franklen fought 3 5 min rounds with a broken left hand (he's a southpaw). So worrying about breaking your hand because you hit the guy so hard in the face or head should really be the least of a persons worries.

Peace

Dave Joyce

Welcome to Planet Pearse once again, where we answer all questions as I see fit and I don't finish threads where I get in a corner, for example, where I put some perfectly reasonable questions to you and you just didn't reply. Fair enough if you've had enough of debating but to not say so is kinda rude

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054893358&page=6

Before you over react and go ballistic on me thats all a alight hearted joke.

As I said how you would reply, it was just a light hearted joke/throwaway comment.

I think its great that "insecurity" is being thrown around lately. I have often beleived that "insecurity" is part of the paranoia that fuels soem peoples need to train SD. I mean, you could train SD because you think its great fun, just like me training drunken boxing, but if your "need" to train SD is because you beleive you are going to be attacked regularly well then I think that is insecure.

Well, I think your insecurity is there for everyone to see in the above statement but I will answer it anyway although my comments will probley be misread/ or something else will be brought up to deflect. When I trained MMA, as when I now train Muaythai or FMA or RSBD, I do so because I enjoy it (I know thats a bit hard to get your head around but there you go) and in the event of being in situation where I have to defend myself or my family, I am prepared. Now, if you regard that as been paranoid, then fair play to you, I just regard this as been prepared IN CASE it happens. If you were to fight someone in the future (say for a title) and you knew them to be an inferiour opponent for whatever reason, would neglect your cardio for example because you would know you have superior standup/clinch/ground. Now, I wouldn't assume to answer that for you BUT if you say you wouldn't neglect your cardio would that then be paranoia on your part or just good preparation??

Because you thought your post was under attack when really, judomick was talking about his own reasoning. Could this sort of "I'm under attack" mentality spread into other areas of a persons life?

Wow, your powers of reasoning are something to behold. No, I didn't think my post was under attack from Mick, I was TRYING to explain the difference in mindset between the two training methods. I notice you didn't quote OR ADDRESS the mindset I was referring to?????

Now Fianna that I have answered your questions perhaps we can stick with the subject in hand and you might answer what I've posted in this thread and reply to what I've said about different mindsets and not training in some areas of training (which you have highlighted to others on many occasions). Please try to come up with something better than "he said this in reply SO he MUST be paranoid".. and the like!

FiannaGym.com

You see Dave there you go again...

Dave Joyce wrote:

When I trained MMA, as when I now train Muaythai or FMA or RSBD, I do so because I enjoy it (I know thats a bit hard to get your head around but there you go)

When infact I said...

Fiannagym.com wrote:

I mean, you could train SD because you think its great fun

You also said...

Dave Joyce wrote:

I know you'll probley comeback with, that was just a throwaway comment or something BUT I think this typifies the type of insecurity I was talking about.

Part one, "I know" - nonsense you had no clue.
Part two, "Just a throwaway comment or soemthing" that is quite different to a "a alight hearted joke." And I stand by it, it may have been a joke but the truth still holds.

Dave Joyce wrote:

Wow, your powers of reasoning are something to behold. No, I didn't think my post was under attack from Mick, I was TRYING to explain the difference in mindset between the two training methods. I notice you didn't quote OR ADDRESS the mindset I was referring to?????

Your still confused about everything that went on there. I didnt say anything about "mindsets", your defence of them or anything else. You replied to judomicks comment about monthy python reasoning as though it was idrected at yourself, it wasnt it was directed at himself.

And Finally if thinking I'm insecure makes you happy then go with it brother.

P.S. All those classes in critical thinking obviously did me no good, I think I have to go back and relearn basic grammer before I can continue to have "debates" with you dave. I got fed up with the last thread for the same reason.

Peace

MaxBax

you should both come to the next boards' sd/ma meet up and have a face to face. too much misunderstanding going on here.

judomick

dave,
my reasoning is clear for me, if others dont agree thats cool for me bjj is a proven form of self defence, thats as much as i need

i think being sucker punched etc, gives ur body the same reaction as being ina good training atmosphere namely adrenalin, and i think by sparring and training hard you let your body aclimatise to this function, the dreaded street maybe under different circumstances but the effect on your body remains pretty much the same, a punch in the head is a punch in the head regardless of where it is, if your not expecting it yeah its a little different but still the same pressures and forces are there, awareness is not somethin you learn in a class its somethin you gain with experience imo, as regards knife defence etc, well ive never been attacked with a knife does it mean i wont be i hope so but if it does happen ill run , if i cant run well ill assume they really want to stab me and they probably just have , i cant train how to react to being stabbed safely so ill see what happens

sidenote: i have been shot at from close range and didnt get hit walked away safe and sound thank darwin, so i guess my sprints are not too shabby

Millionaire

just about coming across real violent street situations..

as most of ya know, I am living in North East Thailand.
land of the similes. yes Thais are very friendly to us Franangs (foreigners).
amongst themselves they kill each other.

Let me explain...

We got every 2 or 3 weeks , in the area, there is Muay Thai fights, normally it is a sort of festival on a saturday night, thai boxing ring in one corner of a field, other side of a field a Thai pop band, with chicks dancing on a stage. stall in between , where you throw darts at ballons and win a teddy bear! lol.

well thais, drink whiskey like mad, and at these events, there usually at some stage is mass, gang drunken violence.

Last night , from my camp Nong Kee Payuath, one of the lads was fighing, I was now in the blue corner, with the trainer, giving support...mass fighting breaks, out. about 20 whiskey drunk lads trying to kill each other. 3 people get bottled ...bloody everywhere, and someone pulls a gun and is drunkenly waving a pistol, about 10 feet from my head! LOL. and our lad is still boxing away in the ring, (he lost, near got his leg broke with kick to back of knee, and could not walk)... now heres me thinking, my KM gun diarm was going to be used!!!

Point is, if your MMA sport fighter, and your in the middle of that fight, and you take some to the clinch and to the ground, you would have been dead meat... you would have got bottled to bits.

and those fights happen at most Muay Thai gigs I have been at.

I stand back and watch!

Millionaire

About insecure...

I am not insecure, why should I be?

I love to train RBSD, and I love to do Muay Thai. and learn any other MA, that takes my fancy.

I am starting to think, and agree with what Dave Joyce says, I think some of the MMA lands on here are insecure...

why...

Cause they consistently (some of them) want to put down say for the street situation , what SD guys want to practice.

I am not sure why.?

Ok as I said I do not have bjj yet...but I am almost certaing I am probably training strikes and clinch, daily harder than most MMA lads on here.

Not sure why they have this problem?

MaxBax

Point is, if your MMA sport fighter, and your in the middle of that fight, and you take some to the clinch and to the ground, you would have been dead meat... you would have got bottled to bits.

sorry i misunderstand. are you saying a mma sports fighter would be more likely to be in the middle of that fight that a non-mma-sports fighter? are you saying, a mma-sports-fighter would surely go to the clinch and then ground with some random drunk thais? I'm wondering where this line of fixed reasoning has come? What makes the mma-sports-fighter more or less likely to do anything. i'd assume the mma sports fighter would get to a vantage point and look at the rioting from a comfortable distance, possibly commenting on thai person a's lack of clinch skillz or whatever.

judomick

Millionaire,
so what did you do with the gun when u disarmed him?

MaxBax

popped a cap in his ass.

uberpixie

Millionaire wrote:

I am starting to think, and agree with what Dave Joyce says, I think some of the MMA lands on here are insecure...

why...

cause they consistently (some of them) want to put down say for the street situation , what SD guys want to practice.

Because like anything where you devote and sacrifice a lot of time to train in: some people want to believe what they are doing is better than everything else.

MMA is meant to be the dog's wibbly wobblies.

Extreme MMA view:
"If it works in the ring and I am fit and I am used to fighting a resisting oponent in a full contact envrionment: it will therefore work on the street.

SD people are a bunch of paronoid, knife loving, steve segull/spec ops wannabes that see death ninjas/scumbags hiding at every turn ready to jump out and stab them.

They need to get laid and drink less coffee those crazy nuts."


On the other hand you have the extreme SD perspective:

"I am used to fighting a resisting oponent in a full contact "realistic" envrionment: it will therefore work on the street.

MMA is a sport:Because it works in the ring doesn't mean it will work on the dreaded street.

If you are going to train to fight: why train to fight in a ring?

"REAL" fights don't happen in a ring:you have to fight on the dreaded street it will be against multiple scum bags, who have weapons.

There is no Ref to save your ass when mount the mofo and his mates kick you in the face/ bottle you.

MMA guys don't train in avoidance/awarness skills/dirty tactics that REAL fighters need on the street.

Always be at code alpha omega yellow when you step out of your home/fortress, be ready to deploy code fuchia red coz the streets are mean and there are lots of scum out to get ya."

As with all things: insecure people don't want to see the merits of the other side: they just want to believe what they do is the best and covers all situtations.

TMA/MMA/SD/what ever.

judomick

uberpixie wrote:

On the other hand you have the extreme SD perspective:

"I am used to fighting a resisting oponent in a full contact "realistic" envrionment: it will therefore work on the street.

MMA is a sport:Because it works in the ring doesn't mean it will work on the dreaded street.

.

great post uberpixie, my argument is that in most sd systems they dont train against resisting opponents,or full contact its just too deadly! and mma has been proven to work in the "street" tons of videos out there

MaxBax

careful he doesn't wing lock you.

dlofnep

max, you are very odd.

MaxBax

uberpixie wrote:

SD people are a bunch of paronoid, knife loving, steve segull/spec ops wannabes that see death ninjas/scumbags hiding at every turn ready to jump out and stab them.

steven seagull.

MaxBax

uberpixie wrote:

Because like anything where you devote and sacrifice a lot of time to train in: some people want to believe what they are doing is better than everything else.

MMA is meant to be the dog's wibbly wobblies.

Extreme MMA view:
"If it works in the ring and I am fit and I am used to fighting a resisting oponent in a full contact envrionment: it will therefore work on the street.

SD people are a bunch of paronoid, knife loving, steve segull/spec ops wannabes that see death ninjas/scumbags hiding at every turn ready to jump out and stab them.

They need to get laid and drink less coffee those crazy nuts."


On the other hand you have the extreme SD perspective:

"I am used to fighting a resisting oponent in a full contact "realistic" envrionment: it will therefore work on the street.

MMA is a sport:Because it works in the ring doesn't mean it will work on the dreaded street.

If you are going to train to fight: why train to fight in a ring?

"REAL" fights don't happen in a ring:you have to fight on the dreaded street it will be against multiple scum bags, who have weapons.

There is no Ref to save your ass when mount the mofo and his mates kick you in the face/ bottle you.

MMA guys don't train in avoidance/awarness skills/dirty tactics that REAL fighters need on the street.

Always be at code alpha omega yellow when you step out of your home/fortress, be ready to deploy code fuchia red coz the streets are mean and there are lots of scum out to get ya."

As with all things: insecure people don't want to see the merits of the other side: they just want to believe what they do is the best and covers all situtations.

TMA/MMA/SD/what ever.

sorry i need to quote this again. it's great. LESS COFFEE for dave joyce.

uberpixie

judomick wrote:

great post uberpixie, my argument is that in most sd systems they dont train against resisting opponents,or full contact its just too deadly! and mma has been proven to work in the "street" tons of videos out there

I have no doubt that MMA works.

What I don't like is some MMA people throwing a spaz when someone from a SD back ground makes a valid point that goes against a MMA technique/thinking!

Everyone has something to bring to the table, no matter what their back ground is.

Some people just seem to forget this.

kenpo_dave

MMA for self defense. Look at the 'Tough Guy' clip.

http://www.psfp.com/videos.htm

Real Player needed.

MaxBax

Full Circle, wasn't that the JK moniker for a while

Hmm, his ideas seem sound, being a Judo/KKS Karate guy i'm sure he spars a lot.
Is this the philosophy of your gym Kenpo Dave?

kenpo_dave

MaxBax wrote:

Full Circle, wasn't that the JK moniker for a while

Hmm, his ideas seem sound, being a Judo/KKS Karate guy i'm sure he spars a lot.
Is this the philosophy of your gym Kenpo Dave?

Lol no. This is the philosophy of MMA IRELAND. Apparently Jon Bluming was mixing his Judo and KKS back in the '60s.

Bit of history of Jon Bluming. Did 2 tours with Royal Dutch marines in Korea. Former body guard of the King and Queen of Holland. 10th Dan Karate (awarded from Japan), 9th Dan Kodokan Judo, 4th Dan Bo Jitsu, 4th Dan Iai Jitsu, 2nd Dan Kendo

Hmm. Funny but i read that "Is this the philosophy of your Kenpo gym Dave".
Maybe its bcause Im a bit drunk.

MaxBax

he sounds like he could do with some non-martialarts hobbies.

what's the current craic with mma ireland i hear tj davitt is training with them. where are they at the moment?

kenpo_dave

Ye TJ is training with us. Tough guy. Kokoro is still down in East Wall...unfortunately. Having trouble finding a real dojo...teething problems etc.