Opinion Poll........The best all round Martial Art

Freedomfighter

Ok people here it is.... I want everyones opinion on which is the best ALL ROUND martial art.
Now i need people to be objective here not just " i do Aikido so thats the best".

dlofnep

There is no best all round martial art. That is why mixed martial arts is there. Nothing comes close to results than MMA. If I had to pick one single martial art, it would br BJJ for sure.

pma-ire

Freedomfighter wrote:

Ok people here it is.... I want everyones opinion on which is the best ALL ROUND martial art.
Now i need people to be objective here not just " i do Aikido so thats the best".

Have you read this Board or not??

MaxBax

Hapkido.

MaxBax

No San shou.

judomick

watch ufc 1

MaxBax

tank abbott continiously proves what bruce lee says - no form, no style.

dlofnep

judomick wrote:

watch ufc 1

stop telling him secrets! :mad:

MaxBax

a combination of rex-kwon-do and bjj.

t_rom/reaper

i do jiu-jitsu and it works for me so i think dat but for others it could be muay thai or shinto ryu karate!!!!????????
then again i think in mma tournys bjj is all round top notch but its got know standing game unlike kick boxing etc.......

MaxBax

paukour for the win.

Freedomfighter

is there a mix out there of Aikido Kenpo karate and Kickboxing/thai boxing

MaxBax

yep krav maga.

and maxbaxaga.

Baggio...

For me its.....(guess what!?)

"it's Combatives", as if you guys did not know.

One thing, are we talking best sport or street? Personally I 'aint really into the sport side, so I guess it does not really matter. That's the thing about BJJ it's really great - but it's still a sport.

Just my opinion,

Bagg.

MaxBax

yes. sports and streets arts.

"It's still a sport" i remember someone said this to me about judo. i laughed. i still laugh.

bagg. you're a ninja, and always will be a ninja.

Baggio...

Hah! yer right...

I've been corrupted by the dark side of M.A.

hurrrr... puuurrrr... that's my Darth Vader impression, and not just some wirdo:D

Bagg.

PS - I'd be a very very clumsy Ninja with bad spelling.

padraigcarroll

Freedomfighter wrote:

Ok people here it is.... I want everyones opinion on which is the best ALL ROUND martial art.
Now i need people to be objective here not just " i do Aikido so thats the best".

Best at what? or best for ...... what?!!
all round?... as in, encompasses the most effective skills throughtout the most ranges???

Naos

MaxBax wrote:

yes. sports and streets arts.

"It's still a sport" i remember someone said this to me about judo. i laughed. i still laugh.

I agree. I remember when I was younger a good bit before I had joined MA or had any idea about it, my dad was speaking about someone he knew who was a BB in Judo.

Me: Yeah but its just judo, all they can do is throw.
Dad: Okay. But what if they throw you onto the corner of that table there.
Me: Eh, good point.

Suffice to say, I shut up.

MaeveD

What a question, there isn't one but if pressed for an answer, I'd say whatever it is Gene LeBell does or Systema maybe

MaxBax

my pal has trained with lebell and gokor and has done a lot of systema. i'm not a fan tbh. it's too rbsdcy for me.

Clive

Scaldy-jitsu - for the street, for the ring, for the club, for the bedroom, for life.

MaxBax

Choose Scaldy-jitsu. Choose Late nights. Choose Lager. Choose sunday morning rolls. Choose hangovers. Choose bad-cardio. Choose curries before fights.....

kenpo_dave

Firstly I love BJJ. I see it as an essential part of all round fighting. However, with the exception of the original gracie BJJ, how many times has bjj proved itself outside of a sparring match?
Secondly, I dont know what Tank Abbotts ground game is like but if this guy was still alive I would bet my money that he would cream Abbott

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6537200073830375552&q=andy+hug

MaxBax

kenpo dave i never know when you're taking the piss or being serious but that andy hug guy was a class figher.

how many times has bjj proved itself outside of a sparring match?

what do you mean? how many times has bjj climbed everest? how many times it's won mastermind? how many times its licked it's own elbow?

kenpo_dave

Sorry Max, I was responding to dlofnep's post about his choice being BJJ. I probably sould have pointed that out. In my opinion MMA BJJ is nothing more than a sport, about as much to do with combat as rugby, and that it cant "stand" by itself outside of the ring. All the clips of BJJ vs 'whatever style' that Ive seen have been in a sparring environment, where BJJ thrives, but never in a clip of a CCTV recording or the likes. I would like to remind people that I do recognise the importance of grappling in all-round fighting and that I see my error in not pointing out what I meant.

Regards,

Dave.

Also, I try to see the humour in everything and will always try to take the piss if I can, if appropriate of course

Millionaire

Probaby the best all round people I have seen, was a few instructors in
Israeli Krav Maga Assoc, in Netanya in Israel.
Basically they traing KM like MMA, strikes with judo, wrestling, BJJ. plus they can do knife, stick, gun defence. military stuff like assault rifle disarms. hostage defences. etc etc.
these guys trained 6days a week, from 7 to 11 or even 1am in the morning.
they were good, real good! the only think I did not like was that the training was run Dojo style , as in line up, bow, bow if you had to go out for a piss, which is all BS. but the skills were excellent/

However KM is not trained like that in ireland.

My idea would be street orientated MMA. as i train Combatives with the best elements of KM. and back all this up with heavy Muay Thai training, and also learn to fight on the ground just in case!

Training alot of conditioning, pad work, heavy bag, sparring, ground work. and then RBSD drills, and of course weapon disarms.

Now if you can do all of that , you will be good!

dlofnep

Dave - There are hundreds of videos online of BJJ guys in street fights dismantling people. It works just fine in outside the ring/sparring/whatever. Works fine even on stage against a crazed fan..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjjHvVa8pLw&search=jiu-jitsu%20%20fight

Quillo

Kaze Arashi Ryu Aiki Jujutsu......
http://www.aikijujutsu.org.uk/history.html

No longer available in Ireland though, as far as I know.

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

Kaze Arashi Ryu Aiki Jujutsu......
http://www.aikijujutsu.org.uk/history.html

No longer available in Ireland though, as far as I know.

Any personal reasons why you consider this the best?

Roper

I am crying laughing at Maxbax here, and it's only 9am!!

And Tank Abbot isn't a real fighter, he's a dinosaur. Andy Hug was a master but he still got beat plenty of times. KO'ed a couple of times too. So I wouldn't go betting too much on him. Ernesto Hoost had his number. Still one of the greats though.

Like Max, i really find it hard to figure out when you're taking the mick. Like when you told John Kavanagh you didn't think he was a real MMA coach.... gas!:)

For my two cents, I think in terms of one all-round martial art, I don't think it exists. Your best bet is to get really sh1t hot at a good stand up art, a clinch one, then a ground on and combine them all together to make a sort of mix. Though I have no idea what you'd call that....

dlofnep

Roper wrote:

For my two cents, I think in terms of one all-round martial art, I don't think it exists. Your best bet is to get really sh1t hot at a good stand up art, a clinch one, then a ground on and combine them all together to make a sort of mix. Though I have no idea what you'd call that....

MMA - Or Street Fighter 2. Whichever..

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Any personal reasons why you consider this the best?

If you have the patience to stick with its complex structure and the conservative leadership it covers pretty much all forms of unarmed combat, as well as the use of edged weapons and sticks against single and multiple attackers.

It is a true "system" in that respect.

It was taught in Waterford for a number of years but never drew much in the way of regular attendance. People found it very difficult to learn its subtleties and were unhappy about the very infrequent and very strick gradings. It was also taught in quite a robust fashion and, while no one was ever injured, you frequently went home bruised and sore !

At the end, there were only 3 regular students and the instructor packed it in due to economics and disillusionment. Two of us went on to study Sin Moo Hapkido (which shares its origins in Daito Ryu with Kaze Arashi Ryu). The third student tried to remain involved in KAR by travelling over to the UK for seminars but that proved impractical long term and he is no longer involved in the art as far as I know.

dlofnep

You train hapkido with Alan out in Tramore. Why don't you come along to a brazilian jiu-jitsu class?

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

You train hapkido with Alan out in Tramore. Why don't you come along to a brazilian jiu-jitsu class?

Yes, I train with Alan.

I occasionally spar with the BJJ guys on Tuesday nights but I don't train with them as, it appears to me, that BJJ it heaviliy predicated on taking the fight to the ground. While I accept that some situations might end up on the ground and that it is important to be able to deal with that, I do not think actively looking to take it to the ground is a good strategy. I'm very much a hit and run kinda guy....at 43 I can't afford to hang around toughing it out with fitter younger types on the ground while their mates play football with my head.

Matter of personal prefererence is all.

dlofnep

I'm rarely ever out on tuesday nights there, drop over and say hello next time I am. I'll be the shortest guy there

Roper

Quillo wrote:

I do not think actively looking to take it to the ground is a good strategy. I'm very much a hit and run kinda guy....at 43 I can't afford to hang around toughing it out with fitter younger types on the ground while their mates play football with my head.

Matter of personal prefererence is all.

In my experience of self defence situations, personal preference never comes into it. I think most BJJ guys would agree with you, taking it to the ground is a bad strategy in self defence situations involving more than one attacker. That's why anyone who cares about self defence and trains BJJ also advocates a good stand-up and clinch system.

Cheers

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

I'm rarely ever out on tuesday nights there, drop over and say hello next time I am. I'll be the shortest guy there

I'm the baldy guy with the beard.

Cabelo

scaldy-jitsu


I believe that makes me MaxBax's first convert. w00p!

FiannaGym.com

eh... MMA do you really need to ask?

BJJ has proven itself over and over, at this stage more than any other martial art. You should try get your hands on the original Gracie Challenge videos, it is comical to see what TMA / Kenpo / Kung Fu / TKD guys tried to do to win the $50,000 on offer. THats all way in the past and the Gracies are no longer seen as the best BJJ fighters, except by children and impressionalbe people. BJJ has gotten better, not worse and proves itself more convincingly in street fights.

Andy Hug (much respect RIP) was great and is something of a folk hero for Karate guys because of his size and his ability to hang with bigger k-1 fighters. For younger and more impressionable people his use of the axe kick often results in wet pants. But he really was great. Could he beat a fat idiot from Huntington beach? We'll I'm sure virtually any K-1 level fighter could. But of course k-1 is a sport definately not a martial art so, so what? Could Andy Hug beat Arlovski or Fedor? Obvioulsy not.

To get back on point the best "all round" martial art would be a mixture of all martial arts. If you are interested in stand-up fighitng then the "mixture" of the most effective techniques would be Muay Thai. If you are interested in throws and take downs then the best "mixture" of these would be FS wrestling. If you are interested in the best "mixture" of ground fighting techniques would be BJJ. THe best mixture of all ranges would be MMA.

OF course, you might, like me, want to do acrobatic stuff so Wu-shu would be good. Or like me you might think "Drunken Boxing" is great, so you might want to do that. If you were intersted in "internal" training, you could do Silat (why?) or Chi Kung etc.

So the best all round martial art is an well rounded martial artist. OR a drunken internal acrobatic mixed martial artist.

Peace

dlofnep

FiannaGym.com wrote:

all way in the past and the Gracies are no longer seen as the best BJJ fighters, except by children and impressionalbe people. BJJ has gotten better, not worse and proves itself more convincingly in street fights.

If you are referring to the Gracie's performance in MMA, you'd be correct.. But in BJJ, they are still the creme of the crop.. Renzo, Royler & Roger are among the elite in sport BJJ and submission grappling.

MaeveD

dlofnep wrote:

Dave - There are hundreds of videos online of BJJ guys in street fights dismantling people. It works just fine in outside the ring/sparring/whatever. Works fine even on stage against a crazed fan..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjjHvVa8pLw&search=jiu-jitsu%20%20fight

Hey dlofnep,
I'd forgotten all about that clip, a tool fan sent it to me a few months ago. A perfect example of how an aikido/judo throw and bjj can work in a real situation... granted they guy seems more than happy to be on the ground with his hero

Quillo

Perhaps there is no "best all around martial Art" ?
(Though I stand by my vote for KAR above as being a very complete system)

However, this shouldn't stand in the way of poeple seeking to become the best all around martial artist.

If what you are studying lacks take-downs or throws or weapons or ground work then surely it is wise to supliment your art with visits to systems that have these techniques.....if only to see them and evaluate them for youself ?

Often, the traditional view is:
If you change paths, how can you expect to reach your destination ?

I tend to take the view that there is no destination, there are only paths.....

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

Perhaps there is no "best all around martial Art" ?
(Though I stand by my vote for KAR above as being a very complete system)

However, this shouldn't stand in the way of poeple seeking to become the best all around martial artist.

If what you are studying lacks take-downs or throws or weapons or ground work then surely it is wise to supliment your art with visits to systems that have these techniques.....if only to see them and evaluate them for youself ?

Instead of visits to other gyms, you could just train MMA which covers everything under the one roof

MMA is surely the best all around martial art. I don't think it can be logically disputed.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

you could just train MMA which covers everything under the one roof

In defining an art called "MMA" you almost immediately limit it, and then, can it still trully be called MMA....

Do you include the stick work of Escrima, the edged weapons of Silat or Kali, the ki/chi manipulation of the internal arts...? The pressure points of Dim Mak ? The gun disarms of Krav Maga ? The situational awareness of the reality-based systems ?

Is it trully everything under one roof ?

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

In defining an art called "MMA" you almost immediately limit it, and then, can it still trully be called MMA....

Wording doesn't limit an art.

Quillo wrote:

Do you include the stick work of Escrima, the edged weapons of Silat or Kali, the ki/chi manipulation of the internal arts...? The pressure points of Dim Mak ? The gun disarms of Krav Maga ? The situational awareness of the reality-based systems ?

Is it trully everything under one roof ?

No, we don't include weapons training as they are not relative to MMA nor are they important. When it's legal and common for people to walk around streets with guns and swords - I'll consider it. Also, do you really think you would have time to disarm a gun? If someone wants to shoot you, trust me - It will be done before you can blink.

As far as "situational awareness of the reality-based systems". MMA is as close to reality as it gets. We are aware of all ranges of combat. Ki or Chi seriously, not at all practicle to application of combat. Pressure points are also not practical in combat against a resisting and unwilling partner.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Wording doesn't limit an art.
No, we don't include weapons training as they are not relative to MMA nor are they important. When it's legal and common for people to walk around streets with guns and swords - I'll consider it. Also, do you really think you would have time to disarm a gun? If someone wants to shoot you, trust me - It will be done before you can blink.

As far as "situational awareness of the reality-based systems". MMA is as close to reality as it gets. We are aware of all ranges of combat. Ki or Chi seriously, not at all practicle to application of combat. Pressure points are also not practical in combat against a resisting and unwilling partner.

A dismissive and insular stance worthy of the most conservative traditional MA

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

A dismissive and insular stance worthy of the most conservative traditional MA

Elaborate.

Millionaire

dlofnep wrote:

No, we don't include weapons training as they are not relative to MMA nor are they important. When it's legal and common for people to walk around streets with guns and swords - I'll consider it. Also, do you really think you would have time to disarm a gun? If someone wants to shoot you, trust me - It will be done before you can blink.

QUOTE]

weapons training or the lack of it would be very important, if someone pulled a knife, used a bottle to hit you, or decided to whack you with a stick.
then you would be sorry you did not know a little.

did you not learn very recently, that it is possible to get attacked
in a pub or on the street, while minding your own business???

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Elaborate.

"Dismissive" - in that you dismiss the teaching of many other arts as being of no value.

"Insular" in believing what you do is all that there is that is worth doing.

Views commonly held in traditional arts.
Views typically criticised by those advocating a MMA approach.
The word irony comes to mind

dlofnep

Millionaire wrote:

dlofnep wrote:

weapons training or the lack of it would be very important, if someone pulled a knife, used a bottle to hit you, or decided to whack you with a stick.
then you would be sorry you did not know a little.

I've never been stabbed, bottled or hit with a weapon in my life. Anyone I know hasn't either. I think staying away from those sort of situations are the best prevention.

dlofnep

Quillo wrote:

"Dismissive" - in that you dismiss the teaching of many other arts as being of no value.

"Insular" in believing what you do is all that there is that is worth doing.

Views commonly held in traditional arts.
Views typically criticised by those advocating a MMA approach.
The word irony comes to mind

I dimiss them because they don't work in a resisting enviroment and chi is really non-relative to combat.