Is Michael Mc Dowell a gaelgoir? ...

SeanW

... Or does he just have something to hide?

According to the Sunday Tribune, Michael McDowell, Justice Minister, has chosen to use the Irish Language to introduce controversial legislation on phone-tapping and communications monitoring. Article here.

And some people say the Irish language is useless.

But I disagree, it's really useful when someone in power has something to hide, because of course, everyone knows what "text message monitoring" and "electronic telephone recording" is as Gaeilge.

I'd be looking at this legislation very carefully, that is, if I could speak a word of Gaelic.

Diorraing

Not sure if he is gaeilgoir, pretty sure he is a gaeilgeoir tho.

Freelancer

Yup, he's made huge speechs usually over controversial legislation entirely as gaegile......

Its not like he's deviously sneaking things into the statute books by putting little clauses in in irish but more that he's ensuring the debate about such laws are quickly and painlessly over and done with.

flogen

Are they complaining because they can't understand what is in front of them or because they can't engage in debate?
I would say it's a horrible abuse to use this tactic, but who is more at fault here, McDowell for speaking Gaeilge in the Dail or those TD's opposed to the bill being unable to engage in the same tongue?

I'm generally opposed to McDowell's tactics, and I am extremely weary of this bill (can't say I totally oppose it because I haven't read it), I am also far from a fluent Irish speaker but if people in the Dail aren't able to debate or read bills in Irish as well as they do in English they have no one to blame but themselves.

They can now do one of the following; demand the Irish government speaks in English and English only or get off their arses and learn their first language.

SeanW

I'm guessing that many of our TDs, like a lot of Irish people, can't speak Irish, either very well or at all. For all the linguistic facists ramming this gibberish down our throats, we largely can't even speak the language.

First Language or not, that's the reality.

And here was me thinking the Irish language was useless, but if you want to sneak in some dodgy legislation without debate, Gaeilge seems to be the answer.

Diorraing

SeanW wrote:

And here was me thinking the Irish language was useless, but if you want to sneak in some dodgy legislation without debate, Gaeilge seems to be the answer.

Complete rubbish. All leaders of the opposition can speak Irish fluently: Enda Kenny, Pat Rabbitte, Trevor Sergent, Caoimhín Ó Caoileáin, Joe Higgins - even Tony Gergory. If McDowell thinks this is a good method of 'sneaking' legislation in he has got another thing coming.

SeanW

It was introduced in the Senate.

The Tribune wrote:

"I know he has the cupla focal, but it is highly unusual for this minister to deliver a speech in Irish. It would immediately raise questions in my mind to look carefully at the detail in this piece of legislation, " Labour's Joe Costello said.

From RTE today:

Labour TD Michael D Higgins criticised the Minister for using Irish in what he said was an abusive way.

He said the translation was poor and he could not understand some of the words used.

Oh dear oh dear.

simu

That Tribune link doesn't work but I'd like to see the article - Micheal D. Higgins was on the RTÉ 9 o'clock news today talking about it and he claimed it was a bad translation from English. A failed attempt to sneak legislation through? - I'm surprised McD. thought it would go un-noticed tbh. Odd.

arbeitsscheuer

Well, Michael D. Higgins is 100% fluent in his mother tongue, so if he was on the 9 O'Clock news criticising McDowell's translation, then there's something bloomin' shifty bout the whole thing.

gilroyb

He seems to like speaking in the Seanad 'as gaeilge' , this was a continuation of that policy. He did not speak in the Dail in Irish. I presume the Minister only speaks in the Seanad on matters of great importance and that is why it looks like his policy is an attempt to hide legislation. I'm not a big fan of his, but I don't think an Irish politician speaking Irish should be a source of disgust.

simu

gilroyb wrote:

I'm not a big fan of his, but I don't think an Irish politician speaking Irish should be a source of disgust.

I think it's good to use Irish there but he should be sure it's accurate!

Maskhadov

i heard Mc Dowell made heavy work of going through the entire bill as Gaegile. Personally I belive that 50% of items in the Dail and Seanad should be in Irish.

SeanW

SeanW wrote:

And some people say the Irish language is useless.

Substitute 'you' for 'some people'...

SeanW wrote:

this gibberish

I don't understand Greek yet those Greeks are always speaking it in their Parliament. I'm going to get paranoid...

SeanW

Oh dear, looks like I just fired up the Irish language enthusiast brigade.

I don't understand Greek yet those Greeks are always speaking it in their Parliament. I'm going to get paranoid...

It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Greek people SPEAK THE GREEK LANGUAGE? Err ... no ... of course not.

So the translation for the speech was so bad that Michael D Higgins couldn't understand it. It seems clear that McDowell exploited what is basically a loophole to make the speech in a language many don't understand in an attempt to fudge some legislation through.

Electroic surveillance is a dodgy, fundamental issue pitting the need for civil liberties against the need for safety, and any legislation on the matter should be dealt with openly and honestly. But, apparently, McDowell picked this time to show his cultural side?

flogen

SeanW wrote:

Oh dear, looks like I just fired up the Irish language enthusiast brigade.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Greek people SPEAK THE GREEK LANGUAGE? Err ... no ... of course not.

So the translation for the speech was so bad that Michael D Higgins couldn't understand it. It seems clear that McDowell exploited what is basically a loophole to make the speech in a language many don't understand in an attempt to fudge some legislation through.

Electroic surveillance is a dodgy, fundamental issue pitting the need for civil liberties against the need for safety, and any legislation on the matter should be dealt with openly and honestly. But, apparently, McDowell picked this time to show his cultural side?

If McDowell spoke in Irish and people couldn't understand him that's their problem.
However, if McDowell spoke in Irish but did so so poorly that other Irish speakers had difficulty understanding him then he should be questioned as Gaeilge about the bad translations. If he can't really speak Irish that well someone should have the brains to put him on the spot.

SeanW

SeanW wrote:

Oh dear, looks like I just fired up the Irish language enthusiast brigade.

On the contrary, I don't speak it at all myself. Hence I don't go around knocking people who do, or getting all paranoid about someone who choses to speak in our native tongue. Fair play to them. I wish I had the time to study it.

ballooba

As I said in the Digital Rights forum. This has secured a vote against McDowell from me. I probably would have voted against him anyway, but now I'm putting him in the same category as Sinn Fein as in they won't even appear on my ballot paper.

This inspired me to join Fine Gael yesterday. I intend doing everything I can to try and stop this scumbag (in my opinion) getting back into the Dail.

[edit]P.s. Did this bill get through? also just to point out that I have never been political before to any great extent. On the face of this it looks like cosying up to the US again and their Patriot Act. [/edit]

The_Minister

I have heard of TDs doing this before. I was watching Dail Beo once and some Green made a speech in Irish and nearly the whole house left.

Bogger77

ballooba wrote:

As I said in the Digital Rights forum. This has secured a vote against McDowell from me. I probably would have voted against him anyway, but now I'm putting him in the same category as Sinn Fein as in they won't even appear on my ballot paper.

This inspired me to join Fine Gael yesterday. I intend doing everything I can to try and stop this scumbag (in my opinion) getting back into the Dail.

[edit]P.s. Did this bill get through? also just to point out that I have never been political before to any great extent. On the face of this it looks like cosying up to the US again and their Patriot Act. [/edit]

McDowell may have issues speaking in Irish, but at least he can use English fluently. Try using spaces and spell checker.

Michael D. is complaining about the translations, but in a language such as Irish, with 3 very different dialects, with each having differing spellings/words/grammar, it will be hard to get a translation that satisfies all readers.
I deal with translators for many languages, and we will often have complaints from other native language speakers about words and phrases used.

SeanW

ballooba wrote:

As I said in the Digital Rights forum. This has secured a vote against McDowell from me. I probably would have voted against him anyway, but now I'm putting him in the same category as Sinn Fein as in they won't even appear on my ballot paper.

This inspired me to join Fine Gael yesterday. I intend doing everything I can to try and stop this scumbag (in my opinion) getting back into the Dail.

[edit]P.s. Did this bill get through? also just to point out that I have never been political before to any great extent. On the face of this it looks like cosying up to the US again and their Patriot Act. [/edit]

Forget it Ballooba, FG supports this legislation.

The article wrote:

JUSTICE minister Michael McDowell took the unusual step of speaking in Irish in the Seanad to introduce controversial measures which will allow EU states to tap phones and monitor text and email messages in Ireland, without first seeking permission from the Irish authorities.

The phone tapping proposals are part of new measures to allow EU countries fight international criminal gangs and will make it easier for national governments to monitor bank accounts and confiscate the assets of criminals living outside their jurisdictions.

McDowell signalled that the legislation would be important in fighting the situation where "an Irish person is entitled to go to the 'costa del crime' and buy a villa there."

Fine Gael supports McDowell, but the Labour Party has said there are not enough safeguards about personal privacy and individual rights in the legislation. The party will table amendments, when the bill is debated in detail next week, seeking a monitoring mechanism to ensure any information gathered is not misused.

The fact that the minister delivered his entire secondstage speech in Irish was commented upon by several of his political opponents, as McDowell has only spoken in Irish a handful of times in his Oireachtas career.

"I know he has the cupla focal, but it is highly unusual for this minister to deliver a speech in Irish. It would immediately raise questions in my mind to look carefully at the detail in this piece of legislation, " Labour's Joe Costello said.

However, a spokesperson for McDowell said the minister "liked to make speeches in the Seanad in Irish" and had done so previously.

The proposals to facilitate the interception of telecommunication messages between EU member states for criminal investigation purposes are contained in Part 3 of the Criminal Justice (Mutual Assistance) Bill.

The legislation would make it possible for police forces in other EU states to monitor telecom messages of a person in Ireland while "retrospective permission" was being sought. The legislation says that any information gathered could only be used if permission was ultimately granted. It is not clear how this situation would operate.

Independent Senator Joe O'Toole, who spoke in the Seanad last week, said that the monitoring proposals "should not lead to a deterioration in the rights of citizens". He warned that "there has to be a full debate to ensure that people's rights are safeguarded. Otherwise, this proposal will become a pension fund for lawyers who challenge every line in the legislation."

McDowell's legislation would also make it a legal obligation on all telecommunication companies to facilitate phone tapping and email monitoring of people, regardless of where they are located in the EU.

Irish authorities could refuse requests for assistance where it was believed that state security interests would be threatened, or where it was thought assistance might result in a person being subjected to torture.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

This has secured a vote against McDowell from me. I probably would have voted against him anyway

No, you don't say...I'd never have guessed from the rest of your post

ballooba wrote:

This inspired me to join Fine Gael yesterday.

So you joined a party that supports McDowell's position? How bizarre...

ballooba wrote:

I intend doing everything I can to try and stop this scumbag (in my opinion) getting back into the Dail.

Please let us know how your campaign goes. I would suggest chaining yourself to the door of his constituency office. Others may have other ideas to contribute, but keep us posted. Just assure us that 'everything' stops short of hanging around book depositaries with a high powered rifle bought through a catalogue...

ballooba

Bogger77 wrote:

McDowell may have issues speaking in Irish, but at least he can use English fluently. Try using spaces and spell checker.

I did. Care to clarify?

[edit] Also with regard to the above, I'm disappointed to hear that Fine Gael are supporting this legislation.

They'll still get my preference in the hope that McDowell won't get back in. I have a problem with a lot of the things McDowell does and feel that he abuses his power.

With regard to what I can do to try stop him getting back into the Dail. I can first of all exercise my vote in favour of every other candidate than FF & PD (& SF). Encourage members of my family to vote likewise. Also I can help by helping out with FG campaigns.

One of my friends is a legal eagle with FG. I must ask him what the thinking behind this decision was.

I disagree with other elements of FG policy including those with regard to Credit Card surcharges but you can't have everything.[/edit]

shuushh

On the contrary, I don't speak it at all myself. Hence I don't go around knocking people who do, or getting all paranoid about someone who choses to speak in our native tongue. Fair play to them. I wish I had the time to study it.

yet you manage to both knock someone and get paranoid about people who oppose Mc Dowell. Good work.

biko

I don't mind whether he uses Irish or English, it's the fact hat he is trying to allow foreign/EU police to tap/monitor our telephones and mail that gets to me.
Is he to trying to turn Ireland into a "security state", following the British and american examples?

shuushh

shuushh wrote:

yet you manage to both knock someone and get paranoid about people who oppose Mc Dowell.

Yeah, I got all paranoid alright. I suspect the original poster is trying to foist legislation on this country on the sly just like McDowell, so your analogy/comparison is perfect.

The reference to the rifles and book depositaries, as many will notice, was Lee Harvey Oswald - the assasination of John F Kennedy? Ex President of the US? Hate to burst the bubble but it wasn't paranoia, it was tongue in cheek, I wasn't really suggesting the poster would kill the Minister...although he did say he would do everything he could...

SeanW

Deleted User wrote:

Yeah, I got all paranoid alright. I suspect the original poster is trying to foist legislation on this country on the sly just like McDowell, so your analogy/comparison is perfect.

What exactly are you referring to?

And as for the poster who said he would do "everything he could" to stop McDowell, it should be assumed (though not necessarily) that he meant any legal, democratic measure, like campaigning for Fine Gael which I think was mentioned. No clue what you were getting at with the JFK reference.

ballooba

What I got from Conor74's post was that he was making a joke.

Some might say in bad taste, but a joke all the same. Take offence if you must but I didn't.

SeanW I would hope that most people would assume what you derived from my post i.e. legal, democratic means.

Zebra3

Interesting to see McDowell on the news today. Seems like he's 'suddenly' realised there's a gun problem in Ireland. :rolleyes:

SeanW

SeanW wrote:

What exactly are you referring to?

Sigh

The initial poster suggested that MacDowell was trying to foist something on us on the sly, using the Irish language as a cloak.

I said that that was paranoid.

Someone else suggested that I was paranoid for suggesting that the initial poster was...paranoid.

I merely pointed out that I wasn't suggesting the initial poster was passing off legislation that would bind everyone. I felt it wasn't a good comparison at all. Suggesting that someone is paranoid is not, in itself, paranoid.

SeanW wrote:

it should be assumed

Should it?

Good, I can go smoking on the grassy knoll again.

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

Should it?

Good, I can go smoking on the grassy knoll again.

Innocence (should be assumed) until proven guilty



Yes indeed it should.

Cork

Is Michael Mc Dowell a gaelgoir? ...

I don't know - but he is certainly one of the best TDs in the Dail.

Some don't like him for standing up to the Provos or their supporters. But why criticise him for using our natioal language or implementing legalisation already agreed at an EU level?

flogen

Cork wrote:

But why criticise him for using our natioal language or implementing legalisation already agreed at an EU level?

Criticism is deserved if he is using our national language without relevant skill, and criticism is deserved if he is trying to put a law through that will impact upon our civil liberties.

I like that he stands up to the provo's, I don't like that he names and shames people without evidence just because the DPP can't get a conviction on them in the proper avenues.

Judt

I think that as much as the Irish language is our national heritage, it has not been taught in a particularly good way. In the old system, which I would presume the majority of those posting here were taught under in primary school (where you essentially either get the language or get left behind into secondary and beyond), many teachers complained that it was an out of date and not particularly effective method of teaching. Hence the change in syllabus. Indeed, the old system was so outdated that I recall a chapter on begging travellers which would send the PC brigade into a tizzle if they saw it published today…

In primary school I never really picked up on the language, and can I or the legions of other Irish people who do not actually speak Irish be blamed? Quite aside from methods of teaching, when you have a language which is not the primary spoken language in day-to-day affairs in most areas then you are going to encounter problems. Indeed, I do believe that speaking English has helped us economically and in other ways in the past, when we've been quite happy to exploit what the British gave us linguistically after they took away our native language.

Now, to points on people in the Dáil and the general public being able to understand the speech or tough, or to the issue of perhaps mandating that so much Dáil work should be done through Irish, would be folly in my opinion. Whatever we say about Irish being our national language, one must face facts in that many people simply do not speak the language for various reasons – what about the legions of people who left school before or just after their inter cert, for example? Or those taught under the old regime in primary, and then left behind when they couldn't grasp the language? "Tough, you can just deal with it and no matter that we're leaving you out of the democratic process."? Frankly, I think that Irish freedom fighters in the past fought for freedom first and the Irish language second…

Irish shouldn't be such a disadvantaged language, but the fact of the matter is that it is. All we can do now is try and rectify this with new methods of educating young people in primary to speak and enjoy the language. In the meantime you cannot simply get on a high horse and tell those who cannot speak the language that that's their tough luck.

Diorraing

Judt wrote:

Irish shouldn't be such a disadvantaged language, but the fact of the matter is that it is. All we can do now is try and rectify this with new methods of educating young people in primary to speak and enjoy the language. In the meantime you cannot simply get on a high horse and tell those who cannot speak the language that that's their tough luck.

One of the best ways of rectifying the language is to show people that it is useful. If we conduct the running of our country with some Irish people will see that it has uses and then make more of an effort to learn it

SeanW

Conor74, I am the original poster, and much as my post may seem "paranoid" to you, I stand over what I said.

There is always going to be concern about the ability of the State to pry into peoples private business to prevent/punish crime and terrorism versus the rights of law-abiding citizens not to be secretley spied on and harassed.

So any attempt to deal with this balance, should in my view be as open and transparent as possible - unless the proposer has something to hide - and that this minister uses English primarly but chooses THIS TIME to get all cultural, and deliver a speech about it in a language many Irish people don't undersand, or in some cases care about, would make me want to look at this legislation very carefully.

Not only that but his speech was being criticised as being poorly worded and incomprehensible by the listening gaeilgeors such as Michael D.

This would indicate to me that McDowell didn't really know what he was saying, but rather utilised his right to make the speech as Gaeilge for some other reason.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this legislation or that there's anything bad about it per-se, indeed it many be perfectly fine and agreeable. But McDowells actions make this look very dodgy in my opinion, and I would be cautious about it. That's all.

constitutionus

its patently obvious that the reason macdowel did his speach in irish is the same one certain politicians use when forced to apologise to the dail I.E the vast majority of the population havent a clue what he's on about.
and comparing irish to greek is ridiculous, a better analogy would be to have a greek politician reading leglislation in macedonian:)

whats bothers me and what no ones actually mentioned yet is thats this is EU leglislation thats protected by previous treaties. in other words boys and girls its a fait acomplie.

this is going to be law and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

it was nice to have sovereignty once :rolleyes:

Judt

Diorraing wrote:

One of the best ways of rectifying the language is to show people that it is useful. If we conduct the running of our country with some Irish people will see that it has uses and then make more of an effort to learn it

Well in this particular case, I wouldn't want my reason for having to learn the language to be so that I can ensure that my government doesn't sneak one by me. And I think you can, on the whole, say that the adult population who do not speak Irish to any major degree do not have the time or inclination to pick up the language - our time in the education system has been done, time is limited and apart from said government one-liners, the reasons for learning the language beyond promoting cultural élan are few and far between. Teach the children to speak and love the language, but punishing adults for not speaking it - through no fault of their own, as neither I nor any of my peers set the curriculum by which we were taught as children - merely promotes an "anti-Irish" feeling towards the language.

If it is seen to be used, for example, as a tool to seemingly push past otherwise debate-sparking legislation, or if you have the pro-Irish lobby getting snobbish and saying "Tough" if you can't understand it, well this attitude will be passed onto children who, for the first time in a long time, are being given a real chance to become fluent Irish speakers in their formulate years.

constitutionus

constitutionus wrote:

whats bothers me and what no ones actually mentioned yet is thats this is EU leglislation thats protected by previous treaties. in other words boys and girls its a fait acomplie.

this is going to be law and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

it was nice to have sovereignty once :rolleyes:

Well said,further highlighting how undemocratic the EU actually is. Excerpts from a recent interview with a former Sovier dissident:

"The European Parliament is elected on the basis of proportional representation, which is not true representation. And what does it vote on? The percentage of fat in yoghurt, that kind of thing. It is ridiculous. It is given the task of the Supreme Soviet. The average MP can speak for six minutes per year in the Chamber. That is not a real parliament."

Calling it "blackmail," Bukovksy pointed out that citizens in countries like Ireland, Denmark and Switzerland were being forced to join the EU via means of endless referendums despite the fact that they consistently vote against it.

In other words they can do whatever they want and there's f all we can do about it. And all because of the Nice Treaty. Thanks Bertie

www.threatstodemocracy.com

ballooba

I think talking about the rights and wrongs of the Irish language and so on is merely fudging the issue. The issue at hand is why the language was used.

Someone mentioned above that this is a "loophole". Loophole's are mechanisms employed by wrongdoers to avoid the issue at hand i.e. the offending behaviour.

Is this something we should accept or come to accept from our expect of our representatives.

simu

Judt wrote:

if you have the pro-Irish lobby getting snobbish and saying "Tough" if you can't understand it, well this attitude will be passed onto children who, for the first time in a long time, are being given a real chance to become fluent Irish speakers in their formulate years.

Is there some pro-Irish lobby out there calling for the banning of speeches given in Irish from being translated into English? Coz I ain't heard of any...

Judt

simu wrote:

Is there some pro-Irish lobby out there calling for the banning of speeches given in Irish from being translated into English? Coz I ain't heard of any...

If an Irish speaking TD says that the translation is poor then you obviously have a problem. Either do it well or don't do it at all.

arbeitsscheuer

Judt wrote:

If an Irish speaking TD says that the translation is poor then you obviously have a problem. Either do it well or don't do it at all.

This would be my attitude also.

simu

Judt wrote:

If an Irish speaking TD says that the translation is poor then you obviously have a problem. Either do it well or don't do it at all.

No, he said the speech read out in Irish by McD. was poor. It was presumably first written in English and then translated into (poor) Irish by somebody for him before he read it out (or maybe he tried to do it himself?). My point was that English translations are provided for things read out in Irish afaik so it's not like people who read things out in Irish are saying "tough luck" to non-Irish speakers for not understanding.

constitutionus

simu wrote:

No, he said the speech read out in Irish by McD. was poor. It was presumably first written in English and then translated into (poor) Irish by somebody for him before he read it out (or maybe he tried to do it himself?). My point was that English translations are provided for things read out in Irish afaik so it's not like people who read things out in Irish are saying "tough luck" to non-Irish speakers for not understanding.

except for the public,you know , the people who vote? who unlike the opposition might actually vote for these guys and might think twice if they heard the speech in english. AFAIK the speech isnt even available in english on the web (but correct me if im wrong:D )

there's no way around the fact this stinks to high heaven and its a deliberate act to bypass public debate. i mean honestly, how many news reporters in the sennate actually knew what he was on about?

simu

constitutionus wrote:

except for the public,you know , the people who vote? who unlike the opposition might actually vote for these guys and might think twice if they heard the speech in english. AFAIK the speech isnt even available in english on the web (but correct me if im wrong:D )

there's no way around the fact this stinks to high heaven and its a deliberate act to bypass public debate. i mean honestly, how many news reporters in the sennate actually knew what he was on about?

Yeah, the same public that watches Oireachtas Report with zeal every time it's on air? There should have been translations to English available - of course, maybe our houses of parliament are so badly organised that this is not so but tbh the furore over the whole thing shows that all McD. did was draw attention to his speech and I think he could have prediceted this so I'm not convinced that it was some plot on his part to sneak legislation through.

Sand

Mick isnt an Irish speaker, hes just taking the piss out of the idea that its our first national language. As much as the Clare country council (afair) noting that they spent thousands on transalating their anuual reports to Irish as required by law, but no one actually asked for an Irish one.

But who cares about reality, when we know that theoretically everyone speaks Irish.

SeanW

Sand wrote:

Mick isnt an Irish speaker, hes just taking the piss out of the idea that its our first national language. As much as the Clare country council (afair) noting that they spent thousands on transalating their anuual reports to Irish as required by law, but no one actually asked for an Irish one.

But who cares about reality, when we know that theoretically everyone speaks Irish.

Finally: Someone with the nuts to tell it like it is! Best post in this thread.

GaryOR

A Dhia, I decide for the first time ever to go to the Politics fourm, and one of the first things I see is Sean (I hate Irish) W, baytin' (sic) out another anti-Irish post..

Maith Thú a Shéan, Maith thú..

ballooba

Sand wrote:

Mick isnt an Irish speaker, hes just taking the piss out of the idea that its our first national language. As much as the Clare country council (afair) noting that they spent thousands on transalating their anuual reports to Irish as required by law, but no one actually asked for an Irish one.

But who cares about reality, when we know that theoretically everyone speaks Irish.

That would be alright if he was talking about the price of tomatoes. But he's talking about an emotive issue such as people's right to privacy.

This comes down to people like those involved in the McBrearty scandal having access to your most intimate details without your knowledge or permission.

Elmo

"I circulated an exact translation of the speech in English to all of the members at the same time because I knew that, like myself, many of the members of the Seanad wouldn't be in a position to follow proceedings on a technical matter if they didn't have a translation available to them."

In his own words he isn't a gealigor but can Read As Gealige. Which is good. Always good not to really know what your saying but that you have a written translation to which you can refer back to.

Quote take from the Irish Times.

SeanW

GaryOR wrote:

I decide for the first time ever to go to the Politics fourm, and one of the first things I see is Sean (I hate Irish) W, baytin' (sic) out another anti-Irish post..

Not this again :mad: For the last time I don't hate the Irish language, any more than Russian or French, or indeed the languages more relevant in modern Ireland like Polish and Mandarin, I'm just sick of the nonsensical politicial and government (gaelgeoiri) stance on it and the constantly ramming it down our throats.

80 years of linguistic-fascism has achieved less than nothing.

Except its handy to have Irish as an "official" language when you want to try to pull a fast one.

A Dhia,
....
Maith Thú a Shéan, Maith thú..

No idea what you're on about mate.

BTW You don't seem to be the only gaeilgeoir who "just decided" to start posting in the politics just now, half the Gaeilge forum crew came out in force after I started this thread ...