lvl60 Rogues

Bartonprince

Are these the weakest lvl60's or what?

I was in Altarec Valley and as soon as i went near anyone, mt 3k health was gone and i was dead! Couldn't even put up a fight!.

I have the Krol Blade in mainhand and barman shanker in offhand.
I have 5/8 Shadowcraft gear and i only have about 3082 health.

I can't grind money in Tyrs Hand in EPL as i can't even take down 1 of the guards there even using all specials.

I can't get into a good guild to get epic armor as i don't already have epic armor... go figure...

Anyway, i just want to use this rogue to supposrt the lvling and monitary needs of my Warlock, but how do i get some decent gear to be able to solo stuff??

Mr. CooL ICE

Youre talking about the 60 rogue you got given? A friend of mine gave me his 60 rogue because he was sick of playing as one, for the simple reason that he died too easily. I saw him play Alterac Valley, and he would stealth, kill someone, and immediately be taken out by someone else. Usually 2 or 3 hits and he was a gonner.

He said that 60 rogues were okay at the start, but they have been continuously nerfed over the last year. They should be due a rogue revamp IMO.

Bartonprince

LordChessington wrote:

Youre talking about the 60 rogue you got given? A friend of mine gave me his 60 rogue because he was sick of playing as one, for the simple reason that he died too easily. I saw him play Alterac Valley, and he would stealth, kill someone, and immediately be taken out by someone else. Usually 2 or 3 hits and he was a gonner.

He said that 60 rogues were okay at the start, but they have been continuously nerfed over the last year. They should be due a rogue revamp IMO.

Yup, Like there was a group of 4 lvl60 horde attacking IF, i went down with a couple of paladins to help, i came out of stealth and Gouged 1 of them and started hitting another one. Because Rogues have so few hit points i was 3 shotted.

Not even enough time to get healed by the pala's.
Rogues do lots of damage. But against a Warrior with about 5-6k health and Heavy armor, it's impossible to last long enough to kill them.

Funky

Rogues are getting a review, don't expect too much though because they're not in bad shape at all. They're more gear dependant than alot of other classes so you don't get a good picture of how balanced the class is if you're decked out in blues.

edit: Warriors should always destroy rogues, PvP is loosely based on a rock/paper/scissors system. And having 3k health is your problem not the classes, I know rogues with over 4.5k unbuffed if not more.

Dr_MaSoN

i have a lvl 60 rogue on draenor using bout 7-8 epics:) ..tbh we arent week at all i can drop a hunter and cloth wearers pretty handy and can hold my own against warriors and pallys straight up using most of my cooldowns.AV isnt great as a rogue as its alot of range fighting,zerging and aoe.Try Ab or wsg and ur luck should improve,go with crippling on MH and Instant on off hand.Also swap ur weapons around so u can use back stab and ambush.Also wat spec are u using?

my hp unbuffed is 3700 odd and attk power is around 760
any q's just ask;)

Kiith

you really shouldnt be surprised if your not good with a lvl60 rogue...you didnt level him up yourself, so you dont know the class properly. as a cloth wearer, i can attest to how bloody useful rogues are (and i can bitch over and over again :mad: ), especially when played well.

try levelling one up yourself, and you'll probably find it more fun. never enjoyed the style of play needed for rogues myself.

Bartonprince

Kiith wrote:

you really shouldnt be surprised if your not good with a lvl60 rogue...you didnt level him up yourself, so you dont know the class properly. as a cloth wearer, i can attest to how bloody useful rogues are (and i can bitch over and over again :mad: ), especially when played well.

try levelling one up yourself, and you'll probably find it more fun. never enjoyed the style of play needed for rogues myself.

I've been duelling with this Rogue. He is Decked out in all blues bar his chest plate. I think the problem is that i have the Epic Krol Blade and a weak dagger compared to having 2 Epic daggers. I have some pretty good strategies, and if i had the gear to do the damage i'd be pretty good.

I can keep them stunned for a good while but i just can't get the damage on them.

Bartonprince

Bartonprince wrote:

I have the Krol Blade in mainhand and barman shanker in offhand.

Lies. They are both Main-hand weapons.

Dr_MaSoN

Bartonprince wrote:

I have some pretty good strategies, and if i had the gear to do the damage i'd be pretty good.

I can keep them stunned for a good while but i just can't get the damage on them.

tbh a bad workman blames his tools,imo u suck as a rogue then;) and as i said swap the dagger in main hand and the sword off hand and also check ur talent points if they suit the way u play

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=2244

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=12791


Both your weapons are main hand, I duno where your gettin the idea that you can have both of these equipped tbh

NeoSlicerZ

You can't expect to play a class well when you take over a character without levelling it.

Dr_MaSoN

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

You can't expect to play a class well when you take over a character without levelling it.

kayos

hahahahhaahahahahahaha

Saying rogues are weak at end game just really shows a total lack of understanding of the class. Your there to deal damage and be a play thing for the healer. The role you play in many games like guess the death order and Simon says no-one heal <insert rogue name> provide hours of entertainment for the healers. But honestly Rogues are not weak at level 60 hell their plain just not weak. Go stealth around WSG for a while and just pick on the clothies or jump someone on 10% health.

Now taking bets on what class Bartonprince Jnr will be playing next week and comlpaining about not being the "Vin Diesel" he was hoping for.

Now where was I oh ya...

..hahahahhahahahaha

Jim

I'm a lvl60 rogue and I had 2 issues with my class one of which is being fixed in the next patch. Tbh I can't really tell you where you're going wrong unless I see you play but I will try.

In AV if you stealth into a gropu of Alliance and kill one yes you will be killed because thats taking on a group on your own, you'll be killed no matter what class you are (exception being a pally or a druid or possibly some class with fear). I know this sounds really really basic but if you got give this toon (or indeed lvl'd him up yourself) check your spellbook to make sure you have all your abilities on your action bar or go to your trainer and make sure you've learnt everything.

Also I'd take that sword out of your main hand and put the barman shanker (the shanker isn't weak btw, its the best pre-epic main hand you can get, at least it was when I was using it) in it so you can use BS/Ambush. Whats your spec btw?

[edit]Just read some of the above posts, and yes you cannot have the barman and krol blade equppied at once. And also don't blame your gear, it really just doesn't come down to that.[/edit]

Bartonprince

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

I'm a lvl60 rogue and I had 2 issues with my class one of which is being fixed in the next patch. Tbh I can't really tell you where you're going wrong unless I see you play but I will try.

In AV if you stealth into a gropu of Alliance and kill one yes you will be killed because thats taking on a group on your own, you'll be killed no matter what class you are (exception being a pally or a druid or possibly some class with fear). I know this sounds really really basic but if you got give this toon (or indeed lvl'd him up yourself) check your spellbook to make sure you have all your abilities on your action bar or go to your trainer and make sure you've learnt everything.

Also I'd take that sword out of your main hand and put the barman shanker in it so you can use BS/Ambush. Whats your spec btw?

[edit]Just read some of the above posts, and yes you cannot have the barman and krol blade equppied at once. And also don't blame your gear, it really just doesn't come down to that.[/edit]

That was constructive thanks!

Ok I have the Krol Blade in the main hand and a Green with +35 attack power in the off hand (Barman shanker is actually just in my inventory)

I was playing him for a few hours yesterday and went into a raid with a new guild i was offered to join...
They were relying on me to do most of the damage while a pala and priest kept me healed.

I think being kinda used to solo'ing things with my Warlock i was expecting a bit more durability out of the rogue but i'm learning that they are pretty much glass cannons.

I didn't die in the raid and did some serious damage, My DPS was 32% of total compared to the hunter who beat me with 36% or something like that.

I'm starting to understand the class much more now and have stopped trying to jump on 3 fellas at the same time...

my build is 21/7/21 or something VERY close to that. I don't have Hemo though which i heard is good for a sword rogue.

I was going to use a good slow dagger in the main hand and a quicker one for poisons in the offhand... but it's hard to unequip an Epic.. isn't it?

DapperGent

Probably the most fun you will get out of the game is leveling up a character yourself. It is fun jumping onto other people's 60s but you're missing out an awful lot if nothing else than from a L2P perspective.

Bartonprince

DapperGent wrote:

Probably the most fun you will get out of the game is leveling up a character yourself. It is fun jumping onto other people's 60s but you're missing out an awful lot if nothing else than from a L2P perspective.

I am bud, I'm using the Rogue to get money and items used in first aid/engineering etc for what will end up being my main. I am lvling 2 at the moment to lvl60, i have a 31 Warlock and a 33 Priest (i have a 9 walock as well)

I want to farm money and gear for my alts with the rogue wich i heard is a great way of doing things

Mac daddy

Bartonprince wrote:

I want to farm money and gear for my alts with the rogue wich i heard is a great way of doing things

They are good you need to learn how to play them first and what they can and can't do you only get that from leveling them

Bartonprince

Mac daddy wrote:

They are good you need to learn how to play them first and what they can and can't do you only get that from leveling them

Or..using one for a while...

Mac daddy

For a good while

sunzz

lol.

Caliden

'e-bay' players at its best....

Binomate

I find it so hard to play any other class after playing with a rogue for three months.

Bartonprince

Caliden wrote:

'e-bay' players at its best....

It's already been explained that this was given to me to take over... No point closing the account because it won't be there in a year or however long.

So kid it's not an e-bay account.

What is it with you!

Would you have said No??

Caliden

I know its not e-bay which is why I put 'e-bay', what other way can I classify an account your friend gave you?

It won't make a difference to people on the server you play when they see you can't play a level 60 rogue very well.

All i can advise you to do is watch some basic pvp movies closely and try to mimic them.

As far as your spec goes, if you are pvping, dagger spec (seal-fate build) is the only way to go.

Bartonprince

Caliden wrote:

I know its not e-bay which is why I put 'e-bay', what other way can I classify an account your friend gave you?

It won't make a difference to people on the server you play when they see you can't play a level 60 rogue very well.

All i can advise you to do is watch some basic pvp movies closely and try to mimic them.

As far as your spec goes, if you are pvping, dagger spec (seal-fate build) is the only way to go.

Yeah i want to go daggers, But it's hard to get the decent ones without being in a good Raid guild, and you can;t get into a good raid guild unless you have the daggers... i don't undderstand it.,..

Jim

Bartonprince wrote:

Yeah i want to go daggers, But it's hard to get the decent ones without being in a good Raid guild, and you can;t get into a good raid guild unless you have the daggers... i don't undderstand it.,..

The best pre-epic daggers (as I've said) are the Barman Shanker (which you can get solo) and the Distracting Dagger (in off hand) which comes off the prince in WDM. And yes the majority of good raid guilds wont take a lvl60 rogue that is now played as an alt or money maker for someone elses main.

Woden

would i have said no? yeah sure i would

perhaps if you spent more time leveling the characters you have instead of posting bull**** you know nothing about you'd have your own level 60 and be able to play a class competently.

on a more cordial note. not sure how the shanker faired after that weapon speed normalistion thingie they did a while back

however this can be purchased

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=5267 and afaik makes a pretty good off hand

anonymous_joe

Start a rogue yourself, and play with it until you're comfortable. And learn to stunlock. Stunning is your friend.

Dr_MaSoN

Guys my gear is really bad:rolleyes:

Dustaz

Bartonprince wrote:

i came out of stealth and Gouged 1 of them and started hitting another one.

If ever the phrase l2p applied......

dlofnep

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

The best pre-epic daggers (as I've said) are the Barman Shanker (which you can get solo) and the Distracting Dagger (in off hand) which comes off the prince in WDM. And yes the majority of good raid guilds wont take a lvl60 rogue that is now played as an alt or money maker for someone elses main.

Barman shanker is not the best pre-epic dagger. Electrified dagger probably is. Just requires a bit of AV grinding. Barman Shanker's proc breaks gouges all the time.

As far as rogues go - Learn how to play the class. Rogues are brilliant! When you are in AV and there are lot of opposing faction around, chances are - Your 3 - 4k health won't do you much good. Besides, your use in AV is to ninja flags - Not to stand toe to toe with warriors.

Lose the sword BTW - Dagger rogues FTW. Switch to daggers and watch cloth wearers instantly love you.. And by love I mean not like at all.

Caliden

Dustaz wrote:

If ever the phrase l2p applied......

i lol'd irl

Jim

dlofnep wrote:

Barman shanker is not the best pre-epic dagger. Electrified dagger probably is. Just requires a bit of AV grinding. Barman Shanker's proc breaks gouges all the time.

As far as rogues go - Learn how to play the class. Rogues are brilliant! When you are in AV and there are lot of opposing faction around, chances are - Your 3 - 4k health won't do you much good. Besides, your use in AV is to ninja flags - Not to stand toe to toe with warriors.

Lose the sword BTW - Dagger rogues FTW. Switch to daggers and watch cloth wearers instantly love you.. And by love I mean not like at all.

As I said before the shanker was the best when I my rogue was at that level. Just looked up the leccy dagger and it beats the shanker hands down. Procs ftl tbh.

Horsefumbler

I kind of thought the same thing about my druid when i just dinged 60 and only had blues and was fighting epic equipped 60s in bgs. Infact I remember thinking that rogues were a bit overpowered and very hard to kill.

The problem is with the way items from end game instances are such high levels( eg. tier 2 set is item level 76 or something) its effectively like playing against a higher level class when you have to fight one of these guys.

Now that I have decent gear I can kill even epic equipped rogues pretty easily, you'll find the same thing when/if you get some nightslayer gear and a decent weapon like labotomizer, gutgore ripper, perditions blade etc.

Bartonprince

Horsefumbler wrote:

I kind of thought the same thing about my druid when i just dinged 60 and only had blues and was fighting epic equipped 60s in bgs. Infact I remember thinking that rogues were a bit overpowered and very hard to kill.

The problem is with the way items from end game instances are such high levels( eg. tier 2 set is item level 76 or something) its effectively like playing against a higher level class when you have to fight one of these guys.

Now that I have decent gear I can kill even epic equipped rogues pretty easily, you'll find the same thing when/if you get some nightslayer gear and a decent weapon like labotomizer, gutgore ripper, perditions blade etc.

Ye, i just need to get him into a decent guild and then i can do some runs to get some of those better daggers and i'll be grand. I don't really want to PvP with him as it's not my work thats been put in, but i would like him to be strong enough to take down 53+ elites alone like in Tyrs hand.

abccormac

Bartonprince wrote:

t i would like him to be strong enough to take down 53+ elites alone like in Tyrs hand.

In all fairness you should be able to do that in crappy green gear. And with either the Krol blade or shanker, and 5 pieces of shadowcraft gear you should have no problems at all. Lots of people have said it already, and I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, but the only way to really learn how a particular class works is to level it yourself.

Getting all of a classes abilities at once can be pretty overwhelming, levelling introduces them gradually and gives you a chance to learn when to use them etc. I made several characters on the test realms every time they were up, but the only one I could play properly were the warlocks, as they were the only class I had levelled myself. If you want to use the rogue to make cash for your mains, better gear will make very little difference if you cant kill an elite mob 7 levels lower than you with what you already have. Also, most decent guilds wouldn't take someone who's playing a character they haven't levelled themselves.

Bartonprince

abccormac wrote:

In all fairness you should be able to do that in crappy green gear. And with either the Krol blade or shanker, and 5 pieces of shadowcraft gear you should have no problems at all. Lots of people have said it already, and I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, but the only way to really learn how a particular class works is to level it yourself.

Getting all of a classes abilities at once can be pretty overwhelming, levelling introduces them gradually and gives you a chance to learn when to use them etc. I made several characters on the test realms every time they were up, but the only one I could play properly were the warlocks, as they were the only class I had levelled myself. If you want to use the rogue to make cash for your mains, better gear will make very little difference if you cant kill an elite mob 7 levels lower than you with what you already have. Also, most decent guilds wouldn't take someone who's playing a character they haven't levelled themselves.

Ok i've respecced to a Hemo Dagger build with improved ambush and backstab. this works much better. i just have the shanker and a decent green dagger with +35 attack power in the off hand. I'm doing much better now that i set everything up myself. I even started getting some kills in AV and WSG.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

Ivan

You didnt listen to a word we said, did you?...

/me sighs.

Bartonprince

Ivan wrote:

You didnt listen to a word we said, did you?...

/me sighs.

Didn't matter what i said m8, you would have said something like that. Thanks anyway.

Caliden

o_O what the hell are you talking about.....

Drakar

I've an idea, how about if people who want to advise BartonPrince on his tactics or specs post here, and everyone who wants to vilify him for inheriting a lvl60 character from someone else shush up.

Evac101

Recently got my rogue to 60 (beat ya 'plata! ) and I have to say if you think that taking a Tyrs Hand mob out using a rogue is difficult, esp in blues with a Krol, that you aren't familiar with any of the playstyles whiich rogues excell at. My, mostly green, rogue is still using a thrash in main hand and can take out a couple without having to heal/eat/bandage (sequentially, not simultaneously). As regards battles I've found a rogues greatest strengths to be encouraging paranoia in the enemy. Nothing like the fun of seeing a group of mages still AoEing in the distance trying to getcha after you sapped one of them or purposefully stealthing up within their view while heading towards them, even if you have no intention of going anywhere near them. Priests in particular seem suseptable to the second tactic, almost like they've been indoctrinated into believing they are rogue fodder.......

Final note is that my more experienced guildies inform me that the shanker has been nerfed a little but is still a very good choice.

Bartonprince

Evac101 wrote:

Recently got my rogue to 60 (beat ya 'plata! ) and I have to say if you think that taking a Tyrs Hand mob out using a rogue is difficult, esp in blues with a Krol, that you aren't familiar with any of the playstyles whiich rogues excell at. My, mostly green, rogue is still using a thrash in main hand and can take out a couple without having to heal/eat/bandage (sequentially, not simultaneously). As regards battles I've found a rogues greatest strengths to be encouraging paranoia in the enemy. Nothing like the fun of seeing a group of mages still AoEing in the distance trying to getcha after you sapped one of them or purposefully stealthing up within their view while heading towards them, even if you have no intention of going anywhere near them. Priests in particular seem suseptable to the second tactic, almost like they've been indoctrinated into believing they are rogue fodder.......

Final note is that my more experienced guildies inform me that the shanker has been nerfed a little but is still a very good choice.

Ok it's taking a while, but i am very slowly getting the hang of using him. I have done some duels with an epic equipped Rogue who was making mince meat of me at the start, but now i have more experience...he's still making mince meat of me .

I am also lvling up the priest as well, this is quite fun as i like the idea of healing everyone, i've done loads of PVE questing and stuff with him and he's lvl34 now, i'm quite used to using all of his spells now.

I also got my OWN Warlock lvl'd up to lvl37 on another server which is cool. The warlock seems more powerful and seems better in WSG at the moment for his lvl. But i am liking the whole priest thing.

Any suggestions for any leveling builds for him? At the moment i have the priest points all in the Shadow tree

NeoSlicerZ

Lol... chinese farmers kill the mobs at Tyr's hand with ease. Try stunlocking.

Bartonprince

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

Lol... chinese farmers kill the mobs at Tyr's hand with ease. Try stunlocking.

hehe doesn't seem true, they hit very hard and i can't heal, i am starting my attacks like this... stealth > improved ambush > Hemo > Gouge > Backstab > Backstab > Kidney Shot > Backstab > combo move (can't remember.. but it uses the combo points. And they still have loads of health left and have started beating on me then.

There was a couple of Paladins get owned there as well! hehe

Evac101

Uhm - I can solo with a cheapshot, ss, ss, (possible third ss if needed to hit 5 points), Evis, ss until the last 20-30% has been removed, rinse and repeat. This is as a 'weak' talent build sword rogue (weak referring to the lack of any 21 or 31 point talents in the build I play;D).

anonymous_joe

Use poison! Always fun...

Thren

Evac101 wrote:

Uhm - I can solo with a cheapshot, ss, ss, (possible third ss if needed to hit 5 points), Evis, ss until the last 20-30% has been removed, rinse and repeat. This is as a 'weak' talent build sword rogue (weak referring to the lack of any 21 or 31 point talents in the build I play;D).

This is almost exactly what I do - although I do throw in Riposte a fair few times and a few SnD. If you aggro more than one for whatever reason, Evasion and Blade Flurry are great. Also, Evasion and Agility potions are damn handy, whatever you are doing. As for your gear - go grind DM for the blue drops there - Evil Eye Pendant, Bracers of the Eclipse and Flamescarred Shoulders are all pretty nice...

Evac101

*shiver* DM grind - must do that for the shoulders to start FR'ing my rogue up

Luckily I'm in a guild which allows us to bring alts in on guild AQ/ZG/MC runs so the NR and FR must rise....

swiss

As a lvl 60 rogue I did grind occasionally in Tyr's hand, if the battle got tough I just used one of my cooldowns. I don't know what tactics other people use but I tend to ambush then use gouge and backstab as much as I can, and use kidney shot when I reach 5 points. Using poisons helps take them down more quickly too, instant poison VI does the trick nicely I find.

Also I would also recommend the barmans shanker as a relatively easily obtainable good blue dagger. I hated the proc on the weapon (bleed over 30 seconds) as I use gouge and blind. I now use the glacial blade (you need to get to revered in AV for this item) but keep the shanker as a backup.