Juba Sniper anyone?

Alkers

Anyone heard of this guy? An Iraqi sniper who picks off US troops one by one. shoot once then leaves. From what I've read, the US guys were saying he's amazing, shooting through gaps in body armour etc... and he's racked himself up a fair amount of kills. Some skill. He mounts a camera on his rifle too as a propoganda weapon or whatever. Link here (violent but not gore)
http://www.teorijazavere.info/upload/video/juba.wmv

jonnybadd

Not to be too pedantic but if that video is real, that's a lot of people being filmed Dieing. Is that not Illegal or at least immoral?

KdjaCL

jonnybadd wrote:

Not to be too pedantic but if that video is real, that's a lot of people being filmed Dieing. Is that not Illegal or at least immoral?

yeah it sucks, shouldnt be watching these type of things, im going to watch some rioters with a cause instead.


kdjac

Pigman II

And.... Star wipe!

Honestly! Why are the graphics on iraqi clips always so lame?

aidan_walsh

Pigman II wrote:

And.... Star wipe!

Honestly! Why are the graphics on iraqi clips always so lame?

George Lucas has exclusive editing rights.

Alkers

jonnybadd wrote:

Not to be too pedantic but if that video is real, that's a lot of people being filmed Dieing. Is that not Illegal or at least immoral?

I've seen far worse here, and I did describe what it was before giving the link so if you read the post you should know what you're about to watch.

wheres me jumpa

Pigman II wrote:

And.... Star wipe!

Honestly! Why are the graphics on iraqi clips always so lame?

Ill have you Baghdad Institute of Technology offers a fine media production course!

Pigman II

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Ill have you Baghdad Institute of Technology offers a fine media production course!

Yes they produce very good 'technical' directors .... but wheres the storytelling, the emotion? It's all craft and very little art.

wheres me jumpa

Pigman II wrote:

Yes they produce very good 'technical' directors .... but wheres the storytelling, the emotion? It's all craft and very little art.

Ah now I understand, thanks for explaining that one, I better go get CAO change of mind form!

Pigman II

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Ah now I understand, thanks for explaining that one, I better go get CAO change of mind form!

No worries.

Take our example there. It looked ok, the camera framed the shot reasonably I suppose. But did it take us inside the mind of the sniper? Not really. Perhaps our friend was having a bad day? The wife and kids nagging at him before he gets to work only to be followed by the boss warning him he'd better reach his quota by the end of the month or he wasn't getting those steak-knifes, let alone the new bmw.

A B C = Always Be Corpsifying

wheres me jumpa

Pigman II wrote:

No worries.

Take our example there. It looked ok, the camera framed the shot reasonably I suppose. But did it take us inside the mind of the sniper? Not really. Perhaps the snipers was having a bad day? The wife and kids nagging at him and the boss warning him he'd better reach his quote by the end of the month or he wasn't getting those steak-knifes, let alone the new beemer.

Or the burger he got didnt look like the burger in the picture.

biko

One shot Paddy, Iraqi edition

Sleepy

Guys, ffs, what are you doing joking about this? Anti-war or not, a little tact and respect for the fact that the images you're seeing of those kids (and most of the soldiers in Iraq are still teenagers) are in many of the cases in that clip the last seconds of their lives. It's real people dying, not fvcking Counter-Strike.

It would be interesting to see translations of the arabic(?) captions on the video but if what Simona1986 has been reading is correct about that being the work of a single sniper it really is 'Enemy at the Gates' stuff.

Can you link to the articles Simona?

wheres me jumpa

Sleepy wrote:

Guys, ffs, what are you doing joking about this? Anti-war or not, a little tact and respect for the fact that the images you're seeing of those kids (and most of the soldiers in Iraq are still teenagers) are in many of the cases in that clip the last seconds of their lives. It's real people dying, not fvcking Counter-Strike.

It would be interesting to see translations of the arabic(?) captions on the video but if what Simona1986 has been reading is correct about that being the work of a single sniper it really is 'Enemy at the Gates' stuff.

Can you link to the articles Simona?

My apologies.

Pigman II

Sleepy wrote:

Guys, ffs, what are you doing joking about this? Anti-war or not, a little tact and respect for the fact that the images you're seeing of those kids (and most of the soldiers in Iraq are still teenagers) are in many of the cases in that clip the last seconds of their lives. It's real people dying

I know! and those pictures have affected me deeply. So deeply in fact that I found the only way of dealing with theis torrent of emotions it stirred up in me was thru the calming power of humour.

Manic Moran

There is some dispute within the US as to if Juba is a real person or not. There is no indicator that says that this is not merely a collection of sniper videos taken by different people. There also is no indication of the level of injury caused to the casualties: The SAPI plates in the body armour is effective against all anti-personnel sniper rounds, to include armour piercing 7.62mm. With the exception of the face and side of the torso, hits with small arms anywhere else are not going to be fatal. Note how almost all the clips stop as soon as the round is fired, giving no indication of the results (Or lack thereof). Even a hit to the SAPI plate will generally result in someone dropping. There are quite a few misses in that video too.

I've no great quarrel on moral grounds with people watching the footage, as long as they keep everything into perspective. After all, it's what's going on. (I say this as a chap who had a sniper miss him by about three inches, the round impacted my periscope instead of my torso). There's not very much you can do against that sort of thing, you can't go around looking like you're in fear of your life every second, it gives a not particularly reassuring impression to the natives. Best thing to deal with a sniper is another sniper. They have had some successes.

NTM

Manic Moran

Pigman II wrote:

I know! and those pictures have affected me deeply. So deeply in fact that I found the only way of dealing with theis torrent of emotions it stirred up in me was thru the calming power of humour.

That worked for me as well, actually. We viewed the whole year as a year-long running gag.. :-)

NTM

Dooom

Manic Moran wrote:

The SAPI plates in the body armour is effective against all anti-personnel sniper rounds, to include armour piercing 7.62mm.

Really? Christ, they'd have to be some strong plates. Soldier'd have one hell of a bruise after that. Any chance you can drop a link for my own interest? I'd google but I'm not sure what I'm looking for exactly..

Manic Moran wrote:

Best thing to deal with a sniper is another sniper

Another sniper...with a Barrett M82A1. That'd sort this Juba lad out fairly lively.

Manic Moran

Spike wrote:

Soldier'd have one hell of a bruise after that. Any chance you can drop a link for my own interest?

They do, but it's a hell of a lot better than a hole.

The plates are marked "M-80" proof which is a NATO ball round, stronger than an AK round, and a little better than the long 7.62mm used in Druganovs.

http://gojackarmy.blogspot.com/2005/07/plate-and-bruise-body-armor-works.html

This is the bloke in the video that went around a few months ago where he was shot, dropped, got back up again, and later ended up capturing (And giving aid to) the sniper that shot him. Note the bruise, and reference to AP rounds. The last link from that page shows the Druganov used. It's an excellent rifle, just won't get through the SAPI plate.

NTM

Davei141

ManicMoran wrote:

There are quite a few misses in that video too.

Yeah it kind of makes a mockery of the whole "elite iraqi sniper juba" bull**** when hes taking shots at people's arms.

Manic Moran

No, I mean incidents such as he hits a tree instead of the bloke dragging a chap he just shot, hitting the wall above and behind a HMMWV gunner, and hitting the hatch behind a Bradley TC. However, if they went down, even by ducking as opposed to being hit, and nobody looks too hard, it's good enough for government work. I did see some arm/leg/ass hits though.

NTM

MooseJam

Anyone see the mythbusters episode when they checked the "dive under water if you are being shot at" myth. Pretty much nothing penetrated more than a couple of dozen inches, even the .50 rifle just made a big splash but the bullet didn't penetrate.
Moral of the story if those yankie troops wanna survive taking a hit from juba they should wear a fishtank on their chest and another one on their back,would increase morale too, you know what they say about fish beeing soothing.

Sleepy

MooseJam, you missed the part of that mythbusters episode where the lower calibre rounds actually went a few metres under water.

TerrorFirmer

Spike wrote:

Another sniper...with a Barrett M82A1. That'd sort this Juba lad out fairly lively.

Not only would take shear his head clean off, it'd probably take down half the wall he was hiding behind as well :cool:

Can't watch the video at work, no BB at home for the moment - have a feeling I may have seen it before however.

Dooom

HavoK wrote:

Not only would take shear his head clean off, it'd probably take down half the wall he was hiding behind as well :cool:

Exactly. Just have to aim in his general direction.

Although take his head off? More like shove it down into his foot.

Alkers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1542824,00.html
Here's one such article, makes him sound fairly good anyway.

Manic Moran

Simona1986 wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1542824,00.html
Here's one such article, makes him sound fairly good anyway.

If that article is accurate, then it also provides proof that the video is not Juba, or at least not exclusively Juba: Reference the multiple statements that Juba never fires a second shot, then note that a second shot is fired on (rare) occasions in the video. Shooting/scooting is definitely a good idea and an adherence to the principle helps survival.

There are certainly some good snipers out there. Particularly up North, where some Chechen lads showed up, they've been practising on Russians for years.

NTM

Alkers

Yeah, the video is probably a bit of a copycat alright, I only noticed once where he fires twice in that video? Some good shots through moving traffic and what not though.

jaggeh

Davei141 wrote:

Yeah it kind of makes a mockery of the whole "elite iraqi sniper juba" bull**** when hes taking shots at people's arms.

shoot a man in the arm means he has no plates and you have the possibility of hitting an artery, not only that but he goes down and his squad have 2 options, go to his aid and risk taking a follow up round or try to return fire as their friend bleeds out.

seems like a valid tactic to me.

Manic Moran

It's a valid tactic, but that doesn't mean to say that he wasn't aiming center mass and just missed the torso and hit the various other parts instead. If he's good enough to hit an arm, he can damed well take a head shot and get a definite kill. The video shows doesn't seem to show any headshots at all.

The thing about a sniper isn't that he kills people. The psychological effect is the greatest. As one of my lads (Sniper who saw the light and converted to tanks) put it, he can be as successful in his job by shooting a mug of coffee if it gets the point across. Unless the guy is LA SWAT material, he'll be aiming center mass to at least ensure a hit, armor plate or otherwise. The shot dispersion on the video appears to back this up.

NTM

thelordofcheese

Maybe I’m wrong on this, but I always thought that a sniper in a guerrilla warfare type scenario often went for a wound as opposed to a kill. The reason being that an injured man uses up allot more resources than a dead one [has to be carried away for medical attention, has to be tended to in the hospital] and as Manic Moran said the psychological effect is worth more than a kill.