Piranha banned

Stargal

Apparently Piranha has been banned from coming out again because of an article in the Election Special that was anti-Islamic. For anyone who has a copy, it's the article on the left hand side on the page before the candidate profiles. All remaining issues have been binned.

Off to a badminton match now but will comment on this later

Diablolical

So what, anybody that tries to incite hatered towards another race should not be allowed in a position of such responsibilty.

ilovemybrick

taking the piss is not the same as inciting hatred.

nutball

The PUBS committee have yet to have an official meeting regarding the matter but it is highly unlikely that another issue of Piranha will come out this term. The future of the magazine beyond that is uncertain. The Senior Dean, Cyril Smyth, has requested that all copies of the current issue be removed from circulation and the committee has complied with his request, although most appear to have been picked up by students already. An official statement will be released by PUBS early in the coming week.

Pet

****, I KNEW I should have picked it up while I could!

So what, anybody that tries to incite hatered towards another race

It's not a race, it's a religion, and is perfectly eligible to have the piss taken out of it.

Thirdfox

Was it the sand comment? My friend showed it to me and I did raise an eyebrow (like the Rock)...

DrIndy

This isn't the first time it has happened to Piranha!

But its been a while and its good they are back to their old libelous flavour and taunting college/legal circles with punishment!

Agent Smith

what ever happened to freedom of the press?


Disgracefull. whats the Bets That a Arab university printing the same stuff about Christ getting (temp?) shut down? NONE....

cuckoo

stargal wrote:

All remaining issues have been binned.

i hope it was a recycling bin they were put into, so that they can be reincarnated in a paper form that is higher up the karma chain than piranha.

aside from any other problem with the content, i just didn't find this issue all that funny.

Andrew 83

I ahven't actually read it yet so I'll reserve proper comment till after then but it seems very harsh.

I would assume that they went into the recycling bin, that's where all papers seem to go generally.

John

They should continue in a photocopied fanzine type format. Old school.

shay_562

It's not a race, it's a religion, and is perfectly eligible to have the piss taken out of it.

]

To be fair, the article was specificly insulting Arabs as opposed to Muslims, but aside from that, I think the banning is pretty ****ed up. Is there some kind of guidelines for publications within the college that they've specifically infringed upon, or is it just that they've pissed off a few of the higher-ups?

ilovemybrick

agent smith wrote:

what ever happened to freedom of the press?

never existed. never has. never will. there is no such thing as a constitutionally enshrined right to expression of opinion in this country. you have to start swimming west for that.

Andrew 83

shay_562 wrote:

]

Is there some kind of guidelines for publications within the college that they've specifically infringed upon?

No.

I've now read the article. Although some of the stuff in it was obviously racist phrasing, I thought the article was pretty clearly satire of Western attitudes towards Arabs rather than itself putting forward this racism.

xeduCat

ilovemybrick wrote:

never existed. never has. never will. there is no such thing as a constitutionally enshrined right to expression of opinion in this country. you have to start swimming west for that.

Well to be fair it's enshrined, it's just not especially strong. Given in one sentence and curtailed in the next.

Constitution of Ireland, Article 40.6.

1 The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

Boston

Diablolical wrote:

So what, anybody that tries to incite hatered towards another race should not be allowed in a position of such responsibilty.

Did you read the article?


The vast majority was grand, taking a dig not a Muslims or arabs, but people rioting and murdering in the name of alla or whatever. However, there was also references to "sand ****" and "camel ****ers". definitly not a case of being over PC this time.

Thirdfox

xeduCat wrote:

Well to be fair it's enshrined, it's just not especially strong. Given in one sentence and curtailed in the next.

And don't forget about Art. 10 in the Convention!

ApeXaviour

LiouVille wrote:

The vast majority was grand, taking a dig not a Muslims or arabs, but people rioting and murdering in the name of alla or whatever. However, there was also references to "sand ****" and "camel ****ers". definitly not a case of being over PC this time.

Okay but what I'm wondering is how did the pc brigade miss the last one? That article was pretty damn tame compared to a couple "anti-arab/muslim" articles in the previous issue. IIRC they were talking about hunting sand-n***** for fun and other such.

So is this the end of pirhana as we know it? I doubt it. I dont think there ban on setting up another satirical mag, would I be correct? I wouldnt be surprised if we saw a new mag called "Dangerous fish" or something like

As I mentioned before, call it: "Pirahna?" instead of "Pirahna!"

Boston

ApeXaviour wrote:

Okay but what I'm wondering is how did the pc brigade miss the last one? That article was pretty damn tame compared to a couple "anti-arab/muslim" articles in the previous issue. IIRC they were talking about hunting sand-n***** for fun and other such.

So is this the end of pirhana as we know it? I doubt it. I dont think there ban on setting up another satirical mag, would I be correct? I wouldnt be surprised if we saw a new mag called "Dangerous fish" or something like

I don't know. The article was the closest thing to an actual satire in the whole mag, which is kinda the irony.

cuckoo

Forget about the Irish constitution for a moment, does TCD gurantee freedom of the press? In the same way that boards.ie can edit/delete anything that's posted here, 'trinity' (in this case the Senior Dean apparently) can control the distribution of magazines in trinityland.

But, there's a second issue here as well - how much control does Pubs (which we fund through our reg fees) exert over a publication that uses the Pubs facilities, and, the Pubs endorsement to be distributed in trinityland?

With the cheap cost of photocopying/printing there's little to stop the piranha folk from talking their not-so-funny prose underground, and doing secret distribution raids on the campus. And if their aim is to shock! and amuse! by the no limits! 'humour', well, then surely that's the way to go about it...

nutball

cuckoo wrote:

Forget about the Irish constitution for a moment, does TCD gurantee freedom of the press? In the same way that boards.ie can edit/delete anything that's posted here, 'trinity' (in this case the Senior Dean apparently) can control the distribution of magazines in trinityland.

College funds Pubs so, yes, theoretically they can pull the plug on whatever they like. In reality, Pubs has a massive degree of autonomy and can pretty much publish anything - including material that is critical of the establishment or expresses 'unusual' opinions - as long as it doesn't bring Trinity into serious disrepute. Obviously, there are differing opinions regarding whether or not this particular article does, but if Trinity doesn't want to be associated with it then what they say goes.

cuckoo wrote:

But, there's a second issue here as well - how much control does Pubs (which we fund through our reg fees) exert over a publication that uses the Pubs facilities, and, the Pubs endorsement to be distributed in trinityland?

With the cheap cost of photocopying/printing there's little to stop the piranha folk from talking their not-so-funny prose underground, and doing secret distribution raids on the campus. And if their aim is to shock! and amuse! by the no limits! 'humour', well, then surely that's the way to go about it...

Given that Trinity is private property, the powers that be are entitled to put a stop to the distribution of anything they don't want on campus. In fact, the grounds staff have been told to dispose of any publications distributed on campus that are not published by either Pubs or the SU (regardless of content) because they create a litter problem. So if the Piranha team were to start an independent magazine, any copies distributed would probably be summarily dumped, and if the content was deemed offensive (and it wouldn't take much for that to happen) they would more than likely face disciplinary action.

cuckoo

nutball wrote:

Given that Trinity is private property, the powers that be are entitled to put a stop to the distribution of anything they don't want on campus. In fact, the grounds staff have been told to dispose of any publications distributed on campus that are not published by either Pubs or the SU (regardless of content) because they create a litter problem. So if the Piranha team were to start an independent magazine, any copies distributed would probably be summarily dumped, and if the content was deemed offensive (and it wouldn't take much for that to happen) they would more than likely face disciplinary action.

*sigh*

hence my use of such words as 'secret', 'underground', etc.

and, following on from the concept of a 'secret', who would College haul up for disciplinary action?

nutball

cuckoo wrote:

*sigh*

hence my use of such words as 'secret', 'underground', etc.

So they're going to pass them around in discreet brown envelopes to a select few with codenames like Silver Fox and Brown Owl, who will be trained under pain of death not to leave a copy carelessly lying around or be seen flicking through it in the Arts Block? The point of Piranha is to cause controversy, which can't be achieved if it's only seen by a handful of their friends. Forgive me for thinking that when you used the term 'distribution', you in fact meant distribution.

cuckoo wrote:

and, following on from the concept of a 'secret', who would College haul up for disciplinary action?

They know who is behind Piranha and the Junior Dean has already summoned people involved. It wouldn't be too great a stretch to presume that any further issues came from the same people.

And please leave out the *sigh*ing - it's not terribly endearing.

Nietzschean

no but it wouldn't be very difficult for them to get some external email address and pdf up new copies and just email them out to people, with the rate forwards go around it'd probally get higher readership than normal.

Pythia

I read that copy when I was in TCD last week. Hilarious stuff.

cuckoo

nutball wrote:

So they're going to pass them around in discreet brown envelopes to a select few with codenames like Silver Fox and Brown Owl, who will be trained under pain of death not to leave a copy carelessly lying around or be seen flicking through it in the Arts Block? The point of Piranha is to cause controversy, which can't be achieved if it's only seen by a handful of their friends. Forgive me for thinking that when you used the term 'distribution', you in fact meant distribution.

The demise of peoplefinder would make it a fraction more hassle to gather a lot of email addresses, but there's always a lot of emails floating around (esp in group emails sent from socs and clubs that put all the addresses in the 'to' field). Bebo and myspace, and all those would also be helpful in the spread of anything.

And, although College do clean up litter, a stack of leaflets/magazines will remain undisturbed for several hours, even days, in the Hamilton and Arts Block - how many flyers for nightclubs hang around for ages? While the use of code words appeals to my spy novel reading self, it really wouldn't be necessary. While College may retain control over 'official' publications and their distribution, they're not in the position to monitor what we read ourselves - they're not the Nazis and anyone producing a renegade publication is hardly the White Rose.

nutball wrote:

They know who is behind Piranha and the Junior Dean has already summoned people involved. It wouldn't be too great a stretch to presume that any further issues came from the same people.

And please leave out the *sigh*ing - it's not terribly endearing.

Given that piranha comes from the Pubs stable, well, of course it is known who is behind it. I don't think that the College authorities would really care enough to track down the instigators of further unapproved issues of it - as long as they were hosted and emailed from external sources i don't think they'd really be able to do anything beyond instructing security and housekeeping to clear away any hard copies if seen.

Personally, i consider my sighing as endearing as your vaguely condescending request for me to cease it.

nutball

cuckoo wrote:

The demise of peoplefinder would make it a fraction more hassle to gather a lot of email addresses, but there's always a lot of emails floating around (esp in group emails sent from socs and clubs that put all the addresses in the 'to' field). Bebo and myspace, and all those would also be helpful in the spread of anything.

You made no reference in your original post to electronic methods of distribution:

cuckoo wrote:

With the cheap cost of photocopying/printing there's little to stop the piranha folk from talking their not-so-funny prose underground, and doing secret distribution raids on the campus.

cuckoo wrote:

While College may retain control over 'official' publications and their distribution, they're not in the position to monitor what we read ourselves - they're not the Nazis and anyone producing a renegade publication is hardly the White Rose.

No, they're not in a position to monitor what we read but, as I've already stated, they are in a position to prevent the on campus distribution of undesirable material if they so choose.

cuckoo wrote:

I don't think that the College authorities would really care enough to track down the instigators of further unapproved issues of it - as long as they were hosted and emailed from external sources i don't think they'd really be able to do anything beyond instructing security and housekeeping to clear away any hard copies if seen.

Whether they care enough and whether they would be able to do anything are entirely different. Yes, they do care enough, which I know for reasons I don't think I'm entitled to post. No, they would not be able to prevent material being hosted and emailed to students from external sources but presumably if they were sufficiently bothered by it, they could attempt to filter out mail from the relevant address from the college mail system. But I know very little about computers. And that obviously wouldn't prevent anything being forwarded between students or circulated through non-college addresses or by the other means you've mentioned.

This is all moot anyway, as Piranha has not been "banned".

cuckoo wrote:

Personally, i consider my sighing as endearing as your vaguely condescending request for me to cease it.

I don't really understand why you're so intent on getting a rise out of me but I really would appreciate it if you could stop.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

nutball wrote:

In fact, the grounds staff have been told to dispose of any publications distributed on campus that are not published by either Pubs or the SU (regardless of content) because they create a litter problem.

Is that why we get Irish Independent's, Sunday Business Post's, The Ticket, GCN, etc around campus?

p.s. lose the aggressive attitude...

europerson

Free Evening Heralds today.

nutball

Roundtower2 wrote:

Is that why we get Irish Independent's, Sunday Business Post's, The Ticket, GCN, etc around campus?

nutball wrote:

In fact, the grounds staff have been told to dispose of any publications distributed on campus that are not published by either Pubs or the SU (regardless of content) because they create a litter problem.

nutball wrote:

No, they're not in a position to monitor what we read but, as I've already stated, they are in a position to prevent the on campus distribution of undesirable material if they so choose.

Neither comment claims that they actually do it.

Roundtower2 wrote:

p.s. lose the aggressive attitude...

I was under the impression that Boards was a faciliity for people with differing opinions to have a two-sided discussion. Maybe I should use more smilies when I disagree with someone. ? It was cuckoo's choice to start talking down to me as if I were an imbecile. And although I admit that that does get my back up, all I've been posting are the facts of the situation.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

nutball wrote:

I was under the impression that Boards was a faciliity for people with differing opinions to have a two-sided discussion. Maybe I should use more smilies when I disagree with someone. ? It was cuckoo's choice to start talking down to me as if I were an imbecile. And although I admit that that does get my back up, all I've been posting are the facts of the situation.

Sure it is - just seemed you were being a bit negative in the tones of your comments. No reason, you couldn't have made those points in a more positive tone. Maybe, because you are new, you misunderstood cuckoo's way of putting things...really don't think she meant anything negative...

ISAW

xeduCat wrote:

Well to be fair it's enshrined, it's just not especially strong. Given in one sentence and curtailed in the next.

As regards the right to free speech. Under Irish LAw no rights are absolute. should the right to say what you want be absolute? Should you be able to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre?

As regards the mag in question: I thought the outline of election candidates were purile and of extreme offence. Any muslim comments were aside from that! It really isnt funny to call people fat or to say they are so ugly they resemble acid being poured on their face. But even if it was funny for some it isnt really satire or any sort of humour one would expect from sophisticated studnets.

ISAW

nutball wrote:

I was under the impression that Boards was a faciliity for people with differing opinions to have a two-sided discussion. Maybe I should use more smilies when I disagree with someone. ? It was cuckoo's choice to start talking down to me as if I were an imbecile. And although I admit that that does get my back up, all I've been posting are the facts of the situation.

Boards.ie is in no way a fair arbitrator! Nor do they claim to be! The moderators are clearly biased. I have been banned becaused I pointed out a moderator made a clearly silly comment and he took that as a personal comment on him. I asked him to go to another moderator for an opinion but he banned me instead.

I accept the bias on the basis that I may at any time retrieve all posts I have made. I respect some of these biased moderators put in their own time and good luck to them. But please do not try to pretend boards is as fair as one can expect. for what it is worth the Irish leagl system isnt perfect either.

Now backto the main topic. If pirhana are banned then there are procedures much more stringent transparent and open than boards have to assess that.

Nietzschean

from where? thats a bit of an aribtary comment. We don't claim to be fair though we do aim for it.

I don't recall banning you, so probally wasn't from this board....

If pirhana are banned then there are procedures much more stringent transparent and open than boards have to assess that.

ummm?

Crash

Hrmmm, maybe the last two posts should be split (well, not all of ISAW's, but still) - much more of a feedback issue, but i'd personally, as a moderator, like to stress that most mods attempt to be as objective as possible, but on an issue where a subjective viewpoint of said mod is coming into it, it can be ridiculuously ****ing hard.) also ISAW i think you need to stress that for the most point, any modding decisions on this board have generally been made not necessarily against the poster, but in all situations for the good of this board.

The Shol'va

ISAW wrote:

It really isnt funny to call people fat or to say they are so ugly they resemble acid being poured on their face. But even if it was funny for some it isnt really satire or any sort of humour one would expect from sophisticated studnets.

I'm sorry, but have you SEEN Shane O'Brien? :P

And, to quote from the previous issue in the article 'British Police clash with protesters over Tube-Hunting row'.

And it's also good for morale. Nothing unites a bunch of rookie cops more than pumping round after round into some dirty little sand ****** and watching the Islamic extremism that filled his brain oozing out onto the floor of a half-empty tube carriage.

So, it wasn't the use of the phrase "sand ******" anyway. I really wish I hadn't left my copy at work. The rebutal to that idiot who rang up Joe Duffy was great.

Nietzschean

crash_000 wrote:

Hrmmm, maybe the last two posts should be split (well, not all of ISAW's, but still) - much more of a feedback issue, but i'd personally, as a moderator, like to stress that most mods attempt to be as objective as possible, but on an issue where a subjective viewpoint of said mod is coming into it, it can be ridiculuously ****ing hard.) also ISAW i think you need to stress that for the most point, any modding decisions on this board have generally been made not necessarily against the poster, but in all situations for the good of this board.

my point is i don't see his name in the access list, so he was never banned off this board, so discussing other board moderators is at best irrelevent on here...

nutball

The Shol'va wrote:

The rebutal to that idiot who rang up Joe Duffy was great.

Someone rang up about the current issue? Was that today (Monday)?
Joe's not looking well since he lost the beard.

shay_562

The rebutal to that idiot who rang up Joe Duffy was great.

Someone rang up about the current issue? Was that today (Monday)?
Joe's not looking well since he lost the beard.

No, someone rang up last time about the whole New Orleans thing. They printed a (****ing deadly, if I may say so) reply to her inside the back cover.

So if I bring my copy of this issue of Pirahna into college, can it be confiscated randomly? How serious are they about this crackdown?

ilovemybrick

shay_562 wrote:

So if I bring my copy of this issue of Pirahna into college, can it be confiscated randomly? How serious are they about this crackdown?

yeh they can confiscate it and then make you wear a little yellow star of piranha.:rolleyes: is this supposed to be a serious question?

Ideo

i think the magazine is just bad taste, its not satirical, its not even funny, just sad

europerson

Piranha used to be a lot funnnier. This issue was just tasteless, in many ways. Its humour has been lost.

Stargal

Well it won't be coming out again this term anyway, decision has been made.

cuckoo

stargal wrote:

Well it won't be coming out again this term anyway, decision has been made.

Is that for the rest of the academic year, or just for the week and a bit that's left of Hilary term?

Stargal

Sorry, I meant to say for the rest of the academic year.

Nietzschean

so who wants to write the e-piranha then?

Ron DMC

Nietzschean wrote:

so who wants to write the e-piranha then?

/me raises his hand.

shay_562

So if I bring my copy of this issue of Pirahna into college, can it be confiscated randomly? How serious are they about this crackdown?

yeh they can confiscate it and then make you wear a little yellow star of piranha. :rolleyes:

...which is my point exactly. Most people already have copies, or know someone who has one. And since they're clearly not going to be going around confiscating them, what does a ban on this issue really achieve? Very little. And banning future editions doesn't do a huge amount either, since people have already outlined how easy it is to distribute something like that without college permission. It all seems overly harsh and dictatorial, with very little actual benefit for the college beyond saving a bit of face.

nutball

shay_562 wrote:

...which is my point exactly. Most people already have copies, or know someone who has one. And since they're clearly not going to be going around confiscating them, what does a ban on this issue really achieve? Very little. And banning future editions doesn't do a huge amount either, since people have already outlined how easy it is to distribute something like that without college permission. It all seems overly harsh and dictatorial, with very little actual benefit for the college beyond saving a bit of face.

Piranha's
not
banned.

sybarite

What's the story with the latest ban. What is the editor's name? Can I get a copy? Will pay 25 Euro