Diet and Supplementing

Dragan

Hey guys,

since finding this we board i have seen many cool threads about different things but one thing i can't recall seeing discussed is diet and supplementing.

With my main area being an interest in general fitness and an unhealthy obsession with weights i was wondering is this purely because this is not a huge deal to some here or is it all pretty grass roots and basic???

Any replies would be greatly appreciated, also if you wouldn't mind if any of the guys here who compete follow specific programs or utilise specific supplements that would be pretty cool to know too!!!!

judomick

last time this was asked it was moved to the fitness thread i guess if ask sports specific question i could answer?

Dragan

To be honest i don't think it belongs on the fitness thread, as I'm pretty much asking what you guys do specifically for your own individual arts and what advantages you feel it lends you.

To be honest, on a board where i am lucky enough to get to chat with some of the best martial artists around it is something i would be very interested in hearing about. Hopefully The People's Mod will help me out here. Or if, it does get moved, if you guys wouldn't mind responding anyway that would be sweet.

Cheer guys.

dlofnep

This shouldn't be moved to their as fitness and diet is just as important in martial arts as anything else.

I'm interested in this aswell as I have about 9KG to lose and with work, I don't get much time to train much. I hear chicken, fish and veg is a good diet. Pity is, in work they rarely serve anything healthy so I'm stuck eating pears all day - My belly wants more!!

Dragan

dlofnep wrote:

I hear chicken, fish and veg is a good diet. Pity is, in work they rarely serve anything healthy so I'm stuck eating pears all day - My belly wants more!!

Hey dude, why not just prepare some meals and bring them to work??? The best thing to do is eat small meals regularly, chicken and fish are all decent, and keep the carbs complex and the fibrous veg high. Avoid things like carrots and pea's and sweetcorn as these are pretty calories dense.

SO at the moment do you follow any specific plan or is is just a "see food" diet?

Roper

I haven't competed in about 1 1/2 years so I seem to be in a permanent off season, during which I follow my grandmothers maxim "everything in moderation".

I take two supplements, Glucosamine and a multi-vitamin, I eat balanced meals and a big ass whoppin breakfast. When I was competing I was never far off my fight weight, being lucky and all, but it was all chicken and brown rice!
I did try carbo-loading once but didn't notice any discernable difference in performance.

Millionaire

Hi..

18 months ago I tried to follow the body for life program www.bodyforlife.com
to supplement martial arts training. BFL is a very intense program of weights, fat burining running and food. its 12 weeks long. after 5-6 weeks i stopped as I was doing BFL in morning, and MA 4 nights a week. it was way too much, never mind the time preparing food and tins of tuna to lug everwhere with me and protein shakes etc etc. MA is more important to me, so BFL had to go, ...though it is an excellent program. My goal was to build muscle, but BFL very good for fat people to loose weight , and get in shape.

Now I do weights , one body part a day and 2 exercises for the specific part. and lift real heavy on dumbells. it takes 15 mins max. I do this to give me strenght and power for MA. not for size or anything.

as for eating, chicken, fish, sometimes beef, with rice, and I eat tons of green veg with this. the more green veg the better. Google "Green Diet" and you will learn alot about eating green.

Only problem i have is I love to drink 3 cans of beer (thats my limit) a few nights a week. so the 6 pack evades me! LOL!!!! a man gotta have some pleasure!

yomchi

Hi all,

I'm in the lucky position of having trained with Eamonn Manning, some of you guys might know him. He came 3rd in the world Natural BB championships in November. He's a great guy for helping out normal joe's like me with diet and routine. He put together a fantastic diet for myself last year, his knowledge is second to none. He runs a supplement shop and company called Nutrition X in Blachardstown. He's there every Wednesday through to Saturday and has no problem giving advice etc.

Anything I can do to help just let me know!

Supplements I use at the moment are whey proteins, Animal Stack and X-plod.

Jon

dlofnep

Dragan wrote:

Hey dude, why not just prepare some meals and bring them to work??? The best thing to do is eat small meals regularly, chicken and fish are all decent, and keep the carbs complex and the fibrous veg high. Avoid things like carrots and pea's and sweetcorn as these are pretty calories dense.

SO at the moment do you follow any specific plan or is is just a "see food" diet?

I don't have a specific diet as it's hard to follow it given the circumstances. I could pack a lunch, but I'm very unorganised but I need to have a strict diet. I'm just kinda watching what I eat now.

Also, that body for life challenge looks great. I might try it out.

Millionaire

dlofnep wrote:

I don't have a specific diet as it's hard to follow it given the circumstances. I could pack a lunch, but I'm very unorganised but I need to have a strict diet. I'm just kinda watching what I eat now.

Also, that body for life challenge looks great. I might try it out.

Some NLP to help you change.

Think hard and visualise and really feel in your gut the answer to this question...

John, What is it going to cost you if you do not have a strict diet?

(answer that with emotion , really feel what it will cost you)

What are you going to loose out on John, if you do not change this today?

How are you going to feel if you loose a competition and get your butt whomped in front of everyone, if you have low energy due to a bad diet???

Ok now imagine how you will look, sound and feel, if you change your diet and
have energy and are eating like a pro fighter???


SO ARE YOU GOING TO CHANGE????

dlofnep

I feel pumped Millionaire!! You can be my nutrition coach!

loz

Dragan wrote:

i am lucky enough to get to chat with some of the best martial artists around

and me.........:D

I tend to eat what i like - although ( just as well ! ) gets lots of exercise, MA twice a week and every other day cardio (am lucky enought to have a gym at work) and i climb a mountain each sunday ( i'm an avid walker - since i'm middle aged ). - Djouce this week.

I think if i altered my diet ( stopped post 23:00 snacks - and eat less chocolate at work - drank less after rolling on friday nights !) i'd be a bit fitter.

But iv'e no reason to super fit - no major goals to achieve - so i'm not really training for anything other than to stay healthy and have fun.

Loz

Musashi

Back when I used to train for Tournaments and had to make weight I used a lot of supplements to help out. Some I found good and others were pants imo.
I needed the help as when I was cutting I used to get sick a lot (colds and Flu) and suffer with Mouth ulcers like crazy.

Anyhow, the stuff I used pretty regular was a s follows.

Multi.-Vitamin.- I like Pharmaton but I'm sure any good one will do.
Vitamin C. - Gram a day time release tabs, even up to five grams to stave off colds. I took it mainly for it's free radical scavenging properties, and the nuclear yellow urine was funny
Creatine- The one supplement I really saw a difference in my lifting and recovery with, even after just a week on it. I know it gets a bad press but one of the lads from Fitness posted his thesis on it on the wikipedia, so check it out for yourselves.
Cod Liver Oil- The joints seemed more mobile and less "clicky" when I take this, placebo? I like it anyway.
Flax Seed Oil- Mixed in the morning Protein Shake, not really mixed though, floats on top and makes you gag. Good for Cholesterol levels and stuff though, I think Dr. Colgan has done a lot of work on this stuff if you want to read up on it.
Whey Protein- If I was tryiong to bulk I added regular Whey Shakes to regular "meals", I dunno if Tuna from the can should be called a meal really.
Casein Protein- Taken in the before bedtime shake as it breaks down slower than Whey protein. A pain in the hole to mix in.
Kelp Tablets- Contain Iodine and supposed to help regulate weight and Thyroid function, Not sure they did anything really.
Ginseng- Supposed to help you adapt to stresses, again I felt no difference when on or off this so I dropped it.
Chinese Green Tea- Lovely stuff especially the flavoured varieties. Free radical scavenger and thermogenic (slightly) and way better for you than ordinary tea or Coffee. Highly recommended!
Herbal Viagra- Oh, ahh well see, they weren't for me, one of the lads like.............his missus...........never mind ok!

Oh and if anybody else gets the bad mouth ulcers try your pharmacy for mycostatin, it's very good to clear them up. The only other health shop thingy I use is a "Pit Rock", sort of a natural deodorant made from salts compressed into a bar. Used on wet skin after a shower like a roll on it kills the smelly bacteria fellas and doesn't clash with your aftershave. So PMA's Brut or Colms CK1 don't have to compete

Roper

Jaysus fella you're a regular junkie!

I don't "lift", I primarily use bodyweight exercises, namely pull ups, push ups and squats, so I've never felt the need to use anything other than a good diet. But when I used to lift regularly I found that weight simply would not go on. I'm sure it would be the same now.
So question:
Do you think supplemts like whey or creatine are necessary for weight gain in training cycles? Or is there dietary (ie.eating loads) concerns to be looked after before this?

dlofnep

I've heard alot of bad things about creatine.

Clive

Dragan wrote:

if you wouldn't mind if any of the guys here who compete follow specific programs or utilise specific supplements that would be pretty cool to know too!!!!

I don't take any supplements on general principle, but in my youth I did take cod liver oil since my joints were fecked at that stage. I might take something if I was looking to gain a lot of weight, but since I'm usually more interested in losing weight, I'm grand.

I don't follow a diet unless I have to make weight for a competition/fight, at which point I just clean up what I eat, have smaller meals five or six times a day, and not eat all the chocolate in sight. Cut out processed foods and stick with decent meat, fruit and vegetables. That's about it.

Niall Keane

Rashers, Sausage, Egg, Pudding fried in butter, then head out double take bacon and cheese x4 and a choclate malt, arrive back a baking bowl of chicken/ ham carbonara, you know I'm right

Millionaire

about 6 years ago I was doing a weights a few nights a week.

I went to a Tony Quinn shop and bought creatine.
I also bough this other mad expensive product I think it was
called "Muscle and Brain complex" you had to take 4 pills per
workout.

Well when I took it I hoored the weights out of it like never before,
it was amazing. I took it for a month, and was full of beans pumping
iron for that month. only thing is it cost near £ 1 per capsule.

I do not know what was in it, but it certainly worked.!!

Fish oil is way better than Cod Liver oil.

Musashi

For putting up weight you'd need to have the diet right and also look at how much cardio you do. No sense being an animal at weights then burning out on cardio as well. The real monsters only really walk with a treadmill at an incline, they aren't CV fit but that's not what they are training for. You could try lessen the cardio and bulk up to your desired size, then maintain your weights rather than going for more mass, and add cardio back to cut up. I've heard it said that you need to be a stone to a stone and a half over your desired weight to cut down and hold the size. So if a 12 stone guy wants to be 14 stone cut, he needs to eat and train up to 15 or 15 and a half stone, then cut up.

Dlofnep wrote:

I've heard alot of bad things about creatine

That's why I mentioned the thread where it got discussed to death over in fitness, and the Wiki where the member posted his paper on it. Check it out and make an informed decision.

And Dr. Michael Colgan, the guy I mentioned in relation to Flax Oils has his site here.

fianna.5u.com

My "would-be" pre fight training consists of:

Monday, Wednesday and Friday Lunch Time in the Park - Cardio

Tuesday and Thursday Lunch - Weight Training, mostly O-lifts.

Monday, Thursday, Friday Evening, and Saturday Morning - Fight Training

Tuesday - BJJ and MT, Wednesday, Free style wrestling.

I eat Paleo because it is the absolute daddy.

I ruptured my medial ligament 5 weeks before my fight so I couldnt actually train.

If you really want a good picture I suppose go here: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-how.html
Pay attention to World Class Fitness in 100 words, in fact:

World-Class Fitness
in 100 Words:
Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. Regularly learn and play new sports.

Peace

Roper

Schweet Pearce. Are you another proponent of the Paleo Diet?

It's funny how we've forgotten some of the fundamentals of health. Bearing in mind the enourmous advances in health and nutrition of the last 50 years, essentially my grandmothers "everything in moderation", a common saying in her generation, holds true for most common sense diets.

Quite how "bread and dripping" fits into that category I don't know:)

Colm_OReilly

It was stokesy who turned us on to Paleo. BTW dried Mango is delicious.

fianna.5u.com

Paleo all the way!!!

Since I started doing paleo (off and on but usually somewhere in between) I started doing Medical Anthropology Modules in College. Within Anthropology the "Hunter-Gatherer" diet has been advocated for nearly 2 decades. I couldn't beleive how slow I was to cop it!

Needless to say in my last exam I did the question: "Outline how it could be argued that agriculture was humankinds greatest mistake."

On an aside, often times the SD arguements are quashed by the syndrome-x defence arguments. Paleo with out a doubt will make the biggest difference to your quality of life and life expectancy.


As for training MMA, the more water you drink regularly the less you retain (thank you former Mr Teen America Chris Brennan!). Eating green leafy vegtables boosts your endurance (thank you former HW and LHW UFC Champ Randy Couture) and Pumpkin seed oil is like f**Kin Roids!!! (ya'll can thank me for that later haha)

Peace

Millionaire

For an experiment 3 years back, I ate the green diet, strict Vegan and 80% green veg, as its supposed to give up massive energy, never get sick etc etc.
I last just over 30 days, and drinking only water too. I fell from 12 stone down to 10 1/2 stone and I looked and felt like crap. so after about 30 days, I got so peed off, I dumped my salad in the bin and got an Indian and 4 cans of beer! My goal with the Vegan was to have optimal health and energy.

Hi Fianna, if your studying Anthropology your a dosser....I got a degree in anthropology ;-)

Colm_OReilly

Anthropology is the single greatest pursuit of mankind, it instantly makes you smarter than absolutely everyone, even fellow anthropologists. I was going to do Anthro in DBS but they changed it,

Tell me more about the Pumpkin Seed Oil please

Valmont

I was on creatine for a while. I think if you want to maximise its effects, you gotta eat healthy food. That seemed to work for me. I didn't gain any tremendous muscle mass but my recovery time reduced dramatically. Usually the whole day after fight class I would be in absolute bits, but with Creatine, I was just a small bit stiff.

The one thing I would recommend to everybody is to drink lots of water. If you're fully hydrated going into a fight class, you will notice that you can last much much longer.

fianna.5u.com

Okay, More on Pumpkin seed oil. Firstly, you should of course try it and post your findings here. My diet is fairly regular so when I make a change I can easily identify the cause. (like the hang over I have today from sweets in the Cinema).

So pumkin seed oil. Its an oil recomended by 2 camps.
1/ By diet "experts" for older men who arent proucing as much Testosterone
2/ By Paleo "experts" who find it to be one of the best paleo oils.

Now the thing with oils, especially the paleo oils, (I'm just calling htem that because in The Paleo Diet they are graded from FLax Seed down a scale), they loose their nutrients wehn cooked. We'll not Pumkin Seed Nukka!

So basically the goodness that you get from Pumpkin seed is maintained through cooking.

Anyway, I find that on weeks where I have it (especially those weeks where I have gone a week or two without it) I feel "pumped". I have more energy and I feel stronger.

So dont take my world for it try it out yourself. By the way, dont be put of by the cost (it is expensive) try it once, if it works its worth the money, if not, well at least you know.

Oh yeah, another note about oils. There is an oil alot of people use called "cool oil" which has the "perfect" balance of Omega 3, 6 and 9. I find this oil is essentially useless, maybe its not meant for cooking but when I cook with it, it stinks of fish.

Peace
P.S. I used to use supplements like Whey etc I tried Tribbulus (spelling) but I found that after I quit that, and quit lifting weights then months later went on to paleo and further later I was stronger and heavier than I ever was with weights and protein. So it didnt work for me, I know it does work for some.
I cant recoment Paleo highly enough. I wasnt impressed with the Paleo Diet for athletes, for this sport and to my mind it was just paleo with the added detail "if your going to cheat, do so after training". Thats just obvious.

Peace

Dragan

fianna.5u.com wrote:

P.S. I used to use supplements like Whey etc I tried Tribbulus (spelling) but I found that after I quit that, and quit lifting weights then months later went on to paleo and further later I was stronger and heavier than I ever was with weights and protein. So it didnt work for me, I know it does work for some.
I cant recoment Paleo highly enough. I wasnt impressed with the Paleo Diet for athletes, for this sport and to my mind it was just paleo with the added detail "if your going to cheat, do so after training". Thats just obvious.

Peace

Heya Fianna,

just one theory and one question the these changes! By any chance were you eating more meat, especially red meat, on the Paleo diet that you had been when you were supplementing with Whey?

The whey can be very fast digesting and fast acting in the systems, whereas good sources of red meat take longer to digest and provide a much steadier stream of amino acids for the body to utilise. Also, if you can get your red meats sources from "grass fed" cattle in your butchers then do so. Much richer in B12, CLA and iron, and a little higher in protein content. Some studies also hint that grass fed cattle produce meat and milk with much higher levels of Leucine which is pretty much the UBER BCAA.

fianna.5u.com

Dragan wrote:

The whey can be very fast digesting and fast acting in the systems, whereas good sources of red meat take longer to digest and provide a much steadier stream of amino acids for the body to utilise. Also, if you can get your red meats sources from "grass fed" cattle in your butchers then do so. Much richer in B12, CLA and iron, and a little higher in protein content. Some studies also hint that grass fed cattle produce meat and milk with much higher levels of Leucine which is pretty much the UBER BCAA.

Dude, like I said, I cant recomend paleo enough... I mean "grass fed" Red meat is my bread and butter! Haha. I always ate alot of meat but on paleo I eat a large portion of meat of fish 5 or 6 times a day.
Grass Feb beef also redued colesterol. But I dont know what that is, I mean I no longer choose to know what any of the broken down compnants of food are. I dont need to. I used to spend quite alot of time looking up info on nutrition, until I found paleo. No I dont bother and I have all the extra time!! SSIAs? Happy Days! haha

Peace

Dragan

Sweet.

Think i might do some research on this and see what i make of it. Nice one bro!

Frank Bullitt

has anyone her ever used xyience or that nox creatine stuff,bought some today,hopefully it will work out

Dragan

Gintonious wrote:

has anyone her ever used xyience or that nox creatine stuff,bought some today,hopefully it will work out

To be honest dude, your just kinda paying for a name man. Unless your looking to gain more muscle mass NOX will not really be of help to you, and besides which, the whole arginnine absorbtion problem is still limiting many products to being about 1 tenth as effective as the claims they are making.

Eat right, take your multivitamin and maybe 5 grams of creatine a day and you should be fine dude.

PJG

Hi Fianna,

Would you be blood type O by any chance ?

Frank Bullitt

Dragan wrote:

To be honest dude, your just kinda paying for a name man. Unless your looking to gain more muscle mass NOX will not really be of help to you, and besides which, the whole arginnine absorbtion problem is still limiting many products to being about 1 tenth as effective as the claims they are making.

Eat right, take your multivitamin and maybe 5 grams of creatine a day and you should be fine dude.

im not takin xyience man,its far too expensive but i did get a nox creatine product today,works very well i must say