pre-exhaustion workouts

g'em

Gosh, I'm full of questions today..

On a week off from weights this week :mad: , has to be done, but looking at shaking up my workouts for the next block. At the moment, happy with strength (but could always do with a little more!!) and general size but really want to try and add a bit more definition and separation.

If anyone mentions the word diet I will take no responsibility for my actions...

So I'm thinking increase the reps and lower the weight to increase muscle endurance, encourage fat loss and make sure I get nice full ROM on all exercises.

But I'm also thinking maybe I could try pre-exhaustion to keep the strength levels up while I'm doing it? I've spoken to a couple of guys who found it brilliant for adding size when it was done with heavy sets, few reps, but how will it fare with lower weights and high reps? I'm guessing that due to the nature of the programme I probably won't be able to knock out too many reps on a compound exercise straight after an isolation anyway, but tbh, I just want something new to help me shake up the routine a little bit. Boredom is my worst enemy in the gym, and I can get a little complacent if my routine becomes tedious.

So what do y'all think? Anyone tried it? Any other suggestions to help me meet my goals? The multitude of knowledge and wealth of information I know I'm going to get about this is all very welcome.

Dragan

I have always found pre-exhaustion to be a very good way to work the muscle. As you know my dear i'm always trying to get the work done in a new way and i like to cycle some pre-exhaustion workouts into my routine as a good way to shock the muscle. For a long time my shoulders lacked the strenght the rest of me seemed to be developing and i began to utilise pre-exhaustion techniques in my workouts and low and behold, up they came and are now on a par with the rest of me. I also noted some nice added definition and shape to the muscle as well.

I;ve never done an 8 to 12 week cycle of primarily pre-exhaustion routines so cannot comment on that aspect, but when i have gone after singular muscle groups with it they have always come along for me.

amazingemmet

I'm not too versed on pre-exhaustion so can't really comment on it but if your looking for defintion and seperation i find bodyweight conditioning to be the best for it, not the sort of bodyweight exercises they give out in gyms but ones based on gymnastics methods. I can do you up a program if you want. Also make sure your diet is up to scratch :P

g'em

amazingemmet wrote:

Also make sure your diet is up to scratch :P

cheeky sod.

But yeah, I'd be really interested in a bodyconditioning programme, ideally something I can do something alongside the weight training. Cheers m'dear.

amazingemmet

Sorry m'dear but this program is my patented bodyweight extreme program and if you can manage to do weights with it fair dues to you but for a couple of weeks i don't think you'd manage as the exercises are all fairly hard going from the start

Dragan

amazingemmet wrote:

Sorry m'dear but this program is my patented bodyweight extreme program and if you can manage to do weights with it fair dues to you but for a couple of weeks i don't think you'd manage as the exercises are all fairly hard going from the start

Rubbish, your just weak...... WEAK I TELL YOU!!!

ahemmmm.......excuse me.:D

amazingemmet

I get that alot when i get people to try out the body weight conditioning, dragan try do dips like this next time your doing them. Half lever dips: assume dip position hands slightly wider then shoulders now point your toes hard and lift your legs up keeping them straight til they're just past 90 degrees with your body. now lock your body in this position and then do some dips while maintaining this positon

g'em

amazingemmet wrote:

Half lever dips: assume dip position hands slightly wider then shoulders now point your toes hard and lift your legs up keeping them straight til they're just past 90 degrees with your body. now lock your body in this position and then do some dips while maintaining this positon

whaaaaaa???

is there a slightly more user-friendly version by any chance ? please tell me that's something I'd lead up to by doing lots of 'easier' versions beforehand..

Dragan

amazingemmet wrote:

I get that alot when i get people to try out the body weight conditioning, dragan try do dips like this next time your doing them. Half lever dips: assume dip position hands slightly wider then shoulders now point your toes hard and lift your legs up keeping them straight til they're just past 90 degrees with your body. now lock your body in this position and then do some dips while maintaining this positon

Dude, i'm fat remember, i couldn't do normal dips if i tried! ha ha ha

amazingemmet

The exercise can be modified to make them easier alright, i was just giving those to dragan to make him cry. Sorry dragan forgot you were fat i picture you like a bear in my mind for some reason.

Dragan

amazingemmet wrote:

The exercise can be modified to make them easier alright, i was just giving those to dragan to make him cry. Sorry dragan forgot you were fat i picture you like a bear in my mind for some reason.

I am a bear! grrrrrrr

Actually thats a great desciprtion, big, broad, lots of strenght and muscle but with a nice winter layer ( decreasing all the time might i add ) to keep me warm!!!!

:eek:

g'em

amazingemmet wrote:

The exercise can be modified to make them easier alright, i was just giving those to dragan to make him cry.

oh thank flip for that. seeings how one of my proudest acheivements this year was actually being able to do unaided dips in the first place I think that might just be a little too advanced for me.

Oh and Dragan is a bear.. but of the 'teddy' kind. I re-iterate, he's a big ol' softie and don't let him try to convince you otherwise

Dragan

amazingemmet wrote:

i was just giving those to dragan to make him cry.

I'm not sure if we as a race of creatures do cry. We eat, sleep for months at a time and torment Fairy Tale characters alright, not sure about the crying though.

Except for Baby Bear , but he's a bi*ch.

amazingemmet

Try a 3x8 of half lever dips and you'll cry winter layer or not

g'em

ah ffs you two. Dragan, you're big and strong. Emmet, you're bendy and strong.

Now stop spamming. I really did want to know about pre-exhaustion...

Dragan

You can always check out www.strenghtcats.com

They have some really decent stuff on different workout types my dear.

amazingemmet

Ok i've been reading up on them and as far as i can see the fall down to idenify which side has an imbalnace do some sets to isolate your stronger side do some sets then do your normal workout and that should force your weak side to catch up. Seems like a good. Dragan me and yuo should have babies, it would be the ultimate being, big, bendy and strong, G'em crack out the chemistry set

Dragan

amazingemmet wrote:

Ok i've been reading up on them and as far as i can see the fall down to idenify which side has an imbalnace do some sets to isolate your stronger side do some sets then do your normal workout and that should force your weak side to catch up. Seems like a good. Dragan me and yuo should have babies, it would be the ultimate being, big, bendy and strong, G'em crack out the chemistry set

If we do some DNA manipulation we can give it G'em's mind, my strenght and muscle and your Mr Fantastic like bendiness.

That would be a serious creature.

(( okay, i will stop the madness now , sorry G'em ))

t-ha

Emmet are you talkin' about L-sit dips, or dips where you bring your legs up behind you and try to get your body parallel to the ground? I can't do the latter type, but I will get there eventually - I consider it the first step to doing press-ups with my feet off of the ground which would kick so much ass.

G'em, I've used (and still use) pre-exhaustion techniques sometimes for higher rep work and it works great. It's not quite the classic pre-exhaustion technique but it works pretty much on the same principles. Also, I don't ditch heavier work altogether - just put it on a different day. To show exactly what I mean here's a quote from my post on the 'getting to know you thread';

t-ha wrote:

Your next workout: 25 x 4 glute/ham raises (5 on left, 5 on right, 5 on left, etc. to 25 total each leg with weight you could normally do 10 of, rest then repeat). Same scheme for leg extensions, then same scheme for bulgarian squats. Sounds easy? It is! (until you get a few reps into the bulgarians and realise - OH CRAP!)

Try that workout on for size - literally for size . The rest times are all strictly 1:30 by the way.

For heavier sets I prefer post-fatigueing to pre-exhaustion (basically it's the same thing but done the other way around) as I don't like my big lifts gettin' interfered with.

For increased definition and seperation you might want to try learning some of the classic BB poses and practising them. Sounds totally NOT hardcore, but maintaining isometric contractions for long periods is demanding and (I've never actually included it in a programme myself before but..) apparently it really brings out the definition in the muscles. Christian Thibedeau thinks so anyway, and he knows his shizzle.

g'em

t-ha wrote:

For increased definition and seperation you might want to try learning some of the classic BB poses and practising them. Sounds totally NOT hardcore, but maintaining isometric contractions for long periods is demanding and (I've never actually included it in a programme myself before but..) apparently it really brings out the definition in the muscles. Christian Thibedeau thinks so anyway, and he knows his shizzle.

Actually it works a treat. Posing between sets increases blood flow to the target area and gives you nice stretch. The result is that you get fantastic full ROM for your next set which will add to your definition. You do however look like a complete poseur-ish twat :rolleyes:

I like the sound of that legworkout you posted, but would be wary of it if it helped you size-wise. While I know I'll never be able to have massive hams/ quads being a girl an' all, I'm actually at the stage where I'd prefer to trim down my legs slightly. I want my upper and lower body to be a little more symmetrical. I'm looking at doing 3 sets of 20 reps on low weight for front and back squats with leg curls and extensions for pre-exhaustion and follow it with lunges with low reps to exhaustion, followed by a general 'collapsing on the ground with jelly for legs' recovery period.

And when you say you put heavier work on a different day do you mean you alternate light/ heavy work week to week or do you retrain teh same muscle group twice in one week?

And as for you two..

Dragan wrote:

If we do some DNA manipulation we can give it G'em's mind, my strenght and muscle and your Mr Fantastic like bendiness.

That would be a serious creature

.. add in my good looks and I think you're onto a winner

amazingemmet

t-ha wrote:

Emmet are you talkin' about L-sit dips, or dips where you bring your legs up behind you and try to get your body parallel to the ground? I can't do the latter type, but I will get there eventually - I consider it the first step to doing press-ups with my feet off of the ground which would kick so much ass.

Sorry gonna be a dick but t-ha your banned from saying L-sit its an americanism that just pisses me off proper name is half lever /rant. If your looking to do planche press ups i've got loads of advice for em

t-ha

g'em wrote:

I like the sound of that legworkout you posted, but would be wary of it if it helped you size-wise. While I know I'll never be able to have massive hams/ quads being a girl an' all, I'm actually at the stage where I'd prefer to trim down my legs slightly.

:eek: Shame on you - but fair enough.

g'em wrote:

I want my upper and lower body to be a little more symmetrical.

Me too - sounds like we've got opposite problems though

g'em wrote:

I'm looking at doing 3 sets of 20 reps on low weight for front and back squats with leg curls and extensions for pre-exhaustion and follow it with lunges with low reps to exhaustion, followed by a general 'collapsing on the ground with jelly for legs' recovery period.

:eek: sounds tough! To be honest, for me that would be a recipe for size but everyone responds differently. Depends what ranges you usually work on too.

g'em wrote:

And when you say you put heavier work on a different day do you mean you alternate light/ heavy work week to week or do you retrain teh same muscle group twice in one week?

I just meant don't forget about the heavy lifts - yeah you could substitute a high volume workout for a heavy one every now and again, or just warm up to a heavy load initially (as if you were going for a 1RM but stopping with a lift at triples weight) and then do your high volume workout.
Just a few heavy lifts during this period can be a good reminder to the body that you still want to retain the ability to lift heavy so you don't lose strength. I used a similar idea when I was cutting and at very low levels of bodyfat, low volume but heavy weights, forces the body to hang to your strength even though you're not using it as much.
If you decide to train different ranges on different days you may well find that you can train muscle-groups more frequently.[/QUOTE]

Emmet, word.
Gimme what you got - I'm hooked on 'em planche press-ups ever since I saw this; http://www.metacafe.com/watch/26525/amazing_breakdance_moves/
Pretty much that whole video is cool, especially with sound. It looks so easy but even thinking about pulling off that move at 1:24 is ridiculous (for example).

Also, critisism of improper labelling of the half lever duly noted (and ignored - j/k)

g'em

t-ha wrote:

:eek: Shame on you - but fair enough.

I know, I know, I feel like a traitor to the cause.. "you want to get.. smaller??? "

:eek: sounds tough! To be honest, for me that would be a recipe for size but everyone responds differently. Depends what ranges you usually work on too.

sorry actually meant lunges with low weight to fatigue. Well I've been working off high set, high weight, low rep workouts for the last while and I'm just starting to find I'm getting the strength but not enough definition. Hence high reps low weights, and with pre-exhaustion thrown in to shake everything up some more.

t-ha wrote:

I just meant don't forget about the heavy lifts - yeah you could substitute a high volume workout for a heavy one every now and again, or just warm up to a heavy load initially (as if you were going for a 1RM but stopping with a lift at triples weight) and then do your high volume workout.

oh hell yeah!! trust me, there's no chance I'll be dropping the high weight workouts any time soon. We're planning a couple of really heavy sesions in a couple of weeks or so- 100kg deadlift was just the beginning.. I'm power hungry now

Transform

Sorry it just seems you are missing the simple point of -

Do more cardio!!!

Ease off on the weights to 3 days per week and do Long slow distance cardio for 40-60mins on all other days.

Oh is it all about the mass baby!!

g'em

Transform wrote:

Sorry it just seems you are missing the simple point of -

Do more cardio!!!

Ease off on the weights to 3 days per week and do Long slow distance cardio for 40-60mins on all other days.

Oh is it all about the mass baby!!

oh trust me, there's plenty of cardio involved 2-3 three high intensity sessions a week plus 2-3 low intensity (but always a minimum of 5 overall). I know you're a big advocate of sticking to low intensity but personally, I like to hit that higher heart-rate pace, and I usually do it as intervals. For me its shown better weight-loss results than sticking purely to low-intensity.

But I want to stick to a four day weights split- it allows me to do nice intensive 1 hour sessions and really focus on each individual body part. Don't worry, I'm totally aware of the kind of work I need to do to get me where I want to be (oh the joys of cardio.. ), but was just wondering about people's personal experience with a training technique I've never used before