[Article] Speeding motorists will soon face 600 privately-operated cameras

Drax

MOTORISTS are to be monitored by Big Brother-style privately operated speed cameras.

The Government last night advertised a tender for consultants to work on the outsourcing of road safety cameras nationwide.

Legislation is almost ready to allow civilians operate more than 600 speed cameras throughout the country.

The move will privatise the operation of the cameras, allowing non-Garda personnel operate the mobile units.

The notice posted on the Government procurement website tender said the Department of Justice was looking for "suitably qualified service providers for the provision of advice and support in relation to the technical, financial, commercial and procurement aspects associated with the outsourcing of the provision and operation of road safety cameras".

The closing date for tenders is March 10.

The departments of Transport and Justice insist that the new operation is not just about revenue collection, but more about saving lives and preventing serious injury on Irish roads.

After legislation is enacted, the next step for the Department of Justice is to look for companies to install and operate the equipment.

It is estimated that at least 50pc of the overall vehicle fleet of 1.85m will pass through a speed check at least once a month when the new system is operating, resulting in 11.1m speed checks in a year.

While the gardai will retain overall control of the system, the privatisation initiative will see many more speed checks and locations pinpointed as speed danger zones or accident blackspots.

With huge volumes of traffic, the gardai accept they do not have the manpower to catch all the country's speeders by intercept methods.

There are 2.5m car licence holders in the country, together with substantial numbers of road users who are driving under licences issued in another country.

Transport Minister Martin Cullen, who will introduce the necessary legislation, said the decision to privatise the speed cameras was a central part of road safety strategy.

The initiative is also designed to release Garda resources to concentrate on their enforcement efforts or other motoring offences, such as drink-driving.

There are 95,000 kilometres of road network in the State and the vast majority of this network is classified as rural road.

The Working Group on Speed Cameras decided that, because of the characteristics of the State's roads network, mobile cameras were the best approach.

The gardai will select sites for the cameras to be positioned and it is intended that 80pc of their operation will be covert, with the remainder overt.

Under the new plans, there will be more speed checks at weekends and between midnight and 3am and also more checks on lorries.

The safety camera units, their operators and a processing system to view images will be operated by the private operators.

The private operators will issue fines and, when payment is not made, will prepare a prosecution file for the Gardai.

Our man in Havana

The safety camera units, their operators and a processing system to view images will be operated by the private operators.

The private operators will issue fines and, when payment is not made, will prepare a prosecution file for the Gardai.

Cue a flood of supreme court challenges.

masterK

The problem with them being privately operated is that they will always be revenue orientated. Private companies exist for one reason, to make money. So instead of seeing speed camera being placed on dangerous back roads they will be spread out along motorways and dual carriageways. Sure they'll probably have 50 alone from Lucan to the M50 and another 50 on the Naas road.
That is of course if it ever happens which where the Irish government is concerned is very doubtful.

trout

It's a well known fact that covert & hidden cameras save lives

trout

... this is likely to be a dismal failure ... multiple hidden cameras on motorways, generating vast amounts of cash for a profit driven enterprise ... it will be like the clampers on a huge scale!!!:mad:

trout

with no SAFETY cameras on unprofitable back roads, no matter how dangerous they are.
.
.
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the reason I have three posts instead of one ... is to simulate what I predict will happen to the placement of the cameras ... we will be swamped with cameras in high traffic areas, with no real consideration for safer driving

Surely the proper answer here is dedicated Traffic Police, whose primary concern is safety of road users. All road users, on all roads.

Lives before Profit!!

Hagar

It will be interesting to see who owns/is the beneficial owner of the company who gets these contracts.
I see a nice little money spinner here for the brown envelope brigade.

trout

What a crock ... the contract is already destined for some FF crony ...I suspect that a range of companies have already been formed to 'tender' for this lucrative & life saving initiative (but mostly lucractive)

We should all hold off on NTR shares, and invest in this new private speed, ... I mean SAFETY camera company ... I believe they also make traffic lights, roundabouts, and the special paints used for cycle paths.

The logical conclusion to this is blacked out urban vigilante style stealth squads belting up & down the motorways in an Opel Manta 400 with no reg plate seeking administering the baseball bat of justice to the hidden cameras ... I will be driving the white van of peace & love to all motorists, gently cleaning the lenses on those cameras that might actually save lives on dangerous roads & junctions

Of course, we are likely to be charged even more road tax & excise duty to support this initiative... even with a private compnay, there will be some admin overhead for the Gardai and the auth-or-it-tays

murphaph

I see an attrocious level of death on the roads. It's acknowledged that a large proportion of that death is caused by innapropriate speed. Once the speed limits are set properly (and many aren't) then I don't see why anyone should have a problem with the cameras.

The camera operator will not be taking a cut of the fines, even in this two-bit country. It'll be like the NCT-company (currently SGS) tenders a price to operate the service and that's it, not a pro-rata basis!

There should be no incentive to sit on motorway overbridges with this set up, as opposed to a Garda who has to get his or her 'quota' for the month in a day! It should in fact be far fairer than current tactics employed by the Gardai.

I'm glad they're going with mobile cameras, fixed ones are quickly known about and can be vandalised.

Hopefully this will free up the Garda Traffic Corp to deal with the nitty gritty of careless/wreckless driving and all the other annoying offences that UK police pull muppets over for.

People in this country simply aren't listenning to the SLOW DOWN message. They don't like authority and never have and it's costing lives. People slowed down when penalty points were announced, we all know that, but it's back to normal now and the only thing that seems to work is a genuine threat of getting caught.

Peace

THats it, I've had enough. If they start putting more checks on streches of road that are 3 lanes and 50kmph... i'm buying a radar detector and i don't give a sh1te about the legality.

masterK

murphaph wrote:

I see an attrocious level of death on the roads. It's acknowledged that a large proportion of that death is caused by innapropriate speed. Once the speed limits are set properly (and many aren't) then I don't see why anyone should have a problem with the cameras.

The camera operator will not be taking a cut of the fines, even in this two-bit country.

I think you'll find everybody is in agreement for the need for cameras, it's their probable location that's the problem.

I wouldn't be so sure about there not being any incentives to the operators on the quantity of fines issued, it may not be in the form of a percentage of every fine but more of a bonus for exceeding a certain quota.

mondeoman

it about time!!!! they done something:)
im sick of been the only car doing 100kmh on the N11.
& 60kmh in Kilmacanoge:o

OMcGovern

Peace wrote:

THats it, I've had enough. If they start putting more checks on streches of road that are 3 lanes and 50kmph... i'm buying a radar detector and i don't give a sh1te about the legality.

I'm buying an anti-radar missile :-)

Anyways, it won't do any good, radar detectors don't detect the laser scopes.

Jumpy

OMcGovern wrote:

I'm buying an anti-radar missile :-)

Anyways, it won't do any good, radar detectors don't detect the laser scopes.

THey will detect the fixed ones though.

Hagar

My car has a built in radar detector. It has little numbers and a needle on it. To make myself invisible to radar all I have to do is make sure the little needle doesn't move beyond the number equal to the last black number in a red circle on a pole that I drive by. It's a great game and I always win. I've never been caught yet. It's even invisible to the Gardai. A Garda even looked into my car once and didn't confiscate it. You may be able to get one fitted to your car if your really lucky.

Snickers Man

Does Newstalk 106 still do its 'Clamper Alert' thingy. Where you can phone in and tell them if you see a clamper van in your neighbourhood so that they broadcast it and then everybody races out and puts a few more shillings in the meter?

They should do the same for these speed camera chappies. In fact all local radio stations should.

Seriously. Think about it. It would be more beneficial than the cameras themselves.

A radio announcer says: "There's a mobile speed camera just beyond the traffic lights on the Long Mile Road where the speed limit drops precipitously to 50kmph. Watch yourselves"

Anybody listening and approaching will be on their guard, the overall traffic will slow down and instead of nabbing one unsuspecting driver, we the people will have influenced a whole road full of drivers to slow down and drive more safely. Even if they are not all listening to the radio show in question, if the general stream of traffic slows down, all normally safe responsible drivers will realise that there is some reason why the rest of the traffic is slowing down and behave accordingly.

The only ones who will take advantage of the space in the fast lane to put their pedal to the metal are the real boy racers and they're the ones that deserve to be caught in the first place.

So we'll have a safer road and less cash for the camera guys.

Over to you Newstalk 106, Liffey FM, southside, FM104 etc etc etc

Peace

Peace wrote:

THats it, I've had enough. If they start putting more checks on streches of road that are 3 lanes and 50kmph... i'm buying a radar detector and i don't give a sh1te about the legality.

Well said. Totally agree.

Anan1

There is a laser jammer available in the US, it's called the M-10 Blinder. It has two sensors which are built into the front grille of the car. When a laser beam strikes it, it sends back the same signal but with a glitch, thus preventing the gun from giving a speed reading. The legality of the unit is questionable (technically it's a remote garage door opener...), but its efficiency is undeniable.

drdre

all these will be out to do is make money and not save lives, most of the accidents happen in the country side not in dublin so the government should do something about it not companies that are money orientated.:mad:

MrPudding

I heard representatives from the garda and the NRA talking about this months ago.

What they said was this:

-There would be no quotas or bonuses. The private operators was be instructed to carry out a certain number of checks on certain roads at certain times. If they did this they would ge paid a set amount regardless of how many people they caught. If they deviated from the instruction they would not get paid.
-The garda and the NRA or NSC or all three (I can't remember) would decide where and when the checks would happen. Apparently locations and times would be worked out based on when accidents and death actually occured.

The upshot of this is, if they do it like this, that there should be a reduction of checks on dual carriage ways and motorways as they have smaller accident rates. There should also be massively increased checks at odd hours.

They specifically made the point that an operator that simply sat on the motorway all day would simply not get paid as it is unlikely he would be sent there.

To me this sounds good. I think the most important part is there can be no quotas or "commission." If it is setup as they have said it will be I think it will actually be a good system.

I am not keen on covert checks. I would prefer blackspots were covered by very overt cameras that were signposted well in advance and painted a nice bright colour. As I have said before, as far as I am concerned a speed camera doing it's job should not catch anyone.

Oh, did anyone cacth the article in the times yesterday about the new system in the north? It is being installed on the Belfast - Newry road first. It consisted of pairs of cameras set 10 miles apart. You are photographed at each set and you average speed is worked out. They say it allows for short burst of speeding to allow overtaking, assuming of course that when not overtaking you are travelling below the limit.

Apparently it is very effective in controlling speed over long distances as people tend to slow down for the cameras and then speed up once they are past. Interesting I thought.

MrP

RobAMerc

trout wrote:

It's a well known fact that covert & hidden cameras save lives

I doubt this is true, I think if you read into what they are doing in the UK it seems that sticking a huge "SPEED CAMERA HERE" sign on speed cameras and putting them in places that have a high number of speed related accidents (bad bends, schools etc) tends to work far better than coppers hiding behind bins etc.

The covert speed cameras are a revenue generator and are generally placed where you are most likely to speed sure, but with least danger, not where inapopriate speed causes serious accidents and death.

IMO the only difference between covert cameras and mugging is that the mugger might say hello

Zoot

The new initiative is all well and good and in principle very laudable - though obviously they should manage and run the complete operation themselves (perhaps with the new proposed “reserve” force)

The only thing is that, as we all know, quotas usually have to be filled - which means that certain easy catch areas are targeted, like places on dual carriageways where speed suddenly goes from 80 to 50, 120 to 80 etc. (I was caught on N4 coming in towards Huston station there over a year ago and the 2 Guards on bikes were constantly kept going - as soon as they put up the radar gun they’d pull in the next car - thankfully neither ticket or points materialised - probably ended up with too much paperwork for themselves)

Again - I don’t really have a problem with this ‘tough obviously it’s not exactly an even distribution of the law (just be extra careful on the last few days of every month).

What really bugs me though is that offenders not resident in Ireland or with foreign plates (incl northerners) seem to get away scot free! This is a more frightening issue as they can drive with impunity and disregard the rules which most of us adhere to.

Also, with large trucks etc. When speed limits were in mph there top speed limit was (supposedly) 50mph! I don’t know what he new limit is but the old one was NEVER policed or enforced and it looks like it still won’t be.

And my newest concern is the number of drivers going around on mobile phones. This looks like it’s still not even being considered for penalty points.

I believe that most road deaths occur late at night/early morning and involve alcohol. THIS is the area that needs addressing and increased policing. It’s very unsocial hours but I believe that if there was a very visible Garda presence in all towns between the hours of 11pm and 3am and patrol cars 'til about 5am it would help greatly reduce the number of causalities on our roads.

murphaph

drdre wrote:

all these will be out to do is make money and not save lives, most of the accidents happen in the country side not in dublin so the government should do something about it not companies that are money orientated.:mad:

Excuse me, but you were arrested for dangerous driving last week. Take responsbility for your own acions before blaming all and sundry. What gives with people? It's your choice to exceed the speed limit, however stupid it may be. It was your choice not to act the b0llix in JFK industrial estate last week but you did, so take some personal responsibility and stop blaming everyone else.

Seth Brundle

trout wrote:

It's a well known fact that covert & hidden cameras save lives

<% if not sarcasm %>
How many lives have been saved by covert cameras?
<% end if %>

Anan1 wrote:

There is a laser jammer available in the US, it's called the M-10 Blinder. It has two sensors which are built into the front grille of the car. When a laser beam strikes it, it sends back the same signal but with a glitch, thus preventing the gun from giving a speed reading. The legality of the unit is questionable (technically it's a remote garage door opener...), but its efficiency is undeniable.

Once it interferes with the implementation of the law, then its illegal. No ifs or buts!


I have no objection to it as long as it is designed to reduce incidents and deaths. To do this though will require more speedtraps at night and also on the less busy roads (non dual carriageway/motorway).
Whatever system is chosen it will have to be seen to be working to be effective. I honestly don't believe that covert cameras are as effective as they don't have an immediate effect on driver behaviour. If the traps were visible and common they would have a far greater impact on driver behaviour.

TheMonster

Build in some type of system that the lower the quality of the road and the greater speed the the higher the fine. Something will have to be done to incentivise them to patrol the lesser roads.

It should also be run on a flat fee rather than the company makes profits per person caught.

Boggle

Wonder who's job it'll be to monitor calibration and stuff? The gardai are currentlty prima facia (or something like that) but that could not be extended to a private company...

Also, the very prospect of giving a private company the remit to effectively police and take away your licence is going to be challenged repeatedly...

MrPudding

TheMonster wrote:

Something will have to be done to incentivise them to patrol the lesser roads.

It's called getting paid.

MrP

TheMonster

MrPudding wrote:

It's called getting paid.

MrP

My point is that on topof getting paid that the lesser roads need to be a priority and if that includes bonuses or being paid more for monitoring the lesser roads then so be it.

blastman

I think this is great!! I'll still be able to overtake heavy trucks on blind bends and pensioners driving Micras coming to the brow of a hill as long as I don't I don't go over the speed limit. Fantastic!

Thta was sarcasm, by the way, apparently a few people don't recognise it.

MrPudding

TheMonster wrote:

My point is that on topof getting paid that the lesser roads need to be a priority and if that includes bonuses or being paid more for monitoring the lesser roads then so be it.

If you read my first post in this thread you will see I explained how this is *supposed* to work.

The operators will be told when and where to run speed checks. They will only be paid for checks carried out during the times and at the locations they were told.

If they actually implement this scheme there will be no need for bonuses. It is quite simple, they will be given a list of places to go and times to go there. If they do it they get paid. If they decide to go and spend the day on the Lucan bypass they will not get paid (unless of course there work order tells them to.)

To me this seems like a good system. Perhaps too good to actually be implemented. Only time will tell.

MrP

Automan

MrPudding wrote:

Oh, did anyone cacth the article in the times yesterday about the new system in the north? It is being installed on the Belfast - Newry road first. It consisted of pairs of cameras set 10 miles apart. You are photographed at each set and you average speed is worked out. They say it allows for short burst of speeding to allow overtaking, assuming of course that when not overtaking you are travelling below the limit.

Apparently it is very effective in controlling speed over long distances as people tend to slow down for the cameras and then speed up once they are past. Interesting I thought.

MrP

I think this is the new cameras there using up the north:

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/specs.htm

Also this looks interesting:

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/laserpropark.htm

Our man in Havana

Automan wrote:

Also this looks interesting:

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/laserpropark.htm

LOL! I like it. I wonder if the gardai will belive you that its just an innocent parking sensor?

mmenarry

Personally, I see absolutely no problem in the camera operators being paid bonuses. Provided of course, that the bonuses are paid on the number of reduced fatalities/serious injuries on the roads.

It would be interesting to see how many private operators would be interested in tendering if payment was based on that!

M.

masterK

mmenarry wrote:

Personally, I see absolutely no problem in the camera operators being paid bonuses. Provided of course, that the bonuses are paid on the number of reduced fatalities/serious injuries on the roads.

That's actually an excellent idea, it'll never happen though.

Mr Pudding wrote:

I heard representatives from the garda and the NRA talking about this months ago.

What they said was this:

-There would be no quotas or bonuses. The private operators was be instructed to carry out a certain number of checks on certain roads at certain times. If they did this they would ge paid a set amount regardless of how many people they caught. If they deviated from the instruction they would not get paid.
-The garda and the NRA or NSC or all three (I can't remember) would decide where and when the checks would happen. Apparently locations and times would be worked out based on when accidents and death actually occured.

In theory that sounds great but I would be highly skeptical of it in reality, to prove that they are doing their job the private company would have to show results, now sitting on a quite but dangerour country back road all day with a speed gun may save some lives but the number of speeding fines issued would minimal and therefore difficult for a company to demonstrate results.

Let's take an example, most of the speed cameras are moved off motorways and dual carriageways to quiet but dangerous rural roads, at the end of the year the number of speeding fines would most likely be down so therefore it will appear that there has been a decline in the effort made to catch speeding motorists. It wouldn't be true and lives would be saved but the Government will see revenue down and wonder what's going on.

Hagar

Isn't that exactly the dilemma the Gardai face now?

If they patrol an area and force drivers to observe the law then they have eliminated speeding and there are no offenders to catch but since it can't be measured it seems as if they are sitting around scratching their arses

On the other hand if they do catch a lot of speeding mototists there is an outcry and they are branded as money-grabbers fleeceing the public.

It's a lose/lose situation for the Gardai and it will be exactly the same for a private firm if they do their job correctly.

Seth Brundle

Hagar wrote:

Isn't that exactly the dilemma the Gardai face now?

I said it before - the gardai are sent out by their superiors to build statistics. If the stats for a particular area are low then they risk losing a man from that area.

trout

Q1 : Why do people speed ?

Q2 : Are speed limits generally sensible ?

I'm not being a smartass here (unlike my posts above) ... I'm genuinely asking why people speed ?

As for question 2 ... I think we can all rhyme off examples of speeds limits on major roads being way too slow, while some limits on minor roads are not low enough.

In more advanced places, there are dedicated Traffic police, who patrol major and mintor routes, enforcing traffic laws including speed limits. These same states have electronic signs which advise of speed limits, and these limits can vary depending on weather conditions, road conditions, local events etc. etc.
I'm thinking here of California, and L.A. with very high density of cars to people.

Surely this is a better way of enforcing road safety than giving it to private enterprise?

Do NTR have the motorists best interest at heart ? No, because they are driven by profit. Will a private speed camera operator be driven by profit ... the answer must be "yes ... if they want to stay in business".
(shudder ... what if NTR tender for this contract:eek: )

I really believe privatising speed cameras is naive short term thinking, and while it may not save enough lives, there will certainly be money changing hands.

When the next round of politicians come canvassing at my door ... I'll ask their views on privatising speed cameras versus bolstering a dedicated Garda Traffic core. It would be interesting to see how sophisticated the thinking will become.

I'm all for safety ... really ... I will obey all sensible speed limits and drive safely with respect for conditions, other road users, and myself ... I cannot approve of private operators enforcing public safety on our roads.

KerranJast

MrPudding wrote:

I heard representatives from the garda and the NRA talking about this months ago.

What they said was this:

-There would be no quotas or bonuses. The private operators was be instructed to carry out a certain number of checks on certain roads at certain times. If they did this they would ge paid a set amount regardless of how many people they caught. If they deviated from the instruction they would not get paid.
-The garda and the NRA or NSC or all three (I can't remember) would decide where and when the checks would happen. Apparently locations and times would be worked out based on when accidents and death actually occured.

The upshot of this is, if they do it like this, that there should be a reduction of checks on dual carriage ways and motorways as they have smaller accident rates. There should also be massively increased checks at odd hours.

They specifically made the point that an operator that simply sat on the motorway all day would simply not get paid as it is unlikely he would be sent there.

To me this sounds good. I think the most important part is there can be no quotas or "commission." If it is setup as they have said it will be I think it will actually be a good system.

I am not keen on covert checks. I would prefer blackspots were covered by very overt cameras that were signposted well in advance and painted a nice bright colour. As I have said before, as far as I am concerned a speed camera doing it's job should not catch anyone.

Oh, did anyone cacth the article in the times yesterday about the new system in the north? It is being installed on the Belfast - Newry road first. It consisted of pairs of cameras set 10 miles apart. You are photographed at each set and you average speed is worked out. They say it allows for short burst of speeding to allow overtaking, assuming of course that when not overtaking you are travelling below the limit.

Apparently it is very effective in controlling speed over long distances as people tend to slow down for the cameras and then speed up once they are past. Interesting I thought.

MrP

That system is being piloted in Scotland too and has been running very effectively in France for years. It'll will cost more to run though than is raised in fines but it will be saving lives. It means you won't be stung for breaking the limit when overtaking, only if you've been breaking the limit for most of your trip between the cameras. It means people will realise theres no point in speeding because you'll be caught at the end of the road. The Govt are considering sticking them on the big national roads and motorways to reduce the number of idiots doing 80mph plus those roads, rather than single fixed cams that speeders will twig how to beat as the OP mentioned.

Hagar

The French use regular speed cams on the motorways as well as the system detailed above. But they publish they whereabouts of the cameras so their intent is clearly to control speeding not increase revenue. Would it be the same in Ireland I wonder?

Seth Brundle

The SPECS system to be brought to NI will not have any effect on drivers with a non-UK licence.

The French seemingly don't have something like the SPECS but evaluate speeding based on the time on the autoroute ticket. However, after being in France 3 times over the last 4 years I have never been spoken to about speeding - in one instance doing ~100km at an average of about 200kmph

MrPudding

masterK wrote:

That's actually an excellent idea, it'll never happen though.

Hmmm, I am quite sceptical myself but I live in hope.

masterK wrote:

In theory that sounds great but I would be highly skeptical of it in reality, to prove that they are doing their job the private company would have to show results, now sitting on a quite but dangerour country back road all day with a speed gun may save some lives but the number of speeding fines issued would minimal and therefore difficult for a company to demonstrate results.

I don't know that this is true. My understanding is that they will be judged on the number of checks carried out not the number of speeding detections. I am not sure of the technical workings of the speed detectors but I presume they have the ability to log the number of times the trigger is pulled.

masterK wrote:

Let's take an example, most of the speed cameras are moved off motorways and dual carriageways to quiet but dangerous rural roads, at the end of the year the number of speeding fines would most likely be down so therefore it will appear that there has been a decline in the effort made to catch speeding motorists. It wouldn't be true and lives would be saved but the Government will see revenue down and wonder what's going on.

We need to move away from the concept of revenue generated as the means to judge whether or not the checks are happening. You seem to be caught up with the idea that the success of the scheme will be based on the amount of revenue generated. When they were talking about it on the radio they made it quite clear that this was not going to be the case. Of course time will tell whether or not this is actually the case.

We can only hope that the gov starts looking at road death stats and not speeding revenue.

MrP

Seth Brundle

MrPudding wrote:

We can only hope that the gov starts looking at road death stats and not speeding revenue.

I believe that the government have promised that it will be structured towards saving lives rather than boosting finances. However, this comes from the smae government that promised 2000 extra gardai, to reduce hospital waiting lists...

sweeper4

masterK wrote:

In theory that sounds great but I would be highly skeptical of it in reality, to prove that they are doing their job the private company would have to show results, now sitting on a quite but dangerour country back road all day with a speed gun may save some lives but the number of speeding fines issued would minimal and therefore difficult for a company to demonstrate results.

Let's take an example, most of the speed cameras are moved off motorways and dual carriageways to quiet but dangerous rural roads, at the end of the year the number of speeding fines would most likely be down so therefore it will appear that there has been a decline in the effort made to catch speeding motorists. It wouldn't be true and lives would be saved but the Government will see revenue down and wonder what's going on.

While the aim seems to be to place these mobile cameras at dangerous/high accident spots and the NRA and Gardai MAY be genuine in identifying these locations to the operators - it is not likely to end up like that. You cannot place a mobile manual speed camera/detector on many dangerous rural roads. It is likely it will be deployed on a straight safe stretch in the vicinity of the area, which will still lead to claims of "shooting fish". Of course, the threat of the possibility of a speed camera being around every corner may have the effect of slowing people down.
Visible fixed cameras on those dangerous stretches, or ideally a traffic corps that actually drives with the flow of traffic would have more effect in my opinion. Mobile manual cameras are constrained to be able to perform the function I think most people have in mind.

Seth Brundle

sweeper4 wrote:

ideally a traffic corps that actually drives with the flow of traffic would have more effect in my opinion. Mobile manual cameras are constrained to be able to perform the function I think most people have in mind.

A marked car driving along in traffic will not be seen by as many other drivers compared to it driving against the flow.

sweeper4

kbannon wrote:

A marked car driving along in traffic will not be seen by as many other drivers compared to it driving against the flow.

The idea was not that it would be a passive detterent - rather performing traffic duties and enforcing all traffic laws on it's travels instead of sitting static on a safe straight stretch of road waiting for a target exceeding the speed limit.

Not sure what you mean anyway, if it is driving in traffic is it not also driving against the flow of those cars travelling in the opposite direction?

Seth Brundle

Yes but I pictured that you meant the marked car driving to say cork on a friday evening in busy traffic. My point was that it would be better served driving back towards Dublin when the majority of traffic was heading towards Cork, thereby the car was seen by more drivers.

parsi

Hagar wrote:

The French use regular speed cams on the motorways as well as the system detailed above. But they publish they whereabouts of the cameras so their intent is clearly to control speeding not increase revenue. Would it be the same in Ireland I wonder?

I like the French system with their pre-advertised fixed radars. And they are always at dangerous spots. Of course they still have the mobile patrols...

sweeper4

kbannon wrote:

Yes but I pictured that you meant the marked car driving to say cork on a friday evening in busy traffic. My point was that it would be better served driving back towards Dublin when the majority of traffic was heading towards Cork, thereby the car was seen by more drivers.

Ah, point taken. No, my idea was more that they would patrol their own area, enforcing all traffic laws while on duty.

jack_christie

trout wrote:

It's a well known fact that covert & hidden cameras save lives

Speed cameras 'may cause accidents'
"Fresh doubts over the value of speed cameras were raised today after a surge in accidents at sites where they are installed.

Official papers show that the number of crashes rose instead of fell at 70 sites in London."

JC

trout

jack_christie wrote:

Speed cameras 'may cause accidents'
"Fresh doubts over the value of speed cameras were raised today after a surge in accidents at sites where they are installed.

Official papers show that the number of crashes rose instead of fell at 70 sites in London."

JC

dude ... I was being a smart-ass ... I should have used a smilie ... if you read my subsequent posts you'll see my position on speed cameras is similar to yours ... I'm all for safety, and not for profiteering

I agree with you ... I can see how speed cameras can cause accidents ... we've all seen people jam on the brakes when they spot a camera ... happens on the M50 on a daily basis.

The more I read of this thread, the more I believe the answer to road safety is a dedicated Garda Traffic Corps ... patrolling up & down major & minor routes. Cameras may have a part to play in this, I'm thinking of cameras at major junctions & bottlenecks, which would identify private cars in bus lanes, or drivers abusing filter lanes, well known black spots (Blakes Corner, main Sword roundabout ??) ... but I cannot accept that private organisations will ever see road users as anything other than a source of revenue.

MrPudding

trout wrote:

... but I cannot accept that private organisations will ever see road users as anything other than a source of revenue.

I there is no connection between the number of people caught and the amount that the company gets paid there is no issue with revenue generation. Can you not see that?

We know know how the system is going to work until we get more information. It may well turn out that there is quotas and bonuses. If there is i think there will be uproar.

I hope that the government has realised just how big a problem this will be and actually implement this scheme as they said they would. If they do there will be no revenue generation for the oprators. Read my first post on this thread. In it I explain how the NRA & Garda said the operators would operate. If they follow through on this I think it will be an OK system that should not be open to abuse.

With regards to hidden fixed cameras, I don't like them. There should be bright orange cameras at accident blackspots and other areas where there is high level of drivers fcuking arround. These cameras should be signposted well in advance so there is no surprise. This should force driver to take it easy in thoses areas. I would expect the cameras would not make much money and this is exactly how I think it should be.

MrP