no way out was awesome

triple h · 20-02-2006 8:42pm #1

i am not a big smack down fan ( i am more of a raw fan) and when it came to watching pay per views i never looked foward to S D PPV's. but last night's no way out was fantastic. it was the best PPV for some time. i really enjoyed it.

yak_kadafi · 20-02-2006 8:53pm

although i dont think it was fantastic it was a good WWE ppv......
it was good to see Fit finley have a match and great to see batista back....
the matches were so so........some good ones and other as usual **** ones.......
all in all it was a decent ppv

J.R.HARTLEY · 20-02-2006 8:58pm

i enjoyed it ,
**spoiler***

except i'm left stumped as to whats next with rey vs orton, the way they left it rey surely will get a rematch for his shot

dohboy · 20-02-2006 9:29pm

i was watching it live last night and surfing surfing online the same time. i went onto to wikipedia, and all the results were up there already! is this commonplace on wikipedia? couldn't tell you how long they had been up there for, but all the wrestlers biogs had been updated to include what happened in No Way Out.

Mr.Nice Guy · 20-02-2006 9:33pm

I liked No Way Out alot. I was engrossed in all the matches but particularly the last two.

I hope Rey still finds a way to get his WM shot. I remember in 2002, Angle won Triple H's main event shot at No Way Out but Triple H won it back on Smackdown I think. Hopefully they will do something similar this year or else make it a triple threat for the belt.

Angle and Taker's match had me gripped and for a minute I thought Taker would tap. The ending seemed a bit silly to me but it was a good contest.

Overall I would say it's the best Smackdown PPV since No Way out in 2004 when Eddie beat Brock.

the sunbabe wan · 20-02-2006 9:44pm

WHAT THE FAWK :mad: :mad: ok i have no way out taped... and i'm ready to watch, but curiousity got the better of me:o seriously... what was the fawking point in letting rey win the royal rumble???? surely there has to some action done..... surely the wwe have been listening to the fans and the support that they have been giving them.... come on like.

anyway, what on earth... batista back from injury soo soon???? :eek: alright if he's a 100% then that it's bloody awesome

Terry · 20-02-2006 9:55pm

i can't believe they are still milking that eddie thing. it's disgusting and even worse that his family are going along with it.
other than that it was fairly enjoyable. i thought finlay put in the best performance of the night (with his first appearance) and the angle/taker match was one for the ages (except for the finish).

the sunbabe wan · 20-02-2006 9:58pm

CAN SOME one explain to me how batista can come back from a torn tricep tendon so quickly or is some thing i should watch to have a better understanding of what he's talking about..

the sunbabe wan · 20-02-2006 11:13pm

i watched the match between rey and orton, great match, lousy ending..... poor rey:(

moongoose · 20-02-2006 11:14pm

batista was only making an appearance ala RVD at one night stand last summer. it's to keep him in peoples minds so when he comes back people will hope back on board with him as opposed to having him return cold or having to do some big build up with no main ppv to aid it ala HHH at rumble a few years back.

the sunbabe wan · 20-02-2006 11:30pm

moongoose wrote:

batista was only making an appearance ala RVD at one night stand last summer. it's to keep him in peoples minds so when he comes back people will hope back on board with him as opposed to having him return cold or having to do some big build up with no main ppv to aid it ala HHH at rumble a few years back.

yeah i just watched his appearence.... when i saw it on wwe.com, i straight away thought he would be back sooner than every body thought.... great to see him back.... hubba hubba that haircut does wonders

btw undertaker vs angle what a match:D

J.R.HARTLEY · 20-02-2006 11:31pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I liked No Way Out alot. I was engrossed in all the matches but particularly the last two.

I hope Rey still finds a way to get his WM shot. I remember in 2002, Angle won Triple H's main event shot at No Way Out but Triple H won it back on Smackdown I think. Hopefully they will do something similar this year or else make it a triple threat for the belt.

Angle and Taker's match had me gripped and for a minute I thought Taker would tap. The ending seemed a bit silly to me but it was a good contest.

Overall I would say it's the best Smackdown PPV since No Way out in 2004 when Eddie beat Brock.

i reckon he might get it back on saturday nights main event.

the sunbabe wan · 20-02-2006 11:48pm

oh my god :eek: the kurt angle vs taker match has every thing... wow

Terry · 21-02-2006 2:06am

the sunbabe wan wrote:

i watched the match between rey and orton, great match, lousy ending..... poor rey:(

you really thought it was good?
all i saw was orton pick up rey, rey wriggle out, orton knock rey to the ground, repeated over and over.

littleninja · 21-02-2006 12:40pm

The Mysterio/Orton matchup was a bit disappointing, but the Undertaker/Angle match was really good.. obviously apart from the ending, that was silly tbh.

gimmick · 21-02-2006 4:45pm

Well, just watched it. Good PPV.

random thoughts

I wish the cruiserweights would be given some proper time. Foe the first time in a while they have a good number of faces and heels, 2 tag teams, and a very good champion. I hope at Mania we see a 1 on 1 for the title, but it will probably be another piece of crap like they have been putting together for God knows how long. That said, I enjoyed this CW match, but this format of match is far to scatty to have any lasting effects.

I also liked JBL vs Lashley, though the ending was a bit ****. I really cant see what either of these guys are going to be doing by Wrestlemania.

Tag match was ok. I would prefer if they kept the rematch to Mania, but will probably happen at SME or a regular SD, leaving all these people without a Wrestlemania match.

Batistas return had me excited. I was seeing a Batista Vs Orton Mania match, after Batista helped Rey defeat Orton. Instead this was a filler.

Benoit Vs Booker T. Why oh why was this not held to Mania? it was a quality match, with a great heel/face psychology to it. If they could have dragged this feud out til Mania, with Booker playing the pussy heel, it would have been sweet. Very good match, was somewhat surprised with Benoits win.

Orton Vs Rey. Good match, poor ending. I hoped Long was going to come in and say he must win fairly etc, and Rey to go on and win from there. I think wwe are going to heel Rey slowly from here.

Angle Vs Taker - I seen them in London last year and the match was 5 star. This was better. As said above, it had everything - spots, chain wrestling, slugging, submission reversals (and how!) and a controversial ending.

Good PPV. Far better than the Rumble and NYR.

TOPDAWG · 22-02-2006 12:15am

gimmick wrote:

Orton Vs Rey. Good match, poor ending. I hoped Long was going to come in and say he must win fairly etc, and Rey to go on and win from there.

Funny actually, i was hoping for the same thing. To be honest maybe a year ago i wanted to see orton in the main event but not now. Not the way he's "earned" it (i mean angle wise, cos i know the guy has talent.)

Im just generally disappointed at the lack of any meaningful feud build ups to mania. In years gone by there were at least month long or even year long build ups (Taker/Kane, Jericho/Hbk, Hbk/Angle etc) but this year nothing (bar Hbk/Mcmahon but i dont know of anyone who wants to see that match.)

Im finding my faith maybe wavering but yet il keep tuning in cos i know there's still gonna be something happen i havent seen before with Taker/Angle being the obvious example.

J.R.HARTLEY · 22-02-2006 4:28pm

TOPDAWG wrote:

Im just generally disappointed at the lack of any meaningful feud build ups to mania. In years gone by there were at least month long or even year long build ups (Taker/Kane, Jericho/Hbk, Hbk/Angle etc) but this year nothing (bar Hbk/Mcmahon but i dont know of anyone who wants to see that match.)

Im finding my faith maybe wavering but yet il keep tuning in cos i know there's still gonna be something happen i havent seen before with Taker/Angle being the obvious example.

bingo you've hit the nail on the head for me. and renenber even back in the scsa or rock days they didn't need to write elabortae storylines every week, they have hhh or rock or austin interfer in each others match and brawl out to the back, things that increased the levels of animosity between the two characters

the sunbabe wan · 22-02-2006 6:59pm

we could reminese about the old days all we want folks, but this is the state that the wwe is in at the moment. i'm interested to see how long more does the wwe think we'll put up with it, and finally become like it was back in the late 1990s- probably 2002....

come on like triple h has been at the main event of wrestlemania since 2000 :eek: can we have some other than triple h or is his ego to big to step aside???

Fozzy · 23-02-2006 1:55am

HHH wasn't in the main event in 2001, when he fought Taker, or 2003 (I think), when he fought Booker

I enjoyed the ppv more than any recent WWE ppv. Really wish they'd get some proper cruiserweight matches on tv.. Booker and Benoit had a very good match, I enjoyed it, but I hope Benoit gets a decent feud going into WM. Regal would be a dream for me

Rey and Randy wasn't brilliant to watch, especially with the outcome hanging over the match. What have we learnt? Dedicating and praying to Eddie gets you nowhere. After the match, Rey came off as a very unsympathetic character in my eyes, as he was not forced to put his title shot on the line, he could have just challenged Randy to a match without anything on the line. And aswell, Randy won in a way that befitted the guy Rey has been dedicating things to left, right and centre. It's put him way back now in my book

Taker and Angle have always had great matches together, and it's been a while! When Taker started going for that triangle hold, I got a bit annoyed.. Anyone remember the match they had on SD where it ended with Angle tapping as Taker was pinned, and they had to redo the finish because they messed it up? I kept thinking they were going to do it again. And the way Cole kept pushing that neither man had ever tapped out, when clearly Angle had tapped out to Taker in that very same hold, was a bit stupid. Still, they pulled the match off well and I really enjoyed it. Except for that ending!

J.R.HARTLEY · 23-02-2006 4:45pm

the sunbabe wan wrote:

we could reminese about the old days all we want folks, but this is the state that the wwe is in at the moment.

Our point sunbabe, is they delivered a quality product for x amount of years(which included the whole build up) now their product doesn't seem to be of the same standard, it's not so much reminicising as it is being annoyed that the effort isn't being made, i can't understand how the company has gotten so lethargic in actually entertaining people. it's world wrestling entertainment but wrestlemania doesn't look at the moment like it's going to be entertaining. a couple of matches with no motivation orton vs abgle , why? HHH Vs Cena Why?
you know what i mean, it's like at least stone cold vs HHH feud was cause "he knocked him down" or something, as it stands a month and a week from mania the royal rumble winner is out of the mania picture!!???!!

fozzy wrote:

HHH wasn't in the main event in 2001, when he fought Taker, or 2003 (I think), when he fought Booker

correct, the booker fight was second last, some would argue it was for the WHC so it was a main event but it was really second billing to angle v brock

Mr.Nice Guy · 23-02-2006 5:01pm

Fozzy wrote:

HHH wasn't in the main event in 2001, when he fought Taker, or 2003 (I think), when he fought Booker

The match with Booker counts as a main event as it was a Raw main event in the same way that Orton talked about Eddie main eventing WM20 with Angle. Triple H's record:

WM18 - Main event match with Y2J for Undisputed title

WM19 - Main event match with Booker T for World Title

WM20 - Main event match with HBK and Benoit for World Title

WM21 - Main event match with Batista for World Title

WM22 - Main event match with Cena for WWE title

No one since Hogan has done this. To say it's politics would be an understatement!

the sunbabe wan · 23-02-2006 6:42pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The match with Booker counts as a main event as it was a Raw main event in the same way that Orton talked about Eddie main eventing WM20 with Angle. Triple H's record:

WM18 - Main event match with Y2J for Undisputed title

WM19 - Main event match with Booker T for World Title

WM20 - Main event match with HBK and Benoit for World Title

WM21 - Main event match with Batista for World Title

WM22 - Main event match with Cena for WWE title

No one since Hogan has done this. To say it's politics would be an understatement!

he was in the main event for wm 17 and 16 as well.. 17 was against the undertaker, although he did lose..... and it was the rock at wm 16... i think

Wacker · 23-02-2006 7:23pm

Fozzy wrote:

HHH wasn't in the main event in 2001, when he fought Taker, or 2003 (I think), when he fought Booker

I enjoyed the ppv more than any recent WWE ppv. Really wish they'd get some proper cruiserweight matches on tv.. Booker and Benoit had a very good match, I enjoyed it, but I hope Benoit gets a decent feud going into WM. Regal would be a dream for me

Rey and Randy wasn't brilliant to watch, especially with the outcome hanging over the match. What have we learnt? Dedicating and praying to Eddie gets you nowhere. After the match, Rey came off as a very unsympathetic character in my eyes, as he was not forced to put his title shot on the line, he could have just challenged Randy to a match without anything on the line. And aswell, Randy won in a way that befitted the guy Rey has been dedicating things to left, right and centre. It's put him way back now in my book

Taker and Angle have always had great matches together, and it's been a while! When Taker started going for that triangle hold, I got a bit annoyed.. Anyone remember the match they had on SD where it ended with Angle tapping as Taker was pinned, and they had to redo the finish because they messed it up? I kept thinking they were going to do it again. And the way Cole kept pushing that neither man had ever tapped out, when clearly Angle had tapped out to Taker in that very same hold, was a bit stupid. Still, they pulled the match off well and I really enjoyed it. Except for that ending!

I sure do, I was there live!

Wacker · 23-02-2006 7:26pm

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

Our point sunbabe, is they delivered a quality product for x amount of years(which included the whole build up) now their product doesn't seem to be of the same standard, it's not so much reminicising as it is being annoyed that the effort isn't being made, i can't understand how the company has gotten so lethargic in actually entertaining people. it's world wrestling entertainment but wrestlemania doesn't look at the moment like it's going to be entertaining. a couple of matches with no motivation orton vs abgle , why? HHH Vs Cena Why?
you know what i mean, it's like at least stone cold vs HHH feud was cause "he knocked him down" or something, as it stands a month and a week from mania the royal rumble winner is out of the mania picture!!???!!

correct, the booker fight was second last, some would argue it was for the WHC so it was a main event but it was really second billing to angle v brock

It was actually the fourth last to be precise. It was followed by Vince Vs Hogan, then Autin Vs the Rock, then Angle Vs Lesnar.

I consider Austin Vs the Rock as the RAW main event for WM 19, as it was the last RAW match on the card.

Mr.Nice Guy · 23-02-2006 7:56pm

the sunbabe wan wrote:

he was in the main event for wm 17 and 16 as well.. 17 was against the undertaker, although he did lose..... and it was the rock at wm 16... i think

He wasn't in the main event for WM17 as that year it was Rock vs Austin for the WWE title. That was the last time he fought at WM in a match that wasn't for a belt.

That's truly shocking.

the sunbabe wan · 23-02-2006 8:00pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

He wasn't in the main event for WM17 as that year it was Rock vs Austin for the WWE title. That was the last time he fought at WM in a match that wasn't for a belt.

That's truly shocking.

:eek: IT IS, who did he piss off that year????

alright bar WM17 he has been in every other WM main event since the start of the new century.... now he is the game and he is a brilliant wrestler, when he's in the mood....

Wacker · 23-02-2006 8:55pm

I'm actually currently watching the Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle match on You Tube. Great match, and another thing I am noticing is the fantastic commentary. I always thought Taz was fantastic, but Cole has improved vastly too.

yak_kadafi · 23-02-2006 10:30pm

Wacker wrote:

I'm actually currently watching the Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle match on You Tube. Great match, and another thing I am noticing is the fantastic commentary. I always thought Taz was fantastic, but Cole has improved vastly too.

damn could i have the link for it...i loved the match...and wanna watch it again and again!!!!!

Wacker · 23-02-2006 10:57pm

yak_kadafi wrote:

damn could i have the link for it...i loved the match...and wanna watch it again and again!!!!!

They don't like us linking copyrighted material 'round these parts. Check your PMs!

J.R.HARTLEY · 24-02-2006 7:56pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

WM18 - Main event match with Y2J for Undisputed title

WM19 - Main event match with Booker T for World Title

WM20 - Main event match with HBK and Benoit for World Title

WM21 - Main event match with Batista for World Title

WM22 - Main event match with Cena for WWE title

to look at it objectively
WM 18 he was the hottest face around for that time coming off the back of his injury,and duly dropped the title to hogan
wm 19 for semantics sake was not the main event, it was not top billing, it may have been a title fight but it was not the main event, anyway it was boring it was just a way to have a title fight i think.
wm 20 he brought the belt in to drop it to benoit, he was best choice to fight benoit, they put on a great match
wm 21 he brought the belt in to drop it to batista,
i know he's been in all the fights, but thats more due in the last few years to a lack decent stars

Mr.Nice Guy · 24-02-2006 8:28pm

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

to look at it objectively
WM 18 he was the hottest face around for that time coming off the back of his injury,and duly dropped the title to hogan

I'll agree he earned that match.

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

wm 19 for semantics sake was not the main event, it was not top billing, it may have been a title fight but it was not the main event,

For semantic's sake, IT WAS! If you say it was not then you must also conclude that Guerrero never main evented a Wrestlemania either, however WWE has made it pretty clear that he has!

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

anyway it was boring it was just a way to have a title fight i think.

He should have dropped the belt to Booker in my view. Booker was well popular at the time.

J.R. HARTLEY wrote:

wm 20 he brought the belt in to drop it to benoit, he was best choice to fight benoit, they put on a great match

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

WM 21 he brought the belt in to drop it to batista

Notice the pattern of 'he brought the belt in'? You seem to believe that's out of a desire to put people over when most of us I'm sure are aware that the real reason he is 'bringing the belt in' is because he wants to beat Flair's record of title wins!

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

i know he's been in all the fights, but thats more due in the last few years to a lack decent stars

Bullsh*t. Edge was a star and was bringing in ratings and putting on great matches and he made him drop the strap, much to the anger of many backstage.

He doesn't care about the business as much as you think.

gimmick · 25-02-2006 7:59pm

HHH bashing is so boring, too easy, and generally way off the mark.

Over the last 5-6 years, HHH has been the hottest talent the wwe has had. Sure there was Austin and Rock, but where are they now? HHH, like or loathe him, lives and breathes the business, and as far as Im concerned 99% of what he does for the business is right. He jobs when the needs be, he carries the belt when the needs be, generally putting over someone new.

Now I know people will say, innaccurately, that HHH only puts over his friends? I think thats nonsense. HHH, by his own admission, doesnt have too may friends backstage, as he tends to at least try not mix business and pleasure. We'll not go down the line of the CLIQUE, as we all the know who the real loser was there. I know they will talk about Batista etc and HHH dropping the title to him. Well perhaps it was felt that big Daves work ethic, charisma etc that he earned to get to the top, and did so in a great storyline to boot. Arguably the same for Orton, where HHH as champion seemed to do everything in his power to put him over, but weak creative and an unprepared Orton made that fail.

The match with Booker counts as a main event as it was a Raw main event in the same way that Orton talked about Eddie main eventing WM20 with Angle. Triple H's record:

WM18 - Main event match with Y2J for Undisputed title

WM19 - Main event match with Booker T for World Title

WM20 - Main event match with HBK and Benoit for World Title

WM21 - Main event match with Batista for World Title

WM22 - Main event match with Cena for WWE title

So what? What is your point here? As I have said above he is the hottest thing in the business for years now. You are moaning about the above, yet you have not offered any decent alternatives. Sure he was due to drop the belt to Booker, but Booker just wasnt ready to carry the company as top face at the time. Booker is not a good face, and had HHH dropped to him, he would have taken it back at Backlash, as Bookers reign would have been horrible. (in my opinion).

As for Mania 20, well offer an alternative. He was top heel, in the middle of one of the best feuds in memory, and Benoit was thrown into the mix as well? Benoit was put over by the 2 boys in a huge way, and went on to have a decent run as champion, albeit a tad too short. The alternative was for him to stay on SD, and face Guerrero, which would have been a great match, however, smarks would have been bitching then that Eddies title reign was too short, or had Eddie won, that Benoits push was for nowt. At this time, the only other big heel out there was Batista, and Show (who was possibly on SD at the time). Plus Kane, who was on a huge heel roll at the time, was involved elsewhere with Taker. So HHH in that main event was vital.

WM 21, again, offer an alternative. Had the title match been Cena and JBL, people would be whinging, had it been the original plan of Orton and HHH, people would be whinging. As afr as I can see, in what was a piss poor year for WWE, that was the best possible main event. Who else was there?

And why is it HHH fault that he will be facing Cena at Mania for the strap? WWE are doing everything they possibly can to get Cena over, and a HHH feud will do just nicely. Its hardly HHHs fault that they had Cena drop the belt to Edge in order garner more popularity for him? Edge was merely used as a tool to get Cena back over in time to feud with Trips.

No one since Hogan has done this. To say it's politics would be an understatement

Not only is it not an understatement, it is, IMO, un true. Sure HHH is heavily involved in storylines etc. However, there has yet to be any solid evidence that he has held anyone back, and even if he has, and thats a big if, who could have stood up to the plate and done a better job?

Notice the pattern of 'he brought the belt in'? You seem to believe that's out of a desire to put people over when most of us I'm sure are aware that the real reason he is 'bringing the belt in' is because he wants to beat Flair's record of title wins!

Again, who would have done a better job of getting these people over? Not to mention the fact that even if HHH does surpass Flairs record, its a hollow accolade, as Flair carried a business/company in the 80s with extremely long entertaining title reigns, and was at a time long before the word 'entertainment' entered the wrestling lexicon. What HHHs longest reign been? Seven months? Id hazard very few of Flairs reigns were shorter than that (wwe run excluded).

Edge was a star and was bringing in ratings and putting on great matches and he made him drop the strap, much to the anger of many backstage.

This is a new one on me. And I have said what I think about it above. Do you have a link for this?

If Edge were champion now, who would he face going to Mania? What top drawer face is there for him at the moment? No one IMO, as the wwe have invested all their time on Raw to get Cena as over as Austin (something which is very unlikely to ever happen.). It would have probably been better to have Edge use his MITB at Mania, but for reasons above this was not to be. I cant see HHHs role in that.

Mr.Nice Guy · 25-02-2006 9:27pm

gimmick wrote:

Over the last 5-6 years, HHH has been the hottest talent the wwe has had.

Bullsh*t. Forget about guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, did you?

gimmick wrote:

Now I know people will say, innaccurately, that HHH only puts over his friends? I think thats nonsense.

Then you need to open your eyes. In 2002 he had the World Title handed to him. He dropped it to his best friend Shawn Michaels before winning it back a month later. He then held the title for nine months if I'm not mistaken in a reign that saw a feud with another pal of his, Kevin Nash. In 2004, he set up another feud with Randy Orton, another pal, who became World Champ and in early 2005 he gave himself another title reign by winning the Elimination Chamber match with a final three consisting of his two buddies. He then put his pal Batista over who became World Champ. Bottom line is, if you become his friend you'll probably become a World Champ!

gimmick wrote:

We'll not go down the line of the CLIQUE, as we all the know who the real loser was there.

We'll not go down the line of the Clique because it proves your theories to be wrong. He only lost out due to the MSG incident. Before that him and Michaels were doing whatever they wanted and he had titles. The MSG incident only slowed him down.

gimmick wrote:

So what? What is your point here?

My point is obvious. He is where he is due to politics.

gimmick wrote:

As I have said above he is the hottest thing in the business for years now.

Don't be ridiculous.

gimmick wrote:

You are moaning about the above, yet you have not offered any decent alternatives.

Please don't lie.

gimmick wrote:

Sure he was due to drop the belt to Booker, but Booker just wasnt ready to carry the company as top face at the time.

He wasn't given a chance.

gimmick wrote:

Booker is not a good face, and had HHH dropped to him, he would have taken it back at Backlash, as Bookers reign would have been horrible. (in my opinion).

I disagree. If you want evidence of a horrible one month face reign, see Randy Orton - Triple H's buddy.

gimmick wrote:

As for Mania 20, well offer an alternative.

It's impossible to do so when by that stage Triple H had made himself into the top heel. If he had stepped aside and allowed another heel to develop, which is not something he likes doing (see Edge this year), then things could have been different. Remember he held the belt for close to a year in 2003.

gimmick wrote:

WM 21, again, offer an alternative. Had the title match been Cena and JBL, people would be whinging, had it been the original plan of Orton and HHH, people would be whinging. As afr as I can see, in what was a piss poor year for WWE, that was the best possible main event. Who else was there?

My WM21 would have been vastly different as I would not have placed Batista, Orton or Triple H anywhere near the belt. Most people regard the WM main event as lame compared to WM20 and Batista has had better matches.

gimmick wrote:

And why is it HHH fault that he will be facing Cena at Mania for the strap?

Because he made sure this was the main event. I'll get into that below.

gimmick wrote:

Edge was merely used as a tool to get Cena back over in time to feud with Trips.

Originally, but he proved himself a capable champion.

gimmick wrote:

Not only is it not an understatement, it is, IMO, un true. Sure HHH is heavily involved in storylines etc. However, there has yet to be any solid evidence that he has held anyone back, and even if he has, and thats a big if, who could have stood up to the plate and done a better job?

Nearly everyone in this business claims he holds people back. Observe Christian's opening promo in TNA. There are plenty of people in TNA who allege he holds people down. Look at Edge with his feud against Foley. Look at Booker T at WM19, RVD at Unforgiven 2002, look at the lousy role Y2J had in the WWE. Look at RVD in the recent number 1 contender's match on Raw. I could go on and on and you know it.

Who could have stepped up to the plate you ask? How about the guy who is currently World Champ? Why do you think he was offloaded to Smackdown? To fill in for Batista? See the big picture. Again I'll mention Y2J, couldn't he have carried the company as the top heel? I think so. But it took him THREE YEARS to get a title shot and that was against Cena before he left. Pure politics!

gimmick wrote:

Again, who would have done a better job of getting these people over?

Plenty of people. You even acknowledge that Edge got Cena over in his feud. Do you really think the fans will root for Cena over Triple H? Of course they won't and HHH knows it.

gimmick wrote:

Not to mention the fact that even if HHH does surpass Flairs record, its a hollow accolade, as Flair carried a business/company in the 80s with extremely long entertaining title reigns, and was at a time long before the word 'entertainment' entered the wrestling lexicon. What HHHs longest reign been? Seven months? Id hazard very few of Flairs reigns were shorter than that (wwe run excluded).

Again see the big picture. He is married to the boss' daughter. He can shape out his own destiny. Hence all this 'King of Kings' bullsh*t. He can have the commentators fawning all over him, he can basically make himself out to be a legend if he wants through propaganda.

gimmick wrote:

This is a new one on me. And I have said what I think about it above. Do you have a link for this?

See here. You need to read the insider sites more to see through the spin and illusions.

Credit: PWInsider, Wrestling Observer

– There are some people backstage who are upset at Triple H because he was pushing for Edge to lose the title to Cena at Royal Rumble to line himself up for a title match with Cena at WrestleMania. Many people thought that Edge was doing very well as champion and had managed to get himself over with the fans.

I don't blame them for being upset.

gimmick wrote:

If Edge were champion now, who would he face going to Mania? What top drawer face is there for him at the moment? No one IMO, as the wwe have invested all their time on Raw to get Cena as over as Austin (something which is very unlikely to ever happen.). It would have probably been better to have Edge use his MITB at Mania, but for reasons above this was not to be. I cant see HHHs role in that.

There were options. Keep Angle on Raw and have him face Edge, draft Rey to Raw to face Edge which could have played on their inter-brand rivalry in 2005, there was a different route that could have been taken.

Triple H is all about his ego though. Far better to be put back on his 'throne' I guess and to keep chasing Flair's record of title wins than to do what's right for business...

gimmick · 25-02-2006 10:46pm

These 'insider' sites are a load of bollocks in my opinion. In general, they get one small bit of info which turns out to be right, they then feel they have license to spread the word, true or not.

Re Christian, well perhaps he didnt work hard enough? Maybe he felt everything should havce feel into his lap, like it has in TNA. His opening promo in TNA smacked of a bitter man, like many other wrestlers who have left the wwe, its easy, and at this point boring to hear.

Bullsh*t. Forget about guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, did you?

No I didnt forget! The Rock is no longer a wrestler, Austin is finished, Taker is another person who the IWC love to bitch about for using backstage sway, Michaels is possibly the most political of them all, Hogan, well lets not start on him, and Angle, well great wrestler, great 'actor', I certainly didnt for get him.

We'll not go down the line of the Clique because it proves your theories to be wrong

Another cheap shot. Why bother debating? The whole Clique episode hurt HHH more than any of the rest. Hall and Nash left, HBK was above reproach, so HHH was left jobbing for a year. For me it shows the measure of the man to overcome the adversity to climb to the top, and not go crying to another company and cut a promo against it because they treated you badly.

My point is obvious. He is where he is due to politics.

So you wont even acknowledge that he is a huge talent? Look at all the top men in the company over the last 20 years, none of them have been angels. In fact Id hazard a guess tat most of them are pricks.

Please don't lie.

I disagree. If you want evidence of a horrible one month face reign, see Randy Orton - Triple H's buddy.

Two wrongs dont make a right. Booker didnt win the title and rightly so. He was champiuon in WCW, but we all saw where that went. In fact he joined such alumni as Steiner, Big Show and David Arquette.

It's impossible to do so when by that stage Triple H had made himself into the top heel. If he had stepped aside and allowed another heel to develop, which is not something he likes doing (see Edge this year), then things could have been different.

Again, such as? Some heels have come and gone, and when given an oppurtunity have not been able to handle it. If Im not mistaken Edge was injured at the time, and was a face anyway, i offered the other suggestions originally.

My WM21 would have been vastly different as I would not have placed Batista, Orton or Triple H anywhere near the belt. Most people regard the WM main event as lame compared to WM20 and Batista has had better matches.

What would you have done? I agree that it was a poor main event, but well a well booked storyline. It allowed Batista break through.

Why do you think he was offloaded to Smackdown? To fill in for Batista? See the big picture.

Offloaded? WWE were put in a very bad situation, with the tragic loss of Eddie Guerrero, and Batistas injury at the same time. They needed star power on SD, and thats what Angle brought over. I dont see how that is HHHs fault.

You need to read the insider sites more to see through the spin and illusions.

Maybe youneed to read less of them, and try and look at things in a more balanced, objective fashion. HHH does not automatically = bad.

Again see the big picture............................Keep Angle on Raw and have him face Edge, draft Rey to Raw to face Edge which could have played on their inter-brand rivalry in 2005, there was a different route that could have been taken.

And what happens to SD? Leave it rot, and leave it lose one of its major stars for nothing in return? I just dont see the logic.

Credit: PWInsider, Wrestling Observer

– There are some people backstage who are upset at Triple H because he was pushing for Edge to lose the title to Cena at Royal Rumble to line himself up for a title match with Cena at WrestleMania. Many people thought that Edge was doing very well as champion and had managed to get himself over with the fans.

That is ridiculously vague, and sounds to me it was just thrown together in order to give the HHHaters more to bitch about. If it actually named someone it might have a bit of credence, but as it doesnt, it can be filed under B.

keep chasing Flair's record of title wins than to do what's right for business...

Does anyone have any evidence of this is what he is trying to do, or is it all speculation?

Regarding Jericho etc, I have to dig up an old link, where he said himself, he doesnt want to be top man, as a face or a heel. Cant remember his reasoning, but the fact he isnt 100% devoted to wrestling would be a good indictaor as to why (Fozzy being the reason).

Ill finish this by saying I dont neccesarily believe everything I have posted here, I just think balance is needed with regard to HHH, thats why Im debating this, no other reason.

Mr.Nice Guy · 26-02-2006 1:13am

gimmick wrote:

These 'insider' sites are a load of bollocks in my opinion. In general, they get one small bit of info which turns out to be right, they then feel they have license to spread the word, true or not.

I recall you saying something similar when I reported their information which said Christian was unhappy. You didn't believe it. Then he quit WWE. Then you admitted you had been wrong. Remember that? I find them reliable, particularly PWInsider, and Coach and Trish Stratus have called out Dave Scherer who writes there so obviously WWE are wary of them.

gimmick wrote:

Re Christian, well perhaps he didnt work hard enough? Maybe he felt everything should havce feel into his lap, like it has in TNA. His opening promo in TNA smacked of a bitter man, like many other wrestlers who have left the wwe, its easy, and at this point boring to hear.

Didn't work hard enough? The guy worked very hard. Even Batista stated that in an interview. I recall you being pretty sad to see him go at the time so I think you're contradicting yourself here. I can't be bothered checking the threads from the time.

gimmick wrote:

No I didnt forget! The Rock is no longer a wrestler, Austin is finished, Taker is another person who the IWC love to bitch about for using backstage sway, Michaels is possibly the most political of them all, Hogan, well lets not start on him, and Angle, well great wrestler, great 'actor', I certainly didnt for get him.

You initially said "Over the last 5-6 years, HHH has been the hottest talent the wwe has had". Clearly you were wrong.

gimmick wrote:

Another cheap shot. Why bother debating?

Where was the cheap shot?

gimmick wrote:

The whole Clique episode hurt HHH more than any of the rest. Hall and Nash left, HBK was above reproach, so HHH was left jobbing for a year.

What goes around, comes around. He had enjoyed the perks of being part of the Clique and he got bitten in the ass. Serves him right. Yes he did well to come back but it doesn't mean he didn't use politics in the first place.

gimmick wrote:

So you wont even acknowledge that he is a huge talent? Look at all the top men in the company over the last 20 years, none of them have been angels. In fact Id hazard a guess tat most of them are pricks.

Of course he has talent but the point is he uses his massive political sway in the wrong fashion. He took himself out of the title picture for a while which was great but WM comes around and he's right back in there. It's tiresome.

gimmick wrote:

Two wrongs dont make a right. Booker didnt win the title and rightly so. He was champiuon in WCW, but we all saw where that went. In fact he joined such alumni as Steiner, Big Show and David Arquette.

I don't believe it would have been a 'wrong'. Booker was more over at that point in time than Orton was when he initially turned face.

gimmick wrote:

Again, such as? Some heels have come and gone, and when given an oppurtunity have not been able to handle it. If Im not mistaken Edge was injured at the time, and was a face anyway, i offered the other suggestions originally.

You misunderstood my point. The guy positioned himself as the top heel on Raw through 2003 so it's not a simple case of choosing an alternative for the WM20 main event in 2004. However if he had stepped aside in 2003 and allowed another heel enter the fray, such as Jericho before he turned face, then he would have been, in my opinion, a credible heel champion for WM20.

gimmick wrote:

What would you have done? I agree that it was a poor main event, but well a well booked storyline. It allowed Batista break through.

As I say I would have had things totally different. I certainly wouldn't have wanted JBL walking from the Rumble with the belt so I probably would have given it to Angle and then let Michaels win the Rumble and face Kurt for the belt. As for the Raw event, you'd have to look at the Elimination chamber match and I would have let Benoit or Jericho win the belt and let the other one fight for it at Mania. Triple H, Batista, JBL wouldn't have been near the title picture but I'm not a fan of 'big' wrestlers.

gimmick wrote:

Offloaded? WWE were put in a very bad situation, with the tragic loss of Eddie Guerrero, and Batistas injury at the same time. They needed star power on SD, and thats what Angle brought over. I dont see how that is HHHs fault.

Well those insider sites, which you call bollocks, reported that Triple H felt Angle did a poor job as heel in his feud with Cena and they also reported that Angle was unhappy with the decision to give Edge the belt after his feud. You may have heard yourself the rumours that Angle wanted to take the belt from Cena and have Cena chase it and that this was suggested to Vince. Sending Kurt to Smackdown killed two birds with one stone. It made Kurt a champion and left Triple H the chance to plan his WM main event route.

gimmick wrote:

Maybe youneed to read less of them, and try and look at things in a more balanced, objective fashion.

I'd rather be informed and not have to rely on Coach to tell me that Triple H is the greatest of all time.

gimmick wrote:

HHH does not automatically = bad.

Depends on the context I guess. For me, HHH in main event picture = bad.

gimmick wrote:

And what happens to SD? Leave it rot, and leave it lose one of its major stars for nothing in return? I just dont see the logic.

SD didn't have to rot. They could have chosen anyone to fill the Battle Royale and win the belt. I would have gone with HBK as it would have meant avoiding his angle with Vince but as I say, they could have went with anybody. Even Triple H.

gimmick wrote:

That is ridiculously vague, and sounds to me it was just thrown together in order to give the HHHaters more to bitch about. If it actually named someone it might have a bit of credence, but as it doesnt, it can be filed under B.

There is no way in hell they could name names. Be realistic. The person named would be fired immediately by the WWE.

gimmick wrote:

Does anyone have any evidence of this is what he is trying to do, or is it all speculation?

On one of the Byte This shows a fan asked him if he would like to beat Flair's title record and he said 'Ric would want me to do it' which is BS in my eyes but no doubt you agree with him.

gimmick wrote:

Regarding Jericho etc, I have to dig up an old link, where he said himself, he doesnt want to be top man, as a face or a heel. Cant remember his reasoning, but the fact he isnt 100% devoted to wrestling would be a good indictaor as to why (Fozzy being the reason).

I'd like to read that link because from what I've read, he has stated in interviews how disappointing it was for him to have to wait three years for a one on one title match.

gimmick wrote:

Ill finish this by saying I dont neccesarily believe everything I have posted here, I just think balance is needed with regard to HHH, thats why Im debating this, no other reason.

I'll finish by saying I'm not a HHH hater. He has put on great matches and when I've seen him live I have popped for his entrance and moves. With that being said, I feel he should use his unparalleled political power for better use. The reality is, most fans knew he would win this WM tournament and face Cena and WWE gets predictable when he's in the title picture. 20 minute promos etc.

I think it's a real shame that he can't have a WM match these days without it being for a belt.

gimmick · 26-02-2006 8:08pm

Then you admitted you had been wrong. Remember that?

Yes I do, and I remember what I had said. While I wont deny that i was dissapointed to see him leave, his little promo for TNA, while entertaining, smacked of bitchiness.

Now that aside, I find myself asking the question - is Christian that big a loss to WWE?

Arguably no for the following reasons
1. He has ALWAYS had someone by his side, possibly to hide his deficencies - Tomko, Trish, Jericho, Edge.

2. When was his last memorable match? Im sorry, but the last one I can think of is WM20 Vs Jericho, however, I am definitely open to correction there.

3. He was unhappy, he was, in his opinion, held back. Whetehr this was the case or not, he certainly thought it, so this in turn could have distracted his work ethic with an attitude of - "No matter how hard I work, Ill get nowhere, so whats the point".

Now im sure others will come back with plenty reasons as to why he is missed, so Ill wait and see what they are, and could very well be convinced.

You initially said "Over the last 5-6 years, HHH has been the hottest talent the wwe has had". Clearly you were wrong.

An assertion I have said why i think so. HHH is a constant in WWE, and has been able to drift in and out of the title seen seamlessly, something not many are able to do without losing credibility. I dont think Angle, for example, can do this. For him to maintain credibility, he needs to be in or around the title scene. I realise this is his first reign in almost 3 years, but look at those 3 years, apart from when he was out injured, look at his position on the card - always at the top near the title. HHH on the other hand, dropped back into mid card feuds with Eugene, Flair (some would argue Flair is low card at this point), Benjamin.

They could have chosen anyone to fill the Battle Royale and win the belt.............they could have went with anybody

Take Angle out of it, and the only people who could have legitimately taken the belt were Taker and Orton. TBH, I would have liked to see Taker get it, but if im not mistaken Taker wasnt even there, as he was storylined out for his return at the Rumble. I think by Angle going across, WWE basically spread their bets, and has feck all to do with HHH. WWE wants Cena as top man on Raw, as simply put, this gets the merch sold. SD was left needing, so they put him across.

I don't believe it would have been a 'wrong'. Booker was more over at that point in time than Orton was when he initially turned face.

I dont know was he? As far as I remember, he was over as he was fueding with HHH and Flair, a pretty guaranteed popularity bringer. I dont see where Booker could have went with the belt afterwards. If he were a heel, perhaps, but as things were, the right decision was made IMO.

As I say I would have had things totally different. I certainly wouldn't have wanted JBL walking from the Rumble with the belt so I probably would have given it to Angle and then let Michaels win the Rumble and face Kurt for the belt. As for the Raw event, you'd have to look at the Elimination chamber match and I would have let Benoit or Jericho win the belt and let the other one fight for it at Mania. Triple H, Batista, JBL wouldn't have been near the title picture but I'm not a fan of 'big' wrestlers.

I think you need to look longer term. Letting Jericho take the belt at that time wouldnt have been a good option as he was slated for his Fozzy bookings, so another reign for him would havbe looked transitional. Regarding Benoit, as much as I would love to see him as champ again, it probably wont happen, as the average fan never took to him, no matter how good his matches have been. He doesnt have the 'charisma' required to be a multi time wwe champ.Thats an unfortunate fact Im afraid.

With regard to 'big men', well thats what Vince likes, and it looks like thats what the average fan wants as well. If people wanted to see pure wrestling ability, ROH among others would be far bigger today.

Triple H felt Angle did a poor job as heel in his feud with Cena

He did do a poor job. He was a heel who couldnt get over fully. The reasons for this are many, but I thin the main one is Angle, as a wrestler, is so accomplished that people cannot help but appreciate him. Cena on the other hand, his matches were poor and IMO, was using heel tactics to win. Turn down the volume, Angle looked the face, as Cena was keeping the belt via DQs, and by being an oppurtunist. To use an example, look at the 3 way at Taboo Tuesday. Angle and HBK owned the entire match, and Cena picked up the win when the other two took each other out. Looking at past 3 way (or more) matches, this is how the heel would pick up the win.

he said 'Ric would want me to do it' which is BS in my eyes but no doubt you agree with him

Not quite. Honestly, I couldnt care less if he doubles Flairs record, as Flairs legacy will neevr ever be overshadowed, ever, by anyone. Quality not qunatity etc - however in Flaies case, it is both. I think thats pretty much what I said above.

Mr.Nice Guy · 26-02-2006 10:20pm

gimmick wrote:

Yes I do, and I remember what I had said. While I wont deny that i was dissapointed to see him leave, his little promo for TNA, while entertaining, smacked of bitchiness.

Now that aside, I find myself asking the question - is Christian that big a loss to WWE?

Arguably no for the following reasons
1. He has ALWAYS had someone by his side, possibly to hide his deficencies - Tomko, Trish, Jericho, Edge.

I don't agree with that. They didn't hide his deficiencies they simply contributed to his character. Christian had Tomko, but HBK had Diesel. Christian had Trish, but HBK had Sherri. Christian had Edge but HBK had Marty Jannetty. Indeed, I think they did a storyline once about how similar his path and Michael's paths were. Christian just needed faith from the upper management.

gimmick wrote:

2. When was his last memorable match? Im sorry, but the last one I can think of is WM20 Vs Jericho, however, I am definitely open to correction there.

Well I remember a widely praised match he had with Orton on Raw and there was WM21's MITB also.

gimmick wrote:

3. He was unhappy, he was, in his opinion, held back. Whetehr this was the case or not, he certainly thought it, so this in turn could have distracted his work ethic with an attitude of - "No matter how hard I work, Ill get nowhere, so whats the point".

I saw nothing wrong with his work ethic. In fact, if you remember, his contract had expired when he agreed to show up on Raw and Taboo Tuesday for the inter-brand matches in case he won in the polls.

gimmick wrote:

An assertion I have said why i think so. HHH is a constant in WWE, and has been able to drift in and out of the title seen seamlessly, something not many are able to do without losing credibility.

But we all know why he is a constant in the title scene...

gimmick wrote:

I dont think Angle, for example, can do this. For him to maintain credibility, he needs to be in or around the title scene. I realise this is his first reign in almost 3 years, but look at those 3 years, apart from when he was out injured, look at his position on the card - always at the top near the title. HHH on the other hand, dropped back into mid card feuds with Eugene, Flair (some would argue Flair is low card at this point), Benjamin.

I don't agree with that at all. Throughout the majority of 2004 Kurt wasn't near the title. You talk about Triple H's mid-card feuds, what about Kurt's? Off the top of my head, the matches with Big Show, Booker T and on Raw Kurt fought Eugene as well as Triple H did. There's also the Kurt Angle invitational matches.

gimmick wrote:

Take Angle out of it, and the only people who could have legitimately taken the belt were Taker and Orton. TBH, I would have liked to see Taker get it, but if im not mistaken Taker wasnt even there, as he was storylined out for his return at the Rumble. I think by Angle going across, WWE basically spread their bets, and has feck all to do with HHH. WWE wants Cena as top man on Raw, as simply put, this gets the merch sold. SD was left needing, so they put him across.

Why were Taker and Orton the only guys who could have taken the belt? Angle was a Raw guy so they could have went with any Raw guy like Michaels for example.

gimmick wrote:

I dont know was he? As far as I remember, he was over as he was fueding with HHH and Flair, a pretty guaranteed popularity bringer. I dont see where Booker could have went with the belt afterwards. If he were a heel, perhaps, but as things were, the right decision was made IMO.

But Orton was turned babyface by Flair and Triple H and many accept that fans didn't take to him from the face turn. However, Booker was face going into the feud and the fans liked him. He was popular enough for The Rock to put him over in the number 1 contennder spot for the Battle Royale.

gimmick wrote:

I think you need to look longer term. Letting Jericho take the belt at that time wouldnt have been a good option as he was slated for his Fozzy bookings, so another reign for him would havbe looked transitional.

I don't think so. Jericho realistically wouldn't have had a reighn as long as Cena's so taht wouldn't have been an issue. It could ahve been for a few months without it being transitional.

gimmick wrote:

Regarding Benoit, as much as I would love to see him as champ again, it probably wont happen, as the average fan never took to him, no matter how good his matches have been. He doesnt have the 'charisma' required to be a multi time wwe champ.Thats an unfortunate fact Im afraid.

Well I don't agree with that either. Certain wrestlers connect with the fans no matter how hard the WWE try to bury them. Benoit is one, RVD is another.

gimmick wrote:

With regard to 'big men', well thats what Vince likes, and it looks like thats what the average fan wants as well. If people wanted to see pure wrestling ability, ROH among others would be far bigger today.

I don't agree with that either. The fans are force-fed those kind of wrestlers but the ones who are getting more over now are the little guys. Take Rey Mysterio for example.

gimmick wrote:

He did do a poor job. He was a heel who couldnt get over fully. The reasons for this are many, but I thin the main one is Angle, as a wrestler, is so accomplished that people cannot help but appreciate him. Cena on the other hand, his matches were poor and IMO, was using heel tactics to win. Turn down the volume, Angle looked the face, as Cena was keeping the belt via DQs, and by being an oppurtunist. To use an example, look at the 3 way at Taboo Tuesday. Angle and HBK owned the entire match, and Cena picked up the win when the other two took each other out. Looking at past 3 way (or more) matches, this is how the heel would pick up the win.

This to me doesn't prove that Angle was a poor heel but that rather Cena was a poor babyface. His wrestling skills are poor in my opinion and I haven't seen much of an improvement. It will be the same story with his feud with HHH because HHH is a far better wrestler.

gimmick · 26-02-2006 10:57pm

We agree on nothing anyway, so this isnt a surprise, however

no matter how hard the WWE try to bury them. Benoit is one, RVD is another.

Bury Benoit? The man was given one of the best pushes in recent years, a push which was well deserved. I was delighted to see him win the belt, but the gimmick he was given of this smiling champ was crap. However, I dont see that as a burial.

Some may point at his current status on SD as being under utilised, which I dont agree with either. He has come off the back of a good fued with Booker for the US title, a belt which needed some credibility given to it, as Orlando Jordans reign made it look like a cheap title. Benoit could well do a great job here, and will most likely move into the main event frame in the next 12 months again. He doesnt need to be in the title seen at all times either.

Re RVD, I dont care less if he never sees another match in WWE. Never particularly liked him in WWE.

There's also the Kurt Angle invitational matches.

I forgot all about these.

He was popular enough for The Rock to put him over in the number 1 contennder spot for the Battle Royale.

The Rock was leaving again soon, so him winning would have made no sense creatively. I maintain what I said about Booker.

Why were Taker and Orton the only guys who could have taken the belt? Angle was a Raw guy so they could have went with any Raw guy like Michaels for example.

I honestly cant see your point. Why move Michaels? Angle is probably a bigger draw than HBK, so to give SD a shot in the arm, he was put across there.

It could ahve been for a few months without it being transitional.

Where would the long term pay off have been. Jericho didnt need the title at the time, as he was needed in other capacitys - ie MITB, and getting Cena over once he arrived on Raw using music as a storyline.

I don't agree with that either. The fans are force-fed those kind of wrestlers but the ones who are getting more over now are the little guys. Take Rey Mysterio for example.

But Mysterio has been shoved down the fans throats more than anyone else recently, and I reckon has done very well, unlike Orton when he recieved a similar push.

Mr.Nice Guy · 27-02-2006 5:37am

gimmick wrote:

Bury Benoit? The man was given one of the best pushes in recent years, a push which was well deserved. I was delighted to see him win the belt, but the gimmick he was given of this smiling champ was crap. However, I dont see that as a burial.

Some may point at his current status on SD as being under utilised, which I dont agree with either. He has come off the back of a good fued with Booker for the US title, a belt which needed some credibility given to it, as Orlando Jordans reign made it look like a cheap title. Benoit could well do a great job here, and will most likely move into the main event frame in the next 12 months again. He doesnt need to be in the title seen at all times either.

Benoit is a former World Champ and was the first Smackdown draft pick yet he has been shoved into mid-card feuds and gven US title matches only. That's an attempt at burying him in my eyes but his fan support has survived that.

gimmick wrote:

Re RVD, I dont care less if he never sees another match in WWE. Never particularly liked him in WWE.

Well that's your opinion (one I don't agree with) but I think you'd even acknowledge that he connects with the fans no matter where he is on the show.

gimmick wrote:

The Rock was leaving again soon, so him winning would have made no sense creatively. I maintain what I said about Booker.

He still put Booker over when he didn't have to. I maintain that Booker was a bigger face than Orton was and yet Booker never got the strap.

gimmick wrote:

I honestly cant see your point. Why move Michaels? Angle is probably a bigger draw than HBK, so to give SD a shot in the arm, he was put across there.

Why not move Michaels? They needed a face and HBK could have done an equally good job there. He has also not been on Smackdown full time since returning and he could have had some great matches there.

gimmick wrote:

Where would the long term pay off have been.

Pay off? He's a far better wrestler than Cena will ever be.

gimmick wrote:

Jericho didnt need the title at the time, as he was needed in other capacitys - ie MITB, and getting Cena over once he arrived on Raw using music as a storyline.

MITB was WM, his last match was Summerslam. He hardly did anything in between that.

gimmick wrote:

But Mysterio has been shoved down the fans throats more than anyone else recently, and I reckon has done very well, unlike Orton when he recieved a similar push.

Mysterio though is playing on the fan's love for Eddie Guerrero so is unlikely to be disliked by the fans.

gimmick · 27-02-2006 10:33am

Benoit is a former World Champ and was the first Smackdown draft pick yet he has been shoved into mid-card feuds and gven US title matches only. That's an attempt at burying him in my eyes

Ill keep this one short for a change - answer this question

Does a wrestler need to be in the main event scene in order to maintain credibility? Or can he move throughout the card without it hurting him, but at the same time help the company?

gimmick · 05-03-2006 6:17pm

^ Anyone want to hazard an answer here?

Mr.Nice Guy · 05-03-2006 6:21pm

gimmick wrote:

Does a wrestler need to be in the main event scene in order to maintain credibility? Or can he move throughout the card without it hurting him, but at the same time help the company?

It's subjective whether or not the wrestler is being 'hurt' or not. For example I would regard RVD's run on Smackdown where he was involved in mainly tag matches as him being 'hurt' but as you've admitted you're not a fan of his, presumably you would disagree.

I believe Benoit is being hurt being a former World Champ who doesn't look to have any prospect of challenging for the top belt - despite being, in my view anyway, one of the top two wrestlers on the show.

gimmick · 05-03-2006 6:28pm

But is the fact that Benoit is the US Champ not add much needed credibility to that belt, rather than vice versa?

I believe Benoit is being hurt being a former World Champ who doesn't look to have any prospect of challenging for the top belt

What does that mean? Look at Orton as an example here - he lost the IC belt and won the World Title in the space of 6 weeks. This is wwe, they dont look longterm anymore - Benoit could very easily be involved in the main event scene again after Wrestlemania. For the moment he is in the US division, doing a good job, not looking weak and helping SD all round

With regard to RVD, well I wa surprised by his lack of action on SD, but didnt he refuse to do a tour of Afganistan with management were well pissed off with? So its arguable RVD hurt himself.

Mr.Nice Guy · 05-03-2006 8:04pm

gimmick wrote:

But is the fact that Benoit is the US Champ not add much needed credibility to that belt, rather than vice versa?

He might bring credibility to the belt (Orlando Jordan sure didn't) but at what cost?

gimmick wrote:

What does that mean? Look at Orton as an example here - he lost the IC belt and won the World Title in the space of 6 weeks. This is wwe, they dont look longterm anymore - Benoit could very easily be involved in the main event scene again after Wrestlemania. For the moment he is in the US division, doing a good job, not looking weak and helping SD all round

It means that the WWE don't see him as being beyond the mid-card level. You mentioned Orton there. Benoit made him tap on Smackdown a few weeks back and the crowd was definitely on Benoit's side yet here we are going into WM22 and Orton as a World title shot while Benoit is in a US title match. It doesn't make sense to me.

gimmick wrote:

With regard to RVD, well I wa surprised by his lack of action on SD, but didnt he refuse to do a tour of Afganistan with management were well pissed off with? So its arguable RVD hurt himself.

I think that was the Christmas in Iraq special but if I remember correctly that was in November and RVD was traded in the middle half of the year. His career on Smackdown looked bleak from the off. I think on RVD's second match there he was pinned by Charlie Haas. Says it all.

no way out was awesome

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