Reccomend a "fun" 2 Seater

SouperComputer

Ok. looking to sell the Passsat and get somthing a bit preppier before we get too old!

Criteria:

1) Budget up to 4.5K (yup, not much I know!)
2) Engine no more than 1.6L, normally aspirated
3) Not too much hassle to get insured on.

Ideally a T top or convertible of some description. Importing from Japan is an option, we were considering an MX5 as they "seem" to be reliable and they are RWD.

Any suggestions or caveats for cars folks?

bazz26

Cannot really go wrong with the MX-5:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=342925

or Honda Civic CRX:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=334039
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=334103

or something classic:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=320684

Henry Ford III

MX-5. No real alternative. The 1.8 is a better bet however.

Look for a/c, abs, a hard top, and alloys.

RobAMerc

MX 5
Having the option of a CRX Del Sol or an MX5 some years ago, i choose the wrong one.
I am looking at buying an MX5 now and putting the wrong right.

The CRX was terrible, posser value only, MX5 is a better drive imho.

SouperComputer

okay, well it looks like possibly an MX 5 then.

A classic would be great but its going to be a daily runner for my wife. Also we will be transfererring our insurance from the Passat over.

Looking on honestjohn.co.uk, it seems that 1.6 MX5's after 1995 (Ie fitted with cats) produce a measly 88BHP. Thats pretty pathetic for a twin cam. Even our 8v 1.6 Passat produces 90! The MX 5 is about 400KG lighter though.


Any thoughts on MR2's?

Robbo

Have a look around for a MG Midget with a K-Series conversion. Go on, you know it mocks sense.

Henry Ford III

Mk1 MR2's are great. 1600cc and rwd. Quite rare now.

zuutroy

I recently sold a Honda Beat. They're great fun, but very hard to come by in Ireland

franksm

SouperComputer wrote:

it seems that 1.6 MX5's after 1995 (Ie fitted with cats) produce a measly 88BHP.

Only the UK-version MX5s had 88hp - if you go for an imported MX5 (ie. a Eunos), all the cars up to '93 had a 115hp engine (that version of the '5 was pretty light though). In '94 they all had the 1.8 engine with between 130 and 133hp (the car gained weight though).

Forget about the UK-spec 88hp 1.6, it's a dog. Whether you go for an earlier 1.6 or a later 1.8, it's pretty much the same. The 1.8s have more brace bars etc underneath (hence the weight) and would get my vote. Apparently there's a big insurance difference between 1.6 and 1.8, though, you'd better check that out first

Ernie Ball

SouperComputer wrote:

Any thoughts on MR2's?

I think the Mk II (import only, not convertible) and Mk III (roadster) are out of your price range. Also, they have bigger engines than 1.6l. A Mk I will be pretty hard to find.

For what it's worth, I love my roadster and chose it over the MX-5.

blastman

A Mk II CRX is within your budget. Although there's a bench in the back, it is a two-seater for all intents and purposes. €4.5K would get you a decent import VTEC model. They're quick, chuckable and very reliable. They're not really related to the Del Sol at all, either!

Fey!

MX5 - my only problem with them is that I don't fit in them!!! A couple of my friends have them, though, and reckon they're great fun to drive. Also, I've never heard of one to give a lot of mechanical trouble.

SouperComputer

Ive driven a del sol quite a bit. Its an okay car, the VTEC noise is nice, but the drive is going to the wrong wheels

What are the main differences between a given Del Sol and a CRX?

ds20prefecture

Suzuki Cappucino, if you can find one.

TempestSabre

SouperComputer wrote:

Ive driven a del sol quite a bit. Its an okay car, the VTEC noise is nice, but the drive is going to the wrong wheels

What are the main differences between a given Del Sol and a CRX?

A CRX can handle. A Del Sol has a chassis like a wet cardboard box.

TempestSabre

ds20prefecture wrote:

Suzuki Cappucino, if you can find one.

Tend to be dear. About 6-8k from the ones I've seen. The MX5 is a better car. The Cappucino would be cheaper to run though. Another choice is a Mrk1 MR2 out handles everything else. Hard to find a clean one though. Ditto the CRX.

BTW don't worry about speed, its not that important.

DrummerBoy

I'm going to slyly pop my head in to say my mum is selling her crx delsol for €4950. Details can be found here
It is a stunner of a car that I myself would buy if it only had the space to carry a drum kit!!

TCP/IP

i was in the same boat and wanted something fun before i got old. I went for an MGTF 160 and boy was it the best purchase ever. Have a look at a second hand MGF

SouperComputer

the cappucino and Honda Beat are a bit too small for my liking.

Ive had a quick look in Japan for MK1 MR2's and they are quite rare, also I think I may have trouble getting insured on somthing that "old"

Ill look into CRX's a bit more, altough I still have my reservations about FWD. I did find the Del Sol prone to flex under hard cornering, but still a positve enough turn in with not too much understeer under power.

@ drummerboy, thanks for the heads up, but to be honest the mileage and price is a bit higher than what I am looking at in Japan, including shipping VRT & VAT etc. Although my the Del Sol is somewhat sentimental to my wife as her deceased step father had one, so you might get lucky!

So, its looking like:

1) MX5
2) MR2 (if I can get a 1.6MkI)
3) Civic Del Sol
4) CRX
5) MGTF 160 (I have no idea about year/pricing so ill have to look into it)

Robbo:

Have a look around for a MG Midget with a K-Series conversion. Go on, you know it mocks sense.

Havent a clue where to start, any suggestions? Maybe Niall still has his

TCP/IP

TF would be way out of your budget but would blow all the other cars you have mentioned off the road. You might be able to get an MGF within your budget though and both are rear wheel drive so fun all round

Ernie Ball

TCP/IP wrote:

TF would be way out of your budget but would blow all the other cars you have mentioned off the road.

Put down the crack pipe and step away from the veh-hi-cle.:)

MGs are notoriously unreliable cars. And I don't think an MG can touch an MX-5 or an MR2 (any variety) in terms of performance.

I do like the look of them, though. If only they weren't MGs.

TCP/IP

Mate the TF160 is quicker than a golf GTI 0-60 and would leave any of these cars for dead. I do really like and MX5 but the MG is a proper 2 seater sports car and it has heritage as well. The latter models of the TF are top notch

SouperComputer

Now now folks dont turn this into a pi$$ing competition

If I had a choice id probably go MGF as the MX5 is fairly underpowered. Mid engine and RWD is ideal. But alas, its out of budget. However the MX5 looks good value for money.

Interceptor

TCP/IP wrote:

MG has heritage

:rolleyes:
yes, but this has two seats and heritage but that doesn't make it any good...

What about a Suzuki Cappucino?

'cptr

blastman

TCP/IP wrote:

Mate the TF160 is quicker than a golf GTI 0-60 and would leave any of these cars for dead. I do really like and MX5 but the MG is a proper 2 seater sports car and it has heritage as well. The latter models of the TF are top notch

Not wanting to get into a pi$$ing contest either, but there's no way it would leave a CRX "for dead" except in the cost of buying it! They have almost identical BHP and 0-60 specs.

TCP/IP

only 0-60 info i could find for the CRX is below

http://www.crxsi.com/specs.htm

SI model 8.5 seconds 0-60 i know the vetec would be quicker TF160 0-60 in 6.9

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/MGTF/mgtf05.html

The CRX could be gotten for a lot cheaper though and would go forever.

Stevo11

I also bought an MX5 (1.6) over the other options... still have it 7 years later with no plans to sell... best buy I ever made.

Steve

TCP/IP

I agree Steve the MX5 is a great little car and perfectly within budget for thes guy

ambro25

'98 1.8i MX-5 owner here. In the family since 2000, most likely to be passed down to the kids in "however many" years' time - and only by inheritance

blastman

TCP/IP wrote:

only 0-60 info i could find for the CRX is below

http://www.crxsi.com/specs.htm

SI model 8.5 seconds 0-60 i know the vetec would be quicker TF160 0-60 in 6.9

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/MGTF/mgtf05.html

The CRX could be gotten for a lot cheaper though and would go forever.

Those are figures for the US version, which was a different beast to the European and Japanese models. The VTEC model will do 0-60 in a shade over 7 seconds. Even the non-VTEC Jap/EU will hit sixty in under 7.5 seconds

Some specs here

TCP/IP

Nice info blastman well TF wins on speed and looks CRX wins on price

ambro25

Bear the OP's budget in mind, lads.

That would be early MGFs (no 'T'), and these were plagued with issues. Notoriously so.

[can't believe I'm saying this (but be fair to OP and consider everything)]

What about an early (real-early) Beemer Z3?

[/can't believe I'm saying this (but be fair to OP and consider everything) ]

blastman

TCP/IP wrote:

Nice info blastman well TF wins on speed and looks CRX wins on price

And reliability. And looks are subjective.

TCP/IP

god man the crx is shocking looking but the thing the MG and the CRX have is there is not a lot of them on the road so it might stand out

DrummerBoy

Well I just thought I'd give my opinion too!

Like I said earlier we (my mum) have a crx delsol so I can give a pretty decent summary of what they are like to own and drive. We're selling it because my mum has just bought a '98 MX5. So I can also give a pretty good comparison of both.

Both cars are pretty much the same size, although when sitting in each the MX5 feels like a much smaller car. The cockpit of the crx feels like it has much more space and loads of leg room. The factory fitted bucket seats also have you sitting closer to the ground, adding to the sports car feel.

Storage space. If it's a car that you or your wife plan to use as an everyday sort of thing storage space may become an issue. The MX5 has a boot the size of a glovebox! While you probably will fit your grocery shopping in the boot anything more than a few bags and your passengers walking. You could never fit a decent sized suitcase in the back of the MX5. You'd get a sports bag in the boot. The crx has a surprisingly large boot, partly due to the fact that this is where the hardtop is stored (without disrupting boot space). It also has two lockable glovebox sized enclosures behind each seat. Plus the usual centre console conpartment and regular glovebox.

Drive. To be fair to the MX5 I've only really driven the crx. Been out in the MX5 twice for sort trips down the road. First impressions, MX5 feels like a tighter car. It's a more powerful car but only just (we've a 1.6) but surprisingly doesn't feel as smooth on the road. MX5 being RWD and the CRX being FWD, all down to personal taste really.

Looks. These are completely subjective. Both are lovely looking cars, when kept in good nick. My own take on things would be that the MX5 would be a slightly more femine looking car and are unfortunatle a dime a dozen. The crx delsol is a lot less common on the road. I have found that it does turn a lot of heads and people are usually surprised to find out it's only a "Honda".

Parts. It goes without saying that the MX5 is the better option here.

Cost. MX5 tends to be the more expensive car but look through any car mag and you'll see they tend to keep a respectable value over the years. CRX, there never seems to be too many for sale and they are expensive enough for the year. But if you get a good one you'll have no problems at all. Jap cars are great like that.

Problems. Can't say anything about the MX5, we've just got it! CRX wise, I've heard that the ones with the electric retractable roof can be unreliable to the point where I wouldn't go near one. Can you imagine trying to get parts for that! €€€ We had one problem with our crx. The seal on the front drivers side alloy wheel started to leak. Three different garages couldn't figure this out. They were the original alloys that were on the car, so they were replaced and no problems at all since. It's been a super realible car.

Summary.
If it was me buying, I'd look for a good crx delsol out of the two. But that's just down to my personal tastes. I like the fact that there are not too many delsol's on the road and it feels great to drive.

Other options.
MR2's can be tough to find a good one at the right price. Insurance and road tax are high.
MGF, haven't heard anything good about them. But they do look great Only MG I'd go after would be a MGB/GT, but again thats personal taste.

Hope some of the above helps.
A

TCP/IP

MGB/GT now that is a beautiful could even be line for classic car insurance and tax as well good post drummerboy

SouperComputer

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

we have a car each, I have an ibiza any my wife drives the Passat. I cover more miles hence the ibiza is more economical.

We bought the passat when it was our only car so it needed to be big. Now we are looking to replace it.

A classic would be nice alright but I dont think we have enough NCB to get a policy, also It means that we have to drop either my own or my wife's policy to suit.

So, the MX5 is still leading, we are with hibernian and got a quote of 1189 fully comp for both of us (both 25yrs) for a 1.6 model. Its basically another 99 on top of our price for the Passat. An import would need to be checked with them first, so ill need to seek more advice there as they have a specific list of cars/variants that they can insure seemingly.

Seems to be plenty of fans for the MX5, the MR2 would be nice, im not sure how easy they are to get in 1.6L form though. Ive heard rust can be an issue for them, is this true.

Any resources for MX5's & MR2's that you guys could reccomend. Also, any ideas on where/how I can go about sealing the underside of an import?

Ernie Ball

SouperComputer wrote:

Any resources for MX5's & MR2's that you guys could reccomend. Also, any ideas on where/how I can go about sealing the underside of an import?

If you're after a Mk I MR2, try this place:

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/

They seem to have quite a few ads.

TempestSabre

Everything you need to know is on that site. Yes MR2 can rust around the rear wheel arches. Its an old car now. The latest one will be '91 thats 15yrs old.

TJM

Another vote for the MX-5. A pleasure to drive, bulletproof mechanicals, plenty of enthusiasts around and cheap parts for things like new hoods / rear windows. Some useful buying information here:
http://www.clubi.ie/webcars/roadster.htm

The MGFs / TFs are very good looking cars but are notorious for head gasket failures (http://shame.4mg.com/) while the mid engine layout makes them difficult and expensive to work on. Having said that, some people have retrofitted revised designs / temperature sensors which seem to cure the head gasket issue.

Slightly O/T, but you'd get a lot more car for your money if you could go up in engine size - have you considered an Alfa GTV or Fiat Coupe? (Not two seaters, but they might as well be - the rear seats are tiny.)

mmenarry

For MX5 resources, all you need is here: www.mx5ireland.com

If you want to see some '5s close up & personal, we meet on the first wednesday of every month (next meet is 1st March)

I'm an MX5 owner, so I can't claim to be un-biased (especially on the subject of MGFs *Head gaskets, cough*)

Try out a few of the cars on your list and find out what tickles the seat of your pants. If you're looking at sports cars, the only true way to decide what you want is to drive them - different strokes for different folks.

M.

SouperComputer

mmenarry wrote:

If you want to see some '5s close up & personal, we meet on the first wednesday of every month (next meet is 1st March)

Yup, ill probably pay a visit to that.

mmenarry wrote:

Try out a few of the cars on your list and find out what tickles the seat of your pants. If you're looking at sports cars, the only true way to decide what you want is to drive them - different strokes for different folks

Yea, ive been looking on CBG and so on, soo ill probably take a spin in a MX5. Im not too keen on the Mk1 MR2. It sounds like a hoot, but it looks like an absolute theft magnet.

TJM wrote:

have you considered an Alfa GTV or Fiat Coupe? (Not two seaters, but they might as well be - the rear seats are tiny.)

Id consider an alfa of some description alright, but we are stuck to a 1.6 under hibernian's Ignition scheme

franksm

As much as I love MX5s (I have a 1.8 turbo and can't imagine ever wanting to part with it by choice) I just want to correct something that was said earlier about classics & insurance etc. Getting a classic insured as your main car is one thing, but it is *much* easier to insure a classic as a second car.

That is, you keep your main car as "daily driver" and just use your classic up to a limited mileage (usually 4,000 miles per annum). Cost ? About €175 for the year. That's for a recognised classic car > 20 yrs old.

But, it usually will be a weekend car unless you're a gear-head, seeing as classics take a bit more looking after, need more concentration to drive, and are also a bit more draughty compared to a modern motor.

I have a '75 Stag too - bit of a project as it needs lots done - so am speaking from experience here on the insurance thing.

I'd advise you two things: if you want a daily driver, get an MX5. Just read what was written by Top Gear etc - it's the best British sports car that was never made in Britain; best handling car in its class (and puts more expensive cars to shame). And the second thing: if you want more of a weekend car, get an early 70's MGB convertible.

My '5: http://mx5ireland.com/members/frank/wheels
My current Stag: http://mx5ireland.com/stag/hvv416n
My previous Stag: http://mx5ireland.com/stag

SouperComputer

@frank, when I looked into classic insurance last year, I was told we needed X years NCB. We currently have none

@ambro25 a Z3 is WAY over budget!

Anyway, ive come across some interesting, but luckily rare crankshaft issues with the early MX5's (90-91). Im almost certain ill bring one in from Japan, unless one is selling here for a reasonable price, so far they are not IMO.

Im looking at this one landed in ireland including Shipping\Insurance\VRT\Landing Fee\Duty and VAT of 4500 (depending on exhange rate). Its a 92 with 56K Km on the clock. It has uprated suspension which appeals to me, although ill have to speak with Hibernian about it:

[members.boards.ie is down, so I have attached the images]

Its a good friend of mine who referred it to me, so im happy enough with the authenticity of it. The paintjob I like, but a respray always raises questions doesnt it....

Whats the story with the NCT on these, the earlier ones, IE the one I want (116BHP) have no cat. Im assuming this is an issue for NCT?

mmenarry

SouperComputer wrote:

@ambro25 a Z3 is WAY over budget!

They are also slower than an MX5, unless you go for the 3L version.

SouperComputer wrote:

Anyway, ive come across some interesting, but luckily rare crankshaft issues with the early MX5's (90-91).

The "short nosed cranks" are easy to spot, but should only cause a problem if incorrectly handled when changing the timing belt.

SouperComputer wrote:

Im almost certain ill bring one in from Japan, unless one is selling here for a reasonable price, so far they are not IMO.

They do hold their value, don't they!

SouperComputer wrote:

Whats the story with the NCT on these, the earlier ones, IE the one I want (116BHP) have no cat. Im assuming this is an issue for NCT?

All MX5's came with catalytic converters. If your chosen car is pre-94, then it's not a problem, there is no legal requirement for a CAT. My car (a 93) had it's last NCT a year ago (no cat). It would have passed the emissions tests for a 99 car!

Michael

franksm

Z4 is lovely (apart from it's ar$e end), but doesn't the remit

Z3 is awful to drive - you really need to try one out. It's based on the 3-series compact platform so is a bit of a compromise. Guess someone might say it's "not a real sports car" (which was also said earlier of the MX5, am I'm still trying to figure out why is isn't - not enough cup holders maybe ? No, perhaps because it's reliable...:) )

MX5 - as Michael says, even the short-nose-crank (1990 and 1991 models) engined '5s are nothing to worry about. Find out when the timing belt was done - if more than 12,000 miles ago, it's fine as any problems with misfitting the belt would have shown by now. Rust was mentioned too, but it's really only a problem with UK cars (mine is showing the problem) as salt from the roads gets under the paint on the sills and bubbles them. "Wheeler Dealers" on TV dealt with rust on the windscreen surround on an MX5 - I have never heard or seen that problem before.

Only things really to watch for on the '5 are the differential (the 1.6 diff can get noisy when worn, the 1.8 diff is bigger and bullet-proof). Poor servicing of the brakes can lead to sticky rear calipers which makes the handbrake stick. Not difficult to repair though (calipers are £120). Vinyl roofs shrink over time, but are quite cheap to replace (£200 to buy, another £200 to fit)

SouperComputer

all great advice folks. Also read about the weak 1.6 diffs, rest assured I will bust one. That miata site is fantastic.

Should I try to get a 1.8 diff or any other spares shipped with the car? Cupholders maybe?

franksm

See if you can get a set of standard suspension/shock/springs if the car you're looking at has Bilsteins (rock hard) as you may want to swap them in at some stage.

Also see if you can get some decent rollbars or stylebars for the back shelf - everyone seems to want them; even if you don't use them yourself, you'll easily sell them on.

The piece de resistance: if you can get the black plastic (ABS) spoiler that goes *under* the front bumper, those are big money over here (250EUR or more). Get some of those cheap, sell them on. Easy money And if you fit one to your own car, you will solve a sometimes-problem with the MX5 whereby when it's going fast (>80mph) the front end gets very light since the car itself is light, and fast-moving air is going under the car.

SouperComputer

cool, ill look into that.

Anyone got some laptimes for the national circuit @ Mondello.

stimpson

If you're interested in the CRX MK2, I'm on my 2nd and I've been driving them for nearly 5 years now.

A MK2 VTEC (SiR) is hard to find and you will spend at least 4.5K. They are rare as hens teeth. 160BHP and 1000KG = Get one with LSD and ABS if you can.

The non-VTEC 1.6 (Si) is almost as fast as it's lighter, but no LSD and it redlined a full 1000rpm sooner. Still a great car. 130BHP

Be ware of the 1.5x though - dual carb engine making 105bhp. Light as flip but underpowered.

Yes it has FWD, but if thats not an issue they are fantastic fun. They stick to the road like **** on a blanket. And the VTEC will show a clean pair of heels to many cars (including the MG) on the bends.

http://www.cr-x.org/home/forum/default.asp Is an Irish based forum and we're reasonably active and all very friendly!

franksm

stimpson wrote:

If you're interested in the CRX MK2, I'm on my 2nd and I've been driving them for nearly 5 years now.

Are those the ones with the glass hatchback ? And prior to that had the same hatchback but will less glass ? If so, they're *great*. Pocket rockets. Mate back in Belfast had one - an absolute hoot that was. He had a '78 Mini before that with a 1-litre engine and to him it was a natural progression from the Mini to the CRX as they handled similarly (if you know Minis, you'll know what I mean - go-cart stuff), but the CRX was like the big-boy's toy.