Slope Soaring in ireland - where to fly model planes

coolwings

It is very often these days that someone asks me where can you go to :

A - slope soar model planes in Ireland
B - find a model flying club field near to where someone lives
C - what do you need to slope soar, or fly PSS (electric Power Scale Soaring with fighters)
D - what is the right Irish slope to fly sailplanes or gliders, etc in the different direction or strength of winds.
E - Is there a map of Irish model flying sites ?

Well I have finally got the time to make up a soaring resource website for Slope Soaring on mountain slopes of Ireland.

At the moment, there is an emphasis on East coast model flight (Dublin, Wicklow, Louth, Wexford, Kildare, Meath) because that's where I mainly fly. But as I go from place to place I will add pictures of all the slopes, and the West is already there with Foxford, Ballina, and (soon) Castlebar & Cork slopes.
The map shows the both the model flying clubs (nitro - glowfuel aircraft from flat field) as well as the upland slopes where the gliders, hotliners, PSS fighters and jets fly.
The map is East coast to Midlands only right now, but the other maps are already almost ready and will be added soon.

Maybe others will find this helps to answer a lot of the questions we get asked about this kind of model flying in Ireland.

The link is:
http://www.greenhobbymodel.com/slopesoaring/index.htm

Thanks to Green Hobby & Model, in Dublin for kindly sponsoring costs and allowing me place the website on their webspace FOC.
Coolwings

PS I took the pics at Howth Head recently, it's a brilliant soaring place, and right on my doorstep since I live in Dublin. The Howth pics are here , so judge for yourself.

tallus

some excellent vids on that site!

coolwings

Any suggestions to improve it - drop me a PM.
It is still a "work-in-progress" and will be until I get all the pics taken, possibly during my hols.

Plug

I am getting a 2m glider from tower hobbies and i need help First of all is it possibe to launch it from my hand and all the land around my house is flat, so will the flight be long or just 30 seconds!
It is a kit and I got what I needed including a 2 channel radio system. Its proberbly not the best glider around but im just starting. I think its called the daydream, you,ll find it on tower.

coolwings

Plug wrote:

I am getting a 2m glider .....including a 2 channel radio system. Its proberbly not the best glider around .....

A 2ch radio is a car-boat ground-to-ground radio. :eek: You are being advised to buy incorrect gear. The rudder control will be on the wrong transmitter stick!
It will not transmit over a good range for planes, which are faster and go farther than ground models. It won't be on a legal frequency either.

I respectfully suggest that you look back over earlier threads on this subject before you part with your cash.

If money happens to be the problem, you would be better advised to buy a 2nd hand suitable outfit, instead of a new unsuitable outfit. I have 2 unused gliders (I use them for teaching beginners) , and most other fliers will too, usually we do not want much €€€ just see them go into a good home. that's why it would be a good idea to consult with a model flier.

As far as the size goes, 2M is OK for catapult launching from flat fields, 2M is very nice flying from a slope. If you've got a slope. But this size is ungainly for hand launching from the flat. You'll get sore arms. A smaller 1.5M would be more friendly for HLG (hand-launch-gliding) . I would get 1.5M if I was buying it for myself.

goldwing

its to late hes already placed the order

coolwings

Buy cheap/wrong - buy twice . Everyone has to learn sometime...
Unfortunately the instructors will all say " come back to me soon as you've got an airplane radio ....".

Plug

coolwings wrote:

A 2ch radio is a car-boat ground-to-ground radio. :eek: You are being advised to buy incorrect gear

Tower hobbies recommended that radio, theyre hardly wrong are they I mean its just rudder and elevator. I could just change the layout of the servos and recievier would that make it right.

loopingfred

Not all 2ch radios are only for cars and boats !

I had several 2ch radios (lots of "techniplus", some c4x from graupner, ranger from futaba...)
Never had any issues with thoses radios.
And don't forget, with small models, you fly closer from you, so, a 400 mtrs range it's generally not an issue... After 150 mtrs, it's already hard to see a 2.5 mtrs models.
So, for me, no worries with your radio, but if you plan to fly in a club, you must be compliant with the frequencies in Ireland (35Mhz), and if you are not in this case, you may need to change the transmiter / receiver.

Fred

Fobia

With a 2 channel radio, you'll need to buy new equipment if you ever want to pull a few stunts...and who doesn't?

loopingfred

You can already "play" a lot with only 2 channels...
Lots of pss are using only 2ch, my nanoh floh is using a cheap 2 ch radio, and lots of fun. My Destiny is using 2 ch aswell... :rolleyes:

Believe me, no need of expensive equipement if you want to have fun...

But where I agreed, it's if you want to go for more complex models, you will need to invest, that's for sure !
So, that really depend of your objectives with flying models.

Fred

coolwings

Plug wrote:

Tower hobbies recommended that radio, theyre hardly wrong are they .....

What frequency is the radio transmitting on? The ONLY legal frequency in Ireland for aircraft is 35FM.
You can tell the frequency by reading the box it came in, or by looking at the tiny label on the crystal in the receiver.
If it is 35FM - OK. BUT if your radio is anything else then they are wrong. Irish people using it break Irish law.
No Irish model flying club will let you fly an illegal radio. You will therefore (at some time) have to buy another radio and receiver. Then you will have bought two radios.

Hakko answered this question already in this post
and Fobia answered in this post
and I answered it in this post

I also PM'd you I could give you (free) flying lessons when I visit your area. But like any other instructor, that assumes the gear is legal so my insurance covers me. So I hope you are on FM35, otherwise I won't be able to help you get up and going either.

coolwings

The Irish Upland Flying Website has been updated.
Newly added are new flying locations at the Ceide Fields, Ballina and Cloch Mór, Foxford.
These flying locations are free for access, and good for flying in north or west winds.
Engines optional, definitely not necessary for this flying style.
The link is:
Dublin Mountains & Irish Upland Slope Soaring Website
Click on "The Slopes" to see the new locations (and the other flying sites also).

Plug

Its a 27mhz radio, the same as car radios.

coolwings

We knew that.
I hope nobody uses a CB radio in Kilkenny while you're flying.

Plug

Will it effect it?

g5hn710m4xpdwy

from the sounds of his post maybe you will need a new plane?:rolleyes:

Plug

I flew the glider yesterday for the first time. Its surprisingly good considering how cheap it was:)

coolwings

Good man!
If you want to slope it and find out what a 1 hour flight feels like - there are west facing slopes between Foulksrath Castle and Durrow. I have been meaning to go up there and locate a nice few fields for a while now.

Plug

Theres a lot of farm land near my house but its quiet flat. Does that mean i,ll only get a few minutes . Do you have any tips as I havent a bulls notion on the basics of sailplanes. Does wind have much of an effect on its handling?
Help would be much appreceated:)

coolwings

1. Twinspeedy-PSS (power soaring) soaring (engines off) in slope lift
2. Slope lift with a Joy thermal competition type HLG
3. Javelin launch with a hand-launch glider (thermal slowfly type glider), fly round, back, catch or land 2.7Mb
4. Bungee launch HLG (hand launch glider) to a greater height, get longer flight, fly back, land or catch6.3Mb
5. Hand launch, thermal flight, climb to height without power in thermal, later hand catch landing15Mb
6. Discus launch gliders (also called Side hand launch gliders (SHLGs)

Good thermal sources are black tarmac car parks, or tarcloth factory roof, in sunny conditions. Ploughed earth can be good. Heat thermals rising from trees in the evening is very good , but risky location to fly too close to trees.
Summer or winter are both good because it is not heat that does it, it's temperature differences in still air.

We usually slope soar it it's windy.

All you need to fly is the right plane and a radio.

coolwings

Ooops ... that should be seven ways to go gliding & soaring.

How could I have forgotten flying wings ! :eek:

They're so much fun ... I 've now got more airmiles up on my sport wing than any other model .
Sport Wing soaring both with and without engines fitted. 1.9Mb.

PS Besides it gave me an opportunity to edit a trumpet to a flying vid clip. Something I have idly been thinking of for a while....

Plug

Flew it and the wing snaped but I fixed it. When I thron it, it went down nose first to the ground even though its heavy behind the wing spar

loopingfred

Yep... Certainly a Centre of gravity issue here. Or a profile issue (that depend of the wings, some need some elevator up even in neutral to have the good autostabilised profile (Like a E186, SBFW and so on..).
And to add at that, the CG range of a Flying wing is very tight...

What is the model of your flying wing ? The best will be to have a picture of the top view of your wing and I can compute the CG for you.

Fred

Plug

The groud who desighed it siad it should balance at the wing spar which it did They also siad when throwing it let it pick up speed before you try anything, I didnt try that but I dont see how its going to pick up speed as it has no motor and theres no hills around my house. I,m a bit sketcky about the next time I fly it:(

loopingfred

Any Manufacturer / flying wing name ?
Picture ?

Not a lot of infos to help you here...:o

Fred

Plug

Its here http://www.dynaflite.com/reviews/dyfa2018-rcm.html:(

loopingfred

Ooopss, sorry.. Understood that was a flying wing !
I've read the post too quickly !

Ok so...
First, balance the model :
Fingers under the wing spar, the model should be a bit noze down..
Heavy behind the wing spar (so tail heavy...) it's .. Bad..
So, balance the model noze down a little bit and that should be better ! Much better !

So, with this model, and if you don't want to change the radio, you can use Bungee (sandow) launch.
You have to put a hook under the fuselage, at around 2 - 3 cm in front of the CG.
For the bungee : 30 meters of sandow, and 150mtrs of nylon/ fishing cable (at least 25 Kg resistant). For the best days, that will allow you to gain 80 - 90 meters of altitude, but go little by little for the first launches, and here you go !


See the hook ? (the white square thing under the fuselage).

So first, change your CG, do some launches and let us Know and I'll guide you to the next step !

Enjoy !

Fred

Plug

The flight times are fairly short, very short in fact going around 30 yards:( I dont have a hi start (sandow) so maybe this is why the flight time is limited I had to add nuts in the front to balance it, there is a fair bit of weight in the thing considering its a glider but I still need to add more to get it nose down. Also does the wings have to be balanced exactally? There a tiny bit out.
Thanks for any help:)

loopingfred

Yep, if the balance is incorrect, you will not fly far...

Don't worrie about the weight you have to put into the noze to have a correct balance...Just balance it right and you'll see the difference.

About the hand launch... Don't launch the glider noze to the sky, but right in front of you (kind of flat launch..). A glider, and most important, the profile need a certain speed to be efficient ! So let the glider build a bit of speed and that will be fine !

Go to my website and check the videos.. You will see loads of hand launch (ok, on the slope, but the principle is the same), and you'll see that we start to touch the elevator after the glider have speed. Otherwise, he fall. Airspeed is the glider motor !

Let me know if you have other questions,

Fred

==========================
Gliders in Ireland
http://gliderireland.modelisme.com
==========================

coolwings

This is a typical flight from the flat from a javelin style hand launch launch - fly - return - catch or land near pilot 2.7Mb
The launch has been made close to the maximum angle of elevation possible for this glider.
I guess the maximum angle of launch for your glider may be half of the angle in the video. Or , as Fred suggests , a flattish angle of throw.
On an absolutely flat throw, (aimed at the head height above the horizon) a distance of 30 - 50 metres to touchdown might be expected with such a model.
So when you say 30 metres Plug, I do not necessarily think your CG is very far forward. It may be a little forward, or it may already be right.
One thing is sure - if you move the CG too far back - the model will become unflyable, and will stall on every launch.
I suspect that since you did not mention stalling in flight, that you already have it set up correctly, and that this is possibly the level or performance it may always fly at.

The weight and wing shape tells a lot about how fast it will come down.

For example:
My hand launch glider "Joy" weighs 230 -240 grams and has a wingspan of 60 inches.
The wings are approx 6-8 mm thick at point of maximum thickness.
Check the weight and wingspan and wing thickness of your sailplane ?

loopingfred

Hi Norman,

The wing thickness and weight of the glider alone is too little information about how far the glider will go / glide.

One of the most important factor is the wing profil. The wing profile will determine the wing loading needed for the glider to perform, and the use of this glider.

The Destiny have a RG15. This profile need some weight to perform, but if you take a profile like the Go549 with at least 5% of cambrure and 12 - 13 % thickness (that's a lot..), your glider will need more weight and to be heavy, but in a simple launch can travel twice the distance of the Destiny at the same weight and with a "small" profile (around 6 %, so that's at around 10 - 12 mm thick)...Slowly, but surely

To compare with Plug's glider, I had a spirit (first type..) and in a launch, was able to glide at least 150 mtrs. So, for me, 50 mtrs for a light glider is a bit too close and there is definityvely something wrong in your setup.
Same thing for my "Echo Fox" (1.5mtrs wingspan) and many others.

Anyway, you said that your glider was still tail heavy, so that is the source (at least one ) of your problems.
So, has I said, don't worrie about the weight of your glider, just balance it right, and I repeat, launch your glider "flat" and let it build his airspeed.

Fred

loopingfred

A quick picture :
A launch of my Destiny :


See the angle ?

You must let the glider build is speed before trying to glide / gain some altitude.

Fred

Plug

Thanks for the help lads:)

tallus

I never had the patience or the skill to build one of those models

loopingfred

Plug wrote:

Thanks for the help lads:)

No Problemo,

Let us know how your flights / tests are going !

Fred

loopingfred

tallus wrote:

I never had the patience or the skill to build one of those models

You can buy a Ready to fly...:)
No skills required, but that's a bit boring

Fred

tallus

not for me it aint ! all of my cars are rtr

loopingfred

Yeah... I see.. The Dark side of the force !

Fred

tallus

lol

coolwings

loopingfred wrote:

....The wing thickness and weight of the glider alone is too little information about how far the glider will go / glide.

Sure - but we are just trying to suggest a ballpark to Plug.

loopingfred wrote:

....One of the most important factor is the wing profil. The wing profile will determine the wing loading needed ...weight to perform, but if you take a profile like the Go549 ...

I have been assuming a "clark Y" profile is in his wings, 90% of beginner models have that one or a modified clark-Y, but I didn't bring up the issue because there is nothing he can do about the profile - so why worry about it? the normal Clark-Y would be fine IMHO.

loopingfred wrote:

.... and in a launch, was able to glide at least 150 mtrs. So, for me, 50 mtrs for a light glider is a bit too close and there is definityvely something wrong in your setup.

I would expect similar distance too, and so will Plug - later.
But I'm willing to bet he would be terrified to throw it as hard as we do (at this early stage) until he is sure he has all the bugs fully sorted out.
So Plug, when you read this, the idea is "it gets better from here" as you figure out all the little tricks.

loopingfred wrote:

.... you said that your glider was still tail heavy, so that is the source (at least one ) of your problems.....So, has I said, don't worrie about the weight of your glider, just balance it right, and I repeat, launch your glider "flat" and let it build his airspeed.Fred

Yeah - you definitely got to balance it properly - it's important.
Read the instructions about that CG balancing part twice , and follow them exactly.
Broadly speaking it goes like this:
Put a fingertip under each wing, at the thickest part, about 1 foot out from the middle, and hold the model up balanced on your fingertips.
It should hang with the nose 1"-2" lower than the tail, by itself. If it hangs level, or with tail lower, you've got to move gear round inside (usually the battery) until it balances correctly.

When you have the Centre of Gravity (CG) right, (and the controls at middle=straight) it will tend to go where you point it, and you are safe to throw it a darn side harder ! That is wheh you really find out what it can do.

But surely this is all in the book that came with it?

Plug

coolwings wrote:

But I'm willing to bet he would be terrified to throw it as hard as we do (at this early stage) until he is sure he has all the bugs fully sorted out.
So Plug, when you read this, the idea is "it gets better from here" as you figure out all the little tricks.

Your right there:D

coolwings wrote:

But surely this is all in the book that came with it?

Yeah most of it ,but they make it sound too complicated

coolwings

Plug wrote:

Your right there:D
Yeah most of it ,but they make it sound too complicated

They do that allright. You get used to the technical terms after a while.

Plug

I kind of crashed it yesterday into a branch:D The wing broke only slightly but the fin snapped, I,ll fix them tonight. Do you know if that glue "no more nails" works good with balsa

loopingfred

Working Ok, but not the ideal...

You should better use Cyano glue or Epoxy if need something really strong.

Fred

coolwings

I have added new links for the following flying locations onto the uplands flying resource website.

Dalkey & Killiney Hill, and Sorrento Point, at the Vico Road, Dublin

The Ceide Fields, Co Mayo

Cloch Mor, Foxford, Co Mayo


This is the link Guide to Flying Model Gliders & Slope Soaring PSS in Ireland

coolwings

Seven new upland model flying locations have been added to the Slope Soaring Information Resource. And all the links now have a map.

The new links are:
Bray
Wicklow
Killaloe
Macroom
Millstreet
Kinsale
Lough Tay
Howth - East slopes

Once again is the link Where to Fly Model Gliders & Slope Soaring PSS in Ireland

coolwings

Over the weekend I added some new pics to the uplands flying info resource website .

Some nice pics and plenty of detailed info on where to fly from Bray Head.

New pics of Killakee North slope, Dalkey & Killiney.

Also new info added about the following upland soaring-flying sites:
Annagh Hill, near Gorey
Enniscrone Dunes at Ballina
Tonelegee, Wicklow Gap
Tountinna Mountain, Killaloe
Fanore Dunes, Co Clare
Black Head, Co Clare.

Here is the link Where to Fly Slope Soaring PSS power models, and RC gliding in Ireland
Select the links for "The Slopes"


Enjoy
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Plug

I was trying to flying my glider yesterday. How come when it goes up it just stays up for 10s tops Is it the fact that its too heavy? Are they anyways of getting it up high with just normal day to day stuff:)

coolwings

Possible reasons for shorter flights.

Expertise:
naturally as you stick at it you get better. You will be losing a good bit of height on turns still. This will improve over time.

Weight of components:

Servos:
The thermalling gliders will have 9 gram servos inside.
That's 18 - 20 grams for 2 or 4 servos (depending on the particular model)
If you have standard servos inside they are 42-45 grams each.
So if your glider has standard servos, then just one servo would weigh the same as 4 x sub-micro servos in my plane.

Battery:
I would be using a receiver battery made of 4 single batteries each half the length of an AA cell. This weighs 38 - 30grams. For a larger glider my battery would be a larger size at about 55 grams.
If you have a receiver battery of 4 x AA cells then you have 120 grams of battery in there - either 3 or 4 times the weight I allow for this component.

These are what I would consider appropriate for a thermalling glider. Weight counts for far less if you are slope soaring.

Plug

Thanks for that coolwings:)
The glider has 2 standerd servos inside with a bag of nuts and bolts at the front to balence it. I thought as it is a 2m glider it would be no problem with them few stuff inside. Is slope soring trowing it off a cliff or something?