Is the Catholic Church GONE ???

MarinoMark

Just an observsation..Could be right...could be wrong... Went to mass on sunday for the first time in yonks...Massive Church...Iona Rd...The place was empty, could hold several hundred..about 50 there, all elderly..what happens when these people pass on....Empty church, worth a fortune. I also live close to Clonliffe Collage where priests are trained, Place is also massive..Training is 7 yrs. Only 13 priests there...Training over 7yrs. 13 Total. No recruits last year,1 the previous year,2 the year before...Best turn Muslim !! Comments Welcome.

Lorri_L

I think the Catholic church has just become to strict and outdated to be honest. I tend not to go because I would be bored silly!

Mossy Monk

perhaps if they got with the times people may gain interest

Ri_Nollaig

maybe a nice icon
^^^^^^buddy christ for example

philologos

MarinoMark wrote:

Best turn Muslim !! Comments Welcome.

well you could just join one of the protestant churches if you feel that way about it

smashey

They don't help themselves. When a Bishop in Donegal says that co-habiting couples cannot receive communion you have to think they should concentrate on more important things for example poverty and so on. To me it appears as if they spend too much time preaching about sex, much to the detriment of other subjects. And lets face it, Bishop Casey has arrived in his new home in Galway today to live a very comfortable life no doubt. Who's sin was greater? A couple living together outside marriage or a Bishop fathering a child and keeping it quiet for years while using diocese funds to support him.?

senordingdong

Religion has no place in the first world.

MarinoMark

smashey wrote:

They don't help themselves. When a Bishop in Donegal says that co-habiting couples cannot receive communion you have to think they should concentrate on more important things for example poverty and so on. To me it appears as if they spend too much time preaching about sex, much to the detriment of other subjects. And lets face it, Bishop Casey has arrived in his new home in Galway today to live a very comfortable life no doubt. Who's sin was greater? A couple living together outside marriage or a Bishop fathering a child and keeping it quiet for years while using diocese funds to support him.?

Excellent Reply !

Simi

Not dead yet but soon, very soon . And I agree, religion has absolutely no place in a modern civilised society. And the catholic church continues to do irreperable challenge in the third world by preaching abstinance instead of safe sex.

Wertz

senordingdong wrote:

Religion has no place in the first world.

An awful lot of Americans disagree with you.

I'm not religious at all....not been to church cept for funerals since I made my confirmation...sunday mass to me when I was young was always a fashion parade where you showed your face in your sunday clothes...the vast majority of people there were hypocrites.

Religion should have a place in family life, but catholicism has it all wrong (and getting more wrong by the decade)...people don't want to be preached to and warned by some guy in a cassock who apparently's never had sex, doesn't have kids and so on.

Out of curiousity when I lived the 'States, I went along to a sunday service with some american friends...it was altogether a different experience...more of a scoial gathering, a lot more relaxed than I ever recalled mass back home being...okay so there was some evangelical aspects I didn't really have too much time for, but it wasn't being forced down people's throats either.

Catholicism ruled Ireland for many many years...I think our generation feels betrayed by it when we hear of sex scandals and abuse claims that happened way back when...a sad reality. Only elderly people still go, for no other reason that I can see than that it's a habit they've always had (that's not to dismiss their faith, assuming they have any).

One last ting that annoys me though about the lack of attendance at mass, is that the same people who don't go are probably the ones dreaming of €30 grand weddings and who take their children to be baptised right before they head for the pub to wet the baby's head....that all goes back to the hypocrisy I mentioned in my first paragraph...

mickymg2003

Maybe they should try and make it not so Fu**ing boring. Its like listening to paint dry in those services.

bobbi

i hope the catholic church is gone.Religon is evil.:D

netwhizkid

Celibacy isn't Hereditary ! If the Church allowed priest to marry and also allowed Women priests then it would more acceptable. But when the Church elects a right-wing Neo-Con with old Ratzi the nazi as pope. The real question is which company will tender for all that prime church property that will be sold in the years to come.

DublinWriter

MarinoMark wrote:

Just an observsation..Could be right...could be wrong... Went to mass on sunday for the first time in yonks...Massive Church...Iona Rd...The place was empty, could hold several hundred..about 50 there, all elderly..what happens when these people pass on....Empty church, worth a fortune. I also live close to Clonliffe Collage where priests are trained, Place is also massive..Training is 7 yrs. Only 13 priests there...Training over 7yrs. 13 Total. No recruits last year,1 the previous year,2 the year before...Best turn Muslim !! Comments Welcome.

I'm just reading the Biography of McQuaid, the Archbishop of Ireland who successfully made the Dev government ban the import of Tampax into Ireland in the late 1940's.

Based on where we came from, it would be tempting to say that the Catholic Church is with O'Leary in the grave, but in real terms, it isn't.

About 95% of Irish state Primary and Secondary schools are controlled by the Catholic Church.

As the Jesuits say, show me the boy and I'll give you the man. They weren't kidding either!

What's really needed is a Vatican III and for the Catholic Church to allow priests to marry (as they did for the first 1,500 years of their history).

Liam Lough

The church is still very strong in rural Ireland. The church was for too long a facility for devients to practice their evil. There are many fine young priests all over Ireland - certainly in our town - carrying on the fine traditions of the Catholic Church. Don't jump on the bandwagon because of gob****es like Casey and Cleary and evil men like Father Smyth and Fortune.Our church is packed every Sunday morning with all types and ages.

Who do you turn to during a family bereavement or tragedy - people have short memories. The church in Ireland will always be strong, certainly when the next generation arrive to take over from the present selfish generation who have it all and cannot even form long term relationships in case it might impose on their fun.

The present generation are childish and me-feiners. Ireland will be a long time picking up the pieces from this sad lot of selfish non-entities. The last generation who had nothing of consequence materially were loyal and full of nature and sinserity - qualities our present generation no nothing about.

nlgbbbblth

smashey wrote:

Who's sin was greater? A couple living together outside marriage or a Bishop fathering a child and keeping it quiet for years while using diocese funds to support him.?

A couple living together outside marriage

EOA_Mushy

senordingdong wrote:

Religion has no place in the first world.

Not entirly true... Does not have to be as strict or shown to be. Does cause a lot of problems though. Common thought in all religions tend to be general good choices (e.g. dont kill people)

As for the catholic church, let them **ck and it would completly change their thinking/let them focus on another topic... simple

jimmycrackcorm

An awful lot of Americans disagree with you.

I'm not religious at all....not been to church cept for funerals since I made my confirmation...sunday mass to me when I was young was always a fashion parade where you showed your face in your sunday clothes...the vast majority of people there were hypocrites.

I occasionally go and actually like it- I also have a kid so I want him to have some sort of good life framework which is what catholicism. It has its negative points but hey - nothing is perfect.

Religion should have a place in family life, but catholicism has it all wrong (and getting more wrong by the decade)...people don't want to be preached to and warned by some guy in a cassock who apparently's never had sex, doesn't have kids and so on.

An analogy is that there shoudlbe no male gynaecologists as they don't have wombs and never gave birth.

Out of curiousity when I lived the 'States, I went along to a sunday service with some american friends...it was altogether a different experience...more of a scoial gathering, a lot more relaxed than I ever recalled mass back home being...okay so there was some evangelical aspects I didn't really have too much time for, but it wasn't being forced down people's throats either

.

That's entertainment.

Catholicism ruled Ireland for many many years...I think our generation feels betrayed by it when we hear of sex scandals and abuse claims that happened way back when...a sad reality. Only elderly people still go, for no other reason that I can see than that it's a habit they've always had (that's not to dismiss their faith, assuming they have any).

yes too much of a mysticism and a rebellion since. If only we were clever enough to accept that priests and bishops are human.

One last ting that annoys me though about the lack of attendance at mass, is that the same people who don't go are probably the ones dreaming of €30 grand weddings and who take their children to be baptised right before they head for the pub to wet the baby's head....that all goes back to the hypocrisy I mentioned in my first paragraph...

That's simply a social thing - no one nowadays is taking the all or nothing approach to religion. You might as well aruge that mass goers should really take note of their sins as they occur on their PDA and download them to the priest in the confession.

Kernel

Mossy Monk wrote:

perhaps if they got with the times people may gain interest

Yes, we should change the Word of God to suit our decadent times. Maybe get Peter Stringfellow to lend a few strippers for handing out the Communion and serve fat frogs instead of wine.

On a serious note, the fast growing popularity of very conservative Catholic groups, like Opus Dei, among the young people shows that 'getting with the times' isn't necessarily the way to go. Anybody who is serious about theology doesn't necessarily want to see a Church flip-flopping their core beliefs just to get a few arses on pews.

Anyway, OP, there are younger people still in the CC. depends what time you go to Mass at on Sunday. Earlier shows usually get more of a turnout. Also, since Pope John Paul II died, the Catholic Church is enjoying a bit of a renaissance (vocations are up, and so is attendance).

Kernel

Simi wrote:

And the catholic church continues to do irreperable challenge in the third world by preaching abstinance instead of safe sex.

I think abstainance is a good lesson for the third world. Particularly if you would not have the means to feed any children you may have, and of course there's the rampant spread of the AIDS virus due to promiscuous sex.

Vince135792003

Its certainly gone from its position of almost untouchable power of 20/30/40 years ago. It'll never get it back and it should n't either.

But just from my personal experience, people who I would know that have a strong faith in any religion seem to be the most trusting, genuine and at peace with themselves bunch of people that I come accross than those who have no faith.
Religion at that very personal level I think is a postive thing.

Sleepy

The weak will always need their crutches so I don't see the church ever dying out in Ireland tbh.

Kernel

Sleepy wrote:

The weak will always need their crutches so I don't see the church ever dying out in Ireland tbh.

Grow up, there's nothing weak about having a belief in something. :rolleyes:

Vince135792003

I just saw a brief clip of a guy discussing his beliefs in an environment that was quite difficult and it was both powerful and moving.

Kablamo!

i do not follow the bible word for word, although i do claim to be a practising roman catholic.

i love religion. its a comfort blanket of sorts.

mass gives me a great sense of peace.

in my opinion, religion is great!

tintinr35

Kernel wrote:

I think abstainance is a good lesson for the third world. Particularly if you would not have the means to feed any children you may have, and of course there's the rampant spread of the AIDS virus due to promiscuous sex.

ya because u are really going to stop people having sex.....its human nature. the church needs to promote safe sex not no sex
__________________

TheBigLebowski

I just can't get my head around how people believe in any of that religion crap.

Jimi-Spandex

Simi wrote:

And the catholic church continues to do irreperable challenge in the third world by preaching abstinance instead of safe sex.

Yes, because abstinance exacerbates the spread of HIV. :rolleyes:


I'm not picking on you in particular, I've seen alot of people make this ridiculous assertion, but it's one of the most idiotic criticisms of the catholic church I've ever read. Of all the many things they have done wrong in their history that you could easily pick apart, this is not one of them.

Our man in Havana

As Karl Marx once said "Religion is the opiate of the people".

I tend to agree with him.

Sleepy

Kernel wrote:

Grow up, there's nothing weak about having a belief in something. :rolleyes:

Well, the only other explanation for ignoring common sense, reason and logic is stupidity so have it as you like: are you stupid? or weak?

Hobbes

Sleepy wrote:

Well, the only other explanation for ignoring common sense, reason and logic is stupidity so have it as you like: are you stupid? or weak?

Is that what you believe?

smashey

nlgbbbblth wrote:

A couple living together outside marriage

The couple living together have never taken a vow of celibacy in front of their God. The Bishop did. This is where the hypocrisy comes in. How often after the birth of his child did he stand on the altar preaching about morals when all the time he was it it himself. He seems to be getting a heroes welcome in Galway. Some people seem to think it is a Papal visit.

On the subject of third world sex, it is after all human nature. Perhaps the Catholic Church should wake up and smell the coffee, because for the majority of people abstinence is not an option. They should instead try to encourage safe sex. Surely they must see by now or maybe they are deluding themselves, that no amount of preaching is going to stop people having sex.

MorningStar

The church still has a lot of control and power. Many people get their children christened as a ritual not a religious outing the same applies for marriage and eventually death.
I know most people who art religious who do all these things.

I refuse to be a god parent becasue I am aware of what it is.

Most people don't think about it untill they need from it. I did not get married in a church and I won't tkae the sacrement , pray or other catholic practices becasue I don't believe it.

Most other people will do the whole lot

franksm

The basics of religion are fine - do unto others, etc, and the commandments are a good basis for a good life, but the methods and presentation have no place in society today. And when you see how two-faced the religions are (Catholic church for one, Muslim church for another) they're only doing more harm than good.

Lux23

Simi wrote:

Not dead yet but soon, very soon . And I agree, religion has absolutely no place in a modern civilised society.

I disagree. Religion has every place in a modern civilised society. People should have a right to worship who or what they want, in exactly the same way I have the right to stay in bed on a Sunday morning instead of heading to Mass. Its all about choice. I don't have a right to slag someone off for attending Mass and they don't have a right to try and force their views on me.

There should however be total separtion of church and state and the RC Church should have no bearing at all on law making in this country or any country.

englander

People all around me say they are religious (Catholic). I ask them why, and a after a brief discussion you know they haven't really thought about it much.
- yet they happily and proudly say they are Catholics but dont neccesarily go to church.

Surely a religion is something you either follow or dont follow - that should be thought about long and hard. If what you believe in, falls into that religion then you fit into it, otherwise you dont. Part of Catholic religion is going to church is it not ?

When I talk to Irish in-laws, they go to church almost out of a sense of guilt. "Eeee, I missed mass on Sunday, I'll have to go today instead". The older members of the family have the mindset of the more they go, the better things will be, the better they are as people.

The younger family members go to church be seen by the older members of the family, gaining their respect !

Maybe the Catholic church is losing its guilt inducing power and any misplaced respect it had in the first place.

I have been to maybe 10 masses over the last couple of years. Looking around you can see people yawning or staring into space. I paid attention to what the priests were saying. It was very dull and no clear message given. I chatted to family members and they had no real idea what the priests point was.

Kingp35

smashey wrote:

On the subject of third world sex, it is after all human nature. Perhaps the Catholic Church should wake up and smell the coffee, because for the majority of people abstinence is not an option. They should instead try to encourage safe sex. Surely they must see by now or maybe they are deluding themselves, that no amount of preaching is going to stop people having sex.

I agree with this. In the eyes of the catholic church using contraception for sex is a sin. Take South Africa for example where the majority of people are catholic. The spread of AIDS and the amount of people that die in South Africa every year because of aids is crazy. If the catholic church woke the hell up and changed their views that contraception is a sin they could save thousands of lives. But do they do this? No, they continue to preach abstinance which, in this day and age, is just not going to happen. They need to wake the hell up and get with the times.

MorningStar

Kingp35 wrote:

I agree with this. In the eyes of the catholic church using contraception for sex is a sin. Take South Africa for example where the majority of people are catholic. The spread of AIDS and the amount of people that die in South Africa every year because of aids is crazy. If the catholic church woke the hell up and changed their views that contraception is a sin they could save thousands of lives. But do they do this? No, they continue to preach abstinance which, in this day and age, is just not going to happen. They need to wake the hell up and get with the times.

I think you should consider what the church really do and how it treats the different country. In Ireland the emphasis is no longer on contraception as they are fully aware that many people with a bit of though realise that people condtroling birth rates has actually helped the country. So they then moved on to the next thing divorce and now abortion.

In other countries they focus on crontraception as the big evil but not here even though it is used so much here. THe organisation just back what they can in their values not what the religion actually states.

If the church has rules and you don't listen to them them you aren't part of the religion.
If you are catholic you think it is the one and only true religion all others are wrong and as such you believe their followers will not get into heaven.

I think the whole christian be nice, turn the other cheek, god is love etc... has been learnt too well. People that are al a carte can't see the god they think of beeing mean to others who aren't christian. Unfortunately that is not the what the religion they follow belives.

caff

Dont know around newbridge and thereabouts where I got to mass there seems to be quite consistant crowds, pretty wide demographic too. The chursh wont die too soon, pretty good growth in africa and hugely popular in latin america.

finlma

Liam Lough wrote:

Don't jump on the bandwagon because of gob****es like Casey and Cleary

Awful idiots alright - how dare they have sex with a member of the opposite sex :rolleyes:

Religion will die out over the coming centuries when people wake up and realise what a ridiculous concept it is.

dr zoidberg

Kernel wrote:

I think abstainance is a good lesson for the third world. Particularly if you would not have the means to feed any children you may have, and of course there's the rampant spread of the AIDS virus due to promiscuous sex.

I don't think they're any more promiscuous than the average European to be honest. They're going to have lots of kids as long as their country is poor, we should be focussing on developing their economies - then we can start talking about family planning. It's the same in any country, in old Ireland people used to regularly have 7 or more kids in their family, nowadays the average is less than 2 children per household. As the economy develops the birth rate drops. Artificial contraception would make a difference but it's only part of the solution. At least it will reduce the incidence of AIDS, and the Catholic church needs to acknowledge that. It's a question of dying versus obeying religion.

Angels

I think this issue all boils down to abuse. Priests were at it for years getting away with the most digusting abuse you could ever imagine. Since all this has come out about Priests abusing kids, alot of people who were loyal to the church at the time lost interest in the church, some people say how could they have let it gone on for so long.

In my case i don't go to mass & i do feel guilty for not going but when i see a priest i feel disgusted no t don't get me wrong not all Priests abused kids but there were a majority who did abuse. I know my local priest is very nice likes the craic etc, but i just feel like that going to mass is a waste of time with all this going on.

Just cause you dont go to mass doen't mean you don't believe everyone prays in there own time when they feel they need to.

Thats what i think regardless.

Sam Vimes

nlgbbbblth wrote:

A couple living together outside marriage

now that's just silly. casey committed the same "sin" as two people living together, ie sex outside marriage. also, he took a sloemn vow not to do it whereas the couple didn't. also he stole a lot of money. were you joking when you said they're sin was worse?

dr zoidberg wrote:

nowadays the average is less than 2 children per household.

this is true. personally, i have 1.8 children :v:


apparently, the idea of a celebate priest was brought in a few hundred years ago because the church was supplying priests with houses etc, which they were then passing on to their children. the church was losing money so they banned them from having sex, despite the fact that there is no mention of it in the bible (there's no mention of priests either for that matter). also, the higher ups still had children of course

MorningStar

dr zoidberg wrote:

I don't think they're any more promiscuous than the average European to be honest.

Actually I read a report about why aids was so widespread and it came down to a few things
1) Sexual practices that increase infection rates eg. barking
2) Infection through needles , hospitals and not drug usesr
3) Condoms are socially seen as used by dirty people so often not used
4) Some countries have higher sexual promescuity
5) Rape is very common in some countrie
6) Lack of knowledge
7) Availiability of condoms

No particular order and it is a big place and some countires have specific problems with particular issue. The church is certainly not helping the education bit which would solve many of the problems instead they teach their view including lies that say condoms won't protect you. There is something fundementally wrong with supporting a church that lies and activley prevents certain things being distributed.

Stephen

Is the Catholic Church GONE ???

If only, if only.
I don't care what people believe in - if you believe in Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, whatever, good for you. BUT, when you try to push those beliefs on others by any means (such as the way the Catholic church used to pretty much control this country), then you can go and f**k yourself in the ass with a shovel.
This applies to muslims screaming for restrictions on freedom of speech because some cartoons offend them just as much as it applies to creationist f**kwits in the US trying to teach creationism as fact, and any other religious group you care to mention that's trying to influence the lives of other people.

Sleepy

Hobbes wrote:

Is that what you believe?

Distilled to a single sentence, yes. The only logical reasons I can see for a belief in a deity are ignorance of logic (or simple gullability) or a weakness of character that allows you to ignore what common sense would otherwise dictate to you.

Dermington

Kernel wrote:

Grow up, there's nothing weak about having a belief in something. :rolleyes:

you just missed the point entirely....his post meant that weak people will always need support (IE crutches) so the church will always stay...

MorningStar

Sleepy wrote:

Distilled to a single sentence, yes. The only logical reasons I can see for a belief in a deity are ignorance of logic (or simple gullability) or a weakness of character that allows you to ignore what common sense would otherwise dictate to you.

Well what logic can you believe that explains things? Didn't the science world lose 96% of the world in the 70s?

I know what you are saying but it plausable that there are many things yet to be explained. I believe in self responsibility and a general sense of karma. If I end up in hell then I never got it right one way or the other but how bad would it be? It would be full of people like me and I never figured out why the devil would want to torture anybody.

I was at a funeral on Wednesday of a close childhood friend and religions helps many people on such times. Not me but am I the smart one without refuge from grief or were they for having someplace? People have linked suicide rate increase on failing religious cohesion. Maybe ignorance is bliss works!

I think there are more religious people destined for a hell than people who are gay. Anybody involved in the horror houses in the states I think is evil.

Kernel

tintinr35 wrote:

ya because u are really going to stop people having sex.....its human nature. the church needs to promote safe sex not no sex

TIP: "It's human nature" is not going to win any debates. And if the Church promoted safer sex, what makes you think the people who are breaking Church rules by having sex outside marriage are going to follow that rule?

Sleepy wrote:

Well, the only other explanation for ignoring common sense, reason and logic is stupidity so have it as you like: are you stupid? or weak?

I'm neither, thanks very much. But alas, I don't know everything to the nature of human existence, the universe, consciousness and this reality - like you must. Enlighten us, O spiritual Buddha/Sleepy.

Englander wrote:

When I talk to Irish in-laws, they go to church almost out of a sense of guilt. "Eeee, I missed mass on Sunday, I'll have to go today instead". The older members of the family have the mindset of the more they go, the better things will be, the better they are as people.

While I don't disagree with your extensive anthropological study of Irish Catholics, I find many people go to Church once in a while (or every week) to reflect, relax, listen to some spiritual message (maybe leave and think about the lesson of the day) and take their focus away from the capitalist rat-race and quest for ever increasing self-gratification.

dr zoidberg wrote:

I don't think they're any more promiscuous than the average European to be honest. They're going to have lots of kids as long as their country is poor, we should be focussing on developing their economies - then we can start talking about family planning.

I work with and know some guys from Africa, both black and white, and they say that in many countries in Africa, there is serious promiscuity taking place. It's not unusual to have several wives, and to visit prostitutes or have women on the side. I don't want to go too deep into the realm of generalisation, but that is clearly a factor. As regards to developing their economies, why should we be focusing on that? Isn't that what their political leaders are supposed to do? The cards were stacked against Africa with massive loans and trade barriers, but these are in the process of being lifted. Then it's up to them.

dermington wrote:

you just missed the point entirely....his post meant that weak people will always need support (IE crutches) so the church will always stay...

No, I didn't miss his point, his point was to imply that anyone who believes in anything outside of the realm of their own sphere of existence is weak and needs a crutch. That's simply not true.

Even using your twisted logic, why will the Church only exist if weak people need a crutch? Will there be no strong people to keep the Church going? You see?
:cool:

chump

Lorri_L wrote:

I think the Catholic church has just become to strict and outdated to be honest. I tend not to go because I would be bored silly!

Too strict and out-dated. Rubbish. The problem is more likely that they weren't strict enough and didn't try hard enough (or successfully enough) to limit our civil liberties.

The fact that so few of us go is combination of a backlash against "having" to go in our youth and generally not giving a damn.

And look Islam for instance, good thing they aren't too strict or outdated eh?

StupidLikeAFox

Sleepy wrote:

The weak will always need their crutches so I don't see the church ever dying out in Ireland tbh.

Some people would say smoking is a crutch.....