VC Pub Tour. A WARNING!!!

NickyOD

I know some of this was mentioned in a thread already but I'm posting it in a new one anyway because I know a lot of people who read this forum will consider going to these events.

I didn't go to this tournament but I spoke to a lot of people who did and I don't think I've ever been so shocked by such an appauling tournament structure.

It's a €15 with one rebuy.
Starting stack is 2K.
Blinds on level 1 are 100-200. That's right you start off with just 10 blinds so already your only move is all in preflop or fold. Also for some reason there were chips valued at 50 which were never needed.

The blinds douibled every level but I don't know how many minutes the blinds levels where not thatl that really mattters sonce its a self deal tourney.

Rebuys continued until teh 1K/2K level and would you believe it the rebuy was worth 2K in chips. That's right you get 1 Big blinds for your rebuy and from what I heard some poor muppets actually bought it.

There was an overflow of players at the tournament. 112 entries and the rest came to the pokerlounge to play the 25 Freezeout. That tournaemt had 51 players, a starting stack of 7K and lasted 6 and half hours. The average stack even at the final table never went below 10 big blinds. That's a poker tournament. What Victor Chandler ran was bingo.

I am writing an email to VCPoker to invite them to read this thread and explain themselves. I am going to tell everyone I meet who even considers going to this their events not to touch them with a barge pole. Ripping students off is unaccaptable in my view. It creates a horrible image for poker and has far reaching implications for the game and anyone involved in it.

There is a charter at the link below which outlines what is an acceptable tournaemnt for Limerick Players.

http://www.poker.ie/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=41&func=view&id=3712&catid=28

Regards

Nicky O'Donnell.

strewelpeter

No Way! Thats a complete pi$$take

Lafortezza

Hopefully they'll reply to your email and maybe even come on here to give their point of view. So let's all make a big effort to give them a nice warm poker forum welcome.

mewso

I've said it before Victor himself in an interview said he wanted to revolutionise poker. Looks like hes doing it Someone somewhere is revolutionising bingo and making it +EV.

dingle

On their website it gives no information regarding blind structures, payouts etc. They also mentioned somewhere that they charge no reg fee and 100% payout which, according to coillte boy who attended one of these things, was not true.

When I saw on the site that there was no admin fee, 100% payout and as it was being run by a reputable online site then I thought that it might be different from other pub tourneys and that it might be worth going to. I had started organising a few lads from work to go. Thankfully some posters from this site posted feedback and I was saved the embaressment of bringing friends to a game of bingo.

I had planned on moving from PPP to VC because of Neteller access, don't think I will now.

dingle

One silver lining is that it might have introduced a few people to a decent card club like the Poker Lounge, who otherwise might not normally go there

NickyOD

dingle wrote:

On their website it gives no information regarding blind structures, payouts etc. They also mentioned somewhere that they charge no reg fee and 100% payout which, according to coillte boy who attended one of these things, was not true.

When I saw on the site that there was no admin fee, 100% payout and as it was being run by a reputable online site then I thought that it might be different from other pub tourneys and that it might be worth going to. I had started organising a few lads from work to go. Thankfully some posters from this site posted feedback and I was saved the embaressment of bringing friends to a game of bingo.

I had planned on moving from PPP to VC because of Neteller access, don't think I will now.

I believe they pay out is 80% and the other 20% is for the Final which you can "win" a ticket for at one of their all-in fests.

NickyOD

The "Contact Us" interfdace on the pub tour site doesn't work so I had to send the mail to VCPoker support and ask them to forward it to the right people. I have no idea if they will get it. If anyone has a contact for the Irish Pub Tour could they let me know. Thanks.

Dub13

Why would a big company such as VC have anything to do with a Micky mouse operation like this....?

OilBeefHooked2

Dub13 wrote:

Why would a big company such as VC have anything to do with a Micky mouse operation like this....?

My guess is that its keeping in line with the theme of their website i.e most of their tourneys online are speed or turbo. Even their larger gaureented tourneys like the 100k and the 50k have only 15 min and 2000 starting chips when some of their competitors have 20 mins and 3000 starting chips.

NickyOD

Dub13 wrote:

Why would a big company such as VC have anything to do with a Micky mouse operation like this....?

Isn't it obvious? Their target market for their online site are young males aged 18-24 and that's bascially the age range of the players who attend these more affordable pub tournaments. I wouldn't be surprised if they take the participants contact details so they can send them the VCPoker software in the post. That's what they did when they sponsored the Irish poker tour last year. If I was new to poker and started off by attending one of these events I would probably never bother playing poker again.

lemeister

NickyOD wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if they take the participants contact details so they can send them the VCPoker software in the post. That's what they did when they sponsored the Irish poker tour last year.

I was at one of these events last year and after each person was knocked out (a rapid early pace of people being knocked out!) they gave them a goody bag which included a copy of their poker software.

infairness

I went to one of the vcpoker nights in Dublin before Christams and found it to be fine. They are the only poker night I have been at that don't take huge chunks of the prize pool and pocket it for them selves. Game starts at 8 and has to be finished by closing time. hence the name pub poker tour, I think the 6 hour length would not be welcomed by the local Gardai!!!!!! none of the prizemoney is kept by the organisers so I wonder how you can call it a rip off. I guess the players who don't rebuy are ripping off the "muppets" who do but the money is all paid out. Is there any other tournament in the country that has no entry fee and no cut from the pool?

jtsuited

suspicious.
once again we have a first time poster defending a pub tourney. And infairness, i presume from your name that you joined just in order to defend these tournaments. Care to explain? Or is this a coincidence? Are you in any way connected to these tournaments?

Coillte_Bhoy

none of the prizemoney is kept by the organiser

This totally untrue. The lads running the event said they got €120 each from the entries.

I guess the players who don't rebuy are ripping off the "muppets" who do but the money is all paid out

WTF does that mean?

Coupple of other points:

I played one the other night, staring stack was 1,500 with blinds starting at 100/200. Went up every 20 mins. 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 500/1K, 1k/2K etc. Add on was 2K with next level 500/1K. I had a word with one of the organisers about this and the low stack/high blinds and he told me that it wasn't a tournament it was in fact a promotion????

Early on i asked organiser what the story was with rebuys etc. Was told 1 rebuy OR 1 add on yet at the interval they announced everyone could take an add on regardless wheteher they rebough or not.

The whole thing was an absolute joke and while some lads that obviously never played before seemed to enjoy it, the regular hold em players that i knew there were of the one mind that it was a waste of anight. An all in fest if ever there was one.

Only good point was that the winner was my brother, a very good player and the other players in the money all seemd like reasonable players.

NickyOD

Your first post on the forum and your name is "infairness". Lol! . Obviously are you VCPoler. Why else would you want to come out of the woodwork to defend such a shambles?

infairness wrote:

I went to one of the vcpoker nights in Dublin before Christams and found it to be fine. They are the only poker night I have been at that don't take huge chunks of the prize pool and pocket it for them selves.

Really? The only organiser? I think you need to get out more because I can name several. Also how do you know they paid out 100%. Did they announce exactly how many rebuys were taken. Did you actually take the time to add up the figures. They actually only pay out 80%. The other 20% goes to the prizepool for the final. This is not the normal structure for any satelite tournament.

infairness wrote:

Game starts at 8 and has to be finished by closing time. hence the name pub poker tour, I think the 6 hour length would not be welcomed by the local Gardai!!!!!!

More evidence that points to the fact that you are VCPoker. If not What the **** do you care about the Gardai for? You are putting up money to play what is supposed to be a game of skill, but you might as well all just bought raffle tickets. I should think the Gardai would be more worried about the fact that VC are skinning people of €30 in an unfair tournament. I would bring it to their attention but it has reporcussions for other well run tournaments and unfortunately the gardai won't see the difference.

infairness wrote:

none of the prizemoney is kept by the organisers so I wonder how you can call it a rip off.

Completely irrelevent. When you pay money for a tournamnets you expect it to be professionally run with an atleast barable structure. The tournaments don't have properly trained tournament directors. In fact the only real resemblence they have to a poker tournaments is that they have chips and cards. Like I said with this structure you might as well just raffle off the tickets to the final.

infairness wrote:

Is there any other tournament in the country that has no entry fee and no cut from the pool?

Errr... Yeah there is. Several Casinos run freerolls with no reg fee.

Dub13

infairness you should use this pic in your Sig.

infairness

"This totally untrue. The lads running the event said they got €120 each from the entries"

This is totally untrue and the lads told me the payout was as per the claim "All money is paid out" Maybe you mean the money kept for the final? If not get your solicitor on for false advertising claim.

"WTF does that mean?"

How can a tournament that does not keep any money from the pool or charge an entry fee be a rip off?


If you play poker in a pub on a weeknight evening you have to start and finish at a certain time you will never get proper blind levels that you would in a casino game.

Anyway horses for courses and the one I was at was at seemed to have as many first timers as other players. It aint the WSOP.

Dub13

NickyOD wrote:

Isn't it obvious? Their target market for their online site are young males aged 18-24 and that's bascially the age range of the players who attend these more affordable pub tournaments.

I see your point Nicky but how long before these new players kop on that they would be better off doing the lotto (slight exaggeration) and then move to other sites.These kind of tournament's on-line or live are doing nobody any good,least of all the image of poker.

Coillte_Bhoy

I think the 6 hour length would not be welcomed by the local Gardai!!!!!!

The irony of this is that the town i played the tourney in wouldnt exactly be noted for early closing. In fact some of the local players reckoned it was the earliest they had ever started a tourney at (8pm). By closing time most of the locals were heading off to their regular haunt to start a 'right game'

Samba

"infairness" Homer Simpson could excercise more subtlety

Coillte_Bhoy

This is totally untrue and the lads told me the payout was as per the claim "All money is paid out" Maybe you mean the money kept for the final? If not get your solicitor on for false advertising claim.

Poster quite clearly states that organisers do not take a cent from entries, yet the 2 lads quite openly said they got €120 each from the pool. AFAIK there was a €250 shortfall the night i played. I run pub tourneys every night of the week so believe me i can make a fairly accurate stab at the toal pool. Regarding final prize fund there was no mention of this on posters or no mention of it was made before the tourney started.

super_furry

"Nothing is wrong, our tournaments are well run and good value."

infairness

Ah fair enough each to their own!!!

I prefer a proper cash game at home but they don't like us down the boozer doing that.

Was allright for me. Although this seems to be a crime here.


Sorry no scary pics to send to you Dub13.

DeVore

infairness wrote:

I went to one of the vcpoker nights in Dublin before Christams and found it to be fine. They are the only poker night I have been at that don't take huge chunks of the prize pool and pocket it for them selves. Game starts at 8 and has to be finished by closing time. hence the name pub poker tour, I think the 6 hour length would not be welcomed by the local Gardai!!!!!! none of the prizemoney is kept by the organisers so I wonder how you can call it a rip off. I guess the players who don't rebuy are ripping off the "muppets" who do but the money is all paid out. Is there any other tournament in the country that has no entry fee and no cut from the pool?

Answer this question before you post again on my site.

Do you work for these people or have any connection with VC Poker or the company behind this event.


Consider your words carefully especially while this thread rages on Feedback.

DeV.

Coillte_Bhoy

Brilliant.:D

Hitman Actual

infairness wrote:

I went to one of the vcpoker nights in Dublin before Christams and found it to be fine. Blah Blah Blah...

So please tell us your experience of tournament poker. As I've said before, the people who come on here trying to defend shoddy tournaments are either involved with the organisation, or have never played any properly-run games. If you're not involved (unlikely judging by your post), then let us know what other games you've played in. Otherwise you will have absolutely zero credibility and/or respect here, and your arguments will fall on deaf ears.

OilBeefHooked2

super_furry wrote:

"Nothing is wrong, our tournaments are well run and good value."

Lmao

Signed

Infairness:eek:

ianmc38

super_furry wrote:

"Nothing is wrong, our tournaments are well run and good value."

Noice.

NickyOD

infairness wrote:

How can a tournament that does not keep any money from the pool or charge an entry fee be a rip off?

Because it bares no resemblence to a real poker tournament. When you hand over money for something you expect it to meet its discription. Do you think VC are running these out of the goodness of their heart and getting nothing from it?

I know for a fact that VC have now been informed first hand of this thread's existence. Their silence is deafening.

Degag

DeVore wrote:

Answer this question before you post again on my site.

Do you work for these people or have any connection with VC Poker or the company behind this event.


Consider your words carefully especially while this thread rages on Feedback.

DeV.

To be honest it seems like no one here can have a different opinion.... he found the experience good... fair play to him even if the structure didn't seem right. When i came on here to post about the celtic poker tour... i was immediatly denounced from the alter... everyone was convinced that i worked for them.... same for this guy... someone has a different opinion and he must work for the company in question:rolleyes:

jtsuited

tackle 69, the whole point of a forum is healthy discussion. when vested interests are involved and stupidity on this colossal scale is being exhibited, people are not going to say 'ah sure let's just agree to disagree'.
These tournaments are harming poker in a severe way and therefore are of great concern to us as poker players.
Therefore when some muppet suspiciously posts and doesn't answer relevant questions asked to her/him, things get quite heated. Understandably.
And i suggest you learn how to use proper punctuation and not three or four fullstops!
.....Really annoying...

Degag

jtsuited wrote:

tackle 69, the whole point of a forum is healthy discussion. when vested interests are involved and stupidity on this colossal scale is being exhibited, people are not going to say 'ah sure let's just agree to disagree'.
These tournaments are harming poker in a severe way and therefore are of great concern to us as poker players.
Therefore when some muppet suspiciously posts and doesn't answer relevant questions asked to her/him, things get quite heated. Understandably.
And i suggest you learn how to use proper punctuation and not three or four fullstops!
.....Really annoying...

Don't worry, i know how to use punctuation. As a member of many different boards you're the first to find it annoying. Interesting. Irember when i answered all relevant questions that were put to me in relation to the Celtic Poker Tour and yet that didn't stop people accusing me of working for them. It wouldn't matter if he refuted ye're claims. There would still be doubters.

Coillte_Bhoy

It wouldn't matter if he refuted ye're claims. There would still be doubters.

I played this event. If he enjoys these then good luck to him but as far as refuting my claims about prize pool being plundered i fail to see how he has. I suggest you read the full thread. Mind you if you have defended CPT in the past then i dont know why im bothering to reply to you:rolleyes:

DeVore

Tackle, I've asked for a clear statement of full disclosure. As the owner of this site I think I'm entitled to an answer if someone is using it for fake promotion and misleading our users. People are entitled to support a tournie if they wish, just as people are entitled to voice detractions and doubts.

I'd like an answer to my question.

DeV

5starpool

Tackle69 wrote:

To be honest it seems like no one here can have a different opinion.... he found the experience good... fair play to him even if the structure didn't seem right. When i came on here to post about the celtic poker tour... i was immediatly denounced from the alter... everyone was convinced that i worked for them.... same for this guy... someone has a different opinion and he must work for the company in question:rolleyes:

Burn him!!!!!!!

Degag

Coillte_Bhoy wrote:

I played this event. If he enjoys these then good luck to him but as far as refuting my claims about prize pool being plundered i fail to see how he has. I suggest you read the full thread. Mind you if you have defended CPT in the past then i dont know why im bothering to reply to you:rolleyes:

Aye, the scum of the earth eh?:rolleyes:

I suggest you read the comments i made on the cpt before passing judgement.

Culchie

Tackle69 wrote:

To be honest it seems like no one here can have a different opinion.... he found the experience good... fair play to him even if the structure didn't seem right. When i came on here to post about the celtic poker tour... i was immediatly denounced from the alter... everyone was convinced that i worked for them.... same for this guy... someone has a different opinion and he must work for the company in question:rolleyes:

Tackle, everybody is entitled to their opinion, I'm all for that.

But your argument/stance in defending tournaments such as these VC tourneys, or the 40% rake from Celtic Poker Tours, is very similar to a Doctor saying "Smoking is good for your health, and you should all try it before making your mind up, never mind all that research rubbish"

It flies in the face of medical science so to speak, as does your defence of these tournaments, and at the end of the day, you lose credibility as a result then yourself.

Trust me, I can be an opinionated little so and so from time to time, but I like to be standing on solid ground when I start swinging punches.

Degag

Culchie wrote:

Tackle, everybody is entitled to their opinion, I'm all for that.

But your argument/stance in defending tournaments such as these VC tourneys, or the 40% rake from Celtic Poker Tours, is very similar to a Doctor saying "Smoking is good for your health, and you should all try it before making your mind up, never mind all that research rubbish"

It flies in the face of medical science so to speak, as does your defence of these tournaments, and at the end of the day, you lose credibility as a result then yourself.

Trust me, I can be an opinionated little so and so from time to time, but I like to be standing on solid ground when I start swinging punches.

What people don't remember is that i was also critical of the cpt... i criticised the blind structures and the rake which i agreed was excessive in cases where there were many people playing in a tournament... However i disagreed with people who said that the rake should be almost non - existant. Its unfortunate but in the business world there are business costs, big ones most of the time, which unfortunatly have to passed on to the custumer.... its a fact of life... This applies to supermarkets, bookshops, hardware stores and poker tournaments alike. For the record i disagree with the structure of the vc pub tour, but i also disagree with the way this guy was vilified for stating his opinion here.

Hitman Actual

Tackle69 wrote:

However i disagreed with people who said that the rake should be almost non - existant.

I cant remember anybody ever asking that rake should be "almost non-existant". All anybody wants, at least those with any idea of how a decent tournament should be run, is that the rake be transparent.

Tackle69 wrote:

i also disagree with the way this guy was vilified for stating his opinion here.

Where exactly was he vilified? A very strong word, I think. He was asked two basic questions:

1. Is he involved with VC.
2. Has he any experience of a properly-run tournament.

DeVore

Neither of which he has answered. I think we/I should take this to VC for comment. I want to know if we are being shilled.

DeV.

ianmc38

DeVore wrote:

Neither of which he has answered. I think we/I should take this to VC for comment. I want to know if we are being shilled.

DeV.

I don't think there's any doubt that it was a VC reply.

5starpool

ianmc38 wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that it was a VC reply.

That is not necessarily true. I am inclined to agree that it is quite possible, even probable, but what about inoccent until proven otherwise etc etc?

This isn't a witch hunt.

okidoki987

infairness
Registered User
Last Activity: Today 09:56

Why didn't he didn't reply back when he was online this morning

Samba

/puts his sharpened pitchfork back into the garden shed

Imposter

5starpool wrote:

This isn't a witch hunt.

but but it's been ages since we had a good one

OilBeefHooked2

okidoki987 wrote:

Why didn't he didn't reply back when he was online this morning

infairness hes probably a bit shy and shaken by some of the replys.

infairness noone is having a go at you personally.You should come back and clarify your position.

5starpool

Imposter wrote:

but but it's been ages since we had a good one

Ah the days of good ol Texas Nights. Misty eyes just thinking about it.

super_furry

5starpool wrote:

Ah the days of good ol Texas Nights. Misty eyes just thinking about it.

They're still going - held a night in my local last Monday. Suffice to say I stayed away but a fair few locals turned up and claimed to have enjoyed it. Sad to see that there's still a market for them.

NickyOD

Response from VCPoker.

**********************************************************
Hi Nicky,
I would like to apologies that you had such a bad experience the other night. I fully understand your grievances and as you will see we are taking appropriate action. That was our 38th tournament to run this year and the only one so far that we have received such negative feedback.



I have been in touch with both the tournament organisers and the staff in question and a full investigation is under way as to how things went wrong.

A preliminary result has shown me the following.

1) This was the busiest night we have ever had for one of these nights. The biggest turnout we had in the previous 37 nights we ran was 80. Therefore we never had to turn people away before and never had as many runners.

2) The staff have said to me that they were completely overwhelmed at the registration desk and in observing who got rebuys and who got top ups. Hence they decided to ignore the rules and let everyone top up if they chose to do so. (A mistake obviously)

3) The blind structure should of started at 50 100 as it has done on the previous 37 nights but again the guys skipped the first round due to the amount of people playing (Clearly a big mistake as you noted)

4) I am still investigating certain comments staff made to players.




We are taking the following actions as a result of this night and indeed your comments.


1) From now on there will be another member of staff for registration and for top ups.
2) The appropriate action will be taken with regards to comments made to players by any member of staff.
3) The blind structure will continue to start at 50 100.
4) Rebuys will only continue for first 3 rounds. Rebuys were only introduced since End of January due to public demand. Their structure was obviously wrong.



We would like to extend these games and run them over a longer period of time but what we have found is that the game generally does not start until 8pm and we have to have the game finished by closing time. Indeed some publicans might not mind if we stayed but in general we have to be finished by 11:30. This of course leads to a blind structure that ensures we are finished in time. Ideally we would run the tournament over 8 hours for a 100 plus tournament but we simply do not have the time.

To be honest the feedback we have had outside of the night in Limerick has been very positive with both publicans and players happy with the event.



I would like to apologies again that you did not enjoy yourself the other night and I hope the improvements we put in place will address most of your comments.

Finally I would like to categorically state that absolutely no money is retained by VC in any of these tournaments. Every penny will be paid out. With 20% of the 100 satellites pool going to the grand final in April.




Best Regards

Chris Poole


Victor Chandler Ireland

Ste05

Fair play to them for responding, they could have just put their head in the sand. It's also refreshing to hear someone accepting that they made mistakes and how they intend to rectify them. Wp Nicky