Dartmouth Square "purchase"

Bill McH

The Irish Times, Today wrote:

Owner's car park plan for south Dublin square
By Olivia Kelly

The owner of Dartmouth Square park in south Dublin, which has been at the centre of controversy since it was shut to the public last January, intends to turn the land into a car park, The Irish Times has learned.

An Bord Pleanála will tomorrow hear from Dublin City Council why it believes that the park in Ranelagh should be returned to public ownership. The council is seeking to compulsorily purchase the park from businessman Noel O'Gara, of Ballinahowen, Athlone, who recently acquired the freehold on the land.
The park came to public attention last January when local residents, who believed it was a public park, found that the gates had been padlocked shut. At the same time, the city council received a letter from Mr O'Gara claiming that he owned the freehold.

Residents removed the chains from the gates, but these were replaced by Mr O'Gara within days. The council subsequently reopened the park and entered into negotiations with Mr O'Gara on making the space available to the public again. These talks were unsuccessful and the council elected last February to place a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) on the land.

Mr O'Gara said that his company, Marble and Granite Tiles Ltd, had purchased the park late last year "for a bargain price" from Patrick Darley. He objected to An Bord Pleanála against the CPO last April. His objection necessitates the oral hearing tomorrow. In his objection, Mr O'Gara submitted that the CPO was "unconstitutional, unjustified and a flagrant abuse of the legal process".
Local residents were already well catered for in terms of public amenities and a car park and creche planned for the space would be of greater benefit to the population of the city, he said.

The park was originally laid out by the Darley estate when Dartmouth Square was being developed in the 1880s. It fell into decline in last century and was renovated by the council (then Dublin Corporation) in 1987. The council entered into a 10-year lease on the land with the Darley estate, but although it did not renew the lease in 1997, it continued to maintain the park.

It might make sense to put a car park under the park, leaving the park eventually intact. But do we need less green space in the city?

Diaspora

The Council acquired a muddy field in 1987 and carried out substantial improvements to the property which are of a very high architectural standard the future of which should be assessed immediately in terms of the design quality that they add to this most sensitive historic area.

lostexpectation

Could the council end up buying this at market rates rather then CPO ( or inflated rates to please this guy), what is it zoned for? If they zone such small pieces of land?

Victor

lostexpectation wrote:

Could the council end up buying this at market rates rather then CPO ( or inflated rates to please this guy), what is it zoned for? If they zone such small pieces of land?

I understand it is zoned open space.

lostexpectation

yeah so the market price wouldn't be so high, there was a piece in teh parer today about it, im a bit confused now about whether is it going before BP for zone change or planning permission for a car park and creche or for who actually owns it.

Victor

Update

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0726/ranelagh.html

Dublin City Council opposes park development
26 July 2006 22:16

An Bord Pleanála has begun hearing an appeal against a compulsory purchase order of a two-acre square in Ranelagh in Dublin.

The square was bought by businessman, Noel O'Gara, last December.

In January, Mr O'Gara locked access to the square that had previously been used by the public. He is now seeking to develop an underground car park, a creche and gym on the site.

Dublin City Council is in turn trying to compulsorily purchase the land from Mr O'Gara.

Giving evidence to the planning appeals board this morning, Geraldine O'Mahony, a senior executive planner with the council, said the area had been zoned so that recreational space should be protected. She said the southeast area of the city had less open space than other areas.

She described the square as of notable character and surrounded by protected houses. She added that any new building, including a creche or car park, would not be appropriate.

Opposing the order, Mr O'Gara said the square was private property and was never public. He claimed that Dublin City Council was using 'big brother muscle' to steal the land from him.

Mr O'Gara said a car park on the site could provide parking for up to 600 cars in an area near the city centre that had inadequate parking.

He also claimed that the development would be in keeping with the current zoning of the land as it would include sporting facilities like a gym, as well as a creche and tea-rooms.

lostexpectation

there is constant reference to this place as leafy and rich, isn't this area as nice as it part of 'flatland', I don't know are the houses around mostly split up into apratments, and around the area there plenty of both and crap flats.

DadaKopf

It used to be flatland, but that's the minority now. The neighbourhood is now largely made up of older residents (before the boom) and blow-ins who have loads and loads of money.

The funniest thing about the coverage on RTE news was the oul' fella from the residents' association (some of whom actually wanted to turn the square into a carpark in the 1970s/80s) saying how the park isn't an amenity for the square residents, it's for the whole area. Damn straight. Except anyone living off the square (even across the road) don't get any invites, information about the 'campaign' or anything. And sticking that oul' fella on the news... man.

gobdaw

DadaKopf wrote:

The funniest thing about the coverage on RTE news was the oul' fella from the residents' association .......... And sticking that oul' fella on the news... man.

Was that not Prof Kevin B Nowlan of Taisce and Irish Georgian Society fame? I f so, I don't know if he lives locally to Dartmouth Square. I suspect that he may have been there as an expert witness or such like.

Anyway, down with ageism!

indiewindy

http://www.yorkshireripper.co.uk/hyper/002.htm

Heres a biog of Mr. O'Gara!!!

DadaKopf

gobdaw wrote:

Was that not Prof Kevin B Nowlan of Taisce and Irish Georgian Society fame? I f so, I don't know if he lives locally to Dartmouth Square. I suspect that he may have been there as an expert witness or such like.

Anyway, down with ageism!

Yeah, looked like him and all. ResAssoc probably axed him to speak for them. Not sure if he's local.

I'm personally annoyed at the lack inclusion by the Square residents versus the surrounding area - including offices.

Mad Finn

DadaKopf wrote:

I'm personally annoyed at the lack inclusion by the Square residents versus the surrounding area - including offices.

Is that deliberate or just negligence? Maybe if they knew other people across the city (I'm not a local either) would be only too willing to support them--peacefully--they would be more vociferous.

Diaspora

I agree they have acted in a very low key way in terms of media output but in fairness the three councillors for the area are Dermot Lacey who along with the entire Labour Block particularly Michael Bewleys Connaghan are very strong on heritage as well as Wendy Hederman whose mother Carmencita has a strong track record with organisations such as An Taisce and the Irish Georgian Society (never understood why the daughter went to the dark side)

Hopefully we can watch from the sidelines and pursue other unrelated issues without getting directly involved; it is however a shocking thing that DCC have had to incur such expense to defend a muddy patch that is only a fine park because of investments made 19 years ago

Mad Finn

Diaspora wrote:

Hopefully we can watch from the sidelines and pursue other unrelated issues without getting directly involved;

Watch from the sidelines, my arse. Have you seen what this little bollox has done now? Painted double yellow lines all around the square and started moving cars on to the grass and charging 10 euro a day to let people park there.

Any Dubliner who values their city as a place in which they want to live should have no tolerance for this odious little gombeen man and his determination to ruin the quality of life of people in a pleasant little part of town.

This is NOT just a city people commute to from miles away, it's a city that people actually live in and who are entitled to a quality of life that is not subject to the requirements of day visitors from the country side. Anybody who cares at all about the quality of life in Dublin should be supporting the Dartmouth Square residents in their fight against this despicable little man.

Get up to the square tomorrow and give them a hand.

constitutionus

ha ha ha ha. i think this is brilliant, for all the flack your mans getting all he did was capitalise on the incompentance of the council. they let the lease lapse, none of the residents, who could well afford 6grand, bothered their corpulant asses to investigate the issue or buy the land themselves. and now they're paying the price!

fair play to your man, i hope he fleeces that lot for as much as he can get.

this isnt about quality of life or park spaces in dublin, its sour grapes. pure and simple

sides, how often do you see micheal macdowel leg it when someone touches his shoulder?

*edit. by the way, shouldnt this be in the dublin forum? its hardly a political matter ala berties blank cheques.

Mad Finn

constitutionus wrote:

ha ha ha ha. i think this is brilliant, for all the flack your mans getting all he did was capitalise on the incompentance of the council.

Yeah to the detriment of the locals. Not to mention the precedent that will be set if he gets away with it.

constitutionus wrote:

they let the lease lapse, none of the residents, who could well afford 6grand, bothered their corpulant asses to investigate the issue or buy the land themselves. and now they're paying the price!

I agree somebody at the council screwed up. But the residents probably didn't know. (I'm not a resident) Who tipped him off that's what I would like to know? But why should he get away with screwing up such a beautiful part of town? It's not just about the residents.

constitutionus wrote:

fair play to your man, i hope he fleeces that lot for as much as he can get.

this isnt about quality of life or park spaces in dublin, its sour grapes. pure and simple

I despise your attitude. We get the sort of cities we deserve and at the end of the day with attitudes such as you have expressed there is little hope for the development of towns that are actually pleasant to live in.

If you want to buy O'Gara's bull**** that this is all about sticking it to the 'wealthy' and that he is some sort of working class hero then God help us. If he can get away with doing something like that to Dartmouth Square what hope would any working class estate have of getting any sort of green space amenity?

On your last point, this is not just a Dublin issue. As an earlier poster has pointed out, some fecker managed to steal a piece of a public park in Limerick to build a block of flats in. The tolerance we allow to 'cute hoors' with no respect for regulations intended to provide a pleasant environment for all is a national political issue.

rlogue

I saw the Dartmouth Square item on the 9 O'Clock news last night - Noel O'Gara came across in that report as an aggressive bully. He barked "are you intimidating me?" at the RTE reporter and gave plenty of verbal abuse to a local pol. as well.

Thankfully it appeared that few drivers took up his offer of a €10 parking space - and O'Gara's actions strike me as pure Gombeenism of the highest order. :mad:

Adds: John Gormley TD has photos of yesterday's confrontation with Noel O'Gara on his website here: http://www.johngormley.com/wp/v/2006-09-04-Dartmouth-Square/

Mad Finn

Well I just took a stroll up there during my lunch break. Some very nice people picketing the gates and a couple of heavies who look like they are refugees from the Dublin City Ramblers standing outside with a huge placard announcing 'Free Parking' at the gate.

Glad to say that business does not appear to be brisk. There are only three vehicles inside and they seem to be the same three that Mr O'Gara and his 'friends' managed to sneak in there before sun-up yesterday.

(Not a man of many friends, it would seem.)

It's such a beautiful square. What sort of bowsie would want to turn it into a car park?

nicelives

I think Dublin City Council got the shock of their lives that someone was prepared to stand up to their bully boy tactics. They should pay Mr O'Gara for the four properties they CP'd from him over the last ten years and they might have some of the high priced moral ground they claim to have.

Mad Finn

IF Mr O'Gara has issues with non payment of monies from Dublin City Council that's one thing. But it doesn't give him the right to screw up a nice part of the city in revenge.

If he can afford to pay a couple of heavies to advertise free parking outside Dartmouth Square, he can afford to hire some solicitors to recoup any money that is rightfully his. (If indeed that is the case.) He would almost certainly recoup the cost of hiring those solicitors too. So why doesn't he go ahead and do that?

What has this got to do with the destruction of a beautful piece of openly accessible green space in Dublin? Have you no civic pride at all? Or are you so begrudging that you think that South Dublin residents deserve to have their traditional environment destroyed to satisfy the whims of a crackpot?

rlogue

If he's had four properties CPO'd by the Corpo then I would suggest that either he is particularly unlucky in his choice of property or that perhaps he is the sort of person who sniffs around properties that may be CPO'd at some point and then holds out for lots of compo?

sovtek

rlogue wrote:

Thankfully it appeared that few drivers took up his offer of a €10 parking space - and O'Gara's actions strike me as pure Gombeenism of the highest order. :mad:

Sorry but what is Gombeenism? Honest question

Mad Finn

A Gombeen man is an unscrupulous wheeler dealer, somebody on the make who contributes little of value and generally sucks the blood out of the local populace.

As this entry points out, gombeen men were usually of the same class and creed as their victims. This wretch O'Gara is portraying himself as a 'man of the people' when in reality all he wants to do is screw as much cash out of the Council by underhand means. And if he buggers up one of the nicest areas of Dublin (physically speaking) in so doing, he will feel himself perfectly justified.

Pray he never gets hold of some Old Master's painting. If he got his hands on Vermeer''s 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' he would probably draw a great big pair of tits on it.

Tasteless yob!!

oscarBravo

Mad Finn, I understand that this is a topic that's exercising you personally, but I'll ask you to tone down your language, in particular towards other posters on this board.

RedPlanet

I dunno, when he made that comment about the local residents just looking for a green space to let their pets crap...well, that's got my attention.

on Google Earth, that Square appears rather inconsequential.

fly_agaric

constitutionus wrote:

fair play to your man, i hope he fleeces that lot for as much as he can get.
this isnt about quality of life or park spaces in dublin, its sour grapes. pure and simple

Oh dear oh dear...

That was funny.

sovtek

Mad Finn wrote:

A Gombeen man is an unscrupulous wheeler dealer, somebody on the make who contributes little of value and generally sucks the blood out of the local populace.

As this entry points out, gombeen men were usually of the same class and creed as their victims. This wretch O'Gara is portraying himself as a 'man of the people' when in reality all he wants to do is screw as much cash out of the Council by underhand means. And if he buggers up one of the nicest areas of Dublin (physically speaking) in so doing, he will feel himself perfectly justified.

Pray he never gets hold of some Old Master's painting. If he got his hands on Vermeer''s 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' he would probably draw a great big pair of tits on it.

Tasteless yob!!

Sounds like my old landlord.

mike65

O'Gara was on Todays FMs Last Word and came across as a complete "gouger", he has no planning permission, he has no public liability insurance, he has no interest in providing a workable car park either - all thats about is proving the site has commercial value and so buying him some greater leverage as regards the value of a CPO.

I had to laugh as O'Gara invoked spirt of 1916 "we fought for the right to own our own land!" I dont think he's that old.

Dublin City Council better update this

Indymedias readership don't know how to react - should they say "g'wan stick it to the middle-class scum" or down with grimy speculation.

Breaking News from rte

The High Court has ordered that Dartmouth Square in Ranelagh in south Dublin should not be used as a car park.

Dublin City Council took court proceedings after the owners of the park, Noel O'Gara and his company, Marble and Granite Tiles Ltd, refused to give an undertaking to stop using the square as a car park.

The barrister for the city council, Ms Carol O'Farrell, said using the square as a car park was a material change of use and needed planning permission.

Mr O'Gara told the court he could invite anyone he wanted on to the land.

There will be a full hearing of the case next Monday

Mike.

Mad Finn

And the latest round goes to common sense He can't use it as a car park until the court case is heard.

mike65 wrote:

O'Gara was on Todays FMs Last ord and came across as a complete "gouger", he has no planning permission, he has no public liablity insurance, he has no interest in providing a workable car park either - all thats about is proving the site has commercial value and so buying him some greater leverage as regards the value of a CPO.

I had to laugh as O'Gara invoked spirt of 1916 "we fought for the right to own our own land!" I dont think he's that old.

Mike.

See the earlier post about gombeen men. Trying to pretend this is what 1916 was all about and that he's the true independent spirit of the Nation. It's almost enough to convince me that Kevin Myers might be right.

Nah. Scratch that thought.

In truth, this guy O'Gara has more in common with the very worst of landlordism.

Wealth without duties.
Power without responsibilities.
Property rights are the only rights worth a damn.

What he's saying is that however he came to own this property he has absolute rights over it, he can do what he likes with it, he can prevent who he wants from accessing it, he can build what he likes on it, he has no duties or responsibilities to any people with traditional rights of access or to any neighbours who might be affected by what he's doing to the square.

Sounds just like a stereotypical 19th century landlord to me.

Here's the irony. It was the wealthy estate who originally owned the square who first made it available as a public amenity. But let an Irish gombeen man in charge of it and it becomes just another bloody car park.

The shame of it.

robertjordan

would anyone like his postal address?, if you feel like writing to him