How to bench press for results

Transform

Just a quick one

Was amazed last night in gym to see how many guys (you can see the ego just dripping off their rugby shoulders!) continually bench press (bar bell) with a weight that is wayyyyy over their current abiliity and

DO NOT TOUCH THEIR CHEST WITH THE BAR!!!

All that posturing and lifting yet incorrect technique as they are afraid they will not get it up if they actually touched their chest with the moulded muscle building metal.

So guys lower your weight and touch it off your chest (i know there are times in certain programs when this is not done however it does not apply to the 16-20yr old guy).

Final rant - they are all looking to build size by shopping for protein supplements, creatine etc yet i have yet to see ANY of them squat or deadlift (again properly) anything remotely over 60kg.

Thanks for that i feel much better now so will go and file down my calluses from deadlifting now!

Dragan

I know exactly what you mean. Over the last four weeks i have come within inches of just telling people to STOP out of fear for the lives, the form was so bad.

Situation One was two young lads, deadlifting 3 and a half wheels a side. They were lucky to get it for one but there back was bent like a goddamn banana , all i could see was one of them ending up in hospital or messed up for a long time! Solution , let gym instructor know and watch them bleach and run!

Siuation Two was two different young guys squatting. They only had two wheels a side, but they couldn't even get quarter squats, couldn't hold the bar on there shoulders properly and couldn't balance it. To make it worse they were in a squat rack but didn't even have the bars in place. For christ sake kids thats what they are for!!!!! I didn't need to do anything here as one of the regulars got to it before i could , place the safety bars for them and told them if they couldn't touch there calves with there ass it wasn't a squat. He then worked in with them, did the same weight as they did and a few sets later they were knocking out reps with smaller weigths granted, but the form was perfect!

Form first folks, if your doing things right the weights will take care of themselves.

joejoem

I stop with the bar about an inch from my chest.

I find it hard to check my form for squating, as I get to the higher weighted sets (i do 25, 20, 15, 10) my legs start to quiver and on some downs my form starts to wobble a bit. I'm only squatting two weeks since my gym didnt have the equipment but I havent felt any pain or discomfort (apart from my legs two days later when I try to climb stairs!) How do you monitor your form? Do you just use the mirror or ask someone to look for you?

And do you do ass to grass or do you stop when your ass passes your knee height?

Dragan

Once you keeping your arch in your back, you back as upright as possible and keep your feet firmly planted, also try and look slightly up and ahead, keeping you head up at all times.

As for me, i'm into deep squats, ass to grass style.

joejoem

Dragan wrote:

As for me, i'm into deep squats, ass to grass style.

Does this have any ill-effect on your knees? Even if preformed properly, doesnt it leave your knees a little vunerable after you have gone below knee height?


Personally, I hate the f*ckers, I love the strenth you feel in your back afterwards though.

Dragan

Nope, i never feel anything in my knees, and i have pretty bad knees to be honest. Anyway, it was recently shown that the whole "keep your knees behind your feet" thing that people used to talk about in the past just adds to the tension on the knees, and by letting them move out as they need to the stress is extremely less.

I do down as low as i can to bring in as much Ham as possible, as right now these need a lot more work than my quads.

Deep squads, heavy deadlifts and some stiff legs are working wonders.

It's all about the GH.

g'em

Dragan wrote:

Deep squads, heavy deadlifts and some stiff legs are working wonders.

It's all about the GH.

God who needs steroids with al the testosterone floating around this place??!?!?!?!

Have to agree though, on all points. The rugby team in my gym are a particular thorn in my side when I'm training first thing in the morning. Its all I can do not to stop them mid-session- their coach's athletic history is in long-distance running for flip's sake, and pretty much stands around giving them 'tips' for ligfting. Besides, there's no way they'd take any heed of anything I say, being a girl and all..

Not spotting eachother, bad form, not using benches properly (uh, when you incline the back please make sure you incline the seat too) and then of course the ritualistic standing around chatting mid-set checking out the asses on show. They seem like nice guys, but their guidance is sh*te.

And while we're on squats... damn but my legs are sore today. Kicking out 4 sets of 15 reps on moderate weights for front and back squats- if I don 't have perfect pins by summer I will not be a happy bunny

Dragan

The gear is for losers. The body gives you everything you need to get big, if it can't make more then c'est la vie.

temp_boards

g'em wrote:

and then of course the ritualistic standing around chatting mid-set checking out the asses on show.

Ahhh to be in a gym with nice ass's on show

g'em wrote:

And while we're on squats... damn but my legs are sore today. Kicking out 4 sets of 15 reps on moderate weights for front and back squats- if I don 't have perfect pins by summer I will not be a happy bunny

My legs are killing me today too, but what do you mean Front and back squats?

Dragan wrote:

It's all about the GH.

The What?

Dragan

Back squats are the more common ones, done with the bar resting on the shoulders and traps, front squats are a bitch to balance and are done with less weight and with the bar balance on the front delt, you kind have your arms up up front of you..... imagine touching each shoulder with the opposite hand style of thing.

And GH is Growth Hormone, produced naturally within the body this is largely what makes you grow. Heavy lifts like squats and deads can stimulate extra growth hormone production.

Cravez

temp_boards wrote:

My legs are killing me today too, but what do you mean Front and back squats?

Back Squat: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Barbell+Full+Squat

Front Squat: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Front+Barbell+Squat

g'em

Dragan wrote:

Back squats are the more common ones, done with the bar resting on the shoulders and traps, front squats are a bitch to balance and are done with less weight and with the bar balance on the front delt, you kind have your arms up up front of you..... imagine touching each shoulder with the opposite hand style of thing.

And GH is Growth Hormone, produced naturally within the body this is largely what makes you grow. Heavy lifts like squats and deads can stimulate extra growth hormone production.

ah, so it's like that today is it? stealing all my thunder again eh? right well fine.

yes temp_boards to answer your questions, those are the answers . I do front squats and back squats to hit different areas of the legs. Both are compounds exercises anyway and so are great all over workouts, but for front squats, like Dragan said, you cross you arms over and hold them out in front of you at a 90 degree angle from your body and balance the bar on the shoulders. I keep my feet relatively close together, toes facing front so it will hit the outer quads. The for back (or normal) squats my feet are wider, about shoulder width apart or more and toes turned outwards to hit inner quads and thigh. And of course, for both its ass right down.

And after all that I generally collapse on the floor until one of my training friends ikcks me up the arse and I go and do lunges.

temp_boards

Nice one thanks. Yeah after a good squatting set I put the bar down and walk away in pain. You know like when you kick your toe of a table or something and you run around for a minute going "ooh ahhh oohh ahhh ohhh ohhh oohhhhhhhhhhh!"


Ok the last oohhhhhhhhh was an exageration but you know what I mean!

cousin_borat

Cindy_love posted a link to this set of videos by Milos Sarcev. Among them the Chest exercises involving flat, incline and decline Benches on this video are fantastic. They explain the need to stimulate the chest fibres while benching rather than doing a large weight and involving the deltoids, etc.

The two main points I took from the videos are
1) Perform bench press extra slow to REALLY concentrate on the exercise and get full movement, as Milos says "Mind Body Connection"
2) Squeeze the chest muscles when pushing the bar back up, don't power the bar back up. Try and feel the squeezing the of muscles pushing the bar back up.

Jak

Yah Transform it is a shame when people train with poor form, but as long as it isn't reckless I have stopped caring. Most people are temporary trainers anyway and as long as they don't interfere with my session I'm happy.

Recently I have shifted sizeable sections of my sessions to constant tension and controlled negative movements and have been very happy with the results. However, I do not make permanent shifts in my training. I still mix in out and out power training, partial lifts, supersets, failure dropsets and so on. The key is variety and for those who would think they have found the 'way' - in my view they would simply be wrong. Sometimes I will be going mostly heavy as explosive/fast as I can - other times I will be doing slow partials. Not a response to your post Transform, but a good rule I find before critiquing anothers form is their build - if they look in far better shape than you - maybe you should not judge so quickly.

I have long been an advocate of 'individualised' training for lack of a better expression. Essentially i believe that most excersises can be tweaked mid-set to be made more difficult by anyone with a bit of experience. I will often do this as I can feel quite clearly what is working the area I am hitting. An onlooker may consider this poor form, but frankly I've been training for 10 years and as long as my build/strength backs me up, who cares?

I think therein lies the problem - People copying things they see and taking elements of a varied routine out of context. This again falls back to the poor knowledge of most (we lost all of ours Transform! ) gym instructors with regard to weight training. They should hire a 'non-fitness' person and have them patrol to give advice in my view.

Either way, that's my take on it.

JAK.

Jak

On the "too heavy weight" thing also...

Whilst this can be true for most - if you want to make serious gains in power, I believe you need to be overloading yourself at some point in the training. I frequently will try low rep sets of a weight I know is above me, but I have experienced spotters. Overloading in this fashion develops muscle and as importantly develops confidence in attempting certain weights. Sequences of these sorts of sessions have always seen me make faster 1rm lift gains.

I add this on because I worry when reading some posts that people will misinterpret and think "oh anyone who goes heavier than they can lift is an idiot". If you are new to the gym and your friend is on the phone - don't do it. But for the handful of serious but inexperienced trainers - don't discount it - It has an important place in strength training.

JAK.

temp_boards

How would you recomend increasing bench press Jak?

Currently I do one night for chest and shoulders

For chest I do Press 15, 12, 10, 8 with 20k,30k,40k,40k respectivley

I do incline DB chest press 8,8,6,6 with 50,50,60,60lbs

incline Db spread (cant think of word,) 15, 12, 10, 8 with 30,35,40,45lbs

Then finish with cable cross overs. How could I increase my bench press, its piss poor for my size. I'm 6'6", broad, 95kilos. Looking to bulk up chest but also would like to get up to a 100kilo chest press by the summer.

Dragan

temp_boards wrote:

Looking to bulk up chest but also would like to get up to a 100kilo chest press by the summer.

It's been covered millions, but dumbells are they way to go. Also do slow and heavy negatives with a spotter. Superset benching with pushups sometimes.

Just shock the muscle. Finally, stop testing your 1RM so much.

Jak

Hi Temp,

That's quite poor for your size alright, but taller thinner long-armed people will have an extended range of motion over the shorter barrel shaped lifters - so you may have to work a little harder. Some people will wax on about proportions and all being equal - but basically as with almost all sports some builds are better suited.

Also I would never train shoulders with chest. Keep those two as far apart as possible.

There's no simple answer to your question. But I can suggest a few things ...

1. Educate yourself. Not on this board - but search the web for excersises (not routines). Build up a catalogue of what can be done and then filter it by what can be done in your gym. One of the biggest advantages a trainer can have is simply knowledge of the options for training a muscle. Always keep a log book and record each session. Include the excersise - reps - weight and even add comments in the margin. Also keep day, time in - time out - weight. I have these going back 10 years - they are fantastic to have.

Olympic flat bench

12x90kg 8x110kg ..... etc. * next time up weight to 95kg on 1st set and decrease margin for 2nd set ** pain in right shoulder

Develop a routine split for yourself and then just interchange things for variety. My chest session on a saturday has had up to 32 sets - but I feel I know how to pace and structure things to get a full chest session. In either case your program looks a little short and basic. Research some variation. Have Flat bench as the mainstay then perhaps move through quicker auxillary excersises. If you want a heavy lift - you should try some negatives and also progress to low rep sets 5, 5, 3, 3.

Another good approach is to have weight move up and down through sets. i.e warm up then ... 80kgx 10 130kg x 4 90kg x10 150kg x 3 100kg x 8... I have found these kinds of alteration can help with the low rep heavier lifts in the sequence.

2. Diet diet diet. I haven't taken supplements in a year now but they certainly helped me break certain weight plateaus. Aside from proper nutrition I only ever found protein and creatine (in that order) to be genuinely effective. Nowadays I simply follow the "eat everything I need" and "whatever I want" to top it up. Make a few simple choices in diet (plenty of topics on the forum for this) and bring them in. Forget the minute details and the "eat this 15minutes before a session" crap. It makes a difference on the margins for serious trainers - most people should just focus on the basics. Make it easy by shopping for better snacks.

3. Get a training partner or ask someone to spot you for some work. Training solo if trying to raise your max is futile or dangerous. A buddy system will let you push yourself far more and give you the confidence to try more. Many people make a big jump just by knowing someone will cover them if they try to give it their all on a weight too heavy to try alone.

4. Be consistent and be patient. Results can be seen in weeks, but don't rush. Accept there is no end to training and try to be one of the people who make it a 'life' choice. Plan how and when you are going to go training and argue with yourself to make sure you go. I have mini debates most mornings toward the end of a training week, but I have never once regretted going to the gym. Get that mindset. Don't make it too harsh at the start - you will just quit.

5. Train hard. Most people don't and most don't even know what it means. Learn to distinguish between injury pain and training pain. Pace yourself in a session but push yourself. You alone know if you are cheating or find something too easy - if that is the case fix it. Not every excersise needs to be stupidly aggressive and to failure - but pace your training so that your muscles know they have been in a fight so to speak. If I find I am leaving a session without having quite done enough I will simply add on a finisher - which comes back to point 1 above.

Anyhows, good luck.

JAK

SpAcEd OuT

Transform wrote:

DO NOT TOUCH THEIR CHEST WITH THE BAR!!!

I was told never to touch your chest with the bar when on the bench press because it can cause injury i usually keep it about 3 inches from my chest, am I doing wrong?

temp_boards

Jak wrote:

Anyhows, good luck.

JAK

Thanks Jak, thats great.

Boru.

Hi SpAcEd OuT,

There is a subtle difference between touching the bar off your chest and bouncing it. Injury often occurs in a bench press when the trainee lowers the bar without proper control and "bounces" the bar off the chest to gain momentum to push it back up.

Slowly lowering the bar and lightly touching it off your chest and holding it that position for a count of one, is safe and allows you to utilsise the fullest range of motion possible in a bench press with a barbell.

Obviously if using dumbells you can achieve an even greater range of motion.

That said....and I may get yelled at here because not everyone agrees with me...I'm not a huge advocate of full range movements. I like patials and even static presses on occasion.

As such I'm used to getting a lot of flack in the gym form so callled experts who've done a weekend training course telling me I've no clue on how to train.

This is important because it taught me that although I know a few things I don't know everything. I see guys and gals day in day out doin weird and different things in the gym, some look stupid, some look outright dangerous, but you never know why they're doing it and what their background is. Maybe you could learn something that could help you.

If i see someone doing wacky stuff in the gym I'll ask them why they're doing it and how it helps them. I'll try to understand the motivation and the movement.

Sometimes its dangerous bull and they don't have a clue, sometimes its something fantastic that when applied to my own techniques results in even greater development and understanding.

Just because they're stupid doesn't mean you can't learn from them (even if its just a different perspective) and just because they're smart doesn't mean they know you.