Orthodontics

Hellrazer

May aswell ask this.
Daughter is 7 and we`ve just been told that she needs extensive orthodontic treatment.
We assumed that the Health boards would cover it but now we`ve been told that they wont cover the work.

Anyone know how much something like this is going to cost??
Can I recover the costs through a med2 form??
Any recommendations for a good ordonthist in the Kildare area?
Thanks
Richie

HSo

Our Daughter is 16 and is starting treatment next month. The Health Boards will not cover unless it is a very serious case and even then there is a huge waiting list. So we have to go private which will cos in he region of three to four thousand Euro, and our daughters teeth only need minimal work. However, our Orthdontist has a payment scheme whereby you pay an initial deposit of about €500 and the rest in monthly installments. On top of that there may be the cost of some extractions that need to be done before Orthodonic treatment starts. The bottom line is that it is costly.

Josephine Mahon in Naas was recommended to me.

You can claim back on Med1.

heggie

before you do that see if the dental hospital will take the case

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Orthodontics is a speciality of dentistry. As such anyone who wishes to be called an orthodontist must have completed a 3 year masters in orthodontics after completing 5-6 years general dental training. As with all specialists, treatments can be expensive.

Orthodontics depending on how complicated it is can take between 1 - 6 years. and costs vary also between 1000 euro and 10000 euro.

If you daughter is 7 this suggests that a more simple intervention now while she is still growing could save time, complication and money later.

The health board have very limited resources as far a orthodontists go because they take so long to train and cost so much to train, as such children are categorized using an index or severity called the IOTN (index of orthodontic treatment need) the same index is used worldwide, only the most severe cases are eligible for treatment.

Treatment is tax deductible via a med 2 form.

I don't wish to recommend orthodontists myself however if anyone else wishes to feel free.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

heggie wrote:

before you do that see if the dental hospital will take the case

Good point...see here http://web1.dental.tcd.ie/

lomb

generally speaking except where there is a reverse overlap of a single or couple of individual upper and lower tooth/teeth and these are easily flicked out with bands, it isnt scientifically proven that doing orthodontics at 7 has any benefit.(this is called interceptive orthodontics)
i would tend to be sceptical of anyone who recommends orthodontics at this age due to the number of variables involved. at the minimum age of 10, and usually 12 is when we usually do it.
dont worry too much about it, teeth look very weird at this age and thats normal with the mix of primary and secondary teeth:)

edit:/ please note opinions do vary, but there is so much growth and variables at 7 no one imho can predict if your child will have a properly interdigitated dentition. nothing should stop u seeking a professional opinion and u should definately obtain an assessment.

Lostinspace

The VHI have a new dental plan out called SMILE. Basically if your child is a VHI member it costs €52.50 for the child for the year. Think it's actually the same for non members. It covers Orthodontic treatment up to €1,000 in a lifetime. There are a few t&c's though. The child must be between 8 and 18 and must be on the policy 18 months before they can claim any benefit. But it will save you a lot of money in the long term. It will also cover them in full for cleanings and exams(no waiting period) and will cover them at 70% for fillings, sealants, space maintainers, crowns, bridges, root canal treatment, etc....(3 mnth w/p for 70% cover). Same for adults, it's just adults can't avail of the orthodontic benefits. Still though, 52.50 a yr for two years and then your child can avail of the E1,000 benefit for orthodontic treatment. €109 for an adult

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Don't know so much about Dencare insurance with the VHI here is the list of benefits
http://www.vhi.ie/pdf/products/dentalrules.pdf
There appear to be many obvious limitations and the criteria are put in very technical language that may mean you might not realise that something is not covered, but still it better than nothing. 1000 euro lifetime for children from 8 - 19 for orthodontics? Most except the most minor orthodontics would cost well above that. All that said it does take some of the sting out of treatment costs

Kinetic^

I'm 22, I got my braces in April 2005, cost me €4800 and I've to have them on for 2 years, only 14 more months till I look like this >

ravenhead

I'm in the middlle of treatment now & it's costing me €2700, & that's for top of the line new braces in the country from the states. don't believe all the horror stories that you hear about the costs. Remember you're entitled to send off your MED2 form which will get you alot of your money back

ravenhead

I've been thinking about your post, who told you that the work wouldn't be covered by the health board? You should check this out because if your child is under 16(which she is) & still at school(which she is) then she can go on a waiting list for treatment?????

btkm8unsl0w5r4

ravenhead wrote:

I've been thinking about your post, who told you that the work wouldn't be covered by the health board? You should check this out because if your child is under 16(which she is) & still at school(which she is) then she can go on a waiting list for treatment?????

I am afraid thats not really true. All children (in public schools only) under 16 are entitled to free dental treatment by the health board dental service. This covers fillings, extractions, sealants and emergency treatment (general stuff only). Orthodontics is not covered under this scheme. The health board orthodontic service takes referals from dentists and health board dental surgeons if they see a need for orthodontic treatment. The child then gets an assesment in a health board orthodontic unit like the one in st. James hospital. Using set criteria they decide if the malocclusion (how bad the tooth look and how bad the bit is) is bad enough for treatment.

Some very bad looking smiles are not considered "bad" by these criteria. If you are refused for treatment your only choice is to pay privatly for orthodontics. Unfortunatly while a crooked tooth has social and dental implications, the resources are not in place to treat every child. For example celft palate patients are automatically accepted while mild crowning of you front teeth may no be. If your child does not meet the criteria they will go on no waiting list. Even if they are eligable in some areas the waiting list for the milder cases can be extreemly long. Not a great situation:mad: .

Kinetic^

Danica Broad Gerbil wrote:

I am afraid thats not really true. All children (in public schools only) under 16 are entitled to free dental treatment by the health board dental service. This covers fillings, extractions, sealants and emergency treatment (general stuff only). Orthodontics is not covered under this scheme. The health board orthodontic service takes referals from dentists and health board dental surgeons if they see a need for orthodontic treatment. The child then gets an assesment in a health board orthodontic unit like the one in st. James hospital. Using set criteria they decide if the malocclusion (how bad the tooth look and how bad the bit is) is bad enough for treatment.

Some very bad looking smiles are not considered "bad" by these criteria. If you are refused for treatment your only choice is to pay privatly for orthodontics. Unfortunatly while a crooked tooth has social and dental implications, the resources are not in place to treat every child. For example celft palate patients are automatically accepted while mild crowning of you front teeth may no be. If your child does not meet the criteria they will go on no waiting list. Even if they are eligable in some areas the waiting list for the milder cases can be extreemly long. Not a great situation:mad: .

This is true, I was assesed about 10 years ago and they said I was a borderline case, so they asked me did I want them.

Obivously being a dumb kid I said no, and I'm out of pocket €5k now :rolleyes:

cuckoo

Danica Broad Gerbil wrote:

I am afraid thats not really true. All children (in public schools only) under 16 are entitled to free dental treatment by the health board dental service. This covers fillings, extractions, sealants and emergency treatment (general stuff only). Orthodontics is not covered under this scheme. The health board orthodontic service takes referals from dentists and health board dental surgeons if they see a need for orthodontic treatment. The child then gets an assesment in a health board orthodontic unit like the one in st. James hospital. Using set criteria they decide if the malocclusion (how bad the tooth look and how bad the bit is) is bad enough for treatment.

Some very bad looking smiles are not considered "bad" by these criteria. If you are refused for treatment your only choice is to pay privatly for orthodontics. Unfortunatly while a crooked tooth has social and dental implications, the resources are not in place to treat every child. For example celft palate patients are automatically accepted while mild crowning of you front teeth may no be. If your child does not meet the criteria they will go on no waiting list. Even if they are eligable in some areas the waiting list for the milder cases can be extreemly long. Not a great situation:mad: .

I know they're trying to improve the situation, but it'll take time and a lot of investment. I was assessed at about 13, told that there was a definite need and put on the waiting list. At 14 my nice parents paid for the treatment to be done privately, and i had braces, surgery - the works (my poor teeth were in a dire state). At 23 i got the letter from the health board saying i'd reached the top of the list.

OFDM

ravenhead wrote:

I'm in the middlle of treatment now & it's costing me €2700, & that's for top of the line new braces in the country from the states. don't believe all the horror stories that you hear about the costs. Remember you're entitled to send off your MED2 form which will get you alot of your money back

Are the fancy ones that are clear or the ones that are only visible on the back of the teeth?

fightin irish

Hellrazer wrote:

May aswell ask this.
Daughter is 7 and we`ve just been told that she needs extensive orthodontic treatment.
We assumed that the Health boards would cover it but now we`ve been told that they wont cover the work.

Anyone know how much something like this is going to cost??
Can I recover the costs through a med2 form??
Any recommendations for a good ordonthist in the Kildare area?
Thanks
Richie

Richie how could you forget about my dearest wife. Give me a call and ill sort it for ya.

Aard

Braces at seven?
I've hear stories of people getting braces, their teeth becoming perfect, then when they hit eighteen-ish and the brace is off, the wisdom teeth sprout and throw a spanner in the works, causing more complications.

Just something to think about.

Cheftw

I was on the free dental treatment for two years with steadily worsening teeth. When they finally decided to do something it was to remove most of my teeth and give me eadgear - I talked to a dentist about it and he said it was insanity. So now I pay quite a bit more than was previouslt mentioned in the thread for what I shoud be getting for nothing. Orthodontics is a black hole!

LMaria

If you feel that there is a problem with your childs teeth and you want to try to go down the public route you must bring the child to the public health centre in your area during the emergency hours.You will need to express great concern in order for the dentist to sign a referral letter for orthodontic assessment.As it turned out the dentist reluctantly referred my child .Through the orthodontic assessment it emerged in the x ray that she is in the grade 5 IOTN( impacted tooth) category. So she is awaiting treatment at the moment.Realistically the wait is 1 and a half years.She is twelve so we can wait and see what happens.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Holy thread resurrection Batman. Last post was 2006.

Oral Surgeon

LMaria wrote: »

If you feel that there is a problem with your childs teeth and you want to try to go down the public route you must bring the child to the public health centre in your area during the emergency hours.You will need to express great concern in order for the dentist to sign a referral letter for orthodontic assessment.As it turned out the dentist reluctantly referred my child .Through the orthodontic assessment it emerged in the x ray that she is in the grade 5 IOTN( impacted tooth) category. So she is awaiting treatment at the moment.Realistically the wait is 1 and a half years.She is twelve so we can wait and see what happens.

Great, the op's child is now 13 so could still avail of this

maithancailin

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Great, the op's child is now 13 so could still avail of this

my 12 year old has just been to Orthdontist privately for a consultation and we have been told he need to have a Rapid Maxillary Expander fitted for 3 months before he can have braces fitted, as the upper palate is smaller than the bottom one and the jaw is swaying to the left as a result. Should the HSE dentist not have spotted this when they were assessing him for braces,?? We are looking at a price of €5000 for braces & expander.

Anniemac1967

You can get orthodontic treatment in Enniskillen paid for by the HSE get onto **mod edit against forum rules***

davo10

Anniemac1967 wrote: »

You can get orthodontic treatment in Enniskillen paid for by the HSE get onto enniskillenbraces.com

Only if approved by the HSE. I saw that ad on a newspaper recently and I asked a friend who works in the HSE if it is true, he said it was the first he had heard of it and he is one of the people you makes decisions on the suitability of each child in his area.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

If the HSE are using my tax money to pay for other peoples children to have braces in another country (where no tax will be paid to the irish system, no material sourced from Irish suppliers, and few if any irish people employed) when there is tons of private orthodontists working, employing and paying tax in ireland who are willing and able to do the job, I would be very cross.

Anniemac67

Ah come on Ian. You do have vested interests ! These are poor creathurs who can't afford private and have to wait 4 years for orthodontic treatment. Costs the tax payer about half the HSE cost per case

davo10

Anniemac67 wrote: »

Ah come on Ian. You do have vested interests ! These are poor creathurs who can't afford private and have to wait 4 years for orthodontic treatment. Costs the tax payer about half the HSE cost per case

Do the HSE pay you directly or has the patient to apply for reimbursement?

tuisginideach

Eldest son had orthodontic work (braces top and bottom) 11 - 13 or so - €4600 if I remember righly. Not 'bad' enough for healthboard.

Now getting wisdom teeth and looks like he may now need an extraction for space reasons - maybe I could have saved myself €4600!

Edited: I have just seen AArd's post up above (from 2006) - that is exactly what has happened in our case.

SM35

The HSE has recently put orthodontic services out to tender for specialist orthodontists to treat HSE patients in private practice. Given that some patients from the RoI attend practices in NI for care due to geographic reasons, I would expect that some NI specialists may have tendered for the contract?

Anniemac67

Contact the HSE crossborder office in Kilkenny for proper advice . It costs €1,500 you pay upfront in the north clinic then they in the HSE reimburse you in two weeks. They have one or two safeguards to prevent misuse

Anniemac67

SM35 wrote: »

The HSE has recently put orthodontic services out to tender for specialist orthodontists to treat HSE patients in private practice. Given that some patients from the RoI attend practices in NI for care due to geographic reasons, I would expect that some NI specialists may have tendered for the contract?

That tender was for patients waiting more than 4 years, this scheme suits people going onto the waiting list. It only suits border people in view of the travel. Understandably the HSE won't want its resources spent in the UK, but it is legally set that they have to. I have heard of surgery waiting list patients in Belfast availing this travelling for surgery to Dublin.

davo10

Anniemac67 wrote: »

Contact the HSE crossborder office in Kilkenny for proper advice . It costs €1,500 you pay upfront in the north clinic then they in the HSE reimburse you in two weeks. They have one or two safeguards to prevent misuse

Isn't the child assessed in the same way as would be done by the HSE, graded and policies regarding eligibility applied?

What happens if the parent pays you and the child's application is then rejected based on HSE assessment criteria, do you refund the money as you are offering "free treatment" for children not treated by HSE?

SM35

I would say the HSE couldn't care less whether their (our) resources are spent in the UK, once patients are seen IMHO

davo10

SM35 wrote: »

I would say the HSE couldn't care less whether their (our) resources are spent in the UK, once patients are seen IMHO

I'd have no problem with this at all, it's awful to see kids coming in who have been refused treatment by HSE and who can't afford to have it privately. I suppose it stands to reason why the HSE haven't made this avenue widely known.

Anniemac67

maithancailin wrote: »

my 12 year old has just been to Orthdontist privately for a consultation and we have been told he need to have a Rapid Maxillary Expander fitted for 3 months before he can have braces fitted, as the upper palate is smaller than the bottom one and the jaw is swaying to the left as a result. Should the HSE dentist not have spotted this when they were assessing him for braces,?? We are looking at a price of €5000 for braces & expander.

davo10 wrote: »

Do the HSE pay you directly or has the patient to apply for reimbursement?

Ortho treatment plus expander in the north is only €1500 . You should be able to get this refunded by the HSE office in Kilkenny. There are 17,000 children in the south on waiting lists who can avail of this. Hope Brexit does not spoil things.

Anniemac67

davo10 wrote: »

Isn't the child assessed in the same way as would be done by the HSE, graded and policies regarding eligibility applied?

What happens if the parent pays you and the child's application is then rejected based on HSE assessment criteria, do you refund the money as you are offering "free treatment" for children not treated by HSE?

You are best advised to visit the clinic pay nothing initially send the forms to HSE Kilkenny office for prior approval before starting. Even if you don t meet the criteria once you have a referral from HSE dentist to the HSE orthodontics department you will still secure approval. It is loophole that patients who would not normally be eligible can get funded, and also this is no use to you if you have to drive from Dingle.

davo10

Anniemac67 wrote: »

Ortho treatment plus expander in the north is only €1500 . You should be able to get this refunded by the HSE office in Kilkenny. There are 17,000 children in the south on waiting lists who can avail of this. Hope Brexit does not spoil things.

Anniemac, I don't know anything about this as I have a private clinic and no dealings at all with HSE, but it always concerns me when people say you SHOULD be entitled to a refund, after you have spent the money expecting it to be refunded, are there any guarantees?

Anniemac67

LMaria wrote: »

If you feel that there is a problem with your childs teeth and you want to try to go down the public route you must bring the child to the public health centre in your area during the emergency hours.You will need to express great concern in order for the dentist to sign a referral letter for orthodontic assessment.As it turned out the dentist reluctantly referred my child .Through the orthodontic assessment it emerged in the x ray that she is in the grade 5 IOTN( impacted tooth) category. So she is awaiting treatment at the moment.Realistically the wait is 1 and a half years.She is twelve so we can wait and see what happens.

No waiting list for orthodontics in the north. Cost you €1500 but you can get this refunded by the HSE cross border directive office in Kilkenny

Anniemac67

davo10 wrote: »

Anniemac, I don't know anything about this as I have a private clinic and no dealings at all with HSE, but it always concerns me when people say you SHOULD be entitled to a refund, after you have spent the money expecting it to be refunded, are there any guarantees?[/

Get seen by HSE dentist and get referral letter to HSE orthodontics dept. Bring this letter to a consultation with orthodontist in the north. Get them to fill in the forms for the HSE and then seek prior approval. Then start braces and pay €1500, which HSE will definitely repay within a fortnight. If you do not secure prior approval you can attend as a private patient but it only costs €1500 and tax back

Anniemac67

maithancailin wrote: »

my 12 year old has just been to Orthdontist privately for a consultation and we have been told he need to have a Rapid Maxillary Expander fitted for 3 months before he can have braces fitted, as the upper palate is smaller than the bottom one and the jaw is swaying to the left as a result. Should the HSE dentist not have spotted this when they were assessing him for braces,?? We are looking at a price of €5000 for braces & expander.

Five thousand for hyrax rapid maxillary expansion and fixed braces?looks like you are paying off a holiday villa for the staff as part of that cost. Get a second opinion with a qualified orthodontist on orthodontics.ie. Costs €1500 in the north normally.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Anniemac67 wrote: »

Five thousand for hyrax rapid maxillary expansion and fixed braces?looks like you are paying off a holiday villa for the staff as part of that cost. Get a second opinion with a qualified orthodontist on orthodontics.ie. Costs €1500 in the north normally.

Please state what you association with the clinic is, also why you user name has changed. Familiarise yourself with the forum rules

davo10

Anniemac67 wrote: »

Five thousand for hyrax rapid maxillary expansion and fixed braces?looks like you are paying off a holiday villa for the staff as part of that cost. Get a second opinion with a qualified orthodontist on orthodontics.ie. Costs €1500 in the north normally.

I think Jeeves would be interested in this statement considering he sends out requests for referrals to Southern Clinics. I know I wouldn't want one of my staff posting this, especially as you have no knowledge of this poster's case nor its complexity.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I dont like where this is going, apart from the obvious self promotion of that user. Posting a fixed price for all cases regardless of complexity and making as yet unsubstantiated claims about treatment purchase schemes.

Locking thread until I get a reassuring PM. Its a very old thread and need no resurection anyway. A new thread would be better.